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> How Do I Stop My 3 Yo Gelding From Rearing
An American Bree...
post May 22 2008, 12:42 PM
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Carol, You are going at it the correct way. I also have a colt from that lineage and he is TWO and the hormones have hit. I have stayed on him since the time he came to me, and we are doing fine. Very good in fact.

Properly used, the chain over the nose is a wonderful tool for a good horseman/horsewoman. Do NOT run the chain over the nose and up alongside the head and snap up on the cheek. If you do not KNOW how to properly use the chain, then and only then, one can get a horse rearing to where it will go over backwards.

No, so far, I have not had to use a chain. But then again, I went to his breeder and to the stallion's owner and received wonderful help, advice, insight, and I had also seen his grandsire sell at the last Gleannloch sale!

So, kudos to you Carol! I was badly mauled by a young stallion, two years old, that I loved and did NOT get a handle on. It is only by the Lord's will that I lived!! Sometime remind you to tell you of my after affects~~ like teeth chattering, knees knocking so bad I could't stop them, and so on after I escaped. I also then promptly took that colt up to a friend, Gene Smith out of Plentywood, Montana and that rancher taught me how to manage a stallion -- and the colt too!

What your colt is learning and what the gelding has NOT learned is how to respect your S P A C E. And I don't honestly think that in a few words I can teach that here on this board/forum.

And HAVE GREAT FUN AT THE EVENT!!!!
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carolmaginn
post May 22 2008, 12:56 PM
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Well I have to also give credit where it is due. I was doing the old way of putting the chain under the jaw and was having trouble with him going up. I went to Willow Breeze and I have to tell you that Sandy Johnson is EXCELLENT with handling and managing arabian stallions. They have about 5 or 6 there and she does a great job. When she handled my colt he walked quietly and calmly. She pointed out that I had my chain under the jaw and I told her that I didn't want to leave a mark on his nose. Then she showed me the proper way to use the chain and it worked wonderfully. Its so nice to have fellow breeders who have more experience willing to help someone with their first stallion. I am very grateful that I had someone willing to help me as well - much the way you felt with your rancher horseman. I'm always listening to folks that have done this longer trying to learn as much as possible.

Carol

QUOTE (An American Breeder @ May 22 2008, 07:42 AM)
Carol, You are going at it the correct way.  I also have a colt from that lineage and he is TWO and the hormones have hit.  I have stayed on him since the time he came to me, and we are doing fine.  Very good in fact.

Properly used, the chain over the nose is a wonderful tool for a good horseman/horsewoman.  Do NOT run the chain over the nose and up alongside the head and snap up on the cheek.  If you do not KNOW how to properly use the chain, then and only then, one can get a horse rearing to where it will go over backwards.

No, so far, I have not had to use a chain.  But then again, I went to his breeder and to the stallion's owner and received wonderful help, advice, insight, and I had also seen his grandsire sell at the last Gleannloch sale! 

So, kudos to you Carol!  I was badly mauled by a young stallion, two years old, that I loved and did NOT get a handle on.  It is only by the Lord's will that I lived!!  Sometime remind you to tell you of my after affects~~  like teeth chattering, knees knocking so bad I could't stop them, and so on after I escaped.  I also then promptly took that colt up to a friend, Gene Smith out of Plentywood, Montana and that rancher taught me how to manage a stallion -- and the colt too!

What your colt is learning and what the gelding has NOT learned is how to respect your S P A C E.  And I don't honestly think that in a few words I can teach that here on this board/forum.

