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> Ses With Babson Blood, why is this a bad thing??
flying hooves
post Jun 22 2008, 05:00 PM
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I have been trying to get an answer to this question and I get no answer.

I know people have their preferences in bloodlines but I am curious.

I see the No Minstril adds and kind of understand that one, though a good horse is a good horse.

What is up with the No Babson thing? I have 2 SE mares with Babson several generations back and have had people say, "oh they have Babsob blood" WHY?

Trying to learn

Lisa
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Nadj al Nur
post Jun 22 2008, 05:14 PM
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Lisa, you would have to ask the people who said that for the "why's " of that one, LOL. I think most people who breed SEs will tell you that Babson blood is not a bad thing at all and can certainly add a lot to a program, but as you say, it may be just a preference thing............
Cathy
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flying hooves
post Jun 22 2008, 05:22 PM
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Cathy

I have and receive no answer LOL

It is my understanding and experience, Babson blood adds performance!!

Lisa
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Nadj al Nur
post Jun 22 2008, 05:32 PM
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Well, if you have asked these people what they mean, and have recieved no answer, then I would suggest that they don't HAVE an answer and you can pretty much take it from there. I would say, on the average that most Babson lines DO bring something to performance, and to temperment as well.
Cathy
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Lysette
post Jun 22 2008, 05:37 PM
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When I very first got into researching Arabians I somehow got the impression tha the Babsons were not very typey. However, I QUICKLY became a fan of these beautiful, correct, and "doing" horses! I believe my misprecetions were due to the fact that the very first photos of horses I saw labled as being Babson bred were from odd angles giving the horse an impression of a short neck and a plain head. I was soon cured of my misperception smile.gif
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dgfour
post Jun 22 2008, 05:41 PM
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Dear Flying Hoofs


This response to Babson blood has been around for a long time. Years ago it was too much inbreeding, too little size ,and a lot of other things. Having visited the Babson farm while Homer Watson was still there and seeing their horses for myself I can assure that all the prejudice against these horses is unfounded.
Look at Prince Fa Moniet, the entire Falima line at Ansata, all the winners from Bentwod years ago with Babson blood. The US National Champion mare Fa Halima, and on and on.
I am not aware that Babson blood in a pedigree diminishes the value of the individual, but in any case, you can be assured it adds pigmentation, substance, movement, tail carriage, and TEMPERAMENT, as well as other positive attributes.
So your response to those asking why they have Babson blood could well be that it adds a lot of things you are seeking to a pedigree.

Dennis
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kay cochran
post Jun 22 2008, 05:55 PM
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Dear Flying Hooves, There are Babson Arabs you couldn't give me and there are some I search for. It depends on what particular Babson bloodlines you are after. For example, Anchor Hill Amida by Al Metrabbi+ out of Serida was a class A halter champion that produced class A halter champions. Serida was a beautiful mare and did not produce the top heavy thick necks that seem to go with some Babsons. She produced beautiful heads with large eyes. Hannah was a beautiful mare with really nice neck, big bodied and beautiful exotic head with large eyes. Ahroufa,Roufah, Henrietta,and Bint Fada, all at one time owned by Jarrell McCracken were excellent mares and produced champions. Maar Jumana is another classic champion producer. Fa Daalim was an absolutely beautiful classic stallion. Study your pedigrees that represent the true classic Arab. The most important characteristic that I like about the Babson lines are the classic heads with the huge eyes, big bodies, and strong rear ends. There are good ones and bad ones just like any other bloodline. Think of the really excellent ones as the pick of the litter. Only breed from them. That is true of any bloodline. Not every single foal is going to be a champion. When you find a nick stay with it. Evidently you're dealing with uneducated ignorant people. Do your homework! Remember you can't argue with a well informed educated person who knows facts.
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BasiliskBelka
post Jun 22 2008, 07:50 PM
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A single Babson horse revolutioned Arab breeding in the UK and opened the gates to Egyptian blood. He was British National Champion (beating El Shaklan) and won also at Paris: his offspring included top-class racing Arabs, endurance horses, top show horses and more - all with superb temperaments.

Personally, I'd rather have Babson blood than the excess of Nazeer you find everywhere now: my herd is all Babson-related, including a non-Egyptian line via Fadjur.

Babson horses are HORSEMENS' horses - perhaps that's the answer to why some folk don't understand their value?

Keren
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Pete Hiatt
post Jun 22 2008, 07:53 PM
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I am sure it is not the same people who dislike the Minstril/Desparado AND Babsons. The first line lacks movement and legs, etc but are fancy. The Babsons are just the opposite. I, personally, really like a leg to Babson and really admired the Ansata/Babson cross as some of the best horses around.

