Now, given that some are not registering their Arabians, and some are not breeding the mares they do have, and given the statistics regarding the average age of the producing Arabian mres, is there a formulae by which we can make a reasonable calculation as to the date when Arabians in the US will become extinct?
Joined: 7-August 04
Member No.: 1571
Why does this not surprise me? Hello out there in the Arabian breeding world? The reason registrations continue to decline is because the market place for Arabian horses has been on a downward spiral for the last ten years. I think the interesting statistic would be how many Arabian horse owners are breeding their mares? My guess would be less than 10%. The only viable market place for Arabian horses currently is the foreign market. My personal opinion is that all those who are in control of our parent organization need to have a reality check. The statistics in this thread are mind bogling.
To be quite honest, this thread makes me rather sick at my stomach.
Joined: 27-June 05
From: Paso Robles, CA
Member No.: 2551
It is depressing. I guess the upside is that in the South, people in long term care facilities can continue to breed horses. That cannot happen in California, because the elderly are not allowed to hang around in long term care facilities for too long, as they do need us for building material, such as in gigantic malls and freeway overpasses. At one time, as the rumor goes, it was the thing to bury us and then have a little party afterwards, but today, the land is too valuable just to let one's great aunt take up all that real estate.
So when the youngsters of 58 and 59 years of age, are gone, here in California, that will probably be the end of it - Arabian horse breeding - that is.
I think I should mention this in another one of my e-mails to the President of AHA.
Joined: 20-February 05
From: Saskatchewan, Canada
Member No.: 2242
Well, ladies, I am an RN and an currently working in a Long Term Care Facility. Maybe I should start a trend, open my OWN facility, combine it with my SE breeding facility, and invite all of you aging Americans here to the Canadian Prairies, where real estate is still almost affordable!
On a different note, I am pleased to say that my youngest daughter has just turned 23. Many years ago, she went with me to Thistlewood. Tom McNair took a great liking to her and took her under his wing. He let her handle *Sakr+++, he gave her riding lessons on Tammen. She helped the staff wash Ibn Morafic+++, Shamruk++ and Rofann. She exercised Gamal Al Arab+++, she fell in love with Ziba Jalisa (Later a National Champion Cutting Horse) when she was a youngster, and stood pining at her stall, BEGGING me to buy her, and on and on and on! My daughter was 10 or 11 at the time. Young enough to have a BALL with it all, and hopefully old enough to remember it till she is an OLD woman herself!
A few years later, she went to the EE. Saw El Gohara+/ win yet another performance pyramid, and proudly announce that WE had his brother! She fell in love with Imperial Baarez, admired Farid Nile Moon, and a host of others. She met Judy Forbis, and had some of her books autographed.
In short, she was THERE, and I hope the memory and the realization of what she was a small part of, stays with her forever. Her first Regional level showhorse was a Gleannloch bred stallion! Hopefully she will draw upon those memories when she decides what she is going to do with HER breeding program, and I hope that she, and thousands of others like her all over the world, will take up the torch and carry on, even if it is on a much smaller scale than all of us.
(And hopefully SHE will be looking after all of US in the Care Home!) LOL
Joined: 21-March 03
Member No.: 192
Good morning everybody
I get calls, e-mails with questions "what can we do to revieve, put things back on track, stop the bickering and make it a go again".
My answer is lets go back to basics. Lets look at the past what put the SE on the map originally. Here are some of the basics the breeders/owner made: (when I sayd "We" it refers to all):
1) We hardly ever body clipped or used any make-up other than a bit of baby oil around the nose. We never used any artificial means
2) We showed by and large barefoot in halter classes.
3) Halter horses went at the same show into mutiple performance classes showing the public the versility of the Arabian Horse.
4) We stuck together like glue, helped each other,took advice from each other and bred horses by natural service.
5) Most all breeder/owners showed the horses themselves at halter and under saddle. Some had trainers, who showed but the owners still went into the ring as well
6) We taught the young ones, gave open houses and seminars without charging a penny.
