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Dr Daniel Wigger
post Sep 29 2003, 11:27 AM
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Liebes Forum,

nun hat sich Oliver schon so eine Mühe gemacht, den Artikel zu schreiben - also fange ich mal mit der Diskussion an. Hier also meine Meinung:

Ich oute mich als Nicht-Reiter, den Ägypter aus rein ästhetischen und kulturell-historischen Gründen und vielleicht einer Art tierzüchterischen Neugier heraus faszinieren. Der Erhaltungsaspekt ist mir weitaus wichtiger als die Reitbarkeit. Trotzdem MUSS die Reitbarkeit und ein dafür erforderliches Exterieur Selektionskriterium bleiben, da sie auch für den Beduinen überlebenswichtig waren. Daher begrüße ich den Vorstoß des VZAP, die Rittigkeitsprüfung mit in die Hengstbeurteilung einfließen zu lassen. Allerdings müssen wir uns fragen, ob mit der europäischen Reitweise und dem dafür geeigneten Exterieur nicht eine Selektionsrichtung eingeschlagen wurde, die dem Erhaltungsaspekt zuwiderläuft. Ein schwungvoller (Show-)Trab war sicherlich für ein Wüstenpferd eine vollkommen fremde, unangemessen energiezehrende Fortbewegungsart, die auch bei den Bodenverhältnissen (steiniges Hochland, Sandwüste) der Arabia deserta nur selten angebracht war und eben eine Winkelung und Bemuskelung eines Warmblutfundaments erfordert. Der Originalaraber, wie wir ihn aus Berichten, historischen Kunstwerken und alten Fotos her kennen, hatte aber eben ein ganz anderes Gebäude. Angepaßt an eine möglichst kraftsparende Fortbewegung über endlos lange Strecken in steinigem oder sandigen Gelände hat sich eine Fortbewegungsart entwickelt, die wie bei Wildtieren des gleichen Lebensraumes aus kurzen Galopp- und Schrittfolgen besteht. Hierzu waren ein kurzer Rücken, lange Beine und steile Gliedmaßenwinkel ideal, weil die Hinterhand schnell und ohne große Kraftübertragung sozusagen unter den Schwerpunkt pendeln konnte. Die Kruppe war kurz und gerade, weil dazu kein großer Muskelapparat mit langen Hebeln erforderlich war. Aus Gleichgewichtsgründen waren die Hälse dieser im Quadrat- oder gar Hochrechteckformat stehenden Pferde eher kurz und hoch angesetzt.

Man möge mich korrigieren, wenn ich auf dem Holzpfad wandele, aber die "Umzüchtung" des Originalarabers in einen modernen Kulturaraber mit "Reitpferdepoints" nach europäischen Wünschen begann sicher schon zu Zeiten der RAS unter dem englischen Kavallerieveterinär Dr. Branch.

Ich habe nichts dagegen, nur für mich (und vielleicht andere auch) stellt sich manchmal die Frage, WAS das Zuchtziel eigentlich sein soll. Denn zwischen den Ansprüchen moderner Reiterei und der Erhaltung des Originalarabers liegen nun einmal Welten ...
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ema
post Oct 5 2003, 05:29 PM
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There are the people that we, in the south (USA & QH country) tend to sneer at a bit... they call our Arabians AY-Rabs, and give them credit for nothing but flightiness and craziness. We who love them know that there is little truth in those ideas... We don't want to have the same sort of prejudice (just wearing different "clothes") against other breeds that we struggle against smile.gif I have worked years ago with Thoroughbreds and found them courageous, though somewhat hot temperamentally sometimes, and not afraid to give you a good look in the eye.. they want to connect too! I am not familiar with Warmbloods except for the one time I went to a friend's barn where she raises and trains them. I did not find them dull at all, just BIG!! They had a certain beauty and my (yours too if they are Arabian!) horses would look like ponies beside them! I have worked some with QH and Saddlebred and TWH and have not found any breed to be dim-witted, though some individuals are... Within their "look" there is beauty and substance and courage and many times a comfortable ride too... just as it is in our own horses. We DON'T, imho, want to be like those who look down their noses at our crazy AY-Rabs, or we become no better than they... smile.gif

Even the most delicate and beautiful halter horse can excel at something under saddle. Not all horses are made for tough, long hours of training and riding and work. Why would most endurance riders seem to always be looking for the next horse? Some will make it, some won't over the long term. If we were to round up every horse that has leg faults or some other faults that make it less able than others, the killers would not be able to buy them all, and the delicacy of horse meat in Europe, dog food makers, and others who might make use of horses would be flooded!! No, there is no perfect horse out there... some have more serious problems than others. Some are made tough and strong and some more delicate. They can ALL perform! The only thing that guides us in this is our own "want-to" to get on and ride, or lack of it! If your life is halter and your horses are never ridden... that's ok. If you are a rider who thinks all, or many, halter horses are sissies, try them sometime... you could be surprised. But PLEASE give them all the benefit of the doubt!

