QUOTE (JacqueB @ Dec 18 2007, 04:21 PM)
I need a history lesson here.
What is Mu'niqiyah, Mu'iqui blood? I think I understand it to be a strain. If it is a strain, then what are the characteristics of that strain? Be sure and answer this question & be specific - no euphemisms.
Then Echo1 says the mares of that strain were bred to Turkomen stallions. And I'm guessing we don't know if all of the mares were bred to Turkomen stallion and what horses were not products of Mu'iqui/Turkomen blood? Then Echo1 describes an effort to save the strain from the influence of Turkomen blood by breeding it out to a functional degree over many generations, so these are included in the blue list horses?
Is Diane's point that any desert/asil horse may have Mu'iqui blood and therefore Turkomen blood if you go back far enough? Including the Abbas Pasha horses which is largely the basis for the PS definition of SE? and, of course, Blue Star horses?
Please understand I don't care what the answer is I just want to know what we know and don't know.... and taking the easy way out by asking here instead of going to the Middle East, digging in libraries, having all the books....
The Mu'iniqiyat is a strain, one of the classic strains, which was around for thousands of years.
However, a few hundred years ago, some of the Mu'niqi mares were mixed with the blood of Turkomen stallions by the Salqa and later the Mu'niqi of the Fi'dan.
But no, not all of the strains were bred to Turkomen as descibed by Diane. This is incorrect. Although it may appear that way when you look at history from the present time and then back, instead of looking at history in a chronological order. or from past to present.
As with all strains there are substrains.
The Mu'iniqi for example had the Mu'niqi had several....
The Davenport horses for example were of the Mu'niqi-Hadruj. Not mixed with Turkomen, and clearly we can see the difference in these horses as opposed to those who were mixed Turkomen and described as follows:
... a long, narrow, straight neck. The body type is known to be angular as opposed to rounded. In regards to type they were described as plain, sometimes coarse. Their most noteable characteristic was their speed.
The Fid'an mixed their Mu'niqi mares with the Mu'niqi mares of the Salqa which then caused Turcoman blood to seep into the Mu'niqi of the Fidan.
This is where the Mr. Darley got his horse, from the Fi'dan.
The Fi'dan chief told Mr. Darley that both parents of the colt he (darley) selected were of the Mu'niqi strain. This was true, but as we know strain reflects females and there was no mention of the Turkomen blood because it was through stallions that this blood got in there.
The combination of classic Mu'niqi to Turkomen stallions gave a new look, most often described as 'angular'. (described above).
In regards to Abbas Pasha...there were several 'related' strains to the Mu'niqi and the Abbas Pasha had Rabdan horses, and was unmixed with this Mu'niqi blood.
So no, not all strains were mixed with Turkomen. And not even all Mu'niqi were mixed with Turkomen.
So from a strict preservation point of view of 'when in doubt, leave it out'. Fanaticists worked in a three fold process to try to remedy the situation.
First, all NON-Mu'niqi were identified.(Blue Star) Then those who were Mu'niqi but not known to have been crossed into Turkomen stallions, were bred specificallly away from Mu'niqi influence and any 'angular type'(BLue List) And finally, after the phenotype was re-established to what the classic Mu'niqi was known to be, they went after the pedigree in that, the horses who resembled the classic Mu'niqi could be reintroduced back to other classic strains which were being preserved by the Blue Star and Blue List fanatics.
I'm trying my best to explain it as well as I understand what happened, but I'm not always the best to explain things.
What is important from how I see it, is that as breeders, we should be aware of this because all of this does help us very much in how to understand where certain looks come from, sometimes desirable and sometimes not. But there are keys found in history which are very helpful in making breeding decisions. It just depends upon how particular a breeder is and how much they want to consider when breeding SE horses.
I understand you think it is a 'past sell by date'. But you know, if I were you, and into racing horses, I'd really want to look for non-blue horses with alot of Mu'niqi. They were known for their speed. Just a thought. I hope you don't mind.
Or from an opposite point of view, if you have necks on a horse who are thin, flat, narrow, upside-down, and the horse is very angular, you might want to look at some Blue horses.
Not saying any of this is a complete and absolute fix, but it could be a step in the right direction or give someone an idea of where to look to try to fix what they are after.