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> Ansata Bint Bukra
Marilyn Lang
post Aug 9 2004, 04:48 AM
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Kelly,

Your comments are so ludicrous, that I thought long and hard about even posting a reply. Especially, after so many well established and known breeders have posted in such a positive manner, both about Halim El Mansour and El Halimaar. I will try to be dignified in my resonse.

First, Bint Halim's rear legs are not camped out in the least. They are perfectly balanced and certainly not criss-crossed, like you or someone in your following accused Halim El Mansour of in one of the earlier anonymous post. This was my reason for posting a photo of one of Halim's babies. Bint Halim has incredible balance, conformation and type. Many prominent breeders, veterinarians, trainers and others have encouraged me to put her in the show ring. I gave it some serious thought but decided that she was more important at home. By the way Kelly, I don't need you or anyone else to give me an objective opinion. My opinion is the only opinion that counts, since it is my love, time, money and labor that goes into the horses. I do show my horses and successfully I might add. The show ring can be an important part of breeding good horses but not always. It can also be very detrimental and especially with straight Egyptian Arabians. That is another entirely different thread.

How would you know how many SOFI members are in attendance at the EE over the years? Did you do a head count? For your information, Walter Schimanski was on the Board of Directors for the Pyramid Society and as you well know, SOFI is a branching off of sorts from SOF. There may be other current or past Pyramid Society board members who are members of SOFI that I am not aware of but so what? What is your message because I don't get it.

Last but not least, is your derogatory remarks about Caryn Rogosky. You know without a doubt that Halim El Mansour was never "rescued" by Caryn. She never posted any such comment. Please know that these comments are highly inflammatory and Caryn and Halim El Mansour deserve a posted apology from yourself on this forum. My guess is that is will not be forthcoming.

My Mother always taught me that if you could not say something nice about someone or something, then just don't say anything at all. Believe me, I have repeated that a hundred times this afternoon after reading your post.

Marilyn Lang
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Guest_Caryn Rogosky_*
post Aug 9 2004, 02:01 PM
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Hi Everyone,
This thread was started to discuss *Ansata Bint Bukra, and I'd like to bring it full circle by adding something I meant to mention in an earlier post. For those who complain about lengthy, less than succinct posts --- you might want to skip this one.

Some of us in a particular age bracket (commonly referred to as "Baby Boomers") are suddenly finding ourselves in the "Sandwich" Generation. This a relatively new phenomena created by the miracles of medical science which are continually extending longevity. We of the Sandwich Generation are now in a life cycle where, if we have been so very blessed, find that we have elderly parents, children and grandchildren...all at the same time, all needing our help and support. This comes at a time when we are still actively involved in our own careers, too young to retire and devote ourselves full time to tending to our family needs...and yet, full time attention is truly what is needed of us. We are constantly trying to juggle all of these very important demands, and sometimes keeping all those balls in the air at once is more than exhausting -- and no matter how much we do we never feel that we've done enough. Those of you who haven't reached that point yet will understand someday, those of you who have already reached that point know exactly what I'm talking about.

Anyway, about three years ago my husband and I entered the realm of "Sandwichdom". For us, it is a more glorious time than we could have imagined, emotionally and spiritually rewarding...a life epiphany of sorts, with one sad exception. We could not spread ourselves wide enough to tend to our family and business demands adequately, while properly devoting ourselves to a busy farm and our many cherished Arabian horses. We had to make decisions based on hard priorities, and that meant selling our beautiful farm and many of our cherished horses. We could only keep a few, and those we kept were: a Halim El Mansour son out of our *Fakher El Din daughter, Akira Zarif; A Halim El Mansour daughter out of our black *Ansata Ibn Halima granddaughter (G Mafada), an El Mon Moniet daughter out of our precious MFA Bint Maar Ree, and a sweet aging gelding which we bought as a yearling, and who my husband still rides nearly every day.

