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> How Do I Stop My 3 Yo Gelding From Rearing
Celeste
post May 21 2008, 10:44 AM
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I own a purebred arabian gelding who does not like to be lead. He tries to grap his lead with his mouth and has recently reared on a couple of occasions. I am starting to feel a tad intimidated. How do I overcome this problem?
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carolmaginn
post May 21 2008, 12:51 PM
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Put a chain over his nose (through the halter). The next time he pulls this with you - give him a jerk or two( or 3). Let the horse know he can't be rearing up with you next to him - he could hurt you. I would think that should do it. Be sure to scold him in a long low tone of voice as well. When he stands quietly then praise him and go on. When he rears up then you give him a jerk. Eventually he will learn and you will be safer.

I have had a problem like this too where my stallion wanted to not mind me, rear up, and is also interested in mounting me (as in he is ready to breed). I have a good stallion - he is just young, confused and very viral. So I've had to take some serious measures to nip this in the bud. They just need to learn that this behavior is not acceptable and that you are the boss.

Good luck!

Carol
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Ladypurr
post May 21 2008, 06:36 PM
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Dear Celeste:

Well, he's young and full of it, but he must learn that certain behaviors are unacceptable. People deliberately "train" their horses to rear which I think is somewhat dangerous.

I had a horse nearly go over backwards with me once. I tried to pull him to the side so he'd stop rearing and he simply lost his balance and fell. I found this website with some good suggestions. http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_behavior/rearing.htm

You might look at the websites of some of the famous clinicians--John Lyons, Clinton Anderson, Craig Cameron, Pat Parelli, Monty Robers--to see if they provide some basic 'horse-handling' Q's & A's.

If he's intimidating you, your fear is going to keep you from taking a strong remedial action against his bratty behavior. You probably should inlist the help of a qualified horse trainer. Better to nip bad behavior in the bud than allow it to become an ingrained "bad" habit!

Good luck, and stay safe!

--Susan wink.gif
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Georgia
post May 21 2008, 11:49 PM
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Hi there.

I would get the John Lyons books.. they are great and not that expensive.
I would teach your boy the "go forward cue" as he is rearing because he doesn't know to go forward. I would teach him to "give to the halter"
I would definitely buy a cowboy halter.. you don't have to buy the expensive Clinician ones.. just a cheap one out of a catalog will do. make sure you have a lead no shorter than 10 foot.. 12 preferably. This way you can be far enough away from those feet should they come up off the ground.

In the mean time, really need to teach him to lead. Since he won't go forward with you without rearing. I'd only circle him. bend his head towards you so he doesn't have control of his head.. make sharp turns and go forward only a step or two and then circle.. you can keep him going forward with the lead or a whip taping his butt to make him move forward. Make sure whatever you do you don't stop taping until he moves or at least leans forward, (at first is acceptable) to tell him he is getting the idea.

Or go online www.downunderhorsemanship.com with Clinton Anderson. He has
information for free on his web site that might help you out. As far as I'm concerned he is the most user friendly clinician with straight forward approach and understandable.

The best advise is if he is to dangerous for you to work with, hire a professional to get him started.

Good luck stay safe and always wear a helmet.

Georgia
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curtislt
post May 22 2008, 12:17 AM
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Never ever nose chain an Arab!!!

They have very delicate nose cartilage in their breathing passage, which is easily damaged by indiscriminate jerking on a nose chain. Ever seen an Arab with a ruined profile because of a nose bump from a misinformed "trainer" yanking on a chain?

Plus, just think about this. A horse yeilds (or trys to relieve) pressure as a natural instinct, which is why (when used correctly) it's so effective as a training tool.

Now, if you're yanking on a nose or bar chain, where does that horse usually go to relieve the pressure? UP (he's unlikely to lie down and must go somewhere).
Kind of counter productive, heh?

Like many of us, horses hate to work unnecessarily. I find a good tool is to make the horse back -usually the quicker the better.
Next time he goes up, face him, shake the loose lead side-to-side with a snaking motion (no jerking), stomp your feet and holler BACK and keep him backing until you have his full attention. Then, stop him and calmly lead him off. If he comes up again, REPEAT, 'til he gets it. He'll soon get tired of this extra work and figure it's not worth it. I use this method to cure all kinds of unwanted behavior on or off the horse.

Good luck and save the chains for snow-covered roads.

Curt
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Guest_luke64_*
post May 22 2008, 01:27 AM
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Hi
not nice and yeh you dont ever put up with this type of rubbish It could kill
Have you got a Anti rearing Bit and A horse can only rear if it can get its head up
if its down it cant rear

Do not put up with this it is not on as It could be your life or someone elses

I saw a horse rear up on a man that was holding it talking to someone when the horse came down its hoof got stuck in the mans pocket and of course the horse paniced and it was horrid people were laughing until they saw the result
I dont think I need to say more

goodluck
Linda
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LPA
post May 22 2008, 03:40 AM
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Hi there,
A question first? Were you there when he was gelded? Was everything removed? Two stone lighter so to speak, and the epididymus? I know that if a horse is gelded and the later is left behind, they can still have the behavioural patterns of a stallion. Just a thought. If the extra training curtisIt suggested doesn't work, which it should with patience and persistence, then it might be an idea to check this out with your vet. At least ask him the questions.
Good luck,
Lisa
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carolmaginn
post May 22 2008, 03:51 AM
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Dear Curtis,

I respectfully have to disagree with you on this. I used to believe what you said was correct as I was told the same thing by another breeder. However I spoke to a number of other people and learned from them and through my own experiences that when the chain is under the horse's jaw they will go up as it is away from the pressure (sometimes over backwards if you are too rough), however when the chain is above the nose they do go down in response to the pressure.

