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> Julep, Do you know who he is?
Tous crins
post Mar 20 2006, 02:34 AM
Post #31


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Hi Georgia,

You need to buy ARABIANA. There are pictures of ALL those ancetors in there.
BINIS, ISLAM, BINNI, HALLANY MISTANNY, BINT GULASTRA. And articles discussing their pedigree and characteristics!!!
I paid 30$ I think and I saw it is still available.

Christine
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Georgia
post Mar 20 2006, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE (Tous crins @ Mar 20 2006, 03:34 AM)
Hi Georgia,

You need to buy ARABIANA. There are pictures of ALL those ancetors in there.
BINIS, ISLAM,  BINNI, HALLANY MISTANNY, BINT GULASTRA. And articles discussing their pedigree and characteristics!!!
I paid 30$ I think and I saw it is still available.

Christine
*



Thanks Christine,
I didn't even know there was a book out there. Will go check out
ebay or something and see if I can find.. Thanks again Georgia
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MAXHOPEMIME
post Mar 20 2006, 02:58 AM
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Georgia,

I just LOVE that boy of Yours! Give him a hug and a carrot from me.

OH the cruel twist of time and circumstance. where are my Gulastra bred dream horses today?

Found in lots of the good to great domestic bred performence horses of today.
And sadly very few SEs.

Love that old gentleman of yours he's a treasure!

biggrin.gif Chris
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Guest_Guest_LMG_*_*
post Mar 20 2006, 03:16 AM
Post #34





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Joja:

I can't read that pedigree, probably has something to do with the colors. Can you do it again.

LMG
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Guest_Guest_LMG_*_*
post Mar 20 2006, 03:39 AM
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I don't think Hallany Mistanny could be considered anything but Egyptian with *Zarife as his sire and *Roda as his dam. But, Gulastra certainly could be questioned. *Aziza is his dam, and she definitely is Egyptian, but what do we do with his sire, *Astraled.

If we say *Astraled was not Egyptian, was never there and never bred any horses there, what does that do to all the SE's today who have multiple lines to *Astraled? I'm sure these has been talked about till everyone is blue in the face.
But since the Pyramid Society, made up their own criteria for what is and is not SE, and they can do so, they had to stretch the definition to encompass Gulastra or throw *Astraled out all together.

IMO, there may several horses who could be thrown out of the definition, but to toss *Astraled out of the definition of that which is SE, may result in very few contemporary horses which could be defined as SE.

Classifications which are based upon scientific investigation are one thing, breeding groups with man-made criteria are another, and as they are man made, man can include and man can exclude.

LMG
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Georgia
post Mar 20 2006, 03:40 AM
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QUOTE (Guest_LMG_* @ Mar 20 2006, 04:16 AM)
Joja:

I can't read that pedigree, probably has something to do with the colors.  Can you do it again.

LMG
*


I will try and find the original.. I posted one that had been resized, will try the larger version if I can find.. I'm not very good at this stuff.

joja (aka Georgia)
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Georgia
post Mar 20 2006, 04:14 AM
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Very interesting Lorriee,
I can remember specifically the person involved with my stallion, saying Gulastra was not SE and I do remember writing Pyrimid Soc at the time, I was told that his dam side was not SE, but never what part was not SE or that any was. I wish I still had that letter, would be very interesting to review in this thread.

Thanks Chris on your kind remarks.. there aren't many like him and I have enjoyed having him in my life the past 27 of his 28 years.

Trying pedigree again.. maybe will be larger.

Georgia
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Guest_Guest_LMG_*_*
post Mar 20 2006, 04:55 AM
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I'm in error re the dam of Gulastra, *Aziza is the dam of Julep and Gulnare is the dam of Gulastra, I've Julep on the brain. It would be similarly difficult to not find Gulnare within the definition of the Pyramid's Society of SE.

