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> Z T Ali Baba, any information on this line
arabrider57
post Nov 15 2007, 09:20 PM
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Hey everyone:

Does anybody have any information about ZT Ali Baba (Moniet El Nafis x Imperial Al Ahab)? I understand he was an outstanding racehorse.

Is he still alive and breeding?

I have leased a granddaughter WH Special¹s Lily (WH Bodacious x RA Aneesa) x Z¹s Special T (ZT Ali Baba x Noblika). We are still looking for an additional SE mare but would like some information on this related line.

I¹m wondering if these bloodlines are good for an endurance prospect or if there are other get with performance background.

Marie
Windward Farm
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HLM
post Nov 15 2007, 11:32 PM
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Dear Marie

I knew Zt Ali Baba since he was ten months old and always liked him.
He foaled 3/7/1981 and died 10/25/2004.. He was bred by Count Zichy-thyssen and sold to Bill Waldron,Florida as a yearling when the Count took his horses to his ranch in Argentina.

He was about 15,3 hands tall, elegant, very beautiful and correct.
He raced 8 seasons- 68 or more times,won 18,13 seconds and 3 thirds.My records are not up to date on him, so there could be more races/wins..

Two of his Egyptian bred fillies I also knew in the flesh sold
for record prices.Victorias Secret brought $ 480.000 at the auction and her full sister Unchained Melody brought one million dollars at the auction. Both were bought by Sh Maktoum and stand undefeated in flat racing.
His total income through racing,sales etc is well over THREE MILLION DOLLARS.
His stud fee stood to the end ONLY at $ 3500.00.

He also produced race winners/champions such as BW Ali Catt, Izentespeshal ,Straight up, Live Wire, Born Hot, Nileator,Ruf N Nuff,
Mr Full Service, just to name a few. these are by and large Egyptian bred
offspring. Only a handfull of Straight Egyptians he produced. We own one of his last SE daughters, MB Fayala, an excellent mare who gave us a truly outstanding filly this year by AK Shah Munifeh. another one of those high flying machines with a georgeous head too, ha.

I told many breeders of this magnificent stallion in the past, to breed one of their mares to him, especially some of our well known large breeders. But they did not listen. Never looked at the accomplishment of this great stallion, a superb sire and sweet individual. a real "classic".

I also had his grandam "Soheir II" in my 1970 quarantine in Canada. she was bred by albadeia,Egypt and imported by Doug Marshall in 1970.She had piroplasmosis and The Canadian government wanted to return her to Egypt or I had to detroy her.My plea, literally on my knees, allowed us to keep her and treat her, if we promise to ttotally isolate her.
this made us build another indoor arena so that she could exercise. We treated for TWO YEARS AND again the titer came back positive. General Wayne Kester, a good old friend of mine and inspector at that time for the AHRa-imports- advised me that sometimes it can take 30 months before all becomes negative.

So I pleaded once more with my Canadian Government Agri Department on CHRISTMAS EVENING_- in the name of God to let her live and stay for more treatments with me. they agreed and allowed 3 more months. And by God's grace, the test then came back "Negative"..

I at once called Doug Marshall and he said "Hansi you may keep the mare as a gift, after what you went through and did for her? I replied" Doug I can not accept a such a valuable gift, this is your mare and for me a pleasure to have saved her life.

Soheir II was a substancial mare, excellent conformation, tremendous rearend and a "flying machine"..She was beautiful, unmistakenly "Arabian".

Soheir II foaled a filly at our quarantine premises by Gubran- on 8/31/1970. (Bint Soheir II)
I bred her to Khofo++ and she produced a good colt "Taarik" 2/10/1973, while still in my quarantine...
She was then sent home and bred by Gleannloch to Morafic" and produced the 1977 US Futurity Champion mare "Hebet Allah" in 1974. she also produced the champion Imperial Al Ahhab, total of NINE DAUGHTERS AND 5 SONS, after all she went through. Absolutely remarkable mare. I wiLL NEVER FORGET HER.

treasure these ZT Ali Baba offspring, they are hard to come by and many exported to the Middle east. Obviously THEY BREED TRUE TO FORM! HOw much some other breeders missed out on, eh! I guess they will never know.

I hope this will assist you a bit and make your day.

