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> Comparisons Of Countries By Registration
An American Bree...
post Oct 14 2003, 05:23 PM
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In the United States the highest year of foal registrations during one year was 1986 according to DataSource with 28,216 foals. In 2000 there were 8810 foals registered during one year. In 2001 the total was 7574 foals. Last year, 2002, 3273 foals were registered, less than half of the previous year. mad.gif

This year for 2003, as of 10-15-2003 there are 1492 foals registered with 185 of these foals listed as Straight Egyptian. sad.gif

Our mare lines are disappearing fast, in all lines of the Arabian breed. unsure.gif

How does the American trend compare with the rest of the world? Percentage or actual numbers -- what is happening in other areas with their valuable mare lines?

Curious -- thank you.
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diane
post Oct 14 2003, 10:48 PM
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perhaps and its a big perhaps, responsibility in some ways is coming into play as there isn't a need for a huge number of equines including Arabians these days. Equines are, more or less, a luxury.

The fact that more people are following trends perhaps encouraged by media hype is a tad discouraging as the broadest spectrum of bloodlines need to be maintained with the understanding the gene pool for asil Arabians is closed. Understanding the diversity of the Arabian is paramount under these circumstances.

The question could be: how much do breeding decisions rely on what is and what is not rather than assessing a good Arabian for its merit, especially considering its diversity?
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bterlaan
post Oct 15 2003, 04:48 AM
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Did you take into account the possibility that a number of Arabs are perhaps not registered with AHRA anymore, but directly with PAHR? Then another possible cause for the dwindling numbers: AHRA allows registration of adult horses, based on DNA testing, This will cause many breeders to defer registration until eg selling the horse or breeding from it, giving one the opportunity to see how it develops before going through the cumbersome and expensive exercise of registering a horse.
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Gari
post Oct 15 2003, 06:31 AM
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Bterlaan,

With due respect...you are dreaming in part. Most US owners /breeders have never heard of WAHO/PAHR . Where there is a following in other countries it is virtually non-existent here. Conversely your point is well taken about delaying registration. Think you are on to something about the expense. It is ridiculously over priced and certainly a deterrant to those of middle income who would like to become involved but put off by the costs.

Diane,

You're right, of course. It is a luxury and many of those who can afford it wouldn't and don't have a clue if you discussed mare lines with them. Goodness knows I can think of three well-heeled breeders who have been in the business over 20 years and well known in the US at the very least, and they have not a clue about tail females, strains, dam lines and get downright surly if you make an attempt to discuss such. Each and everyone will identify the tail female, strain, dam line by I.D.ing a male line, eg., "Dam line? Kuhailan Haifi of course!" Several have a nearly 'off with their heads' mentality because they are so bored by the subject.

Oh well. We just have to keep plugging away and take satisfaction in knowing that those who haven't a clue have to breed at least 100 before they can breed a winner of any variety. By the way, do you know how you know them? They have never, despite all the money in the world, bred a major winner in halter and performance but have had to purchase them all. On the other hand, because they don't pay attention, they don't know and almost always say, "Oh but you know breeding is such a craps shoot....".

Gari
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post Oct 15 2003, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE
Did you take into account the possibility that a number of Arabs are perhaps not registered with AHRA anymore, but directly with PAHR? Then another possible cause for the dwindling numbers: AHRA allows registration of adult horses, based on DNA testing, This will cause many breeders to defer registration until eg selling the horse or breeding from it, giving one the opportunity to see how it develops before going through the cumbersome and expensive exercise of registering a horse.


The answer is no. The number of registrations with PAHR will probably be less than half than the total number of this year's foal registrations. PAHR's scope is severely limited to exports only based on membership service performance.

The delay of registration is too costly. The regular price to register a 24-month old and older is $500.00 for both AHA members and non-AHA members, non-refundable.
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An American Bree...
post Oct 15 2003, 01:37 PM
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Hello All: I did not bring in PAHR because hopefully this thread will not be about PAHR, that is for another thread. tongue.gif I would ask all of you to please respect this desire and wait with any comments on this situation until such time as there is a thread on them. cool.gif

Actually the most PAHR has registered in one year is a little over 200 horses and last year in 2002 was less than 200. American is exporting almost no horses. There are something like 1500 or 1700 horses TOTAL that have gone through PAHR since Jan 1., 1998.
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nwind
post Oct 15 2003, 06:23 PM
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Well, I have three lovely colts to register, but have spending my money on hay, hoof care and assorted things so they grow up strong and healthy. $300 for registration is a BIG bite out of the budget! I am considering registering them only with USAHR, which would cost $195.
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ema
post Oct 15 2003, 06:57 PM
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One of the things I thought seriously about with USAHR is that IF I decided to register with them instead of AHR, then I would have youngsters to sell that a person could NOT show in Class A or better competition unless they paid to have them re-registered with the AHR, and probably at a lot of expense rather than the $100 each it would cost to register them right away (at an early age) with the AHR.

AHR registered babies are showable, etc. no matter in what venue a new owner might choose. Would it not be a detraction when selling your young to not have them registered with the existing (AHR) registry?

I have not done PAHR either, but I have not needed to export yet, and I believe that is most of their purpose for existance (at least that is what I have been told). BUT, if I did double register, PAHR should be the right way to go, since that would facilitate exportation and re-registration into a WAHO country...

