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> Statement Regarding *exochorda, For The Record...
Caryn Rogosky
post Jul 12 2008, 07:51 PM
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Many of you know that I have been casually researching the history of the mare known mostly as *Exochorda for quite a few years. In that time I have collected a great deal of information regarding the history of the horses, people and places associated with *Exochorda, and I have written about this from time to time. There is a great deal of newly uncovered information to report on this topic, and research obtained by myself and Marilyn Lang during our recent stay in Egypt has expanded the file substantially. I am in the process of putting together a comprehensive article, booklet, book, or whatever size publication is required to present this case in a complete and thorough format in the near future.
In the meantime, I wish to go on record with the following statement:

*Exochorda, known in Egypt as Leila II and/or Marquita, is absolutely and without question qualified as a Straight Egyptian. She was conceived in Egypt of Asil desert bred parents, born in Egypt in the possession of a famous breeder in association with and under the supervision of the RAS. Furthermore, she came to America from the Royal Stables of Egypt.

Substantive evidence and documents will be provided to support the above statement within the publication, and with the permission of Oliver and Alexsi, I will present an outline of these on this forum.
Caryn Rogosky
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HLM
post Jul 15 2008, 04:27 PM
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Dear Diane

yes, that is correct.

When in 1968 I asked Doug Marshal what would happen with these treasured imports, in case our children dont care, or there are none to take over. Doug replied: I never thought of it but will. Three weeks later I received his correspondence and telphone call what I would think about creating and naming a society for it, he suggested "the Pyramid Society" I found this to be wonderful and this is how it started. While I had to run three other my companies, I did not want to get on the board, knowing that I would not have the time to spent, but recommend by husband instead, which was accepted, stayed however on top of all things from that day on. Alive are Still Bill winters, a founder director, who can confirm this.

Then inclusion for the PS were particular breeders of the past in Egypt, having bred and or owned particular bloodlines. Private breedes were accepted such as Al Badeia Stud, Sherif Family, Danny Barbara, Hamsa Stud, Police College Cairo (their Alexandria annex did not breed horses, they trained).
there was no mention of private breeders of either Ibish or Capt.Olms.

Exochorda was therefore at the start accepted, because of the believe that she was bred by the RAS, when the RAS never owned either parents or her.
Only upon my objection, when I found out, I advised Walter Schimanski who made the root list on the instructions of Judi Forbis, which at start I did not check, nor did doug Marshall. Walter then realized the error but nothing was done about it.
He himself had quite a few horses with this bloodline and was a close friend to Mrs Ott., breeder of Sirrecho. Therefore technically, Exochorda is not an Se, but accepted because the error was never corrected.

Raswan also did not catch the error, simply went by the AHRa registration when checking, as he did with many herd books/stud books to establish his valuable Raswan Index. He died long before it was found out. (in 1960 I think)

It appears to me that nobody has any objection with this bloodline, I certainly never did) to produce some good horses, which it has, and many I saw I like, but with the money they could suddenly charge using the Se label it became a hot commodity. Many forgot that we oldtimer importers put the Se on the international map , spent millions together for its welfare and preservation ,with the incredible performance those shown have made and years later others simply wanted to cash in on it, but never following in the footsteps of Babson, Gleannloch, Ansata, Serenity, Pritzlaff, Plumgrove,Flick,Larsen,Heber etc and others. Rick Heber actually lost his life in a plane crash in Egypt, trying to import some more many years ago.

We really do not know anything much about the data of the parents, other than both raced well, while their only offspring did not do that good on the track.
But we do know that these parents as listed came from reliable bedu sources
as did the ancestors of other Ses.

As you now might understand, it is NOT the Asil status the mare has, it is the LABEL accredited to her which made fortunes to some people here and many were badly hurt. I say this also when you like to compare other "Asils" here like the Doyle Arabians and the Davenports. They bring a fraction in money of what the SEs used too and are just as well bred and their value established in their under saddle performance, as it should be.

