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> Blue List And Blue Star, The difference?
vclink
post Feb 20 2012, 02:29 AM
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Hansi, Ray, Ralph, Liz, Kathy, Caryn...It's Groundhog Day! Yes, It's Groundhog Day! I never thought I would see this day again.

ph34r.gif For those who don't understand this reference, go rent the Bill Murray movie. LOL!



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2mntn
post Feb 20 2012, 02:30 AM
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QUOTE (Lil Buddha @ Feb 19 2012, 06:47 PM) *
I object to the comment that the Blue Catalog is irrelevant, because it was unfinished. That's how this whole thing started. But you didn't make this comment, so, what business is it to you anyway?


Your "objection" looked fairly general in nature to me, as I didn't notice anything specific like this new comment. I agree with your "restated" objection. In theory, the Blue Catalog would never be "finished", as long as horses are being born which fit the description. The Blue Catalog would be irrelevant to those who do not understand the basis of the work done. That said, the Blue Catalog is not something I feel is necessary for me to have at hand, because the online resources of Al Khamsa and AHA's Datasource cover all the same material and are both online. Plus, I don't feel that the distinction of the "Mu'niqi" is entirely correct, or even worthwhile to try to keep track of.
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MHuprich
post Feb 20 2012, 02:33 AM
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QUOTE (vclink @ Feb 19 2012, 09:29 PM) *
Hansi, Ray, Ralph, Liz, Kathy, Caryn...It's Groundhog Day! Yes, It's Groundhog Day! I never thought I would see this day again.

ph34r.gif For those who don't understand this reference, go rent the Bill Murray movie. LOL!


Exactly.
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2mntn
post Feb 20 2012, 02:39 AM
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QUOTE (Lil Buddha @ Feb 19 2012, 07:16 PM) *
....

As for the insinuation that you made regardihg the quality of the horse and the "two hundred bucks", the horse belonged to the General's daughter. He was a wedding present. I believe (off the top of my head) that it was wartime and the General figured that his daughter didn't need the horse, so he sold him. But that doesn't mean that the horse was inferior, as a matter of fact Hallany Mistanny appeared in the Travelers Rest catalog, described as a "strinking " horse. So, to me and because of the pics that I have seen, the horse must have really been something...a treasure of Egypt in America.


Any "insinuation" I made had to do with a possible lack of material between the breeder's ears, (especially since that breeding was never repeated) and had nothing to do with the horse. smile.gif

p.s. I know the story of Hallany Mistanny and how he ended up with Howie Marks.
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Lil Buddha
post Feb 20 2012, 02:43 AM
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QUOTE (vclink @ Feb 20 2012, 03:29 AM) *
Hansi, Ray, Ralph, Liz, Kathy, Caryn...It's Groundhog Day! Yes, It's Groundhog Day! I never thought I would see this day again.

ph34r.gif For those who don't understand this reference, go rent the Bill Murray movie. LOL!


I give up
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Nadj al Nur
post Feb 20 2012, 02:47 AM
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QUOTE (vclink @ Feb 19 2012, 06:29 PM) *
Hansi, Ray, Ralph, Liz, Kathy, Caryn...It's Groundhog Day! Yes, It's Groundhog Day! I never thought I would see this day again.

ph34r.gif For those who don't understand this reference, go rent the Bill Murray movie. LOL!

Seems sorta like a train wreck that you can't quit watching tho........right ?
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Caryn Rogosky
post Feb 20 2012, 02:47 AM
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Amongst the most respected scholars of this breed are people who are not specifically known for what they have done as breeders -- but their contribution to the Asil Arabian horse community is immeasurable.
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MHuprich
post Feb 20 2012, 03:13 AM
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You don't have to have bred horses or trained them to be a great researcher or judge of horses. Lots of examples: Gladys Brown Edwards probably the most welll-known. Peter Cameron did not breed Arabians either and was a very well respected judge.
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JoeFerriss
post Feb 20 2012, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE (Avalondales Egyptian Arabians @ Feb 19 2012, 07:36 PM) *
What is gone is gone and can only be lamented... There are small pockets of interesting and rare breeding that is being overlooked and underused..

Ralph... Did your list change a bit? The list I copied was Bint Serra I, Sirecho, Hamida, Hamama, Zarife, Roda, Aziza, Nasr, Fadl, Maaroufa, Ibn Hafiza, El Araby, Mahmouda, Mahdia...

Bint Serra I-has a blunt element... As does El Araby and Mahdia.. Hallany Mistanny was added in and is 100% Egypt... Personally, The Blue Catalogue is an incomplete work and as such at best can be looked at as a starting point...