Hansi biggrin.gif
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moneer
post Nov 16 2007, 08:27 PM
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Hi Marie&Hansi

My mare grandmother is Imperial Al Ahab ,
My mare mother AHBABAA (RAMSIS EL DIN (GHALLAB)xImperial Al Ahab)
My mare name A.A Alabine by (LAHEEBxAHBABAA) When the 2007 ISRAELI NATIONAL RESERVE CHAMPION MARE , and she has i 2007 colt by SAFEEN (Ibn Safinaz) He is agreat colt and stronge body.

Best Regards
Moneer Abdel Hadi
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HLM
post Nov 16 2007, 11:22 PM
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Congrats dear Moneer, I guess genes dont lie.
Am a bit disapointed that Arabrider57 did not reply to my post. I had hoped I give him pleasure. May be is is out on the trails conditioning his horses.

Tell me my dear, are your horses under saddle? Can we hear more about them please? If they are, they should be doing well. I am a bit disapointed in Israely breeders, having fine stock and I never see anything under saddle on a photo or in records.why is this? I was told that Mr Sharon owns some 1500 acres, that for sure would make a great training farm.

Have a nice day
Hansi biggrin.gif
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BaileyArabians
post Nov 16 2007, 11:51 PM
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Well Hansi,

I didn't ask but I very much appreciated the information on ZT Ali Baba.
I knew you had a mare by him and that's great that she's producing well for you.


Kathy
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reidfm
post Nov 17 2007, 12:23 AM
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HI HANSI, Thank you so deeply for "saving" Soheir II", a fantastic contribution.
I raised and own HADIMA (by Soheir II's grandson - HADIDI) who is now in foal to Ansata Ken Rashik. When I bought *Thabit, you warned me that "he will KILL you"! I loved *Thabit's ride to much that I bought his only daughter and progressively bred progeny to Bay Halima > AK Ziyadeh > Hadidi. Best Wishes from Floyd Reid
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Marilee
post Nov 17 2007, 12:38 AM
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Dear Floyd------I am so glad you posted here. smile.gif I was going to ask you to write about your history in Arabians and your change to Egyptians on this website. Many here would love to hear your story of bloodlines, names, and dates of your horses as you emailed to me. This is like a family here--we do have our disagreements at times, but lots of people would like to know what you have owned in the past and who you had for what reason. We think AND feel about our horses. I so look forward to you and your wif'e's visit soon to Las Vegas and hope to go with you to see that horse. Regards, Marilee (another Egyptian horse admirer).
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HLM
post Nov 17 2007, 01:12 PM
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Dear Floyd

Wow, so nice to hear from you and you partici[pating on this forum. It's been a long time.

Tom McNair told me once that when he rode Thabit, he jumped over the fence into the crowd. He was a very beautiful horse, I really liked him, wanted to buy him in 1967 but was concerned about his erraticness and Tom's advice and therefore did not aquire him. You now say that he was a beautiful ride. Yes, he was an excellent mover. I knew you had his only daughter,an egyptian bred "Fazema" . Have you noticed any adverse behavior problems in her or her offspring? Mr Veselowski and Brian Bennett also owned Thabit for a while. May be they can commend more on the issue.
I have only relayed to you at that time what Tom's opinion and concern was.

He also had two Se sons, Al Dakar and Fahrad, both gelded. Anybody can tell us a bit about these two?

I hope you and your family are well and hopefully we meet again some day soon.

Best regards
Hansi biggrin.gif
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Cheryl L
post Nov 17 2007, 06:47 PM
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I have an email from Richard Veselovsky on his days with *Thabit and have his permission to share it with you:

I am surprised to hear that anyone would inquire about my beloved horse *Thabit. He was one of the most beautiful horses I have ever seen. I bought him from Floyd Reid and if I remembered correctly showed him to some success.I was aware of *Thabits reputation. I have no comment to make on *thabit before I owned him although I could make some comments if I wished. I will say this. Horses react differently to different owners and handlers. My ownership of *Thabit is one of the highlights of a long breeding career. I rode *thabit often ,he was my personal mount. I was never a great rider. One time I rolled off him. He stopped and came over to me and stood looking down and waited for me to get back up. He nursed me along. I enjoyed riding him very much.

When my cousin Brian Bennett expressed an interest in *thabit I decided to let Brian have him. He was an excellent rider, very accomplished and I knew he would ride *thabit and they would enjoy each other. I had decided not to ride anymore at that point.

