Joined: 17-March 03
From: Ontario Canada
Member No.: 53
On this subject I would like to share a conversation I had at the start of the 2008 Egyptian Event. I was approached on the Monday by someone who felt compelled to inform me of the following, "Babson blood does not have any relevance in todays breeding programs."
I do not know the person who made the comment nor do I understand why they felt it was necessary to share their position on this subject with me. It was simply stated as fact and they were not interested in hearing any counter points.
I cannot understand why the decadents of the Babson herd would ever been dismissed so out of hand. As others have stated so well in this thread most of the great breeding horses & programs are founded on horses with a percent of Babson blood.
We have the honor, and that is what I consider it to own on the last SE daughters of Serr Maariner (there were only 7 in total), Abitibi Fleur. She along with her half sister (xImperial Madheen) are both tail female Babson and are the foundation of the Etaya breeding program.
We are extremely proud of the Babson influence within our herd. We consider this blood to be so important that the majority of the outside stallions we have selected are also tail female to Babson lines.
So to are they relevant today? My answer is YES.
Pictured below & photographed today - Abitibi Fleur & June 08 colt by Imperial Mistaar. Fleur is 22 year young. Fleur's daughter, Etaya Shai Zahra & 07 filly and Fleur's granddaughter, Etaya Sudan Zahra also by Imperial Mistaar. She won the 2008 Egyptian Event Junior Filly Futurity Championship with three 20's for type & three 20's for head. Seems pretty relevant to me.
Best to all,
I added S. Vesty's 2007 photo of Abitibi Fleur as this shows her true colour.
Joined: 14-May 04
Member No.: 1382
I couldn't agree more. I love to see Babson blood in a pedigree!
And, your 2007 Class Champion Filly is gorgeous and, as you so rightly point out, absolute proof of not just the relevance, but also the beautiful legacy, of Babson blood in today's straight Egyptian Arabian!
Joined: 18-November 05
From: Trotwood, Ohio USA
Member No.: 2910
HI Etaya, Stunning photos and they prove your point and support for the Babson blood beyond any reasonable doubt! I knew Serr Maariner and saw him several times, one of the most exciting times was at the Egyptian Event when Major Carmona exhibited him in long lines! He was so outstanding that the next year the show commission must have decided it was an unfair advantage to show in this style and so they banned it from the competition. I know of a Serr Maariner daughter and granddaughter that are going begging on the West coast, they could be jewels in someones broodmare band should anyone have the foresight and wisdom to know how to use them in a breeding program. One can see from Etaya's success just how much they can "bring to the party"! Treasure is out there folks, one just must recognize it. Pam Studebaker
Joined: 18-June 03
Member No.: 548
Thank you so much for posting the picture of Abitibi Fleur. You made my day, to see her again!!! And her family!!!
We have the honor, and that is what I consider it to own on the last SE daughters of Serr Maariner (there were only 7 in total), Abitibi Fleur.
I used to see her alot, as I told you previously and I really thought she was something, even though she walked away, every time I wanted to touch her. She has such a personality, as I would try to look over my shoulder without her knowing that I was looking and she would have that shocked look, "hey, wait a minute, I changed my mind, come back here!" It was a wonderful experience to walk out into Gail Carmona's broodmare field and be completely surrounded by all these Babson mares, without a worry. That's what I love about the Babson Horses is their people-loving disposition and their plain old, good sense.
Thanks for the stroll down memory lane tonight. Some of my happiest years were spent at Princeton Arabians and Los Alamos Dressage Center!!!
Joined: 11-January 07
From: Two Mountain Ranch, Nampa, Idaho USA
Member No.: 4862
Thanks for sharing that experience. Perhaps what was meant should have been stated like this: "Babson blood does not have any relevance in todays halter breeding programs."
I would even go so far as to substitute "garden ornament" for "halter". I have heard comments which amount to the same thing you've heard. Right now the "Halter" world has all the glamour and money - now all they need is some real horses to go with it. Not that there are not a few good ones in halter, because there certainly are. Many of those DO have Babson - the owners may not be aware of it.
Joined: 17-December 03
Member No.: 1061
I have full sisters who look the same other than one is 14.2 and the other is 15.2. The same lines plus 30 years of different breeders can lead to incredible differences. Look at Inshass vs EAO. Completely different look with the same starting lines.