Gulnare's sire is *Rodan, he by Harb and out of *Rose of Sharon and her dam is *Ghazala, she by Ibn Sherara and out of Bint Helwa. Harb was by Mesaoud and out of Bint Helwa who was by Aziz (RAS) and out of Helwa (Egypt)

*Rose of Sharon is is the dam of Ridaa, and Ridaa the dam of Rustem, found over and over in SE blood lines.

*Ghazala AHA 211 also came directly to the US, but is also found over and over in SE pedigrees .

So, IMO, straight egyptian horses owe as much to the Blunt's breeding of arabian horses as to breeding stock which arose solely in Egypt, especially the horses which were imported in the 1950's through out the 1960's and 1970's.

But, before some get hysterical, I want to again state, that a breeding pool of horses can be designated by criteria which is set by the one or more people who wish to limit the horses in the pool.

LMG
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Tous crins
post Mar 20 2006, 06:21 AM
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Here is one more page - p36 from ARABIANA
not sure if this will be clear enough

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Tous crins
post Mar 20 2006, 06:23 AM
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This is the text in the middle of p 36

"ANCESTORS OF GULASTRA

Pictured here are the only likenesses we have of the ancestors of famous GUL-ASTRA and we start with his dam, GULNARE, a 3/4 Egyptian and 1/4 Blunt. Below her is a very weak picture of the lovely *GHAZALA, a straight Egyptian by Ibn Sherara II x Bint Helwa. Then comes Gulnare’s sire, *Rodan
by Harb x * Rose of Sharon with the latter following, she being a straight Blunt by Hadban x Rodania. Then comes HADBAN (Rabdan XTarfa) a sire of lengthy necks.
On the opposite side we have the sire of Gulastra, the famous *Astraled, imported by F. Lothrop Ames in 1909, a Blue List with 1/4 Mu’niqi blood. For those who follow the “Blue Catalogue” all the ancestors of Gulastra are either Blue List or BLUE STAR. ROSE OF SHARON and RODANIA are Blue Star.
Below *Astraled is the equally as famous MESAOUD, a straight Egyptian and a Blue Star and former premier stallion at Crabbet.
Then comes the dam of *Astraled, the lovely QUEEN OF SHEBA, a Blunt Blue List that was half Mu’niqi and then comes HELWA followed by her daughter, BINT HELWA an Egyptian Blue Star. The picture was taken several years after her accident and does not depict her true conformation.
The photo in the center bottom Is a painting, as is evident, of the great progenitor ZOBEYNI You will find that very many of the ancestors of Gulastra trace back to him!"
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Tous crins
post Mar 20 2006, 06:52 AM
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PART OF P37 AND 38

"

For those that are not familiar with GULASTRA’s pedigree we give, herewith, that of his sire and his dam for easy reference
*ASTRALED, sire of GULASTRA, was bred at Crabbet Arabian Stud in England and imported into the United States by F. Lothrop Ames of Boston in 1909 but not before he had created a tremendous impact across the Atlantic in that country’s pedi-grees. From there the influence extends to practically all the Arabian horse breeding nations of the world. More often than not his name is repeated in multiples as it hops, skips and jumps throughout the world, and a case in point is Egypt where *ASTRALED Sons have been doubled up in the pedigrees of some of their best horses.
The Blunts of Crabbet must have held him in high esteem as they used him for ‘the birdie’ in inbreeding and intense line breeding, having bred his own sires’ daughters, and even then ‘doubled’ In other parts of the pedigree. Of ôourse *ASTRALED~s sire MES-AOUD himself, was his own ‘birdie’ in many cases, but in the case of both fore and aft they have proved successful as the lines have bred on as is evidenced throughout the world in some truly magnificent individuals.