As none of the breeders/organizations mentioned had any connetion,ownership etc of Exochorda or her listed parents, I cant wait to hear how they suddenly have, found through new hidden evidence. She was never registered in Egypt either, nor in any herdbook or other document I could trace. Not in Lebanon,tunesia,Morocco, or Persian regions either. However, I suspect that she indeed was importet from a desert country to the Egyptian Race Track, as her parents were. Of course to have these parents, they both would have to be stationed pretty close to each there at that time to mate.
And who could afford to own a horse to just look at, at that time in Egypt?
And that for so many years? However, this is my opinion and I gladly stand corrected with bonafide data coming from reputable, trustworthy people, who condemn lies and fabrications and have a spotless reputation..

Take care
hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms



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Posts in this topic
- Caryn Rogosky   Statement Regarding *exochorda   Jul 12 2008, 07:51 PM
- - Chiron   FANTASTIC The truth will out.   Jul 12 2008, 08:05 PM
- - lila1989   Thats great news, I love researchers. Monique   Jul 12 2008, 08:55 PM
- - Nadj al Nur   Wonderful. Caryn. I hope it's a book. I want o...   Jul 12 2008, 09:16 PM
- - barbara.gregory   Eagerly awaiting an update; great that we have peo...   Jul 13 2008, 02:46 PM
- - 2mntn   Caryn, Following is a quote from the El Zahraa th...   Jul 13 2008, 03:36 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Thank you very much Ladies. The circumstances of E...   Jul 14 2008, 03:54 AM
- - HLM   Dear Pete Nothing and nobody can be 100 bad excep...   Jul 14 2008, 10:43 AM
- - Mr Prospector   This information on this mare should be of interes...   Jul 14 2008, 10:47 AM
- - HLM   Dear Karen I never could understand the emotion a...   Jul 14 2008, 11:01 AM
- - katarin   ...   Jul 14 2008, 11:07 AM
- - Gari   Caryn, Am absolutely thrilled to read this and th...   Jul 14 2008, 11:08 AM
- - diane   QUOTE (Mr Prospector @ Jul 14 2008, 08:47 PM)...   Jul 14 2008, 11:51 AM
- - Gari   Katerin, One and the same...and If Dr. Marei isn...   Jul 14 2008, 12:16 PM
- - katarin   ...   Jul 14 2008, 12:24 PM
- - Oliver   Dear Katarin, be sure that Nasr Marei knows what h...   Jul 14 2008, 12:50 PM
- - Marilyn Lang   Hi Katarin, Yes, Laheeb has the distinct honor of...   Jul 14 2008, 01:00 PM
- - Liz Salmon   I think this is great news and goes to show how da...   Jul 14 2008, 01:51 PM
- - HLM   Dear Oliver I honestly cant believe what I am rea...   Jul 14 2008, 01:53 PM
- - HLM   Liz (s) who condemned this bloodline? Why go to t...   Jul 14 2008, 02:05 PM
- - Pete Hiatt   My post has been removed. It simply atated that no...   Jul 14 2008, 03:34 PM
- - Demelza Hoogeveen   Hi Karen, Al Badeia already has used the Exochorda...   Jul 14 2008, 03:38 PM
- - HLM   Dear Pete What I do not like when personal attack...   Jul 14 2008, 03:52 PM
- - 2mntn   Hello Pete, I did not read your post before you r...   Jul 14 2008, 03:53 PM
- - Nadj al Nur   Precisely the point Ray. Facts do not change, no m...   Jul 14 2008, 03:57 PM
- - Sabrina+Karsten   Who is the breeder in the current AHRA database?   Jul 14 2008, 04:22 PM
- - 2mntn   Everyone, There is a mistaken perception that I a...   Jul 14 2008, 04:31 PM
- - HLM   Dear Ray thank you, I agree. It is our opinions w...   Jul 14 2008, 05:15 PM