And HAVE GREAT FUN AT THE EVENT!!!!
*
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Gabe
post May 22 2008, 01:10 PM
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I just have to add that My colt had some back habits of biting and kicking (largely caused by being partially blinded in one eye while he was a foal rather than any bad temper) the backing worked wonders for those bad habits. We still have a tiny kicking problem but it gets better and better every time he is worked with and the biting is non existant.
I would say start out by trying the backing up technique. If that does not work with your boy move on to more extreme measures such as carol was sujesting. As she said such behavior should not be tolerated because it is extremely dangerous. A whip is also a great tool. There is no need to touch him with it But a nice little crack in the air with it can go a long way to him gaining your respect.
I'd also sujest working him in the round pen. He needs to know who's boss and round pen work is always good for establishing that.
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Echo1
post May 22 2008, 01:37 PM
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I think it's a basic lack of acknowlegment or lack of respect problem, getting a horse to respect you are even acknowledge you is very important to be done with a young horse. wink.gif When you are present with a horse, he should be paying attention to you, looking to please , and waiting for your next request. I just hate to see when the only time a horse gets any training, is when the handler is correcting him or telling him no. All these things will go away automatically (rearing, biting, kicking or whatever) if the handler is spending his time teaching a young horse the basic fundamentals of how to interact with people. I really like Clinton Anderson's way of training horses, met him a few times, and can say his methods are very much on course on how to train horses without having to use abusive methods. NEVER would I recommend a chain over the nose, just to lead a colt, I think it's a shortcut to get a response through a harsh method, which will only make him more agressive in the long run. Teach him how to give at the poll, with using 2 fingers of pressure, the second he gives to your touch, release, do it repetiviely and he'll put his nose all the way to touch the ground within less than a half hour of training time, this is something he'll remember for a lifetime and never get you or himself in a dangerous position. wink.gif smile.gif ANY young horse can be trained with just a rope and halter.
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southwindarabian
post May 22 2008, 02:50 PM
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I'm sorry but I have to agree with Carol M. Colts that try to mount you are showing absolutely no respect.... We have a very direct and effective way of dealing with silly young or older boys....Captive chain, then put the fear of god into them if they try to mount, strike, ect.. I do not use a chain over the nose personally( can be extremely hard to control the horse and keep them from flipping-not to mention they tend to fight the pressure) but whatever works for you use it. Stallions and even mares and geldings can be scary dangerous if not taught from a young age to respect you. I will admit, yes I HAVE left welt marks on a horse that was purposely trying to hurt me. I used a captive chain and drove the horse backwards and fast and hard as I could. I guess I should say horses because we do deal with problem stallions and yes mares ( they are a hell of a lot more dangerous than the stallions). Once I see a submissive response I stop and all is forgiven. Horses are huge animals that have the capacity to KILL you. Respect is one of the 1st things they need to learn. Don't get me wrong, I love all horses, all breeds and thank god for the arabian because I have not had to use this method a lot. But having dealt with some truly vicious TB's and QH's, I value my life and my children's life. best piece of advise I can give ....Pick your fight-make sure you win then hopefully no more problems.
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Nadj al Nur
post May 22 2008, 02:54 PM
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I can see both sides of this argument. As Kelly and Curt have said, IF the horse has been properly handled from a youngster, there should never be a need to use a chain. I have not ever had to use one with my stallion who is now eight years old, however, I HAVE used one with stallions who have not had the sort of daily handling that is required to make them safe to handle just with a halter, and I WILL use it if it is ever needed.
I have also seen a stallion who DID go over backwards and break his neck, (a very nice, and very expensive QH ) because of improper use of a chain. Make very sure you know how to use it properly, or you will run into problems.
Cathy
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Echo1
post May 22 2008, 03:24 PM
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I thought we were talking about a gelding who likes to rear on the lead???
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An American Bree...
post May 22 2008, 03:36 PM
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If a gelding will grab the lead line in his mouth and then rear, and I mean rear, what difference does it make what SEX the animal is? You think (and I would believe you do not think this) that a gelding whacking the handler in the head or the body won't hurt/damage the same way as a stallion or a mare?

It is the HUMAN'S life that is in danger! Just one whack from one front hoof and the human is going to be hurt severly or killed.

Geldings are horses, last I knew, and they have the same potential as a stallion or a mare. Gelding a horse does not take away their life, their spirit, there sense of protection or of bullying or of wanting to have their own way. This horse was not taught respect, what is allowed, what is not allowed, from an early age and now the owner has to CORRECT this behavior and TEACH what is ACCEPTABLE behavior.
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southwindarabian
post May 22 2008, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (An American Breeder @ May 22 2008, 04:36 PM)
If a gelding will grab the lead line in his mouth and then rear, and I mean rear, what difference does it make what SEX the animal is?  You think (and I would believe you do not think this) that a gelding whacking the handler in the head or the body won't hurt/damage the same way as a stallion or a mare?

It is the HUMAN'S life that is in danger!  Just one whack from one front hoof and the human is going to be hurt severly or killed. 

Geldings are horses, last I knew, and they have the same potential as a stallion or a mare.  Gelding a horse does not take away their life, their spirit, there sense of protection or of bullying or of wanting to have their own way.  This horse was not taught respect, what is allowed, what is not allowed, from an early age and now the owner has to CORRECT this behavior and TEACH what is ACCEPTABLE behavior.
*


Very good post-I guess I should have mentioned geldings in my post as well. All horses have the potential TO DO EXTREME DAMAGE NO MATTER WHAT THE SEX.......Respect is the main issue here.
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Echo1
post May 22 2008, 05:03 PM
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Any horse can cause injury, even those cute fuzzy mini horses. smile.gif But geldings are easier to deal with, because you can interrupt their train of thought, whereas a stallion, may get focused on a mare or other stallion, and it's difficult 'sometimes' to break their attention.

