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> Buyer/Seller Communication -Patience-Understanding, Topic Name Change
Liz Salmon
post Feb 26 2009, 01:06 AM
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HLM
post Feb 26 2009, 04:51 PM
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thanks liz
some of us already prepared a black list, covering me agents.
hansi biggrin.gif
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alrayan
post Feb 26 2009, 10:39 PM
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hi liz i am the ..This guy has been phoning and emailing so many SE breeders in the US. He says he's from the Middle East and lives in Panama. He's after cheap SE horses. Don't waste your time with him !! i am arabec yes i live in panama and i searching the best pedegri and the best look and the best price wich the problem with this o i have to buy from your web site and if i not so iam the pad man .
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Liz Salmon
post Feb 26 2009, 11:12 PM
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Alrayan, I have had several complaints from my clients that you have made offers on horses and then not followed through, when the offer was accepted. One person held a horse for 3 weeks and then never heard from you. This prevented other buyers from trying to purchase this horse because she thought he was sold and that you were buying him.

For breeders to take you seriously you need to make a firm offer, which if it is accepted, you then sign a sales contract followed by wiring the money. It can take a week to do that not several weeks. You need to tell breeders what your price is for each horse, so they can tell you if they have something to suit you.

I apologise if I have offended you, but we have had rather too many time wasters shopping for cheap horses. The Egyptian breeders are a comparatively small group and do check with each other when they get a request for buying a horse that does not seem very genuine. I try to protect many of my clients that's all. Good luck in finding the right horses.
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HLM
post Feb 27 2009, 02:00 PM
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liz, you are doing the right thing. also i, my friends exchange information. i would never deal with this man, he is unethical in what he was doing.already shopping for prices shoul tell us everything.

hansi biggrin.gif
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Liz Salmon
post Feb 27 2009, 06:25 PM
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I think that there was a lot of miscommunication here as well as a big language problem. I have since had the situation explained to me. Alrayan is not ready to buy horses until June, but was contacting owners and did not explain that he was only looking at the moment. He does have a budget limit on each horse. I apologised to him for misreading the situation and hope that when he is ready to buy, he will contact some of you again. Sadly he does not want The Minstril bloodlines, because there are a lot of good ones out there.

I am trying to learn some Arabic, so I can be of more help in these sort of situations. I will be going out to Dubai at the end of next month with Rhonda Davis and hope to be able to help some of you market your horses over there. Small breeders need to have more exposure to the International market in these economic times, which is very active at the moment.
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Cheryl L
post Feb 27 2009, 06:52 PM
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Hansi,
Shopping for prices is about what the most of us can do. We have to find horses with good bloodlines, that will fit in our budget. Finding out the price of a horse at the beginning, can prevent a major waste of time for everyone.

Liz,
Thank you for explaining the situation.

Cheryl
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Dieter
post Feb 28 2009, 11:35 AM
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Dear Alrayan,

There is nothing wrong with looking at many, many horses and trying to get the best price. Most sellers expect that buyers are looking for the best horses at the best price. Even buyers in the USA do this same thing, even those from the big barns do this same thing - all hoping to find that hidden gem at the best price.

I want to wish you the best in chasing your dreams and hope one day you have a stable full of horses that make your heart sing.

Best Wishes for your future,

Liz Dieter
JEVA Farms LLC
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KGH
post Feb 28 2009, 01:07 PM
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I think in these times, with the current economical situation many are facing, 1.7 million jobs were lost this past month in the United States, finding a great home for a great horse is important. Those you turn away today, may be tomorrow's buyer. wink.gif Now is an excellent time to meet new people, visit farms, form new friendships and relationships, learn, ask, inquire, browse, shop around, ask other breeders about their horses and plans, work together, discuss, network, help each other out, etc.

Kelly Hughes
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HLM
post Feb 28 2009, 02:47 PM
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dear liz and all

may be you all misunderstand my saying' shopping for prices etc'

when a person picks an inferior horse over a good one to save a few thousand dollars, it cant be a selection for sound breeding stock.
furthermore depleting the usa of the few good ses left, owned by and large by our smaller breeders and paying prices for which a horse cant even be maintained for a year cant be the right thing to do. i understand that it is necesary for some, but so sad. also, i dont have the answer of preventing it.

hansi biggrin.gif
serenity arabian farms
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carolmaginn
post Feb 28 2009, 04:00 PM
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For what its worth, I think that breeders sharing information about unethical buyers is a good thing to do. I hate to hear stories about how one breeder was taken in and then people hide this information and the next breeder gets taken in and so on and so on.

This is not related to this particular buyer or any particular person at all by the way. But in my opinion the only way to stop unethical people from continuing to get away with this behavior is to warn others. Pick up the phone if you must and let people know if they are about to sell a horse to someone who based on past behavior won't honor their payment terms.