I am not sure if my view will be popular here, but I do know that I am not the only one wondering why we should register with USAHR. What are the benefits that would make it worthwhile to leave AHR behind, or to double, maybe triple register, which brings our cost significantly higher...

Julia
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An American Bree...
post Oct 15 2003, 08:10 PM
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Must be the month! biggrin.gif Halloween and full moons! rolleyes.gif The thread is about the disappearance of mare lines and the declining number of foals.

I, like my partner, can take people on very well about USAHR vs AHR -- but let's not today! Thanks, all. Back to the original questions, No PAHR, WAHO, AHR vs USAHR. Thanks. Hopefully we can discuss this thread without the rancor -- trying to head em all off at the pass. ph34r.gif
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nwind
post Oct 15 2003, 08:24 PM
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Julia, you must understand that I don't care about Class A shows. I have NO interest in trying to compete with the new accepted US standard of the "Saddlebred Look" with my SE horses and less interest in handing them over to a brutal trainer. I have found very few buyers who are into showing either and those prefer open shows. I admit, I tend to seek out buyers who want horses to ride and use, not show because I want happier lives for my babies than most show horses in this country have. Right now, I am not realizing ANY benefits of my AHA membership other than a glossy magazine full of pictures of Saddlebred looking horses and the priviledge of paying too much for registration.

Apologies, American Breeder - I did not mean to detract from the topic of registration and irreplacable mare lines being lost, which is a matter that should be of HUGE concern to everyone.
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An American Bree...
post Oct 17 2003, 01:36 PM
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Hello All -- NO ONE in any other countries has any problem with declining registrations and loss of irreplaceable mare lines? No where?
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HLM
post Oct 17 2003, 03:00 PM
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Good morning Bterlaan

PAHR has up todate approximately 1900 registrations, of which I surmise 95percent are also registered with the AHRA.
all our horses are double registered-( with both registries)

People, who left our Arabian industry, unable or unwilling to stand the halter class behavior, some are now returning going strictly "Sportshorse Arabians". It appears that the Arabian indeed excells in endurance racing and other stress performances. It was quite evidenced at the US National sportshorse championships with c. 1500 entries (c.500 horses participated) of which c.90percent were in the under saddle performances. A high percentage of that were ridden by young riders.

Many well known breeders indeed cut back and only bred few mares, leaving the othes open, in order to not overuse the market, which includes us, often up to 75percent.

Another reason for leaving is that quite a few turned to other breeds, simply because of the behavior they experienced on some forums . We were able to persuate some to return to the Arabian breed and got numerous people into the saddle.

Have a nice day
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms








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post Oct 18 2003, 05:20 AM
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dear American Breeder,
what does Hansi's post have to do with your original question?? In particular this passage

"""""""Another reason for leaving is that quite a few turned to other breeds, simply because of the behavior they experienced on some forums .""""""""""" She just cannot post without throwing at least a couple of barbs. Pitiful??!!!!

If you remove posts solely due to applicability then should it be uniformly applied??

Personally the rate at which some valuable mare lines are disappearing is alarming and the practice of breeding indiscriminately to the currently popular fad is solely responsible for the narrowing of the gene-pool.
That will not change until the glitz and Glamor of well heeled dilletantes ceases to be a major influence at shows.
They are here today and tomorrow they are off on another quest to satisfy their egos and their horses wind up as Belgian deli fare.
I mean no offence,
have a great day......
PS. you are welcome to remove this one also.
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An American Bree...
post Oct 18 2003, 01:50 PM
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Reluctant 2: Part of the reason for the mares being bred out of the Arabian breed is the push by the Big Hair Trainers wanting half Arabians for several reasons as well as what you stated. What then occurs is that the precious stallions, and this includes the really top quality individuals, are discarded and the mares are taken for breeding to other horse breeds or to the individuals that are the "flavor of the moment" and represent what is the show ring in America today.

Perhaps it is past time for those abroad to know that there are many Arabian breeders in America who like them, will NOT accept this Saddlebred look or blood either. However, the show ring here in the US is so controlled by the trainer/judges/NSH owners-trainers-riders as again judges that the stallions don't stand a chance! Owners are not going to do what is necessary (cost, training, shipping, etc) to present their lovely stallions in the show ring to be left on the rail. Sooo --- the genocide (as I personally see it) continues. Get rid of the males and make the females pregnant with these Saddlebred and Halfs.

Now, how can we stop this destruction of the authentic purebred Arabian horse in America? This is all lines, not just the Egyptian horses.

That should be the topic here. How to save these irreplaceable mare lines? Thank you as I know you do have valuable input that perhaps will help at least educate some who need to know how bad the situation is in the United States and thus help the breed here at home.
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HLM
post Oct 18 2003, 03:01 PM
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Good morning American Breeder and all

you are so very correct. Although ALWAYS reputed, no matter what I write by the GROUP issuing continous hostility , insults and disrespect, I did not want to go into specifics as you did. But it is correct what you are writing. The question asked was answered in part by me and you did the rest for which those interested should be grateful.
Until we all learn of facts and the truth, many things can not change.

I find it so rewarding when other posters produce photos of
various SE/Asils of the past as a reminder. The combined efforts of all of us will ensure survival of proven bloodlines.
Those who own the Asil Book V will see some of our imports in
the 21 pages we bought. All these lines bred on successfully.

It is also rewarding that again numerous people are back in the saddle doing their best to continue proving the SE's stress performance abilities, making them very formidable competitors,and beautiful ones in my opinion..


Have a nice day
Hansi
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