*Thabit was a horse that doesn't come along often. The rest of my memories I will keep to myself."
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HLM
post Nov 17 2007, 07:11 PM
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Dear Cheryl

I really appreciate your disclosing Richard's findings. It is true, that horses react differently with different haendlers.Sometimes Tom was a abit too strict with some.
At that sime in 1967 I had little experiences with SES, just started out with then owning Khofo++. thabit then was about a 3 year old, but indeed a beautiful SE.
I am truly happy to hear these wonderful comments and coming from both these two horseman, it is instantly accepted by me. I still see Thabit infront of me.

Both Richard and Brian Bennet are oldtimer breeder/horsemen, I respect deeply.
Richard at one time also leased from us Serenity Osiris.When he came back he was in excellent condition. I did not know that Brian was Richard's cousin. It is rewarding to know that both arre still with us and continue breeding these wonderful SEs.

thanks again and best regards to both and you.

Hansi biggrin.gif
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reidfm
post Nov 17 2007, 10:05 PM
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Hi Hansi and Marilee, I am such a newbie to SE.com and so computer illiterate. I will try to get pics of *Thabit attached and send so experiences... it will be several days. Floyd Reid
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HLM
post Nov 17 2007, 10:18 PM
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Dear Floyd.

I am not but am computer illeterate and cant spell. Have the "spell" thing on it but only on my e-mail, dont know how to get it on here. So everybody has to put up with me.

Yes, Floyd, we need you on this forum, richard and Brian too. Us oldtimers can still give our experiences and advice or recommend based on the past.
Mind you, I learned so much from all our posters and I know that they are not my antique age, ha. Most of all we hear of the problems, the good things, and hear their thinking, their frustration of some, and much can be solved with us oldies pinching in. Its for the SEs mainly.

Bill Trap is also still with us, but not doing too well. Pat is doing better.
Just wish there were a body part shop I could visit, eh.

Take care and if in Florida come and be our gusest.

Big hugs
Hansi biggrin.gif
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moneer
post Nov 18 2007, 10:48 AM
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Dear Hansi

My mare As I told you the 2007 National Israeli champion reserve mare under saddle , see the attached file , The Foal 10 months old ( His photo at 3 months old) He will be also under saddle, he has a stronge body and great movement. some times , When saw him running I remeber Ali baba good races ,
What you say , genes dont lie

Attached please find 2 photos
for the Foal when He was 3 months and for my Mare A.A Alabina under saddle

Regards
Moneer Abdel Hadi
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HLM
post Nov 18 2007, 03:23 PM
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Good morning everybody

Dear Moneer

thank you for the photos and please forgive me I now had to laugh at my own
suggestion "under Saddle" What I mean by "under saddle" is "They are "Ridden".
I guess I made a mistake by not explaining properly and how many will just throw a saddle on a horse, and that is it.You see how phrases can be misunderstood.So tell us please, is this beautful mare of yours ridden?

the foal looks good to me too, just try to it not "Park out" behind. Park out means, hind legs not standing square. You should have a straight line from the point of the buttock straight down into the pastern/heel. than one can truly evaluate conformation.At my time judges would ask to stand the horse square on all four or refuse to judge it. So do veterinarins when evaluating a a horse. And so do I.

thanks again for those lovely photos and I wish you only the best. May be your beautiful champion mare will some day become a champion in a performance division. she looks to me if she could do it all.The way gasoline prices are going, you might even need her for transportation, right biggrin.gif Actually I would not mind at all if everybody now has to use their horses, because there is not more gasoline.
What a sight it would be eh?


Take care
Hansi biggrin.gif
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arabrider57
post Nov 19 2007, 01:34 AM
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HansI:

I have had to be out of pocket for a while and just now got back on line. this is wonderful information! I thank you for the heads up and apologise for my tardiness. ph34r.gif

It seems this thread has brought back many wonderful memories and we do treasure this mare even more now.

I will attempt to take a photo of her for you to see. From the pictures we were able to find in some of the older Arabaian horse worlds in our collection Lilly seems to favor ZT Ali Baba in many ways.

I want to read more on this thread and will post more later. thanks to all for your information smile.gif

Marie and Mark
Windward Farm
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