- - Pete Hiatt   Hansi and I have our areas of agreements and our a...   Jul 14 2008, 05:50 PM
- - Gari   Dear Pete, So far agree with you about all until ...   Jul 14 2008, 07:23 PM
- - HLM   Gari am so sorry to disappoint you, but some of ...   Jul 14 2008, 08:09 PM
- - 2mntn   Here is a quote from an article by Joe Achcar: ...   Jul 14 2008, 08:14 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Hi All, I would very much like to see this discuss...   Jul 14 2008, 08:59 PM
- - JMO   Hi Caryn, thank you for your explanation and I...   Jul 14 2008, 11:11 PM
- - Pete Hiatt   Gari, I am shocked that you consider any more than...   Jul 14 2008, 11:32 PM
- - set   I think anyone contemplating buying an Egyptians w...   Jul 15 2008, 12:36 AM
- - Gari   You can buy the book that will be out next year, h...   Jul 15 2008, 12:47 AM
- - Pete Hiatt   I am ripped between you being delusional or simply...   Jul 15 2008, 01:11 AM
- - 1rider   hello all whats the piont. the firs post said they...   Jul 15 2008, 04:20 AM
- - 2mntn   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Jul 14 2008, 09:59 PM)...   Jul 15 2008, 04:36 AM
- - Nadj al Nur   Ken........(and any others, who haven't read i...   Jul 15 2008, 04:54 AM
- - Demelza Hoogeveen   For those who missed it here it is again: http://w...   Jul 15 2008, 05:01 AM
- - 1rider   Thanks great article. so it still up in the air a...   Jul 15 2008, 05:53 AM
- - Nadj al Nur   That's possible Ken, since not very many resea...   Jul 15 2008, 05:58 AM
- - 1rider   See this is good stuff. why i come to this forum....   Jul 15 2008, 06:04 AM
- - katarin   ...   Jul 15 2008, 06:27 AM
- - 1rider   why would you breed a related stallion to an se ma...   Jul 15 2008, 07:33 AM
- - 1rider   QUOTE (katarin @ Jul 15 2008, 07:27 AM)Dear O...   Jul 15 2008, 08:48 AM
- - katarin   ...   Jul 15 2008, 09:15 AM
- - peter   Dear Katarin, I absolutely agree with you. I pers...   Jul 15 2008, 11:38 AM
- - Arabiansummer   QUOTE (peter @ Jul 15 2008, 12:38 PM)And the ...   Jul 15 2008, 01:00 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Quote Ken: "hello all whats the piont. the fi...   Jul 15 2008, 01:45 PM
- - HLM   Dear All Of course the PS can decide at any time ...   Jul 15 2008, 01:46 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Quote Peter: " I mentioned it on this forum b...   Jul 15 2008, 01:58 PM
- - HLM   Dear Katarin I truly dont understand why you aske...   Jul 15 2008, 02:00 PM
- - HLM   Yes Peter, I agree, but you forgot one thing...   Jul 15 2008, 02:03 PM
- - HLM   Dear all what I will never condone are outragous ...   Jul 15 2008, 02:15 PM
- - An American Breeder   STOP THE FIGHTING ! ! I, for one, am SI...   Jul 15 2008, 02:17 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Quote Hansi: "Now lets hear what new inventio...   Jul 15 2008, 02:18 PM
- - Diana   I thought Exochorda was accepted by the Pyramid So...   Jul 15 2008, 02:28 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Quote Diana: "I thought Exochorda was accepte...   Jul 15 2008, 02:52 PM
- - 2mntn   Can anyone answer my question from post # 40? Tha...   Jul 15 2008, 02:57 PM
- - Sabrina+Karsten   Quote Ken: "Hansi doesnt question the purity ...   Jul 15 2008, 03:01 PM
- - HLM   Yes Diane she was, based on their belief that she ...   Jul 15 2008, 03:03 PM
