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> Why Are Some Of Us So Particular, about halter classes
kay cochran
post Mar 2 2008, 08:25 PM
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dearest hansi, halter classes are the downfall of all species whether it be chickens, dogs, cats, cattle, or horses. show chickens are notorious for their inability to lay eggs, show cattle can't hold their weight on pasture or give enough milk to feed their calves, show dogs have various genetic defects, and the same can be said for horses. are we going to have a separate bloodline just for halter like the quarter horses or would it be better to look back at our history and see the kind of horses john rogers raised that could perform like an arab not like a saddlebred. i for one would prefer to kick these people over to purebred saddlebreds and let the natural movement of our arabs speak for itself. is that why most people fell in love with the arab in the first place, because of their natural beauty? do you think you can improve on something God created? evidently that is what a lot of trainers are doing. look at the early show pictures of some of the stallions when they were younger, can you recognize them now in pasture condition as compared to their early years of showing in halter? some of them you can't. it is sad. i think that is why a lot of people are leaving the breed , they can't compete with the amount of money it takes to condition a halter horse. gone are the days when you could take your horse from pasture to halter and win. we took a mare from our pasture to fill a halter class to help out entries and won grand champion mare of the show, without sweating her neck to death and working her for hours in a round ring. she was naturally correct, naturally beautiful, and had the attitude to show. now that is the kind of arabs i like. NATURAL NOW GO OUT THERE AND HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY!
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Mr Prospector
post Mar 3 2008, 10:18 AM
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Lisa

What a lovely old stallion. He just is so beautiful. The first thing I notice about any horse is the hindquarter. This stallion has such a well defined hindquarter, he made me smile as soon as I saw him. I bet he is a real power mover when ridden. I bet you feel safe riding him too, with a hindquarter like that. He has a good slope of shoulder which is good too. He just exudes masculinity which as a mare owner I look for in a stallion. I have seen a few "girlie" stallions that make me laugh. At his age the little crestiness in his neck is normal in a breeding animal. His head - his head is so, so lovely. So classical and old fashioned. He is just what a real Arabian stallion should look like.

When I move to QLD next year, would you mind terribly if I came by to see this guy in person? I would love to know his name. You have a real treasure with him.

Cheers
Karen
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Robert 1
post Mar 3 2008, 12:24 PM
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Hi Hansi,
Perhaps this may be a bit off the subject but, after all you are asking about what people think about the SE horse. biggrin.gif
How do you and others feel about white on the SE horse, like a large white face, blaze, over and under the lips, white legs, hoofs.
One of the reasons I ask this is not how preety or unpretty it looks but, because of the riding,, are white faces and legs and hoofs less disireable, do they cause more problems riding or shoeing their feet.
Also about stallions or mares that constantly produce the same white markings and how much is too much or does it not matter? unsure.gif
Robert,
Echo Hill Arabians, USA
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Guest_USAMAH ALKAZEMI_*
post Mar 3 2008, 01:03 PM
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DEAR HANSI,
IF I CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION blink.gif KNOWING THAT I AM NOT A BIG FAN OF HALTER SHOWS PER SE,
THEN I THINK THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT SUCH SHOWS IN DIFFERENT WAYS wink.gif SOME GO BECAUSE THEY CAN FIND A GOOD CROWD TO SPEND SOME NICE TIME TALKING ABOUT THEIR HORSES,GETTING TO KNOW,HOPEFULLY,SOME LEARNED PEOPLE TO INCREASE THEIR KNOWLEDGE wink.gif SOME WILL GO FOR THE LOVE TOBE IN A CROWD AND ENJOYING FOOD AND THE SHOW AND HOPEFULLY TO MEASURE HOW GOOD ARE THEIR HORSES COMPARED TO THE ONES SHOWN AS WELL AS CATCHINGUP WITH WHAT CAN WIN AND WHAT CANNOT biggrin.gif SOME WILL GO TO BE THE PROUD OWNERS OF THE CHAMPIONS,COLLECT PRIZES AND RECOGNITION THAT THEY ARE RICH ENOUGH TO BUY THAT,PRESUMABLY CHAMPIONS,AT WHATEVER PRICE laugh.gif SOME WILL GO TO PROMOTE THEIR HORSES AND MANY WILL GO BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif tongue.gif
THE WAY SHOWS ARE CARRIED AT THE MOMENT,IT SEEMS THAT ONLY THE ONES WHO ARE PAYING THE CROWD TO ATTEND THEIR PRIVATE SHOWS ARE GETTING MOST OF IT ph34r.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif cool.gif
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HLM
post Mar 3 2008, 01:31 PM
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Goodmorning everybody

Robert, I never took a dislike to white markings, provided they were not overwhelming.The Straight EGyptians through the Crabet lines basically carry sometimes a lot. I do not like white going into the knees or hocks. Serenity Horses do not have such markings, may be a stocking once,blazes on 2-3,over all these years. Many have none other than a little star. I saw many Syrian horses having white markings on their legs, some actually quite high up in private stables. Did not see that much on the horses presented out in the desert by the Bedus..