Before leaving Crabbet in England ASTRALED sired seventeen foals. Probably the most influential was SOTAMM, who dominates the line in Egyptian pedigrees and this was so, also, for his son, RUSTEM. However, in England, SOTAMM sired NAUFAL who got RIFFAL, the sire of ORAN. It is interesting that ORAN shows two crosses to MESAOUD and three to *ASTRALED in the fourth generation. ORAN was amongst the best of Lady Wentworth’s (daughter of the Blunts) stallions at Crabbet.
In America *SILVER VANITY, ROYAL DIA-MOND and the great National Champion perfor-mance horse, ORAN VAN CRABBET, was by him as well as a grandson, *ROYAL CONSTELLATION, his sire being GRAND ROYAL (England). There are other sire lines to ASTRALED in England, but too lengthy to go into here.
In America ASTRALED sired two foals in the east (one mare and a horse that was gelded,) in 1913 and 1915 respectively and then went west where he was in Oregon and Idaho until 1923 when W. R. Brown brought him to Maynesboro. He sired no purebred foals during this time. There he got three foals, the last being GULASTRA, as he died apparently that year. Often I have wondered If fate had not taken a hand and ASTRALED could have bred some of the Brown mares (most of which were very good for that day). For a few years what this influence would have been to the American Arabian horse. Monumental I would guess — if he did any-where near as well as he did in England and Egypt (here through his sons).

Before leaving ASTRALED I would like to make a last comment. *ASTRALED was said to be the best stallion In America at the time of his importation. How about after that time? A study of all available pictures show him to be a very clean made horse with a good reachy neck with a light throat latch and the head set on very well. It is hard to define his head from the pictures I have seen but it looks to be clean, breedy and ARABIAN! His body and quarters look like quality with an excellent top line even at the age of twenty-two. He showed good withers and a fine croup. To me *ASTRALED looked like a horseman’s horse and that Is more than one can say for some of the later importations. A point I failed to mention Is that his legs look clean and unblemished at the age of twenty-two and they were straight — a failing of many horses of that day.

The sire of *ASTRALED, MESAOUD, has been probably the most cussed and discussed horse in Arabian circles so there is not too much purpose for going into his story too deeply. However, briefly and for the benefit of new Arabian fans, we will give him a short run down. He was bred by All Pasha Sharif of Egypt and is a great-grandson of the forever world’s famous ZOBEYNI that was bred in Arabia and imported into Egypt by the ruling Pasha Abbas I. Many who extol the virtues of certain horses will count lines to MESAOUD. One should try counting these lines to ZOBEYNI! In some cases it will run into the hundreds and possibly in the near future one will be’ counting into the thousands. I have quit counting on some of my horses as it runs past where I know how to count. Anyway the Blunts purchased MESAOUD and subsequently brought him to their stud in England where he became a dominant factor in Crabbet pedigrees, which, of course, made its way around the world. He was sold to Russia at what is said to be a fabulous price.

QUEEN OF SHEBA, the great and famous dam of *ASTRALED, became one of the most important mares at Crabbet and one of the best contributers to the male line of MESAOUD. She also did well with AZREK too, as the result of this was AHMAR. Interesting is that both ASTRALED and AHMAR did create trotting lines of excellence which is much in evidence in the United States. In the case of the former this trait is carried on through GULASTRA. ASFURA, full sister to AHMAR, did her part in this respect too.
Lady Anne Blunt describes the QUEEN thusly after seeing her in the Arabian desert: “She is a dark bay with four white socks, star and snip, standing well over fifteen hands. Her head, the first point an Arab looks to, is a good one though I’ve seen finer and perfectly set on, and the mitbah or join of the head and neck would give distinction to any profile. Her neck is light and well arched, the withers high and shoulders well sloped, and the quarters so fine and powerful that it is impossible that she be anything but a very fast mare. Her length of limb above the hock is remarkable as is that of her pastern. She carries her tail high as all well-bred Arabs do, and there is a neatness and finish about every movement which reminds one of a fawn or gazelle. We all agreed that she is incomparably superior to anything we have seen here or elsewhere and would be worth a king’s ransom if kings were still worth ransoming”. Lady Wentworth, in speaking of the QUEEN, said: “to have had unusually good action.” This is of interest to me and we will get into it later when we get to GULASTRA and the trot.
Be as it may the QUEEN OF SHEBA was a power-ful influence in the Arabians of America through GULASTRA and especially when multiplied through multiple lines to him and from other sources.
Welt, there you have a short run-down on “from the best blood that produces better than himself” where it concerns the sire line of GULASTRA. Much time was spent in reference to *ASTRALED but I think he deserves it as there is not much doubt but that he was in fact one of the best sons of MES-AOUD — with the help of the QUEEN, of course!
The next installment will go into “best blood” where it concerns GULASTRA’s dam line, and then on to GULASTRA himself.
Please note that no reference to family strains, et cetera, has been made as I feel that it really is of little consequence in this day and age and would only tend to confuse the Arabian fans in general. However, in some books such as those written by Carl Raswan and others, there is much along these lines for those that are interested. If any, there would be rare cases where horses were bred in a certain family strain because as far as strains go they are pretty much ‘chop suey’ now."
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post Mar 20 2006, 01:54 PM
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Thank you Christine. I'm sure there are many who find this information about *Astraled and his descendants very ilnteresting and enlightening.