You breed your mares to what they need or want to double on. The Babson line has a lot to offer.

You can cure lack of knowledge, but you cannot cure stupidity.
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flying hooves
post Jun 22 2008, 08:24 PM
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Thank you all for your insite smile.gif

I couldn't imagine someone calling Serr Maariner a slouch laugh.gif

I have seen pics of the thick short necked plain looking babsons but I also don't recall that type being excluded from the early imports of other lines.

In a world where we are seeing less and less using SEs it makes you wonder.

I do agree with the fact that certain bloodlines have been tagged by the sample of their gene pool which is undesireable. Such as china dolls or plain thick performance superstars.

Imagine if you crossed the china doll with the plain powerhouse!!

Lisa
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flying hooves
post Jun 22 2008, 08:27 PM
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I meant to post this picture I found in the pic section here. This is in no way an insult or anything negative.

Here is a mare, imported by Ansata. I wouldn't call her slender wink.gif
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Clothilde
post Jun 22 2008, 08:46 PM
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How about that in a pedigree?
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This is my SBE mare, she has size, substance, good neck, very nice head, big black eyes, movement to die for and sweet temper...

I saw lots of SBE, some around 15.3h or more, some with fluid lines, some more rounded and muscular, some with a dish, some not etc etc...A large variety in this small group, you can find all kind of conformation but the first thing that ALL the babsons have is their incredible conformation and soundness, secondary the character!
They have all this sweet look in the eyes that is beyond words...

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HLM
post Jun 23 2008, 12:01 AM
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Dear Lisa

It would anger me too, chuck it up to total ignorance. some of the finest SEs and Asils carry Babson blood, are super horses, internationally honored and liked, wanted and imported and used in knowledgable breeding programs. We have "Babson Blood" through our AK shah Munifeh? anything wrong with him and his beauty, type,movement and production of many champions? I dont think so..

People sometimes say things in ignorance, copy others who also dont have a clue of what they are talking about, so please dont listen to them, and do what you are doing here, post and many will reply.

Take care and enjoy your Babson blood Arabian Horses
hansi biggrin.gif
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Nancy Bourque/Ib...
post Jun 23 2008, 12:15 AM
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There are good and bad things in all lines. When you go shopping at the produce counter you don't just grab anything you come to. You check it over and choose the best. This same principle should be applied to horses, whether it's Minstral or Babson or whatever other bloodlines people happen to be down on at the time.
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IsisArabians207
post Jun 23 2008, 01:21 AM
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I am relatively new to this forum,however,I feel compelled to share my observations re Babson stock in pedigrees(for better or worse). huh.gif
Before setting up my breeding program,I had done research on as many new & old SE lines re genotype and phenotype expressed.Naturally, my conclusions are limited without actually seeing the EAO and foundation stock they trace back to in the flesh,as they predate my existence.However,I have seen many of the products of this stock in the flesh,and pls correct me if I'm wrong, but nowadays Babson lines seem lately to me to be the most consistent lines producing straight legs,solid hip,etc. I can't argue that often they are not flashy as the new SE lines are today,but I have concluded they are as the gold standard in SE breeding that we can hopefully always go back to or outcross with to quite lierally straighten out legs,etc .
I was surprised and disappointed to see something akin to scorn which SE horses that trace back to Babson stock are often rec'd with in the ,"modern" SE community?What's up with that,I thought? My initial thought was that perhaps it was because they were so tightly bred,but after seeing how often people doubled,tripled,and more on TM blood up close in their pedigree's I realized this was'nt the case.
I have concluded that IMO in SOME cases,perhaps (but I hope not )the majority,this aversion to Babson blood back in bloodlines is most likely due to a common sociological phenomenon :A "FAD," and I don't mean Fadjur(!!)
Have we immersed ourselves in the pseudo glamour of the ,"new" lines at the expense of basic things (prevalent in Babson's) like a horse with straight legs,short back,balanced body that's a pleasure to ride? Where are we headed with the SE's? I am still new to arabian breeding,but am often a quick study and capable of seperating the wheat from the chaff.Well,I'm seeing lots of chaff(!)
I apologize for sounding cynical, but what is it about we as human beings will cause us to jump over the cliff genetically en masse like lemmings and arbritraily prune out some of the best stock we have to fall back on re CORRECT conformation? This goes much deeper than horse breeding,I'd say.I'm happy to say I did'nt make the leap,and apparently many others did'nt either... smile.gif
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