I do think there should be a database for all these rare outcross potentials to be featured.. I believe Liz Dieter mentioned there was a Zobeyni sire line stallion in Canada... I wouldn't mind getting my hands on some more information regarding this stallion..We can only work with what is available today... Everything else is coulda, shoulda, woulda... Tracy


..as an enhancement on the above comment, the Zobeyni sire line does still exist in straight Egyptian bloodlines. I have charted it twice in articles in the Arabian Horse World and again in the newest Volume 12 of the Pyramid Society Reference Handbook. There are still a handful of stallion choices for the Zobeyni sire line but it is fragile and could be lost if not given careful consideration which would be a shame since it has long been one of the most celebrated in the Arabian breed coming down particularly from Mesaoud.

I offer the Zobeyni chart here. Please note that I think there are some younger sons of some horses listed in this chart which can also be found but these names in the attached will at least give a general overview of the sire line now and perhaps you can do your search to locate some of these horses.

Best to all,
--Joe Ferriss

Attached File  Zobeyni_Sire_Line.pdf ( 354.65K ) Number of downloads: 178
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JoeFerriss
post Feb 20 2012, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Feb 19 2012, 10:35 PM) *
Ralph's depth of knowledge on Egyptian Arabian horse bloodlines is remarkable, and so noted by some of the most respected scholars of our time.
Ralph was kind enough to donate a booklet, compiled of his articles and photos from his blog, to Al Khamsa for the live autction held at the convention in September. Joe Ferriss was the highest bidder and winner.There were others bidding who were very eager to have it as well, but it was very evident that Joe was quite dertermined and the other bidders backed off. Ralph, you should consider that a well deserved tribute to your many, many years of study and dedication to the Egyptian Arabian horse.


I do admire and collect and read written works of Ralph just as I do with others such as Hansi who I believe I have all of her books. However to be accurate, when I realized that someone else also wanted very much Ralph's book in the live Auction at the Al Khamsa convention, I stopped bidding because I did not want to take away someone's opportunity to have this work.
--Joe Ferriss
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Avalondales Egyp...
post Feb 20 2012, 01:00 PM
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QUOTE (JoeFerriss @ Feb 20 2012, 12:36 PM) *
..as an enhancement on the above comment, the Zobeyni sire line does still exist in straight Egyptian bloodlines. I have charted it twice in articles in the Arabian Horse World and again in the newest Volume 12 of the Pyramid Society Reference Handbook. There are still a handful of stallion choices for the Zobeyni sire line but it is fragile and could be lost if not given careful consideration which would be a shame since it has long been one of the most celebrated in the Arabian breed coming down particularly from Mesaoud.

I offer the Zobeyni chart here. Please note that I think there are some younger sons of some horses listed in this chart which can also be found but these names in the attached will at least give a general overview of the sire line now and perhaps you can do your search to locate some of these horses.

Best to all,
--Joe Ferriss

Attached File  Zobeyni_Sire_Line.pdf ( 354.65K ) Number of downloads: 178


Thanks Joe... I appreciate it...
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Dieter
post Feb 20 2012, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Feb 19 2012, 09:47 PM) *
Amongst the most respected scholars of this breed are people who are not specifically known for what they have done as breeders -- but their contribution to the Asil Arabian horse community is immeasurable.
Yes, but when Ralph accused Hansi of not doing enough to preserve *Ibn Hafiza, then he should perhaps accuse himself at the same time, particularly if he has not bred or otherwise preserved him. Don't you agree? In response to what you've written, above which had nothing to do with the context of my post:

I also disagree with your statement on some levels as I believe a good researcher doesn't just write flowery statements about every horse they decide to write about. They would be factual and be able to think critically as well as romantically. But it is difficult and not a popular thing for people to like and support researchers who will say "that National Champion or Supreme Champion has the worst legs I've ever seen" and then expand on that thought. As soon as that researcher makes that statement, everyone feels sorry for the owner of that horse and everyone gangs up against the researcher who was being honest and not flowery or romantic or otherwise bellowing sunshine where clouds exist. Most importantly, it's all good and fine to judge horses and write about them, but until you put that research to test and begin to breed them, you have no idea if the horses you are judging are all what they've been cracked up to be. So, to me, being a researcher and a breeder lends more credibility to their opinions.
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Dieter
post Feb 20 2012, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (MHuprich @ Feb 19 2012, 10:13 PM) *
You don't have to have bred horses or trained them to be a great researcher or judge of horses. Lots of examples: Gladys Brown Edwards probably the most welll-known. Peter Cameron did not breed Arabians either and was a very well respected judge.
This may not be directed at my post, but I will say again, "Yes, but when Ralph accused Hansi of not doing enough to preserve *Ibn Hafiza, then he should perhaps accuse himself at the same time, particularly if he has not bred or otherwise preserved him." Ralph did not accuse any of his friends who have posted here and not preserving this blood, just Hansi.