Gladys Brown Edwards used to say it should have some white to pretty things up. And it does look lovely on a chesnut or a bay, while we cant see it on a grey, except on its nose or chin. I dont think it is "colour" which makes a good or bad horse. Just my opinion. I like seeing a white diagonal, that looks lovely to me, espcially in a "trot" on a chestnut or bay..

Hansi biggrin.gif
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HLM
post Mar 3 2008, 01:57 PM
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Dear Usamah

this is how I see it too. But is this not a shame? Halter classes are "Breeding" classes, not model classes.

I used to show everyone of our horses at halter and all became champions or multiple champions,.But they also were under saddle winning. Khofo++ produced over 150 championships and is Sire and Grandsire of over 40 National and Res. Natl.champions internationally. I believe no other Se stallion has accomplished this so far. And he was my best SE stud under saddle, doing anything I ask,dressage,jumping,racing and halter showing.

Gleannloch and others did the same, that's what made the SE;s so famous and many a rider from other breeds changed over to SEs, as I did, and never once regretted it or looked back. Neither have many of my collegues. I am right now ground working four of our young ones- 3-4 years olds, and I tell you Usamah, this is a heavenly pleasure, something I pray I never have to give up. Yet each one would hold their own in a halter class, having such flawless conformation and such excellent movement. I know there are many like it in the ownership of our smaller breeders, and it is those who will this beautiful sub-species going.

Mind you, very few countries do what you and I and many others might not like, the rest of the world uses common sense as we do, and even in the UAE you see these halter horses going into performance,so do most all other Middle East countries, and may be not so much in yours and Qatar, other than on the race track.

If people want what you and I see, may be it should be just an exhibition.
But dont worry Usamah, this soon will be over, people can be fooled only for so long. So let them show against each other and then the one-eye becomes the king among the blind. Let those interested continue to breed garden ornaments, toys, if that is their pleasure. Let them pay these huge prices for something may be worth a fraction because we say here "a fool and his money are soon parted".

I also know of some people who would never sell one of their horses to garden ornament producers/buyers, they rather starve to death first, that includes us.

Take care
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
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Echo1
post Mar 3 2008, 03:23 PM
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Halter shows are fun, they are nice to attend, for many of the reasons which Usamah has explained. I always have a good time meeting other people and being around horses. What could be more fun? biggrin.gif But for me personally, breeding and raising good horses is a more serious endeavor than simply having a good time. I don't believe they prove anything other than who had the prettiest horse "on that day in that particular group of horses." Although a halter win will tell you that you 'might have something worthy of further consideration." I like to see more put that same halter winner in performance training, let him race, or enter endurance,where it is non subjective, no judges, just horses competing against other horses. Let the horses judge each other and see who comes out on top. Breed him, and see what he can produce. Does his offspring have the ability to produce well, or is he just a partial reflection of the sire? Then...we'll see who has what. There is much more credibility and prestige when the horse can do all the talking. biggrin.gif
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HLM
post Mar 3 2008, 03:49 PM
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Dear Kelly

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hansi biggrin.gif
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Jenny Lees
post Mar 3 2008, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Echo1 @ Mar 3 2008, 04:23 PM)
Halter shows are fun, they are nice to attend, for many of the reasons which Usamah has explained.  I always have a good time meeting other people and being around horses. What could be more fun?  biggrin.gif  But for me personally, breeding and raising good horses is a more serious endeavor than simply having a good time. I don't believe they prove anything other than who had the prettiest horse "on that day in that particular group of horses." Although a halter win will tell you that you 'might have something worthy of further consideration."  I like to see more put that same halter winner in performance training, let him race, or enter endurance,where it is non subjective, no judges, just horses competing against other horses.  Let the horses judge each other and see who comes out on top.  Breed him, and see what he can produce. Does his offspring have the ability to produce well, or is he just a partial reflection of the sire? Then...we'll see who has what. There is much more credibility and prestige when the horse can do all the talking.  biggrin.gif
*

gbfahne.gif Halter classes are perfect for taking young future Endurance horses along to. They can have some really scary times and get used to crowds and other horses all yelling and screaming, so that when you present them for their first vet check on their first ride...they are 'cool man' cool.gif cool.gif and it is great fun watching the judges faces when you stand them up in a relaxed four square pose. My daughter in law took one of our colts into a class at our National Show and stood him up four square, the judge waited and said nothing, then waited some more, finally he said to Amanda "stand him up" she looked at him bewildered blink.gif blink.gif and said "he is standing up" . So they were then sent to the bottom of the line but the horse is now an Advanced Endurance stallion and he fears nothing.
Jenny
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Jenny Lees
post Mar 3 2008, 04:37 PM
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gbfahne.gif
QUOTE (Robert 1 @ Mar 3 2008, 01:24 PM)
Hi Hansi,
Perhaps this may be a bit off the subject but, after all you are asking about what people think about the SE horse. biggrin.gif
How do you and others feel about white on the SE horse, like a large white face, blaze, over and under the lips, white legs, hoofs.
One of the reasons I ask this is not how preety or unpretty it looks but, because of the riding,, are white faces and legs and hoofs less disireable, do they cause more problems riding or shoeing their feet.
Also about stallions or mares that constantly produce the same white markings and how much is too much or does it not matter?  unsure.gif 
Robert,
Echo Hill Arabians, USA
*


