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> Blue List And Blue Star, The difference?
Razzmatazz
post Dec 16 2007, 10:46 PM
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Could someone please explain what the difference is between Blue Star and Blue List? Are they a specific family or strain...? Can a horse be both, or only one or the other?

Thank you for your input,
Teresa
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BasiliskBelka
post Dec 21 2007, 01:42 PM
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Um - before anyone not familiar with Raswan aka Carl Schmidt starts thinking he is some kind of superhero, I suggest they read Mary Jane Parkinson's "Kellogg Ranch - the first 50 years".

For those who can't access a copy, here's the story in brief:

Schmidt came to England as WK Kellogg's agent to buy horses from Lady Wentworth. He misrepresented himself to Lady W, something she only realised later after corresponding with Kellogg. Lady W certainly gave the horse Raswan to Schmidt, but the horse was last transferred into Kellogg's ownership. After falling out with Kellogg, Schmidt decided to take Raswan and some other horses away from the Kellogg Ranch - without informing anyone of his intention. He took Raswan first and left the horse tied to a fence while we went back to fetch further animals. Evidently, he didn't tie the horse safely, as Raswan broke away and ran into the path of a horse-drawn hay mower, sustaining a terrible leg injury from the blades. The Kellogg Ranch staff took the horse back to the ranch and did eveerything they could to save him, but after considerable suffering, Raswan had to be put down. Kellogg then took Schmidt to court for his actions - and won.

Thus, Carl Schmidt was the sole cause of a completely avoidable accident that resulted in the terrible suffering and untimely death of the horse he 'loved so much'.

It should also be realised that Schmidt only spent a few years in the desert, within a limited circle of tribes. Thus, the knowledge he gained was necessarily circumscribed, as shown by his false pronouncements on white markings and blue eyes, to give just a couple of examples.

In contrast, Lady Anne Blunt spent the majority of her adult life in Arabia and/or Egypt, devoting herself to learning as much as she could about the Arabian horse and its background from every source available to her. She had access to the documentation amassed by Abbas Pasha as well as first-hand information from many tribes AND information from the Polish travellers in Arabia. Lady Anne was the first to admit that her early writings contained inaccuracies, and strove to correct errors. Sadly, the book she was writing on the Arabian horse was never finished, due to her death in 1917, though Lady Wentworth incorporated at least some of it into 'The Authentic Arabian'.

I am no advocate for Lady W, since it is known she was not above making facts fit her view of the world, rather than vice-versa, but she was able to draw on a far more comprehensive personal experience of the Arab in its countries of origin as well as her mother's writings, so one suspects that there may be more than a little truth in her view that Schmidt/Raswan traded on the relative ignorance of American breeders at the period to enhance his own standing beyond that which his knowledge justified.

