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> Buyer/Seller Communication -Patience-Understanding, Topic Name Change
wildheartdb
post Mar 18 2009, 06:17 PM
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Thank you SKM. I appreciate your remarks very much. I am open minded and have enormous respect for ALL THINGS GREAT, especially horses, no matter the breed! My only caveat is that I like to see proof of greatness, ie statistics etc and wish we could do more for our wonderful SE's to produce same.! smile.gif In the end, a spade is a spade and a horse is a horse and true greatness (and beauty) stands the test of time in all respects.

In the photo Liz was so kind as to attach for me (thanks Liz!), the horse in the picture is a beatiful model of near perfect equine conformation and as such remains historically unrivaled in his accomplishments. Just because his croup is not flat ,his neck not higher set, and his head not "dishier" does not exclude him from being not only beautiful, but nothing short of an equine wonder. Greatness personified. In this example, the proof is in the pudding and that is irrefutable. How could one resist respect and admiration for such a marvelous creature?

Thus the TB was JUST AN EXAMPLE! I feel we would be well served to embrace things that are different, be more objective and open minded. Our horses and our industry would stand to gain much. The world is full of many beautiful animals...favorites aside, so I humbly suggest that we all appreciate more than just our own fingers and toes. LOL!
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wildheartdb
post Mar 18 2009, 07:19 PM
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SKM you are right! This is an original photo of mine, taken after he was retired to Claiborne Farm. As you can see he is no longer in racing condition, rather has put on some pounds and is quite relaxed in his role as a sire. However "unfit" he remained perfect form to function if there ever was! biggrin.gif
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Robert 1
post Mar 18 2009, 09:20 PM
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Hi Wildheartdb,
Of course we all need to appreciate more than our own, regardless of what it may be, the world is full of beauty, and Secretariat is another. biggrin.gif
To tell a bit of a short story, I would stop in at the local watering hole back in the days when Secretariat was racing and would lay down a few bucks and bet on Secretariat to the unsuspecting patrons who were not up to date on what a unmatched race horse he was. laugh.gif
I even watched on tv one day as they displayed him prior to a big race and his handler would let Secretariat eat as much grain as he wished from a large metal washtub and said he runs better on a full stomach. laugh.gif
Secretatiat is another of my favorite TB horses. biggrin.gif
I trained Quarter horses, son of Dreamfinder, and gaited Walking horses for clients, I try to find beauty in all, not just Arabians but, the Arabians are the near and dear for me. biggrin.gif wink.gif
Robert
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windanseur
post Mar 19 2009, 12:20 AM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Mar 6 2009, 11:54 AM)
  Too, I have a few clients overseas (having recently sold one of mine to Bahrain without an agent) and they are always looking for good horses.  Of course, it is helpful to see the horses in the flesh and take purposeful conformation photos of them, so an in-person visit is definitely in order.  As an example, three horses went to Bahrain including my horse.  Of those three, just my own met their expectations (formed upon photos/video) and will be retained by the buyer for his own herd (and I am happy to report she'll be bred to Ansata Hejazi or Ward Al Rayyan this year).  The other two will most likely be sold.  That is the danger for the buyer of buying a horse in the USA based upon photos and video, going to the expense and headache of exporting them and for the seller as  your horse may be resold and losing touch is a real possibility.  If a seller is concerned about their horse being resold, they need to get photos that accurately depict what that horse is in the flesh, like these:
[attachment=93264:attachment][attachment=93265:attachment][attachment=93266:atta
chment][attachment=93268:attachment][attachment=93269:attachment][attachment=9327
0:attachment]
Because legs do matter to these buyers and as Hansi has said, many of these horses are used for flat racing and endurance.  These buyers are true horsemen.  Flag tail carriage and a pretty head are other considerations, so photos that represent the tail carriage and head well are also important, like these:
[attachment=93271:attachment][attachment=93272:attachment][attachment=93273:atta
chment]

Kindest Regards,

Liz Dieter
JEVA Farms LLC
*

Hi Liz D and all.