Oliver wrote a good article and it is a wake up call for some of us. Others will read it and never change. Some horses will be trained for saddle work or driving, some will never leave the halter training behind to do more. It's ok... Kinda like a saying here in the USA (and maybe everywhere, I don't know) "I'm ok, You're ok" .... Our job is to do what we do best. If we are breeding, to breed the best possible... if we are riding to do our best and not look down on another's choice...

Our job is to promote our horses to the new folks out there as well as to each other.. if they want a horse for the kids to ride, someone with an Arabian will have one. If they want a show horse, some will have one. If they want an Eventing horse who can and will jump high and with courage, someone has it. If they want an endurance horse... well, you get the picture.... smile.gif To me, this is the most logical conclusion to come to. Then we work together to grow our breed and be able to bring in new blood (as in owners, not so much horses) with new and fresh ideas. Prices will go up some and/or stay up better because there is a demand for them... Let the prejudice fall by the wayside. We will all be better for it smile.gif

Just an opinion from the peanut gallery rolleyes.gif

Julia
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Posts in this topic
- Dr Daniel Wigger   Born To Perform   Sep 29 2003, 11:27 AM
- - Babs   Habe den Artikel gerade gelesen und im Geiste viel...   Sep 29 2003, 11:32 AM
- - Steffi   Ich meine jeder soll machen was er mag. Am Ende re...   Sep 29 2003, 11:39 AM
- - Jens   Lieber Dr. Wigger, das was Sie schreiben, empfinde...   Sep 29 2003, 12:01 PM
- - Hannes   hannes Habe die Meinungen alle mir durch den Kopf ...   Sep 29 2003, 12:27 PM
- - Jürgen   das ist ein guter punkt. wer seine fohlen auf den ...   Sep 29 2003, 12:47 PM
- - corbinmk   Good article. Why wouldn't the breeders utili...   Sep 29 2003, 01:01 PM
- - Oliver   So viele Meinungen, so viele gute Argumente für je...   Sep 29 2003, 01:34 PM
- - corbinmk   Oliver, yes, you did. It stated that he was the f...   Sep 29 2003, 02:23 PM
- - hlsmaripa   Dear Oliver, Excellent article, I agree totally...   Sep 29 2003, 02:23 PM
- - HLM   good morning everybody Most interesting conversat...   Sep 29 2003, 03:06 PM
- - Guest_Sara   QUOTE (HLM @ Sep 29 2003, 04:06 PM)I was not ...   Sep 29 2003, 04:01 PM
- - Ralph   Oliver: This article is thoughtful and underscore...   Sep 29 2003, 04:21 PM
- - HLM   Ralph it is true what you are saying. I dont know...   Sep 29 2003, 04:48 PM
- - Ralph   Hansi: I have to disagree with you. The priorit...   Sep 29 2003, 05:10 PM
- - HLM   Ralph read my post again, I said "etc". absolutely...   Sep 29 2003, 07:04 PM
- - Abbasiyah   KUDOS TO OLIVER on "Born to Perform"! Oliver,...   Sep 29 2003, 08:01 PM
- - Ralph   I am having a senior moment...PLEASE STAND BY   Sep 29 2003, 08:32 PM
- - Mary M   I disagree entirely that we have to breed an "eith...   Sep 29 2003, 09:44 PM
- - Mary M   Wind N Fire   Sep 29 2003, 09:45 PM
- - Guest_Gast   Der Markt für arabische Pferde liegt ja wohl haupt...   Sep 29 2003, 10:09 PM
- - Kul Hussun al-Melik Arabians   What an article! Thank you Oliver - now if tho...   Sep 29 2003, 11:50 PM
- - An American Breeder   Hello All: First, a HUGE kudos (thanks) to Olive...   Sep 30 2003, 12:13 AM