Keren
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Posts in this topic
- Razzmatazz   Blue List And Blue Star   Dec 16 2007, 10:46 PM
- - reidfm   The Blue Arabian Horse Catalog -- Jane Llewellyn O...   Dec 16 2007, 11:43 PM
- - diane   QUOTE (reidfm @ Dec 17 2007, 09:43 AM)The Blu...   Dec 17 2007, 01:35 AM
- - Razzmatazz   Can you please explain the issue with Muniqi? Why ...   Dec 17 2007, 01:36 PM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (diane @ Dec 17 2007, 02:35 AM)Its unde...   Dec 17 2007, 02:30 PM
- - diane   QUOTE (Echo1 @ Dec 18 2007, 12:30 AM)untrue ...   Dec 17 2007, 10:27 PM
- - diane   QUOTE (Razzmatazz @ Dec 17 2007, 11:36 PM)Can...   Dec 17 2007, 10:29 PM
- - Bandit   If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it,...   Dec 17 2007, 10:55 PM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (diane @ Dec 17 2007, 11:29 PM)The gene...   Dec 18 2007, 12:36 AM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (reidfm @ Dec 17 2007, 12:43 AM)The Blu...   Dec 18 2007, 12:38 AM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (Bandit @ Dec 17 2007, 11:55 PM)If a tr...   Dec 18 2007, 12:39 AM
- - diane   QUOTE (Bandit @ Dec 18 2007, 08:55 AM)If a tr...   Dec 18 2007, 02:53 AM
- - Bandit   QUOTE (Echo1 @ Dec 17 2007, 06:39 PM)A tree l...   Dec 18 2007, 03:13 AM
- - JoeFerriss   I am just saying this off the top of my head witho...   Dec 18 2007, 04:10 AM
- - diane   QUOTE (Echo1 @ Dec 18 2007, 10:39 AM)A tree l...   Dec 18 2007, 04:42 AM
- - Nadj al Nur   Diane.......just to play the devil's advocate,...   Dec 18 2007, 06:53 AM
- - diane   QUOTE (Nadj al Nur @ Dec 18 2007, 04:53 PM)Di...   Dec 18 2007, 07:03 AM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (Bandit @ Dec 18 2007, 04:13 AM)Well su...   Dec 18 2007, 01:34 PM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (diane @ Dec 18 2007, 05:42 AM)... the ...   Dec 18 2007, 01:44 PM
- - Bandit   QUOTE (Echo1 @ Dec 18 2007, 07:34 AM)When con...   Dec 18 2007, 02:04 PM
- - Echo1   Joe Ferriss, Thank you for your post. It solidifi...   Dec 18 2007, 02:34 PM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (Bandit @ Dec 18 2007, 03:04 PM)Well yo...   Dec 18 2007, 02:41 PM
- - JacqueB   I need a history lesson here. What is Mu'niqiy...   Dec 18 2007, 03:21 PM
- - Bandit   I doubt going to the middle east would get you any...   Dec 18 2007, 10:54 PM
- - JacqueB   Hi Bandit, Let me add that I'm new to SE/deser...   Dec 18 2007, 11:54 PM
- - Bandit   QUOTE (JacqueB @ Dec 18 2007, 05:54 PM)So Ban...   Dec 19 2007, 12:19 AM
- - Marilee   We are all learning. I love Mr. Ferriss's way...   Dec 19 2007, 12:30 AM
- - diane   QUOTE (Echo1 @ Dec 18 2007, 11:44 PM)You...   Dec 19 2007, 02:21 AM
- - diane   QUOTE (JacqueB @ Dec 19 2007, 01:21 AM)What i...   Dec 19 2007, 02:32 AM
- - Bandit   QUOTE (diane @ Dec 18 2007, 08:21 PM)To follo...   Dec 19 2007, 03:08 AM
- - BasiliskBelka   IMO, the whole Blue Star thing is of questionable ...   Dec 19 2007, 02:07 PM
- - BasiliskBelka   With regard to the Caspian Horse (*not* pony - it ...   Dec 19 2007, 02:10 PM
- - JoeFerriss   I tend to think that the preservation of the deser...   Dec 19 2007, 03:01 PM
- - diane   quote:Joe Ferriss Dec 20 2007, 01:01 AM I tend to ...   Dec 19 2007, 10:36 PM
- - JacqueB   Thanks Joe for your post. And thanks Diane for hig...   Dec 19 2007, 11:18 PM
- - Kimberli Nelson   If nothing else is said, it must be noted that the...   Dec 19 2007, 11:21 PM
- - Marilee   Dear jb: You should get a gold star for asking al...   Dec 19 2007, 11:22 PM
- - diane   QUOTE (Kimberli Nelson @ Dec 20 2007, 09:21 A...   Dec 20 2007, 12:09 AM
- - diane   JacqueB, Dec 20 2007, 09:18 AM writes: And thanks ...   Dec 20 2007, 12:33 AM
- - JacqueB   Well Diane, I discovered you edit - thanks. Part o...   Dec 20 2007, 12:53 AM
- - JacqueB   Thanks Diane, So the Mu'niqi is associated wit...   Dec 20 2007, 01:18 AM
- - Kimberli Nelson   Thank you Diane, Having been involved with the Ar...   Dec 20 2007, 01:29 AM
- - Seglavi   Kim, You said an eloquent mouthful! Go girl...   Dec 20 2007, 04:08 AM
- - diane   my pleasure. Its slippery thwang to catch. It he...   Dec 20 2007, 04:33 AM
- - BeckyHuffman   QUOTE (Razzmatazz @ Dec 16 2007, 11:46 PM)Cou...   Dec 20 2007, 04:54 AM
- - BeckyHuffman   >>Personally, I feel the entire 'Blue...   Dec 20 2007, 05:01 AM
- - anitae   Hello to all who have the courage to enter into th...   Dec 20 2007, 06:40 AM
- - diane   QUOTE (anitae @ Dec 20 2007, 04:40 PM)For me,...   Dec 20 2007, 07:00 AM
- - JacqueB   Good Morning Diane, It's extremely valuable to...   Dec 20 2007, 01:29 PM