gbfahne.gif Robert I have a Crabbet mare with a big white blaze going down over both nostrils, the only problem I have with her is that first 'suntan' of the summer. The first time she started to burn I put on a recommended sun block and it was the worst thing I could have done as she developed a really bad reaction to it. Now I leave her to tan naturally cool.gif and she is fine.

Our best 100 mile endurance horse to date (see below) is also a GB Endurance Team horse. I think the white must come through from his mainly Crabbet sire as his dam is my Asil Bahraini mare and as you can see below she has very little white. Having white legs does not bother him and he has incredibly hard tough white hooves. Just my experience so far.
All the best,
Jenny.
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Echo1
post Mar 3 2008, 06:02 PM
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Thanks Hansi, but it is true. smile.gif What can we say?

Jenny,
I think this is also true what you say. White hooves or black can be equally good. In fact, I've seen some who were dark hooves which weren't as strong as some horses with white hooves. It's just a small bit of preference in a long list of priorities, where 'ideally' the dark pigmentation is easier to deal with, where there isn't a problem with sunburn or scratches(bacterial infection on the skin) . Sometimes those little things can become a nuisance in endurance. But relatively minor on the grand scale of things, don't you think? wink.gif
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Jenny Lees
post Mar 4 2008, 12:05 AM
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gbfahne.gif Hi Robert you are right. In the grand scale of things minor bacterial infections via scratches on the legs, whether white or dark, can at least be managed. I always feel so sorry for those that train their horses to quite a high standard in endurance and then find that they cannot go that "extra mile" that makes the difference between a good endurance horse and an exceptional one due to metabolics sad.gif That is the one thing we have never had a problem with in our Asil Bahraini desert breds. They have never lost points for dehydration nor been vetted out on metabolics and often end up with the award for the best condition horse to finish. We are looking forward to our 2008 season when Shuwaiman Al Bahrain (photos below) will be doing some serious race rides and will hopefully complete his first 75 mile race ride.

Al the best,
Jenny.
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LPA
post Mar 4 2008, 01:03 AM
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QUOTE (Mr Prospector @ Mar 3 2008, 11:18 AM)
Lisa

What a lovely old stallion.  He just is so beautiful.  The first thing I notice about any horse is the hindquarter.  This stallion has such a well defined hindquarter, he made me smile as soon as I saw him.  I bet he is a real power mover when ridden.  I bet you feel safe riding him too, with a hindquarter like that.  He has a good slope of shoulder which is good too.  He just exudes masculinity which as a mare owner I look for in a stallion.  I have seen a few "girlie" stallions that make me laugh.  At his age the little crestiness in his neck is normal in a breeding animal.  His head - his head is so, so lovely. So classical and old fashioned.  He is just what a real Arabian stallion should look like. 

When I move to QLD next year, would you mind terribly if I came by to see this guy in person?  I would love to know his name.  You have a real treasure with him. 

Cheers
Karen
*


This horse is definitely a supercharged V8 to ride. laugh.gif And we do feel very safe on him.
I think he might pull a face at the "old" word though as I think he considers himself the Equine version of the Fresh Prince of Belair! cool.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif .
He has just turned 10 so I won't tell him what people are saying. tongue.gif
Thanks for the comments though Karen and Hansi.
As for the hock, I naturally had to go and check him yesterday biggrin.gif but found no galls, so it was either shadow or dirt - he wasn't bathed for the photo. To remove any doubt, I'll post a decent pic of them, when I can find one. smile.gif
Lisa.
Lavender Park
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Marilee
post Mar 4 2008, 01:34 AM
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Hansi- - - I have answered on another thread that you started--- "Now Look at This" post #12. I see some horses in halter that I would like to ride.....but not too many.
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Robert 1
post Mar 4 2008, 12:46 PM
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Dear Hansi,
Thanks for the honest response and it is interesting to see the different points of view, Jenny enjoys her nice Crabbet mare and deals with the sunburn problems very nicely, some simple adjustments. biggrin.gif
Hansi how about if you breed a certain mating with anticipation of getting a stallion prospect and he turns out to be everything you want in your future herd sire but, he has a lot of white markings face and legs, and as you say your breeding program dosen't have much of this, what then. biggrin.gif
Jenny my favorite pic's are the riding ones biggrin.gif wink.gif
Robert,
Echo Hill Arabains
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