I don't post on here very often. As more than one of you knows, a full time job along with horses, family and life in general keeps us busy enough, but this particular thread affects me. As Liz is aware, I am the seller of one of the two mares that apparently washed out. Of course I am very disappointed and have been in contact with the buyer. What I was told was that my mare and the second mare in question were underweight and in very poor condition when they arrived in Kuwait. He said he had had an offer from someone to buy all 3 but had turned them down, and planned to go to Kuwait and re-evaluate in a week. I have no idea what happened as I am sure they did NOT leave Liz's premises like that and she has posted pictures of them at her farm in another thread. My mare doesn't appear to be a good traveller when it is over a long period of time as she lost weight between my place and Liz's when she had a long layover during the holidays. I did send photos of each angle of the mare, (mine, not professional beauty shots) along with home video, again, nothing fancy, but showed her walking going away and coming back, then at liberty. I also sent pictures of her sire and dam. She is a Farazdac granddaughter and has inherited some of his characteristics. She is a good mare, not a great one, and that is how I portrayed her. The buyer did have a vet exam as well and would not have purchased without a good report. I agree it would be nice if they could come in person. The photos I sent were of her in summer coat, however and she went overseas during the winter, unclipped. We can only do our best and try to be as accurate as possible. There have been no recriminations from the buyer, he doesn't feel that I misrepresented the horse, and while I am naturally concerned that she is taken care of and has a good home, there are no guarantees. I will hope that whether she is retained by the original buyer or re-sold that she will be in loving hands. I thank Liz for the good care she received at her hands. I know some of the logistics were a bit difficult as the original haul was over the Christmas holiday. Hopefully Allikad is over being a chew toy! I have no idea where that came from, it was a first for her! smile.gif

I would also like to thank those that have offered to help with translations etc. This particular buyer speaks very good English but I have had some phone calls and e-mails that were pretty much impossible for both parties. The next time I receive an inquiry from someone who has a difficult time with English, I will be sure to post a big HELP sign! I need to learn some arabic, it would certainly make things easier!

There are a lot of extremely knowledgable people in this forum and there is always something to be learned.
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Dieter
post Mar 19 2009, 02:20 AM
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QUOTE (windanseur @ Mar 18 2009, 08:20 PM)
Hi Liz D and all.
(snipped)  I will hope that whether she is retained by the original buyer or re-sold that she will be in loving hands. I thank Liz for the good care she received at her hands. I know some of the logistics were a bit difficult as the original haul was over the Christmas holiday. Hopefully Allikad is over being a chew toy! I have no idea where that came from, it was a first for her!  smile.gif (snipped) There are a lot of extremely knowledgable people in this forum and there is always something to be learned.
*
Thank you for this post. Farhanah was a very pretty, very sweet mare. Though she looked rough upon her arrival to my farm (after a LONG time in transit), she settled in quickly and blossomed over the following month into quite a good looking gal:
Attached Image
Attached Image

And she sure did like Bint Allikad! biggrin.gif Who was equally smitten with Farhanah. I liked her a lot too, she was sweet as can be. You have her sister for sale, right? Hmmm. biggrin.gif wink.gif

Bint Allikad was fortunate in that she was hefty when she left, and could have easily lost 60 - 80 pounds without looking thin. She was also what I call an "easy keeper" and very adaptable - nothing took her off feed. biggrin.gif

I am fairly confident that this buyer will ensure any horse he sells goes to a good home and if he does end up selling Farhanah, be sure to ask him how to contact her new owners and use Majid or Bachir for translation if need be. smile.gif It's great to have access to such kind gentlemen.

Liz
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windanseur
post Mar 19 2009, 08:11 PM
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Hi Liz,

Last I heard, (yesterday) there is still no final decision on Farhanah or the other mare. He is going to the Dubai show and wants to give them more time to recover. We'll wait and see. I'm glad Bint Allikad made it in style! Good for her, I wish Farhanah had taken a cue from her buddy! biggrin.gif

It will be exciting to see her (BA)shown. I'm sure he will let us know how they are doing. He's been very good about communicating. I wish they could all be that way. Yes, Farhanah's sister is for sale as well. I'm waiting for her to shed all that winter hair so I can take some decent pictures. tongue.gif I am hoping to re-breed their dam this spring. Now if I can just move some of my non SE's wink.gif

Thanks again!
Lisa
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snowman
post Apr 20 2009, 11:25 AM
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Hi ,

Im so glad I faund this topic.

I went throu all this and it was realy interesting reading. I will not go in to thet, bat I will go back to first topic abaut " Waste time clients".

Let me tell you abaut my case:

Mr from Panama contakted us a while ago and he asked for our SE mares,we gived him a offer and somehowe he agree for price and he asked us if we can faind him two more mares,so he can fulfill cotainer. Anyway, I tray to faind two more mares and I contakted many breeders in EU and I spend quite a loot time and money for telefon.

Finaly we got him two nice mares for realy resonable price. Then he asked me to faind aut how mach is trasport. We did call again many shippers and we finaly got this informacion. Bat I have felling thet somethink is not OK.

So my feelings was corekt,since this day we never hear from him again.

So you tell me now " What is thet" !!