7) We created the Pyramid Society ,had it under solid unbiast leadership, promoting ALL Ses.
8) We started defeating some of the best Non-SEs on a pretty consistant basis, at halter and in just about all performance divisions.
9) combined, we had about 40-60 SES competing in the USA/Canada against thousands of Non_Ses.
10) We went into flat racing and some endurance racins and again made an impact with many wins.
11) We promoted and sold offspring into reliable horseman hands, meaning to carry on under Saddle and at halter.
12) And then we made a mistake of selling to people who took advantage of the success and turned all into a dollar bill producing affair. That's when it started falling apart.
Our only hope might be that the Pyramid Society promoted performance classes of all divisions, make its affordable to our small breeder/owners to enter (we all once were small breeders/owners) . show the public the qualities of the SE/Asil Arabian Horse, and give seminars easily understood, hand on works, no-nonense education. Have workshops to educate our young ones,etc. It is a deadly mistake in my opinion to alow cartells,created in the past few years exist and rise, which could extinct the SE Arabians as a "Horse" a "Doing horse" a" beautiful functional horse".
If the SEs combined climbed to international fame at the start with just so few horses,than a way can be found to do it again.Gleannloch Farms,Babson and many oldtimers promoted unselfishly, respected each other and did not chose by who is who, but by what a person can do, give and share, the latter not to just a selected few.
It breaks my heart to realize and see what has transpired, how horses are graded by who is who owns them, when many of the who is who have little knowledge of what constitutes a functional horse, never been on top of one and no interest to even remember how it all got started and why.
May be some of you have ideas, which can be adopted to turn this ship around, away from the close-up cliffs. Only by working together can we be able to do it. We all should be looking at other Arabian bloodlines to ascertain what the competition is doing, rather than cutting them down, or totally overlooking them. That is a dealy error. And thinking that all ours are the best, rather to think that it is the best which defeats the rest. That is only common sense for any product in this world.
So, what do you all think and say. And please no more attacks and bickering. It harms, it wont help.Lets be more realistic, please.
Joined: 18-June 03
Member No.: 548
How do these registration numbers compare against the registration numbers of other breeds? The Arabian breed is not the only horse breed sufferring a decline in registration? I read in Equus magazine that even the American Paint Horse, which had been enjoying double digit growth percentages, even suffered a decline. All equine activities compete for the disposable income of people looking for a recreational activity. Some people choose boats, some people choose bicycling and some people choose iPods. With the people who decide to pursue horses as a recreational outlet, I find it hard to believe that the wide choice of horse breeds, all competing for that person, will not create an effect similar to like like, voting in an election...some people say that the run for USA President between Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani will be a very close race, with Clinton emerging the victor. However, if NYC mayor, Michael Bloomberg runs for president, as an independent candidate (a third party), he will split the votes between Clinton and Giuliani, maybe causing a dead heat. Maybe a bad example for horses but maybe that's what we see here, a split vote for the Arabian breed, as less and less people are choosing horses for recreation (maybe it is too expensive for the average Joe?) and the ones who do choose (who can afford it), have an overwhelming choice between the breeds, as to which horse is best suited for their goals.
Joined: 2-January 06
From: Prince George, B.C. Canada
Member No.: 3074
Good point Ralph, and possibly, if they are doing their research, they are looking at things like, which breed is less expensive to register, and /or to show etc., in which case the Arabian loses out. Cathy
Joined: 27-June 05
From: Paso Robles, CA
Member No.: 2551
When I first starting reading this Forum, there was quite a bit of type dedicated to the pro and con of preservation breeding.
Now, having looked at the stats on the breeding of the horses in the Nationals Shows, (primarily one or two breeders), the Pyramid Society EE, (a very concentrated group of horses in regard of bloodlines) and the AHA statistics regarding the Year to Date Registrations, one must come to the conclusion that we are all preservation breeders at this point.
Now, of course there are breeders out there with other lines who rarely come to any show, such as the many of the Al Khamsa breeders, some of the CMK breeders and others who just ride their horses, but apparently they are also not replacing their stock.
