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> Basilisks, please explain whether she is Asil
zandri
post Sep 11 2007, 05:20 PM
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Dear all SE breeders please could you be so kind I dont breed pure SE although i do use SE stallions in my breeding program my friend recently bought a SE stallion Arabest Shaam i consider him one of the best SE stallions currently in South Africa however every time a SE breeder phones to book a breeding they change their minds when they here Basiliks is in his pedigree he is clasified as SE Asil Al Khamsa Blue list could you explain what is so terrible about this mare and maybe some one perhaps has a photo of her kind regards zandri
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Dr Daniel Wigger
post Sep 11 2007, 07:57 PM
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Basilisk has been discussed here in abundance and there are photos in the regarding threads also. Just use the search-function. She is SE and asil and has never had a different status. Nothing is more terrible today than rumours of newcomers who didn't do their homework properly.
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Anne-Louise
post Sep 11 2007, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (Dr Daniel Wigger @ Sep 11 2007, 08:57 PM)
She is SE and asil and has never had a different status. Nothing is more terrible today than rumours of newcomers who didn't do their homework properly.
*


Bravo, Dr. Wigger, and ditto - I agree completely.
Anne-Louise
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Echo1
post Sep 11 2007, 09:13 PM
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Basilisk is Straight Egyptian, and is considered an Asil horse as Dr Wigger has mentioned. She is also listed as an Al Khamsa horse. Basilisk is not however, considered a *Blue List horse or qualifies for *Blue List Eligible.

There is a photo of her in the Al Khamsa II book. smile.gif
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zandri
post Sep 12 2007, 05:16 AM
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thank you for all the replies i will go and look up the info we do not want to spread rumors and we also had it that Arabest Shaam is Se Asil Al Khamsa and Blue list here in RSA there is less than 300 SE horses like i said he is one of the best SE stallions in RSA and we simply wanted to know why SE and Asil breeders prefer to not have her in a pedigree she is only once in his pedigree and so far back it just seemed such a waste that people choose to through this stallions precious bloodlines away over just one horse have a nice day z
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Oliver
post Sep 12 2007, 01:45 PM
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Dear Zandri

I hope you have found the old Basilisk topics.
If not, please just CLICK HERE to find one very interesting thread about her.
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Avalondales Egyp...
post Sep 12 2007, 01:46 PM
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Hi all,


I agree to some extent that some horses that have questionable pedigrees have had comments about them made multiple times... And we have pages and pages of flaming comments regarding them...

I take offense to the term "newcomer not doing their homework"...What kind elitist BS is that.. As breeders we should be taking them under our wing and welcoming them with open arms...I think it is a breeders job to let their customers know what is favorable, rare, or controversial in a pedigree. A newcomer I am not, but WE NEED THEM.. To be so glib with a response to an honest question is one of the things that is wrong with our industry... We wonder why they don't flock to our beautiful horses, maybe it because we act like asses when they ask question...

Zandri,

What I can tell you about horses in general that have some element in their pedigree that someone finds objectionable USUALLY pertains to some sort of politics.. This industry has TONS and TONS of it... If the horse is noted as Straight Egyptian then in the eyes of the Pyramid Society it is Straight Egyptian... If the stallion you note is a prime specimen then shame on Straight Egyptian breeders that choose not to use him due to an element in his pedigree...Another thing I will say is the Politics have play in marketability and that might be what these breeders fear they will breed a nice foal that they can't market... This happens all the time... I am sorry your post was greeted with the label newcomer.... It sounds as though you have interest in Straight Egyptians and I hope the response didn't sour you... Tracy
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Echo1
post Sep 12 2007, 02:03 PM
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Tracy,
I think you misunderstood the responses. I think what is being said, there may be newcomers telling the stallion owner that if the horse has Basilisk, then it is not SE. Which would not be correct information. Basilisk is SE, and a horse , even though not Blue List can still qualify for SE and Asil.
Chill.. biggrin.gif
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Avalondales Egyp...
post Sep 12 2007, 03:44 PM
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Sorry I guess I can chill,

In the tradition of the late great Gilda Radner when she portrayed Emily Latella...I must say once the light bulb goes on... Never mind...