My husband and I have owned and bred some really incredible horses, whose bloodlines were rare and wonderful, whose beauty and grace inspired us and lifted us up when we needed it most, and whose presence in our lives changed us forever...for the better. Having to choose only 3 to carry on our program in the future was harder than I can possibly express. However, the three individuals that we kept combined most our foundation blood in the very best form. There is still one thing missing, however, an important element that until now has eluded me...the *Ansata Bint Bukra blood. When I have managed to bring together all of the wonderful ancestors now reflected in the three individuals we have retained for breeding with the inclusion of the precious *Ansata Bint Bukra blood, I will feel that I have completed my mission as a breeder, contributed the best my heart, soul and imagination could offer, and maybe then I can rest. Until I have reached my ultimate goal, I'll have to keep juggling the best I can, because the creative fire continues to burn and my inner artist won't let me walk away...not yet
Caryn.
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Guest_Tanner_*
post Aug 9 2004, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (Echo1 @ Aug 8 2004, 04:12 PM)
Bint Halim has a nice front end on her, but I think she is camped out in the hind legs. I don't see any flexion or striation in her hip to indicate she is 'stretched'.

Anyone who isn't legally blind can see that this filly's front legs are standing downhill from her hind end. Of course her hind legs are stretched somewhat behind her, if they weren't she would topple over! Sheeshh! It seems you didn't notice the beautiful curvations and strength and balance, or the huge expressive black eye, or the little tippy ears and high set up neck? Bint Halim is really a beauty and her legs are fine. How deep some will dig into the earth to find a morsel of of mud to sling desparately hoping to do a little damage. I will repeat what BobandEna said earlier, "Get a life!"
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Hoogie
post Aug 10 2004, 10:34 AM
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In defence of the filly, the only way to tell if a horse is camped out is if the cannon (below the hock) is perpendicular to the ground; i.e. the cannon must be straight up and down. If at this po9nt, the hind leg sits out further than the backside, the horse is camped out. In the photo, the filly's cannon is on an angle, so obviously she would stand behind when in this position - she is indeed 'stretched', and I can visualise that if she rocked back so that her cannon is straight, her cannon/hock would be pretty much directly under her backside, where it should be. Please refer to the following:

http://www.geocities.com/agecroft_79/mater...ials/ideals.htm
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Guest_Caryn Rogosky_*
post Aug 10 2004, 03:26 PM
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Hi Hoogie,
Just to confirm your very astute observations; I have seen FA Bint Halim in person. She has wonderful legs and is not camped out in the back at all. I studied her legs carefully, as soon as I was able to force my eyes away from her incredible face. I remember taking note particular of how correct she was in all ways, as I delicately dabbed the drool running in a little stream down from the corner of my mouth. smile.gif
Caryn
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HLM
post Aug 10 2004, 11:17 PM
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Well then, der Marilyn, how did you experience him under saddle? Did you find him balanced? Was he able to get that rearend under?
And what about the filly you mention, any details on her?

Thanks in advance
Hansi rolleyes.gif
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HLM
post Aug 10 2004, 11:24 PM
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Hi Hoogi

I wish these wonderful posters would reply to my new title post-
refering to how to recognize legs etc.etc."

this would be so wonderful if each one could give their comments
and we all could learn from it. We could start with that georgeous photo of "Loubna", the SE Champion mare in Germany this year.

folks, this is not bashing, this is education and learning more.
Will you all try please?

Hansi biggrin.gif
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Marilyn Lang
post Aug 11 2004, 08:34 PM
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Who are you referring to Hansi? FA Bint Halim is a mare and only a yearling when the photos posted on this thread were taken. Bint Halim is not broke to saddle but have no doubt she would be capable of most all disciplines. Unfortunately, we have one full time farm person caring for 20 head of horses. Sara isabsolutely wonderful but has her hands full just keeping all the stallions broke and ridden. Somehow, since the stallions have to spend more time cooped up than the mares, who are always out in the pastures, I think it is more important that the stallions be ridden. They also need and enjoy the challenge more than the mares. We do have a few mares broke but just no time to break them all. I would love for each and everyone of them to be under saddle if I could just find someone to work for the fun of it. Hard to find anyone to work, even for money.