- - JoeFerriss   JacqueB, I want to thank you for your original que...   Dec 20 2007, 02:38 PM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (JacqueB @ Dec 18 2007, 04:21 PM)I need...   Dec 20 2007, 03:00 PM
- - JacqueB   Ahh Joe, Went to the AHA arabdatasource and they...   Dec 20 2007, 03:25 PM
- - Bandit   Arey you having fun yet JacqueB? . Im having a b...   Dec 20 2007, 03:55 PM
- - JacqueB   You know, I've been thinking, "why don...   Dec 20 2007, 03:59 PM
- - Nadj al Nur   Actually, some of Raswan's books are very avai...   Dec 20 2007, 04:21 PM
- - Bandit   I guess I should of said "some" of Raswa...   Dec 20 2007, 04:32 PM
- - JoeFerriss   QUOTE (JacqueB @ Dec 20 2007, 04:25 PM)Ahh Jo...   Dec 20 2007, 05:53 PM
- - BasiliskBelka   What I meant by the Blue Catalogue being 'past...   Dec 20 2007, 06:26 PM
- - Jenny Lees   QUOTE (Bandit @ Dec 18 2007, 11:54 PM)I doubt...   Dec 20 2007, 06:35 PM
- - Jenny Lees   QUOTE (anitae @ Dec 20 2007, 07:40 AM)For me,...   Dec 20 2007, 06:50 PM
- - 2mntn   Hello JoeFerriss, Yes, it is too bad that *Ibn Ha...   Dec 20 2007, 07:01 PM
- - Tous crins   QUOTE (2mntn @ Dec 20 2007, 11:01 AM)Hello Jo...   Dec 20 2007, 07:03 PM
- - 2mntn   Hi Jenny, I am hearing of US horses being exporte...   Dec 20 2007, 07:04 PM
- - Jenny Lees   QUOTE (2mntn @ Dec 20 2007, 08:04 PM)Hi Jenny...   Dec 20 2007, 07:46 PM
- - Bandit   Im gonna get it right in a minute. Finally: http...   Dec 20 2007, 07:55 PM
- - curtislt   Ray, I have an Almileegy++ granddaughter and have...   Dec 20 2007, 07:58 PM
- - JacqueB   Cathy, I think we'll have to give a nod to Dia...   Dec 20 2007, 08:12 PM
- - 2mntn   Curt - thanks so much for the photo of Almileegy++...   Dec 20 2007, 08:31 PM
- - Nadj al Nur   I think that it is the Hamdan influence that I lik...   Dec 20 2007, 08:46 PM
- - Jenny Lees   QUOTE (Bandit @ Dec 20 2007, 08:55 PM)Im gonn...   Dec 20 2007, 10:31 PM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (diane @ Dec 19 2007, 03:21 AM)To follo...   Dec 21 2007, 12:35 AM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (diane @ Dec 20 2007, 01:33 AM)It must,...   Dec 21 2007, 01:29 AM
- - JacqueB   Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Echo1, I've been...   Dec 21 2007, 01:57 AM
- - 2mntn   Hello Echo1, Sorry, I didn't mean to take thi...   Dec 21 2007, 02:23 AM
- - BeckyHuffman   Wow! This forum has been busy today. re: th...   Dec 21 2007, 02:25 AM
- - BeckyHuffman   I'm afraid I'm confused by the discussion ...   Dec 21 2007, 02:31 AM
- - BeckyHuffman   QUOTE (diane @ Dec 20 2007, 08:00 AM)From her...   Dec 21 2007, 02:42 AM
- - diane   QUOTE (diane @ Dec 20 2007, 10:33 AM)From the...   Dec 21 2007, 03:05 AM
- - diane   QUOTE (BeckyHuffman @ Dec 21 2007, 12:25 PM)D...   Dec 21 2007, 03:08 AM
- - diane   Joe - thank you for the candid images of Ibn Hafiz...   Dec 21 2007, 04:41 AM
- - Tous crins   There are quite a few pictures of Muniquis taken b...   Dec 21 2007, 05:42 AM
- - JacqueB   thanks Tous Crins, for that link, also had a list ...   Dec 21 2007, 01:05 PM
- - BeckyHuffman   Wouldn't it be nice if the world was cleanly d...   Dec 21 2007, 02:27 PM
- - Tous crins   QUOTE (JacqueB @ Dec 21 2007, 05:05 AM)thanks...   Dec 21 2007, 04:42 PM
- - JacqueB   No Christine, didn't make it to the west coast...   Dec 21 2007, 05:24 PM
- - Tous crins   QUOTE (JacqueB @ Dec 21 2007, 09:24 AM)No Chr...   Dec 21 2007, 05:34 PM
- - JacqueB   Christine, Do you speak Dutch? jb   Dec 21 2007, 05:58 PM
- - Tous crins   QUOTE (JacqueB @ Dec 21 2007, 09:58 AM)Christ...   Dec 21 2007, 06:31 PM
- - diane   Becky writes: Wouldn't it be nice if the world...   Dec 22 2007, 09:35 AM
- - JacqueB   Good Morning Christine, My husband was working in ...   Dec 22 2007, 11:42 AM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (BeckyHuffman @ Dec 21 2007, 03:31 AM)I...   Dec 22 2007, 02:47 PM
- - JacqueB   Thanks Echo1, for your explanation. I was thinkin...   Dec 22 2007, 04:01 PM
- - Bandit   QUOTE (Echo1 @ Dec 22 2007, 08:47 AM)Hi Becky...   Dec 22 2007, 04:37 PM
- - Jenny Lees   QUOTE (Bandit @ Dec 20 2007, 08:55 PM)Im gonn...   Dec 22 2007, 05:12 PM
- - Echo1   QUOTE (Bandit @ Dec 22 2007, 05:37 PM)I see b...   Dec 22 2007, 11:08 PM
- - Bandit   Of course I agree with you Echo. I hope it could ...   Dec 23 2007, 12:59 AM
- - BeckyHuffman   Echo1 said: However, what is interesting, is that ...   Dec 23 2007, 01:16 AM
- - BeckyHuffman   QUOTE (Echo1 @ Dec 23 2007, 12:08 AM)Hi Bandi...   Dec 23 2007, 01:28 AM
- - diane   I can relate to the gist of the conversations so f...   Dec 23 2007, 01:30 AM
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