Thanks,

Carol

QUOTE (curtislt @ May 21 2008, 07:17 PM)
Never ever nose chain an Arab!!!

They have very delicate nose cartilage in their breathing passage, which is easily damaged by indiscriminate jerking on a nose chain. Ever seen an Arab with a ruined profile because of a nose bump from a  misinformed "trainer" yanking on a chain?

Plus, just think about this. A horse yeilds (or trys to relieve) pressure as a natural instinct, which is why (when used correctly)  it's so effective as a training tool.

Now, if you're yanking on a nose or bar chain, where does that horse usually go to relieve the pressure? UP (he's unlikely to lie down and must go somewhere).
Kind of counter productive, heh?

Like many of us, horses hate to work unnecessarily. I find a good tool is to make the horse back -usually the quicker the better.
Next time he goes up, face him, shake the loose lead side-to-side with a snaking motion (no jerking), stomp your feet and holler BACK and keep him backing until you have his full attention. Then, stop him and calmly lead him off. If he comes up again, REPEAT, 'til he gets it. He'll soon get tired of this extra work and figure it's not worth it. I use this method to cure all kinds of unwanted behavior on or off the horse.

Good luck and save the chains for snow-covered roads.

Curt
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curtislt
post May 22 2008, 04:16 AM
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Carol,

That's your privilege. My response was not to cause affront. But, the first time you jerk too hard and the chain doesn't release (as they are wont to do) from the D-ring on the side of the halter, please note which direction your horse chooses to escape the pressure.
Again, you may want to study the fragility of the cartilage in an Arab's nasal passage as compared to a Quarter Horse and other breeds who are more typically nose chained.

Respectfully,
Curt
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carolmaginn
post May 22 2008, 04:30 AM
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Curt,

I understand where you are coming from. But I've had a battle with my 3 year old colt who is a walking hormone over the past week. He was collected about 2 weeks ago and is now so excited he wants to mount me. I have to tell you THAT is a bit intimidating to have your stallion rear up and see that he is fully ready to breed, and there is no one standing there but YOU. So as much as I worry about my baby's cartilage - I was more worried about my own health. So - I used the chain over his nose a few times along with a whip. I do not make a habit of this ever - truly I do not believe in that in general. But due to the circumstances - I felt compelled to make sure I had as much control as possible. After 3 days of reinforcing that I am "the boss" and not one of "his mares" and not allowing him to rear up on me and treat me like "a peer", I find that we are both much happier. Now this evening I was able to take the chain off his halter and just use the whip - not even touching him with it - just having it in my hand now and he is respecting me finally. So I'm sorry if I appear too rough, but I feel its important to nip unsafe behavior like this before someone (me for example) gets hurt. I do know the horse's nose cartilage is delicate, but I think if my stallion treated a mare the way he treated me - he would have alot more to worry about than his nose. A mare would let him know what behavior would be tolerated with a swift kick - at whatever was in close range.

Anyway - perhaps I shouldn't have said anything, but I am so relieved to have a horse now walking next to me with respect again rather than what he had been doing that I am grateful for having some tools to train him.

One more thing - Mo is a very sweet stallion - but he turns out to be very sexually mature and I have a mare who was in heat in the same barn (80 feet away but still) and I just think that he is not used to all of these sexual sensations that he is feeling since his first collection took place - its a bit new to him so he just needs to know his boundaries. I think that other colts may go though this as well at some point.

Carol

QUOTE (curtislt @ May 21 2008, 11:16 PM)
Carol,

That's your privilege. My resonse was not to cause affront. But, the first time you jerk too hard and the chain doesn't release (as they are wont to do) from the D-ring on the side of the halter, please note which direction your horse chooses to escape the pressure.
Again, you may want to study the fragility of the cartilage in an Arab's nasal passage as compared to a Quarter Horse and other breeds who are more typically nose chained.

Respectfully,
Curt
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Cheryl L
post May 22 2008, 06:35 AM
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Good Grief, Curtis. They are not delicate, fragile horses, with fragile psyches.

First you need a chain long enough, to put through the BOTTOM ring of the halter, then up through the side ring of the halter, over the noseband and one loop around the noseband, then through the side ring on the other side and down through the bottom ring. Attach your lead rope to that. This will allow you the control, without the chain bunching up on one side. You can also (gasp), lunge your horse this way. I have NEVER in well over 20 years, seen any cartilidge damage to the nose, doing this.