- - katarin   ...   Jul 15 2008, 03:14 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Quote Sabrina and Karsten: 'this is ABSOLUTELY...   Jul 15 2008, 03:16 PM
- - HLM   Katatrin, are you sure you are okay? You read thin...   Jul 15 2008, 03:18 PM
- - Sabrina+Karsten   Wouldn't an objective, unbiased researcher typ...   Jul 15 2008, 03:20 PM
- - HLM   Thanks Sabrina and Karsten I would not reply to c...   Jul 15 2008, 03:23 PM
- - Sabrina+Karsten   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Jul 15 2008, 04:16 PM)...   Jul 15 2008, 03:30 PM
- - Diana   Dear Katarin, when the PS accepted Exochorda as st...   Jul 15 2008, 03:47 PM
- - 2mntn   Well, I guess nobody knows who the founding member...   Jul 15 2008, 03:55 PM
- - Marilyn Lang   Hansi, I personally would like a reply to Caryn...   Jul 15 2008, 04:03 PM
- - 2mntn   QUOTE (Diana @ Jul 15 2008, 04:47 PM)Dear Kat...   Jul 15 2008, 04:05 PM
- - Nadj al Nur   Ray,I think you must know that very high quality ...   Jul 15 2008, 04:15 PM
- - Sabrina+Karsten   Dear Caryn, I wonder how anyone can say about Han...   Jul 15 2008, 04:25 PM
- - Kimberli Nelson   There is not a single LABEL that our horses have t...   Jul 15 2008, 04:36 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Quote Sabrina: "Surely, but what are the new...   Jul 15 2008, 04:46 PM
- - placido   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Jul 15 2008, 03:18 PM)...   Jul 15 2008, 04:56 PM
- - Sabrina+Karsten   Thank you very much for clarifying yours and/or Ka...   Jul 15 2008, 05:09 PM
- - Sabrina+Karsten   Dear Caryn, can you please send me the name of th...   Jul 15 2008, 05:17 PM
- - Chiron   WOW The Topic That Wouldn't Die If I re...   Jul 15 2008, 05:24 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Hi Sabrina, I would like to help but have told yo...   Jul 15 2008, 05:56 PM
- - Sabrina+Karsten   Hi Caryn, as I said - there is/was no pressure ag...   Jul 15 2008, 06:30 PM
- - peter   Dear ArabianSummer, I have witnessed several situ...   Jul 15 2008, 06:46 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Sabrina said: "as I said - there is/was no pr...   Jul 15 2008, 06:59 PM
- - 2mntn   Hello Caryn, You have stated a biased opinion, wh...   Jul 15 2008, 07:07 PM
- - Nadj al Nur   Unless the documentation is there to back up their...   Jul 15 2008, 07:16 PM
- - HLM   Dear Sabrina and Karsten the person making these ...   Jul 15 2008, 07:45 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   First, let me say that *Exochorda is a Pyramid Soc...   Jul 15 2008, 07:49 PM
- - Pete Hiatt   Nasralla: This case has been put to bed. Nasralla ...   Jul 15 2008, 07:49 PM
- - Kimberli Nelson   I guess we will just have to buy all the books, OR...   Jul 15 2008, 07:55 PM
- - Daceena   QUOTE (Kimberli Nelson @ Jul 15 2008, 08:55 P...   Jul 15 2008, 08:05 PM
- - peter   Exactly, Pete !! But the fact remains that...   Jul 15 2008, 08:10 PM
- - 2mntn   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Jul 15 2008, 08:49 PM)...   Jul 15 2008, 08:25 PM
- - Kimberli Nelson   I have had a pretty bad day today. Last night I lo...   Jul 15 2008, 08:30 PM
- - 2mntn   OH Kimberli, that is so sad! Sorry to hear ab...   Jul 15 2008, 08:51 PM
- - Kimberli Nelson   QUOTE (2mntn @ Jul 15 2008, 09:51 PM)BTW - do...   Jul 15 2008, 08:56 PM
- - 2mntn   How the hell did I get in to this mess???   Jul 15 2008, 08:58 PM
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