Finally, one wonders what the average age of the breeder of Arabian Horses is, today. That definitely is going to have an impact when there are either no children interested in carrying on a program, or even an a group who admires a program, and we, who have been around long enough, can name breeder after breeder whose program disappeared after their death into the next best idea.
Obviously there is a group, although limited in my mind as to future sales, except to each other and that is those who are primarilly interested in halter horses, but the harder part is getting performance back into the position it once held, because that is where we are going to bring in younger people who are or want to be athletes in the equine world. That must be the future for these horses or they may not have any future at all, as the majority of young people cannot afford a $35,000 halter horse, nor do many of them find it very interesting. (I know someone is going to have a problem with this, but it is an opinion, not a personal attack - so get over it!)
Take a look at some of the Auction Results (lots of Saddlebreds and Part Arab/Saddlebreds going through for not a lot of bucks) and I do mean the ones in which the horses are placed before the public and not a pre-established group to get an idea of where the market may be.
Since the AHA and others are stuck in futurities and high point horses in which many times the same owners win over and over again (and did so in the past) this is a problem which must be solved at the breeder/owner level if it is to be solved at all and that is the creation of interest in this horses for the average owner and an opportunity for them to participate.
We have discussed this over and over and perhaps it is time for more than just a forum discussion, perhaps it is time for a meeting or meetings to be set in different areas to brain storm and not leave it to delegates who might not have the ear of the AHA.
Joined: 21-March 03
Member No.: 192
I agree with you so much. We have to try to bring back "Horsemanship".How often did I say our young ones grduating from their wooden rocking horse want to ride the "real thing". Most all other breeds facilitate such. But we dont do much about it I think.And this is a very bad mistake.
Also I noticed that at particular seminars, open house particular people are invited, usually those with a lot of mony to spend. they are still talked into tax shelters,etc. and think that a $ 40,000 weanling is a bargain. that's INSANE.
If these open houses, seminars would bring in the pee-wees,the 7-12 age group, provide them with horses to try, and ride right there and then, have their parents be present to watch the enjoyment, we would be a step ahead. But it appears that most of them want to market their own product, -nothing wrong with it, provided it does not take priority over everything.
And you are aslo correct, that that label groups do not help. It would be wonderful if for instance the SOFIS would hold a seminar, having many of their horses shown under saddle, having the kids get up on them- even if they have to be led, and try them out. The same goes for various Al Khamsa breeder and MOST CERTAINLY for the high percentage of SE breeders. If these label groups would enter a team at the Ee endurance ride, even if it were just a ten miler, get a team of kids together and have them ride, it would be a tremendous impact. It might be wise to watch the RFD channel and see how those Pee-wees-4-7age already pole bend, loving it, and so does the public.Or enter some simple trail rides and enjoy it.
It is too bad that some of us are too old or handicapped to jump in and help, other than with advice or sponsoring. However, like all other sports, the equine sports willnever die out, too many people love horses and love riding or driving.It is just a matter of what breed they are introduced, see in action, to make a decision.
Ralph mentioned expenses. All sports are expensive, so is the equipment. It is true not everybody can afford it, but that was there at any prior times. But ways can be found to make it affordable to average incomes I feel. Not everybody can send a horse out to train and spent between $ 12-15,000 per year and might be ending up with a $ 5,000 sales horse. Our people can be trained to do their own.that's often the fun of it. Look what Susan Mayo does, how she promoted the Arabian horses and how her clients love it and find it affordable.Sharon does the same and so do many others. And these are very knowledgable horse folks.
Joined: 20-February 05
From: Saskatchewan, Canada
Member No.: 2242
The POINT that I was trying to make with my lengthy post last night, was that WE as breeders are an aging group. Let's be honest here. Almost everyone who posted on this thread is over 50! Hansi is over 75! Lorriee, Cathy and myself are over 50! Sad, but true!