- - HLM   good evening everybody It appears that all posts ...   Sep 30 2003, 12:45 AM
- - petersen   Guten Morgen, Ein Thema, das mir als Distanzreiter...   Sep 30 2003, 04:35 AM
- - Anjuli   An Oliver! Über Deine kritische Anmerkung zum ...   Sep 30 2003, 06:24 AM
- - Layla   Hallo, Sie sprechen einen sehr wichtigen Punkt an,...   Sep 30 2003, 07:09 AM
- - Guest_El Sabu   Herr Petersen wir haben vor einigen Jahren auch ei...   Sep 30 2003, 11:21 AM
- - HLM   Good morning everybody Ich erfuhr dass Herr Beste...   Sep 30 2003, 01:06 PM
- - petersen   Guten Morgen Hansi, Im Fundament hat Makib eine gu...   Sep 30 2003, 01:23 PM
- - HLM   Lieber Lutz |dann habe ich es falsch verstan...   Sep 30 2003, 05:56 PM
- - Copi   Hallo, auch wir hatten letztes Jahr das gleiche. A...   Sep 30 2003, 07:30 PM
- - HLM   Hi Sarah Many experts watched the show and came t...   Sep 30 2003, 08:32 PM
- - Guest_AndreaO   Wir drehen uns im Kreis!!!! Denn g...   Oct 1 2003, 06:46 AM
- - HLM   Liebe Andrea I habe immer etwas gegen ein "Richte...   Oct 1 2003, 10:51 AM
- - diane   Oliver – well written! My thoughts - peer pr...   Oct 1 2003, 11:48 AM
- - HLM   Dear Diane YOu said it well. However, not all can...   Oct 1 2003, 12:26 PM
- - Uwe   I doubt that shows will draw more spectators with ...   Oct 1 2003, 12:36 PM
- - HLM   Dear Oliver Where do I find the articel you wrote,...   Oct 1 2003, 12:54 PM
- - almuntaha   Hi Hansi, in the international section you will f...   Oct 1 2003, 01:10 PM
- - Thorsten   No Hansi, you have to click the "BACKGROUND" butto...   Oct 1 2003, 01:19 PM
- - HLM   Thanks christian, I will look at it. Have a nice ...   Oct 1 2003, 02:06 PM
- - Dennis   I can't understand why Mrs Heck-Melnyk always ...   Oct 2 2003, 08:16 AM
- - Liz Salmon   Great thought provoking article Oliver—congratulat...   Oct 2 2003, 01:03 PM
- - Ralph   Dear Liz: I read your post and I wanted to unders...   Oct 2 2003, 01:49 PM
- - HLM   Good morning Liz It appears to me that some peopl...   Oct 2 2003, 02:02 PM
- - Liz Salmon   I'll have a go at discribing true gaits for an...   Oct 2 2003, 02:39 PM
- - Ralph   Liz: Thank you for the very thorough descriptions...   Oct 2 2003, 03:12 PM
- - HLM   thanks Liz, this is well explained. Conformation i...   Oct 2 2003, 03:20 PM
- - Liz Salmon   Ralph, did you got to the Sport Horse Nationals ? ...   Oct 2 2003, 03:28 PM
- - Ralph   Post withdrawn   Oct 2 2003, 04:20 PM
- - Guest_tous crins   QUOTE as I find your horses resembling Thoroughbre...   Oct 2 2003, 06:12 PM
- - Ralph   Post withdrawn   Oct 2 2003, 06:26 PM
- - ema   Ralph, I went back and read your post... and the ...   Oct 2 2003, 06:41 PM
- - Ralph   Post withdrawn   Oct 2 2003, 06:59 PM
- - Liz Salmon   Julia, you are absolutely correct in saying that—q...   Oct 2 2003, 07:17 PM
- - Guest   QUOTE When I look at Hansi's horses, everythin...   Oct 2 2003, 07:20 PM
- - HLM   Hi Julia, Christine and all Why I refused to repl...   Oct 2 2003, 07:21 PM
- - ema   LOL Ralph, I have read this thread from its begi...   Oct 2 2003, 07:25 PM
- - HLM   Hi Liz I just read the posts, replied once, and a...   Oct 2 2003, 07:47 PM
- - Ralph   Well, Hansi, you have a point, in all that you hav...   Oct 2 2003, 08:34 PM