There are usually two ways a person gets hurt with horses, which is by 'accident' and sometimes it's really a strange set of circumstances and often hard to prevent. Other times, it's a horse who is untrained or a handler who is untrained. Green horses and green riders don't mix well. wink.gif

Very rarely do we encounter a horse who incapable of learning better behaviors or who is simply incorrigible. More likely the problem in most cases, is the handler needs to learn a few new ways to work with horses. EVERY horse will give a few tell tale signs of their next reaction. You can ususally feel a buck coming, see him setting up to rear, or kick or bite. It's when those little things start to happen before the big explosion, is where and when a handler's actions are most effective.

I think in this case, it's where we have an overgrown weaning, who isn't halter trained and he is fighting the halter and refusing to go forward and opting to rear. Putting a chain on his nose, isn't going to correct this, in fact, it will make matters much worse. wink.gif
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southwindarabian
post May 22 2008, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE (Echo1 @ May 22 2008, 06:03 PM)
Any horse can cause injury, even those cute fuzzy mini horses.  smile.gif  But geldings are easier to deal with, because you can interrupt their train of thought, whereas a stallion, may get focused on a mare or other stallion, and it's difficult 'sometimes' to break their attention.

There are usually two ways a person gets hurt with horses, which is by 'accident' and sometimes it's really a strange set of circumstances and often hard to prevent.  Other times, it's a horse who is untrained or a handler who is untrained.  Green horses and green riders don't mix well.  wink.gif

Very rarely do we encounter a horse who incapable of learning better behaviors or who is simply incorrigible. More likely the problem in most cases, is the handler needs to learn a few new ways to work with horses.  EVERY horse will give a few tell tale signs of their next reaction.  You can ususally feel a buck coming, see him setting up to rear, or kick or bite.  It's when those little things start to happen before the big explosion, is where and when a handler's actions are most effective. 

I think in this case, it's where we have an overgrown weaning, who isn't halter trained and he is fighting the halter and refusing to go forward and opting to rear. Putting a chain on his nose, isn't going to correct this, in fact, it will make matters much worse.  wink.gif
*


Hi,
If you will reread my post I do not advocate putting a chain over the nose. I suggest a captive chain-you have control if needed but will not hurt the horse in anyway if the horse is minding it's manners. I do agre read the horse-that is why I said pick your fight-in other words if you are not sure you can win the situation don't let it get to that point. I also agree it takes a proffesional to deal with alot of the situations, thankfully I have dealt with many different breeds and have been working with arabians for over 20 yrs. I find them the easiest to read ( don't lie) and the easiest to teach.
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1rider
post May 22 2008, 05:24 PM
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Sorry but i have to get in this, you are all fooling yourselfs if you think a chain does any good. maybe for a short time you might even intimidate him for a few years. but at one point you will loose with that chain. have bread dozens of stallions, arab, thouroghbred,qh, ns ect.. and have been drug all over with a chain. now just a rope halter. really need to work on respect woth your horse before you breed him.. A chain is no training method.. Ken
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1rider
post May 22 2008, 05:27 PM
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echo1 good points. also the nose bones are very fine. and easy to damage. some of those bones are no thicker than a credit card. ken
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post May 23 2008, 05:19 AM
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Hi Christina and all I tried to post the other day and it hasnt come yet
so I will tell the same story again,Some years ago saw a man holding a horse at a show the man was talking to another person and the horse was fine being held when for no reason it reared up ........... When it came down its hoof got stuck in the mans pants pocket ..... And people were laughing

Well it wasnt funny when the horse and man were injured badly Nobody seemed to know what to do myself included I think it was the most scariest thing Ive ever seen.

Now I myself would use a ANTI REARING BIT and have his head down as a horse can only rear if it can get its head up to do so
I would girth him and have the anti rearing bit with a stap that is Loose but not loose enough for him to het his head up that far as to be able to rear

Question howlong have you had him ?
Do you know the people you got him from ? If so I would be contacting them and asking what training did they give him Sometimes people sell horse that have been trained to do things Or let get away with things because they dont know how to stop it

As for a chain (this is just my Personal Opinon and Prefence) I wouldnt ever put a chain over the nose on any horse Arab or whatever those cartilage are very fine
goodluck
Kind Regards Linda
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Desert Tag Arabi...
post May 24 2008, 02:46 AM
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http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/TTouchingYourHorse.htm

I thought some of you may find this article interesting. We've utilized several trainer's techniques in working with our horses, including Linda Tellington-Jones, and had a great deal of success doing so.
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