I thought Zandri was being called "a newcomer not doing her homework"... You have to admit though most of the politics involved with some of the horses that have been soiled by rumor was started by breeders that have a few years under their belt and may be being parroted as fact by newcomers that would take the word of one of the seasoned breeders as gospel... When in most cases the rumor has more to do with preference and its justification and therefore political rather than a factual probelm with the horse...

Zandri... I would suggest the next time your friend runs into this road block perhaps they could have some questions to ask in regards to problems with Basilisk... Or even ask questions to develop a profile of who has interest, how long they have been in the business, what they are breeding for... Your friend might find even before negotiations on breeding that the mare doesn't meet their goal for the stallion..

Once again the light goes on... Why would a breeder worth their salt have an identifiable problem with a certain horse and not do the pedigree research involved.. Make the call to the stallion owner and then do the research and find out this element is involved... Yes, Yes I see the big picture, but it was an
honest mistake... Dr. Wigger, I am sorry I mistook your advice to Zandri... Tracy
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HLM
post Sep 12 2007, 04:22 PM
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I cant believe what I am reading, people refuse to breed with Basilisk in the Pedigree. Well, we might as well then cut thousands out. this is so ridiculous.
If we were to count all the rumors about so many horses we hardly have anything left, right?

Basilisk has no probelms, she is Asil and an SE mare..

Hansi biggrin.gif
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Echo1
post Sep 12 2007, 04:31 PM
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Tracy,
Not to worry, smile.gif I remember Emily Latella...'nevermind'. laugh.gif

Hansi,
Yes, well, Blue list or not, should not make a total determination on a SE horse unless you are going to get extremely picky on horses. I think it is all a matter of how a breeder prioritized the qualities of a horse. Some start with tiny details, others look at the big picture first, I suppose. On the grand scale of things, Blue List would be way far down on the list of priorities smile.gif .
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Heirloom Arabian...
post Sep 12 2007, 06:36 PM
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BLUE List or not, has got nothing to do with being SE or asil,, If my memory serves me,, This "blue list thing" was one persons opnion? got nothing to do with a good horse,
Most of my major stock has this blood, if its hurt or deluted, than all i can say,, is it dont matter now,!


mike
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DemelzaH
post Sep 12 2007, 06:52 PM
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huh.gif
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Echo1
post Sep 12 2007, 06:56 PM
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Hi Mike,

I understand what you're saying, but before Al Khamsa, Asil club or TPS there was the catalog of horses which was *Blue List. So it was a good piece of information at that time. Lots of folks since then used this information to track horses before all these other organizations came to be since we all didn't have access to a datasource or stud books , etc.
It served it's purpose pretty well back then. Today we have more information to go on. So it shouldn't be looked at as a thorn in someone's side. Rather, with understanding of what it meant at that time in history.

Some breeders who 'only' breed *Blue list eligible horses, still reference this. To them it may mean something, to others who do not, it doesn't mean anything. I suppose same as those who breed only SE compared to those who breed simply purebred Arabians, whether they be Egyptian or not.

In any case, to each their own as you suggest as well. In today's pedigrees Basilisk has to be sooo far back in the pedigree it wouldn't make or break a horse in how it looks. smile.gif
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Heirloom Arabian...
post Sep 12 2007, 07:16 PM
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I answer this ,with the origional poster and questions in mind,
Most of my stock, includeing my senior stallion are considerd, 99.798% blue list, that other lack of percentage is because of this line, Thats along way back, and now in 2007 ,has got hardly nothing to do with the horse standing in front of you,

Most know my senior stallion and within reason, cant tell me, that he hasnt proven himself, over and over again, BLUE List is a label,,, much like all the others, only important to thos interested in the purity of that line??

As I said,, the blue list thing,,,, was one persons opnion, and NOt included in a now closed list! right?


Just something to think about

Mike
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