- - ELAcrisi   Born to perform ? How gentle are theses horses t...   Oct 2 2003, 09:09 PM
- - ELAcrisi   Do you think they suffer not to perform (for human...   Oct 2 2003, 09:39 PM
- - HLM   Hi Elacresi that is a lovely photo and I can just...   Oct 2 2003, 11:06 PM
- - Layman 2   Ralph, don't stop posting. Others share your v...   Oct 3 2003, 12:16 AM
- - diane   Most of the regulars on this forum will appreciate...   Oct 3 2003, 12:43 AM
- - Sylvia   Hello, I´m from Germany and speak for the German ...   Oct 3 2003, 05:53 PM
- - Guest   To be honest, I don't really understand the cr...   Oct 3 2003, 06:16 PM
- - Sylvia   Dear Guest It is too bad , that there are no spor...   Oct 3 2003, 06:46 PM
- - HLM   Hi Guest Your idea is excellent, except for one t...   Oct 3 2003, 06:55 PM
- - Liz Salmon   The US Sport Horse classes are not just in hand. T...   Oct 3 2003, 07:02 PM
- - Guest_phanilah   After reading Diane's post, I deleted what I h...   Oct 3 2003, 07:37 PM
- - Guest   Whew, lot's of opinions, I'm afraid to say...   Oct 4 2003, 12:17 AM
- - Kiyoko   Changing the minds of the popular breeders out the...   Oct 4 2003, 04:03 AM
- - Guest   Again, even with the TB , if these horses aren...   Oct 4 2003, 11:28 AM
- - HLM   HI Kioko I dont know which area of the USA/Canada...   Oct 4 2003, 05:29 PM
- - Guest   May I suggest we put things into perspective. S...   Oct 4 2003, 06:05 PM
- - Guest_tous crins   Hi Ralph, I must apologize. I was looking at one ...   Oct 4 2003, 07:45 PM
- - Guest   The answer to this dilemma is simple.   Oct 4 2003, 08:40 PM
- - HLM   dear Christina You should not have to apologize a...   Oct 5 2003, 01:42 PM
- - Iris   Hansi, there is no one more fond of criticizing ho...   Oct 5 2003, 03:13 PM
- - Sylvia   Quote: "My opinion, which is just one opinion, I d...   Oct 5 2003, 03:41 PM
- - HLM   Dear Iris I am sorry to correct you, but what I d...   Oct 5 2003, 05:35 PM
- - Ralph   Hansi: Tonight, I read the post you wrote to Chri...   Oct 6 2003, 02:38 AM
- - kayemgal   I have posted before on this wonderful website, an...   Oct 6 2003, 05:52 AM
- - HLM   good morning dear Kayemgal I agree whith what you...   Oct 6 2003, 01:19 PM
- - Iris   QUOTE (HLM @ Oct 5 2003, 06:35 PM)Dear Iris ...   Oct 6 2003, 01:57 PM
- - Iris   QUOTE (Iris @ Oct 6 2003, 02:57 PM)QUOTE (HLM...   Oct 6 2003, 02:26 PM
- - HLM   Dear Iris Am I misunderstanding you? you made a s...   Oct 6 2003, 03:00 PM
- - Iris   As a matter of fact we have met and I've seen ...   Oct 6 2003, 03:39 PM
- - HLM   Dear Iris I can not remember meeting you before, n...   Oct 6 2003, 04:18 PM
- - Guest   Hansi, With all due respect.... Serenity (Defin...   Oct 6 2003, 04:57 PM
- - Meitou   Big applause for guest! A big THANK YOU too.   Oct 6 2003, 05:02 PM
- - HLM   Again, "unregistered guest". why dont you sign you...   Oct 6 2003, 08:24 PM
- - Guest   This is meant with a bit of encouragement. We nee...   Oct 6 2003, 09:55 PM
- - HLM   Dear Forum readers I said it before" none can tea...   Oct 6 2003, 11:52 PM
- - petersen   Guten Morgen, Sie ist für die Leistung geboren, un...   Oct 10 2003, 07:06 AM
- - ALMASE   Not a straight Egyptians, but just came across an ...   Oct 10 2003, 04:13 PM
- - jörgen preuss   Der Sieger im H.H. Sheikh Hamdan`s Tripel Comp...   Oct 13 2003, 11:17 AM
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