I am also going to second the opinion, that you will probably need the help of someone that has a bit more experience than you. Wished you lived closer.
Cheryl
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curtislt
post May 22 2008, 07:45 AM
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Thanks, Cheryl. You just reminded me why I post here so infrequently.

But, I can see the necessity of chains when one is breeding babies who have yet to mature and have other jobs so they know the difference between the breeding shed and work time.

And, I never said they were "delicate, fragile horses with delicate psyches" and resent you putting words in my mouth. I just pointed out their nose cartilage is delicate.

I simply offered an alternative to forced submission by use of patient, proper long term training.

"GOOD GRIEF", if you want to chain your horse -have at it. I am happy, though, for Celeste's gelding that he doesn't live nearer to you.

Now you have something to rant about; don't look for anymore responses from me, though.

Once again, I've had enough of you contentious bunch of ________ (fill in the blank with your favorite noun; mine's unprintable) and your uncanny ability to turn every post into an exercise of frustration.
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Cheryl L
post May 22 2008, 10:33 AM
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No Curt, you did not say fragile psyches, my apologies. I of course post words that are acceptable language and not leave blanks for our imagination.

Celeste,
Your horse was not taught proper ground manners when young. Grabbing a lead rope is a big no no, in my book.

There is a thread that I will bump up for you. It is called "What is required to make a show horse". It will give you step by step instructions on how to teach a horse for setting up for halter. These are great steps for teaching you, how to teach a horse proper manners on a lead. They are not abusive. We don't yank the daylights out of the horses and these methods wil build a bond between you and your horse. It is good for babies and up. Sort of like obedience training.
Cheryl
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Desert Tag Arabi...
post May 22 2008, 12:23 PM
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Cheryl--Your description of how to run the chain is exactly what we do, and it does work very well. It gives good control of the head and is how we curtailed rearing in our stallion. My vet also recommended running the chain this way, so I feel completely comfortable in using it.

Rearing is VERY serious, and very dangerous. It is something that must be dealt with swiftly and firmly. After jerking the horse to reprimand, I do agree with curtislt that backing the horse is also effective, but only AFTER you have brought him back down to the ground. Reprimand him with the lead (always stand at his shoulder, never in front), and then back him until you have his full attention.

Each time you work with him make sure you take some deep breaths, prepare yourself mentally for what you will do if there is any rearing, and go to work leading him with a calm, confident manner. STAY at his shoulder, and when you feel him getting ready to rear, make sure you are at the shoulder (most want to turn into you, facing you, and rear, so you have to be on your toes to prepare to be at the shoulder). As soon as he comes up, you jerk him 2-3 times and speak in a firm voice, reprimanding, until he comes down. Then immediately snake the lead to back him until you have his full attention. Continue leading and end it on a good note.
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carolmaginn
post May 22 2008, 12:32 PM
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Curtisit,

You know I know that I used the word "Baby". My "Baby" is 3 years old now - not 2 years old. My broodmares are still my "Babies". That is more an indication of how I feel about them rather than their age. I think honestly the problem is that I have babied this colt all his life instead and now he sees me as a peer instead of the person in charge so it has made it more of a challenge to gain his respect. That was my mistake and I will be more careful to train my babies sooner - particularly the boys. I was warned about this, but I didn't listen so - now I am paying the price.

I think your patient long term training idea is a good one, however with a breeding animal you have got to be safe if he is not acting in a safe way and you are not getting control first trying your method. By the way I put the chain under his halter first for the reasons you mentioned and it didn't help much and he went up instead of down. The way that I'm using the chain I have not seen that problem you mentioned of it getting stuck.

I have not meant to upset you. I do wish you were closer and we could work the horses together as we certainly clearly both love them. And you could also see the issue I had - which improved in just a few lessons though that may seem a bit harsh - but again - I am now able to take the chain off. Another time I would use the chain would be if the stallion was live covering - for the safety of both animals. Sometimes stallions don't figure out where to mount the mare and they go for the side, their head, everything but the rear end. I would not want a mare to get hurt so in this case I would want control.

Anyway - please accept my apology if I insulted you - I didn't mean to at all. Maybe you are right - I'm just sharing my opinion and no one has to respect it if they don't want to.

Thanks,

Carol

QUOTE (curtislt @ May 22 2008, 02:45 AM)
Thanks, Cheryl. You just reminded me why I post here so infrequently.

But, I can see the necessity of chains when one is breeding babies who have yet to mature and have other jobs so they know the difference between the breeding shed and work time.

And, I never said they were "delicate, fragile horses with delicate psyches" and resent you putting words in my mouth. I just pointed out their nose cartilage is delicate.

I simply offered an alternative to forced submission by use of patient, proper long term training.

"GOOD GRIEF", if you want to chain your horse -have at it. I am happy, though, for Celeste's gelding that he doesn't live nearer to you.

Now you have something to rant about; don't look for anymore responses from me, though.

Once again, I've had enough of you contentious bunch of ________ (fill in the blank with your favorite noun; mine's unprintable) and your uncanny ability to turn every post into an exercise of frustration.
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