What HAS to happen, all joking aside about breeding in care homes and so on, is that we MUST get the next generation interested in riding, showing, and breeding these magnificent animals, or it WILL DIE WITH ALL OF US! We have to interest the kids, the teens and the young adults. To do that, we have to make it interesting, fun and AFFORDABLE. HOW can we do that, when we are all currently raising horses that cost MORE to get to riding age, even without saddle training yet, than we could POSSIBLY sell them for?
In another thread that I started several weeks ago, called "Where have all the breeders gone", we came up with some exceptionally wonderful things that we could all do to try to get this on-track again. Someone could have taped some of the seminars from the EE. Did they? Hansi had a FABULOUS opportunity to have a clinic or seminar and teach as she always SAYS that she loves to do, and that she SAYS she WILL do at no charge! Did she? I understand that it was a bit of a short notice to get things arranged for THIS year. How about next year?
I have TRIED to help out, by starting a thread called "Training, Riding and Showing on a budget", sharing my experiences of trying to train WITHOUT the expense of a trainer, by going to some LOCAL ALL-BREED clinics and seminars. I shared my experiences, the expenses, and my plans. There was little if any response from anyone under 50! (Except for Cheryl of course, who is wonderfully supportive of everything that we try to do!)
I have tried to promote the SE and ES horses in my local and surrouding areas by sponsoring an award for the Top Egyptian Horse. This year I am offering not only the plaques, but also a small gift of a Gift Certificate to the local Tack Shop (who also supports out show) to try to encourage the youngsters.
My neice rides a QH. But then, riding any breed is great! She graduated from high school last weekend. For her graduation gift, I gave her a Gift Certificate from a Tack Store, to try to encourage her to stay interested in riding and showing her horse. She was thrilled with it.
I have taught 4-H, I have taught at the local "Learn to Ride" program (all on a volunteer basis). I AM NOT wanting any praise here AT ALL, just wanting to let you all know what I have TRIED to do to help out, and to try to encourage other aging breeders (and yes, we are ALL aging) to try to do the same in their own local areas.
But, I still contend that the BEST thing that I could have done was to expose my horse-crazy daughter to some of the things that she has been able to be involved with, encoraged and supported her in MOST of her decisions, while also, unfortunately, having to encourage her to not "get in over her head", so that she can still ride, train and show, and still afford to pay the mortgage and eat at the same time.
If ANYONE has any fruitful suggestions, PLEASE OFFER THEM! I am here, and am willing to help AT ANY TIME.
Joined: 10-April 03
Member No.: 301
I'm from Germany, but I think the situation is comparable. So maybe we can get the average age of this topic down a bit I'm 21, and very interested in Arabian Horses, as is my family is. I can say for Germany that there are so many helping hands - longtime breeders who welcome young people to learn about their horses and share their knowledge and experience... I must say that the support you can get if you aks for it is very strong. It's hard to say why less people are interested in horses, but I think that this is not only concerning Arabians. I know of course other "young" people, warmbloodriders merely, and I can say that their number is going down as well. The riding clubs here all claim that the youth is dying out - the kids may take a riding lesson from time to time but then, they have many other interests, and riding is just one among them. And when they become older, they want to be succesful, work on their carreer - rather than in the barn. And I'm living in a rural countryside!
What I would want to change about the SEs - I would like to put less emphazis on the shows. Really, if you are not getting used to it step by step, it seems very strange to see adults behaving this way. It's not only the fact that horses wear make up... it's mainly the surrounding, how serious everybody takes the thing, that is - seen from an objectiv point of view - a bit ridiculous compared to sport horses and their riders, who show a performance. Thinking about it, this attitude of wanting to be the best and having the most beautiful horse, really it not attracting to a newcomer. I have been to dog shows as well - it's the same thing, but people are not stressed there, the dogs are not stressed, nobody is under pressure. It's a pleasure to be there for everyone, not just for the winner. But now, how change this? There is too much money involved at the big shows. There should be more things we do together, small shows or riding competitions, that are "just for fun". That would be great.