If you were speaking of Halim El Mansour, our experience with him under saddle was excellent. Even with his advanced age, he has the most supple body, neck and movement. A slight touch to the reins and he is headed in what ever direction you indicate, without even a squeeze of the leg. He could turn his head in either direction and reach around all the way to his flank and touch with his nose - in a bridle. I am sure in his younger years he would have been a breath taking dressage horse. As I mentioned before, we no longer ride him because of the stiffness and arthritis in his back fetlock joints.

Hope this answers your inquiry.

Marilyn
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Marilyn Lang
post Aug 11 2004, 08:39 PM
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Thank you Tanner!!! Well said and point made. Sorry it has taken me a few days to respond. I wish I could get the frontal view photo uploaded as it so clearly shows both front legs and the front view of her hind legs. File is to large. Will try to decrease next week. Again thanks for the applause.

Marilyn Lang
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Guest_Amelie_*
post Aug 12 2004, 05:58 PM
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Hi folks,

I have been lucky enough to see Halim and Bint Halim in person, as well as many Halim babies at either Caryn's or Marylin's places. Thanks you both ! All of them were of absolut superior quality and Bint Halim is one of the most perfectly balanced mare I've ever seen and her legs are very clean. I must also confess that Halim's son, Shakir, owned and bred by Caryn, was really impossible to fault and his movement was simply breathtaking.

I wish both of you many more beautiful foals from this fabulous bloodline !
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Ralph
post Aug 12 2004, 07:32 PM
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Amelie:

I was very happy to see your message:

QUOTE
I must also confess that Halim's son, Shakir, owned and bred by Caryn, was really impossible to fault and his movement was simply breathtaking.


You were standing right next to me, another witness, to the just incredible and unbeliveable ways that Shahkir was moving.

Ralph
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Guest_CarynGuest_*
post Aug 12 2004, 07:52 PM
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Thanks so much Amelie and Ralph. I remember too, he was feeling good, wasn't he? That was more than two years ago, and now Shakhir has been bred for the first time just over the past few weeks. He is more beautiful than when you saw him last, quite tall, even more extreme in the head, and since he has crossed the threshold into "manhood" wink.gif he seems to have a little more fire under his skin, a glow of confidence about his air and a bit more snap to his walk. He seems to have made the transition quite happily. The cycle of life is a wonderous thing.

Caryn
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Ralph
post Aug 12 2004, 08:00 PM
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Hi Caryn smile.gif He is a magnificent horse and a superb combination of your foundation bloodlines: Halima, Moniet, Babson and Sirecho. However, as an Arabian Horse lover, you expect me to say that about Shahkir. I think the praises that you have heard about Shahkir from outside of the Arabian Horse community, that is the Reining, Dressage and Hunter people who have seen him is expecially noteworthy and very fulfilling. That is a phenomenal compliment to your abilities as a HORSEWOMAN and ARABIAN HORSE BREEDER.
Ralph
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Guest_CarynGuest_*
post Aug 12 2004, 08:18 PM
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Thank you again, Ralph. He is a joy under saddle, very athletic and very responsive...and most important of all, he is a true gentlemen at all times. He was Akira's last baby, but I'm hapy to say that Akira is still doing great, so very beautiful now in her mid twenties, and has been bred to WK Halim El Hadban (Apple Hill El Nisr X Bint Masarra). We will know very soon if she is in foal. I would so love for her to have one more baby, she pines for one.
Caryn
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Guest_Doris_*
post Aug 14 2004, 06:10 PM
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Mrs Heck asked if this grand old horse, Halim El Mansour, was tested under saddle. Nice question. Well, I sked myself why Mrs. Heck does not ask the same question in regard to The Egyptian Prince (reference "Prince Fa Moniet" thread)? In the Prince Fa Moniet discussion she said how wonderful a horse The Egyptian Prince was but The Prince was NEVER TESTED UNDER SADDLE. Period. He was ridden occasionaly but certainly never ever shown in performance. Isn't that funny? But of course, he was a son of MORAFIC and not of ANSATA IBN HALIMA... It's so seethrough.
Have all a very nice day and no hard feelings. biggrin.gif
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