Thanks,

Carol

QUOTE (HLM @ Feb 27 2009, 09:00 AM)
liz, you are doing the right thing. also i, my friends exchange information. i would never deal with this man, he is unethical in what he was doing.already shopping for prices shoul tell us everything.

hansi biggrin.gif
serenity arabian farms
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Egyptians
post Mar 1 2009, 05:03 AM
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Does anyone know the seriousness of an Aladdin ChaCha with a 201 area code?
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Dieter
post Mar 1 2009, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE (Liz Salmon @ Feb 26 2009, 07:12 PM)
One person held a horse for 3 weeks and then never heard from you. This prevented other buyers from trying to purchase this horse because she thought he was sold and that you were buying him. I apologise if I have offended you, but we have had rather too many time wasters shopping for cheap horses.
*
I have a different take on this line of thinking.

Sellers need to understand that a horse is NOT sold until the money is in the bank (contract or no contract). In other words, sellers should not be "holding" a horse for any buyer until the money is in the bank. If the seller chooses to "hold" an uncontracted horse and pass on a sale to a different buyer (while this alleged holding takes place), they can blame themselves (for counting their chickens before the eggs were hatched).

Buyers need to understand that a horse they are interested in remains for sale to the first buyer who deposits the sales price (or a good faith deposit) into the sellers bank account. If a buyer is seriously interested in buying a horse, they need to understand time is of the essence to deposit money into the sellers account or face the very real prospect of losing that horse to a different buyer. Most buyers know that it is a buyer's market in horse sales. Sellers should be aware of that too.

Contracts are a simple tool to spell out what seller and buyer expect from one another. They are intended to eliminate confusion. If either party does not perform on the contract, the performing party has two ethical options. They can bring suit or they can take their losses, if any, as lessons learned and simply move forward. As anyone with experience in "suing" for breach of contract knows, it is an expensive proposition often resulting in proving a point only. Suing internationally is all but impossible.

I like what Kelly said:
QUOTE
Those you turn away today, may be tomorrow's buyer.
and think tire kickers eventually do buy a horse from someone. So long as sellers keep what I've written above in mind, no one need chastise or malign the "shoppers" or what many refer to as the "tire kickers". biggrin.gif

In regards to what Carol has said:
QUOTE
For what its worth, I think that breeders sharing information about unethical buyers is a good thing to do. I hate to hear stories about how one breeder was taken in and then people hide this information and the next breeder gets taken in and so on and so on.
This would appear on the surface as a great tool for breeders, and might even work in theory, but in reality, there are two sides to every story. How would I know if the story I heard from Breeder A about Breeder B was true unless I heard both sides AND saw all the evidence in the case? Without seeing the "evidence", the rhetoric is meaningless. Too often, the information (or more appropriately termed as RUMORS) shared between breeders is simply a tool employed by a circle of friends to steer people back into their own circle of friends. These rumors, outright lies and criticisms abound, as you know, without a shred of evidence to support them - yet, some people will take whatever is said as the gospel truth, like in this instance with Alrayan, and pass judgement on another without ever having spoke to the person they've passed judgement on. Ultimately, no one knows who to believe and that works VERY WELL for unethical people to continue their practices.

Egyptians, that name sounds like it could be a dance ohmy.gif I have not heard of this name before so cannot offer any advice or opinion.

Kind Regards,

Liz Dieter
JEVA Farms LLC
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Scott
post Mar 1 2009, 02:54 PM
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Hi All,
I need to put in my opinion on this subject! I'm not sure I completely understand what is going on with these agents/brokers...are they new to selling? Have they ever sold anything before? Anyway, here's how I have survived the last 20 years selling, importing or building product lines for companys or individuals. Let's take importing for a company in the USA,they want a product that I can provide through China..... the money is wired to my account, when the money is verified the products leave the port in china to a port in the usa! The money is the only reason the products are shipped! It's a done deal. A deal on paper is not closed until the money is in your hands....... or it's no deal at all. Once the seller is convinced the buyer is right for one of their beloved horses and feels comfortable selling their horse to them ....These agents/brokers and even owners that are selling horses need to remember "Show Me The Money" then the horse or horses are yours! If they can't........keep selling the horse!

Scott
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HLM
post Mar 1 2009, 03:11 PM
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hi all

when price shopping goes on, it makes buyers compete in the wrong direction. the horse then becomes a commodity. everbody should have a firm price on their sales horses and stick by it. no se female should be sold under for pennies., unless it is useless junk, or sold as a pet.this will cut agents out, who anyway double and triple the original sales price. it also assures that the horses you all love get a chance of going into the right hands. please dont deplete our resources.

a good broodmare should bring a good price, so should a good colt.

regards to all
hansi biggrin.gif
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