Arabs In Us Racing, Looking for information Options

[deby]

Martha-
Its thanks to owners like you who keep tabs on their horses that not all trainers do things like that with the steriods.
I never got the number of days it takes for the steriods to come out, but I know for a fact that 2 very good TB trainers and one arabian trainer here use them on all their horses in training.

Don't get me wrong, a horse that bleeds should get lasixs, but there in no chance that every arabian in racing bleeds, and if you look at the amount actually on lasixs, its well over 95% (here anyways.) One of our three bleeds, we got all scooped after their first breeze to check and again after their first races to check. One bled slightly, so he is on the lowest amount of lasixs we are allowed to keep him on. But we do the same thing you do, keep him hydrated.
on a more personal note-
I wish I got to come out and see you, but when we come back in Feb it will be top priority!!! Did you see our win pic in the other thread?!?! Its so freaking exciting.... I ended up ordering 12 copies...... if i can figure out a place to scan it I will send you a better quality pic!! And you can totally see what I was telling you about on the phone, the jockey gave him his head and let him run exactly how he wanted!!!!!!


Deby

[morabene]

I know the steriods are a problem, but a well conditioned horse will beat them. I've learned that. It takes a long time to get it out of their bodies. I hope it becomes illegal everywhere. Testing will get more sophisticated to find it. They usually test the top 3 horses in the races here and sometimes someone who does not perform as expected.

Mine run on the lowest dose of lasixs. I know everyone runs on it down here too for the most part. I was told greys are more likely to bleed. I think the bad air in Houston plays a factor in it. We are nearly as bad as Los Angles. It's sad. I just don't want to injure them if it can be avoided.

I did see your win picture and you read my mind. I want to see a better version of it. I sent it on to Corliss. She'll want to see it. I could see the jockey gave him his head that was a smart move. Balance knew how to win.

When you get a chance catch a flight down here. Aria is getting ready to start some official works in the next few weeks. There are a couple of races coming up in Dec. I'd sure like her to be ready for them. I want to come up to see everybody this spring. I do think Balance needs some extracurricular activities this spring with Mia.

Martha

[2mntn]

Hi Deby,

What do you mean by bleeding? What bleeds and why?

Ray

[morabene]

Ray,
The lungs bleed. They don't know why, but a horse's lungs are under a tremendous pressure when they do a short burst of high speed. They've found they bleed in racing, in barrel racing and I believe in cutting and possibly reining. Lasix is a diuretic, some how it prevents or minimizes the bleeding. They can die from bleeding so it's important to avoid, plus they get scar tissue from bleeding. They are given lasixs and deprived water for 4 hours only before the race. Water is given immeadiately afterwards. They've found horses on electrolites are more likely to bleed, but they need the electrolites in the summer from all the sweating so is it the work or the electorlites? I've seen it once and I don't to see it again.

Martha

[calicoarab]

Ray- the term is EIPH, or exercise induced pulmonary hemorraging. The extreme pressure will sometimes rupture the capellaries in the upper airways. Usually the horse appears to have anywhere from a mild to moderate nosebleed, but sometimes it can be severe enough the horse can collapse. A very mild case may not even show a nosebleed, but it can still interfere with the animals breathing. I had 3 horses that I sent out for training between 2000-2004, and none of them showed any sign of EIPH. We did scope the upper airway to be certain though. It is not uncommon in Thorobreds & QHs'. Since the lasix is a diuretic, it drops the blood pressure, and the capellaries do not tend to rupture.

[2mntn]

WHOA!! EIPH, huh? I'd better go look it up and see if conditioning helps, or if this is a characteristic of the horse that can't be changed. Sounds like one more thing to add to either the "worry" list and/or the "expense" list - probably both.

So is there a vet standing by at the track to scope horses right after races? Or are you on your own to decide if they need it or not?

Ray

[2mntn]

Here's a thing I found:

Making sure the horse's lungs are healthy is possible with the development of the broncho-alviolar lavage (BAL), a means of assessing the health of the lung tissue in a very accurate way. Dr. Andrew Hoffman is field testing a portable lung function test that should further improve our diagnostic abilities.

No date on it, so I don't know if this is something available now, or what??

Ray

[2mntn]

I wonder if any of the endurance folks have had this EIPH thing?

How about you, Mike (Heirloom) anything like this on the match races - with yours or did you see it with anyone else?

Ray

[calicoarab]

Hi Ray! My trainer requested the track vet to scope my horses, as there was no visible evidence of any bleeding. Sometimes low level bleeding will be just enough to make the horse a little "off", maybe not finish as strongly as usual. There is no agreement about the cause though. Some speculation of a genetic link, but just as much of a chance it is conditioning, or lack there of. Anyway, just as with ulcers, now that we have the tools to better see what is going on, there is as they say more than meets the eye. I think that with endurance horses you would see less EIPH, since there is a sustainbed effort on the horses part, rather than a shorter more intense effort. Would like to hear from some of our eventing people, though. How 'bout it? Sharon Jackson, is this an issue with eventing horses? And if so, how do you deal with it?

Sandy

[morabene]

Ray
There are usually several vets at the track in the morning when horses work and at when they race. Getting a vet is not usually an issue. I've also found they're cheaper then the regular horse vet as is the farrier. Surprise surprise, but I digress. The vet can be scheduled to scope immeadiately after a work or after a race. It is obvious something is going on when a horse works and suddenly just stops so to speak. They go from very fast to let's do a showring canter down the stretch. This can be many things, but breathing issues are always suspect. Some can be solved by changing equipment, with surgery or with lasixs. Often you can hear a breathing issue as the horse gallops. I've heard them roaring down the track so to speak from the side in the morning. The rider will tell the trainer there is an issue. A mild gutteral pouch infection can cause breathing problems too. There are many causes.

I don't think endurance is so much a contender for bleeding b/c its a long extended work, none of those horses are going at a high intense speed over a short time. Barrel racing, maybe eventing, but I don't see those horses galloping at racing speeds. But maybe with the intensity of jumping along with the galloping? Lasix is being used by barrel racers. If pollution is an issue with it, since most tracks are in the cities, endurance riders are usually out aways from civilization instead by a major freeway surrounded by the city.

[2mntn]

Thanks Martha - all good stuff to know! I guess them endurance folks aren't paying any attention - or it's not an issue with them.

Ray

[morabene]

I'm guessing its not an issue. Blood coming from a horse's nose will get our attention or else its more subtle and they aren't aware of it.

[2mntn]

Hey Martha - did you see that thread about "Walker Machines"? I'm wondering if you use an excerciser or a walker, or ?? The folks who market that exercisor told me they have a lot of them installed at racing facilities (breeders and trainers).

[morabene]

I have used them. There is one at the track. It's referred to as the wheel. The track charges a set fee for it. You can go a mile, 2 miles or 3 at a big trot or a slow gallop. They are fun to use. The horses like it, but have to learn how to use it. There is a learning curve. A person is always there to monitor the horses to try to avoid accidents.

I used on at a boarding barn. Bayfire loved it. I'd put him in it at a strong trot for 45 minutes. He worked up to this. There is no telling how many miles he'd trot. Ibn Shai thought it was a giant toy. He would attack the front gate and trying to herd it. He had a great time bouncing up and down in there. They can turn on the electricity to fry the pony.

I have friend who trains tbs successfully. She has one at her barn. She'll put several horses in it at a time, but with the electricty on to keep them off the gates. She likes the fact that the horses can get condition on them at a trot w/o a rider on their back. They still need to gallop at the track but not as often.

Swimming is another good way to condition. Mine have all been swum. They seem to like it.