What a compliment you gave Ralph by elevating him to the same category as Gladys Edwards and Pete Cameron. I would not bestow that elevated position to Ralph, though he is a somewhat successful, romantically inspired writer. That's my opinion and I believe I am entitled to it.

I also disagree with your statement on some levels as I believe a good researcher doesn't just write flowery statements about every horse they decide to write about. They would be factual and be able to think critically as well as romantically. But it is difficult and not a popular thing for people to like and support researchers who will say "that National Champion or Supreme Champion has the worst legs I've ever seen" and then expand on that thought. As soon as that researcher makes that statement, everyone feels sorry for the owner of that horse and everyone gangs up against the researcher who was being honest and not flowery or romantic or otherwise bellowing sunshine where clouds exist. Most importantly, it's all good and fine to judge horses and write about them, but until you put that research to test and begin to breed them, you have no idea if the horses you are judging are all what they've been cracked up to be. So, to me, being a researcher and a breeder lends more credibility to their opinions.
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HLM
post Feb 20 2012, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Feb 20 2012, 12:57 AM) *
1998 was a long tme ago...time does not stand still. My facts come from the original source; they were acquired first hand from discussion and observation, while sitting at the EAO and asking about certain lines -- and seeing the Blue Catalog being referenced for information. I'm sorry, but I did not see any copies of your Straight Egyptian Index volumes there, neither in the office nor in the library although we spent many hours scouring the shelves. That's not to say they weren't there, but if they were, they weren't evident.



Very well, I was not present at your discussions. Dr Khalil was given personally by me a complete set of my straight Egyptian Index for the EAO. Prior to that they received two sets. Possibly these ended up in some people's private library? Did you infact see a copy of the Blue Catalogue at the EAO?

While at the eAO did you have a chance to look at their herd books, starting with breeding dates of 1966?

Hansi

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HLM
post Feb 20 2012, 02:09 PM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Feb 20 2012, 02:47 PM) *
This may not be directed at my post, but I will say again, "Yes, but when Ralph accused Hansi of not doing enough to preserve *Ibn Hafiza, then he should perhaps accuse himself at the same time, particularly if he has not bred or otherwise preserved him." Ralph did not accuse any of his friends who have posted here and not preserving this blood, just Hansi.

What a compliment you gave Ralph by elevating him to the same category as Gladys Edwards and Pete Cameron. I would not bestow that elevated position to Ralph, though he is a somewhat successful, romantically inspired writer. That's my opinion and I believe I am entitled to it.

I also disagree with your statement on some levels as I believe a good researcher doesn't just write flowery statements about every horse they decide to write about. They would be factual and be able to think critically as well as romantically. But it is difficult and not a popular thing for people to like and support researchers who will say "that National Champion or Supreme Champion has the worst legs I've ever seen" and then expand on that thought. As soon as that researcher makes that statement, everyone feels sorry for the owner of that horse and everyone gangs up against the researcher who was being honest and not flowery or romantic or otherwise bellowing sunshine where clouds exist. Most importantly, it's all good and fine to judge horses and write about them, but until you put that research to test and begin to breed them, you have no idea if the horses you are judging are all what they've been cracked up to be. So, to me, being a researcher and a breeder lends more credibility to their opinions.



Hi Liz

I agree with you. Referring to Pete cameron, he is not only one of the best judges of equine, was also an ardent rider
and horseman.

Gladys Brown Edwards and I were friends for many years, and she was my guest of honor in Ocala in the 1980ties at one of my sales .
Indeed she never has been on a horse, only had a "rocking horse" as a child but was an ardent researcher, excelling with the polish lines. Poland, of course paid her, and so did Lasma, as I undersood it from her.

Of course it helps when one has driven many cars, to evaluate one or the other, just like with horses.

Liz, there is a group named "the ugly seven", and they will never stop. Its their character, and their contribution to the SE/Asils etc is very, very little, other than a lot of talk. When we go back in history we can see what original importers did, accomplished. I guess their names will always stay in the minds and be furthered on for references.
These were reputable, honest pople who gave more than they ever asked to received. Even todate we have researchers in our midth, here and abroad, who are ardent horsemen/women and contributed and sacrificed a lot.
I never once heard any of them issuing disrespectful statements or exagerated, forged or lied. They also can substantiate any statment they made, as I can. So do you. Most of all they all are able to stand corrected when new or better data is placed by some and appreciate "the messengers" rather than shooting them to protect their own motives or interest.

There is nothing wrong with being romantic, however it has to be understood in such light. However, it does not belong in the breeding shed. One should rather think that the Arabian horse is the progenator of most all warmblood breeds.

Take care
Hansi
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