I also have a 34 year old mare. I saved her from the killers. A friend's boyfriend stole her horses when she was away (and later incapable of taking care of any). I picked her up, drove her home and when called by the evil one simply told him "Any time, anywhere, any caliber." I never heard from him again. She is a bit Crabbet, a bit Polish, a bit American, etc. She is absolutely gorgeous of head and body. So much so that, God willing, I'll take her to the Al Khamsa convention next year. Some well built horses retain overall beauty forever.
Joined: 13-January 08
From: Schulenburg, Texas
Member No.: 10644
Dear All, I remember Judi Forbis saying she felt like the Babson lines should be considered the same as the more recent imports. She certainly felt they were valuable. I did not know it was Kline that pinned that name, new vs. old. Is'nt it all old? I think it went back to money. I remember you could buy the Babsons much cheaper and we were told by other breeders not to buy anything with Babson in the bloodline. Well, I didn't listen and I bought what I thought were good horses. The mares with Babson were very prolific and were easy to breed. Besides they had those big old Crabbet eyes which some of the "new straights" didn't have. Their bloodlines go back to the same horses, so in my opinion there is no difference as to value only in the qualities that you get from the Babson horses. I still have Babson lines in my horses. Sincerely, Kay
Joined: 21-March 03
Member No.: 192
I cant believe anybody would say this, other than a "Idiot". that is a georgeous mare you show a photo off, would love to own her. Here is the substance and the arabian type which is so much wanted by experts.
As you now I purchased AK Shah Munifeh (the Aaroufa female tail line) when he was at side of his dam in 1988. that female line is very simlar to our imports, Gleannloch's and Plumgroves. He became one of our senior stallions and we exported his excellent daughters and sons to countries such as Italy, Switzerland,Germany, England, Venezuela, Canada , AE etc.etc. and all did well for their owners. He produced multiple champions and at age 20 looks and acts like a 10 year old. And his get produced also well. One can see what they are like on our website.
I often get so upset, even angry, when such dumb statements are made, indicating such total ignorance, How do we ever end up with people like that in our industry? they onely see one thing, have blinkers on and never ever look at all bloodlines, which should include all "Asil" bloodlines, be it Davenport,Doyle, etc.etc. If one wants to breed a functional horse, one must go about it without sunglasses on, must respect a good horse when one sees it, even if it is not such person's type. The sooner we teach in seminars what a good horse is supposed to be like and forget about pointing out deformed heads, but rather teach the "Jibba" to be recognized, etc.etc. or forego good conformation points to make a horse stand up and do what it is supposed to we be so far ahead..
I think often of Albert Gibault, how carefully he bred his horses, how he travelled thousands of miles throughout this continent to look at Arabs, and even have a video when he was one of the first seeing us and the imports in 1968 and 1970. I considered him one of our finest breeders and a true Gentleman..
Or I think of old Mr sheets (Grandfather of young Billy- all now dead) who brought the first Straight egyptian to Canada, "Abgar" (1964 (Fa-Serr x Fa-Abba) when a weanling, bred by Babson. I remember him well, a blood bay, about 14,2 hands tall looking like a 15hander, absolutely georgeous outstanding stallion, a flying machine. And there are many other truly outstanding Babsons, just look at the Bruce Jonson herd and their accomplishments or how well Susan Mayo is doing with the babsons.
Ignorance is bliss, and we simply have to ignore such folks.I wish they would start breeding Goldfish, then they can flush their mistakes down the toilet.
Joined: 13-January 08
From: Schulenburg, Texas
Member No.: 10644
Well, Ehco, I guess I am comparing them to the Crabbet horses because they were the foundation of so many of our modern bloodlines today and because the Arabs I fell in love with were Crabbet. The Arabs we started with were Crabbet bred, all with Serafix breeding. We started with several Serafix daughters. Everyone told us when we started buying straights that we should watch it because the straights were much hotter. Ha! they were the same as our Crabbet bred Serafix horses. The straights, at least a lot of them did not have the huge eyes my Serafix horses did. So, that is why I compare them to the Crabbet bred Arabs. If you look at Serafix's pedigree you will see that he was all Abbas Phasha breeding except for the two lines to Skowronek. He was a brilliant chestnut, he had a full brother that was grey and they were totally different types. And, I believe he was tail female Rose of Sharon. It's been a long time since I even thought about all this. I'll have to look it up again, don't hold me to info now, it's hard when you have crs syndrome.