LMG
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Clothilde
post Mar 20 2006, 02:55 PM
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Hi all,
Hey Chris, you too like the babsons/browns??!
do you know the south springs arabians website, there are interesting horses too:
SS Arabians

Hope we could have more pics of babson/brown horses, i am looking for them, feel free to contact me if you have some!

have a great day
Clo
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Tous crins
post Mar 20 2006, 04:08 PM
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Well, I flipped through that book a few month ago when visiting friends and saw all those pictures and articles. My horses have quite a lot of Gulastra on the non-egyptian part of their pedigree.
My mare is the one who gave me "arabitis" and I study anything related to her. I am learning. Very happy with this book. There are also articles on Morafic, the horses of Valerie Noli Marais in S Africa, the Bahreini horses - beautiful individuals.
Articles on Hallany Mistanni etc.

I received a tape from Sheila Harmon where Doyle horses (Gulastra) are mixed with Prtizlaff etc and I really like the powerful movement and rear-end.
I need to see more to see if those are exceptions or not.

I like to read from all sources and see with my own eyes.

Until a few weeks ago, Gulastra was just a name for me and a few pictures.

Christine
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Georgia
post Mar 21 2006, 02:01 AM
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OK, I'm really getting into ready this thread since it's so close to home.

My boy Aarafic "Moses" I know his sire Ibn Morafic is SE.
His dam "Ajoi" is by Binis and out of Hallanys Tande
Binis is by Islam (Gulastra x Nafud) out of Binni (Gulastra x Habiba) tf Bint Helwa
so we know Gulastra is SE
Nafud is by (Nejal x Hazna) tf Bint Helwa
Nejal is by Rehal x Larkspur
I'm thinking the questionable blood?? is from Larkspur (Abu Zeyd x Onrust)
I think I read something at one time.. help me out on this one... but not sure.
Binni's dam Habiba also crosses to Larkspur as Habiba dam is Nafud by Bazleyd

So we have Binis, pure in the strain at least 2 generation via Bint Helwa (sire and dam)
and all 4 grandparents tf Bint Helwa.
Moses granddam Hallanys Tande is by Halllany Mistanny, which we know is SE
out of Bint Gulastra (Gulastra x Habiba) tf Bint Helwa
*** and they say we inbred today!!!!!!*****

Is Bazleyd 1928 (Abu Zeyd x Bazrah) found in SE pedigrees?
if so that leaves Nafud that I'd love to know her history. If not, then that leaves
Bazleyd and Nafud I'd love to know more about.

Ok, I still get weak in the knees looking at these lines and he's out in my backyard. ha! tongue.gif

Thanks for any information or thoughts.. I think I have everything correct if you can follow and not go cross-eyed. blink.gif

Georgia
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