Zoran
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Liz Salmon
post Apr 20 2009, 01:57 PM
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This is exactly what I was trying to protect breeders from with starting this thread in the first place.
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snowman
post Apr 20 2009, 02:02 PM
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I beliwe you and I wish I know this before, ....
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M.D.
post Feb 9 2012, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (KGH @ Mar 1 2009, 04:22 PM) *
Good post Liz D. We live in a fast paced society which favors instant gratification. Patience is a virtue. But I can still remember the days prior to the internet, where selling a horse involved an actual 'visit' to the farm to see the horse, meet the breeders, tour the farm, see ALL their horses, try a few out under saddle if this were the case, and often two-three follow up visits to see other horses around the countryside "recommending" the buyer to comparison shop and see what else is out there. Afterall, the goal was customer satisfaction and better to see a good (lifetime) fit than a horse resold and shuffled around from buyer to buyer. People worked off of 'recommendations' and not condemnations. If we didn't have a horse that fit a buyer, we referred them to a friend.

Have we all become so spoiled to think that several emails, a few photos and a video and a price is all it takes to convince a buyer to act now?

Have you ever heard the saying, if he doesn't call, he's just not that into you?

Have we reduced the sale of our foals and broodmares to a simple contractual and monetary transaction? Are our circle of friends only including those who are customers, or potential customers, or are our friends those who are our friends, money aside?


----------It is not possible.
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Dieter
post Feb 9 2012, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (M.D. @ Feb 9 2012, 07:46 AM) *
(snipped) Before a very appointment has to be determined and settled upon, certain things need to be clarified in order to concentrate on viewing the actual horse ,with additional issues at hand to be addressed within such a planned a visit at the seller property.

Dear M.D., Great post . . . and I'd like to add that even before an appointment to see the horse is scheduled, a serious buyer should ask for and receive specific conformation photos meant to show the real horse as it is in the flesh. Particularly the following:

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

because without all of "that" being in place, then it does not matter what this looks like:

Attached Image

Surprisingly, most sellers do not have critical conformation evaluation types of photos or video and when one asks for it, it is not forthcoming. The same is true for owners of stallions who stand their studs to the public - good luck getting photos of legs, feet, candid conformation, front and rear quarters. They do, however, have plenty of photos of the head wink.gif If the mare owner isn't careful, they'll see a photo of a head, book a breeding and end up with legs like this:

Attached Image

by the time the horse is 12 years old.

Once we have the photos we request (as outlined above) in hand, THEN we schedule an appointment to actually go see the horse. If a seller or stallion owner is not willing to give the photos you've requested, just walk away until you find a seller or stallion owner that will. Your horse will thank you for it 20 years from now
wub.gif
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M.D.
post Feb 10 2012, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Feb 9 2012, 02:43 PM) *

Dear M.D., Great post . . . and I'd like to add that even before an appointment to see the horse is scheduled, a serious buyer should ask for and receive specific conformation photos meant to show the real horse as it is in the flesh. Particularly the following:

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

because without all of "that" being in place, then it does not matter what this looks like:

Attached Image

Surprisingly, most sellers do not have critical conformation evaluation types of photos or video and when one asks for it, it is not forthcoming. The same is true for owners of stallions who stand their studs to the public - good luck getting photos of legs, feet, candid conformation, front and rear quarters. They do, however, have plenty of photos of the head wink.gif If the mare owner isn't careful, they'll see a photo of a head, book a breeding and end up with legs like this:

Attached Image

by the time the horse is 12 years old.

Once we have the photos we request (as outlined above) in hand, THEN we schedule an appointment to actually go see the horse. If a seller or stallion owner is not willing to give the photos you've requested, just walk away until you find a seller or stallion owner that will. Your horse will thank you for it 20 years from now
wub.gif


Dear Mrs. Dieter:

you are right. BUYER BEWARE. Considerations before purchase: heste-nettet.dk " Considerations before purchase". I am quiet sure every part of Europe and America has guidelines for books of this standard procedure for potential buyers .And the Arabian breed is no exemption.
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Dieter
post Feb 16 2012, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (M.D. @ Feb 10 2012, 10:11 AM) *
Dear Mrs. Dieter:

you are right. BUYER BEWARE. Considerations before purchase: heste-nettet.dk " Considerations before purchase". I am quiet sure every part of Europe and America has guidelines for books of this standard procedure for potential buyers .And the Arabian breed is no exemption.
Yes, but how many buyers and mare owners read books these days before buying a horse or before breeding to a stallion they have never seen in the flesh?

What does "heste-nettet.dk" mean?

Liz
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HLM
post Feb 16 2012, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Feb 16 2012, 02:45 PM) *
Yes, but how many buyers and mare owners read books these days before buying a horse or before breeding to a stallion they have never seen in the flesh?

What does "heste-nettet.dk" mean?

Liz



Liz dont you feel that going to a reputable breeder, a person who talks straight forward, hides nothing and lets the buyer make a decision? I have on some occasions sent buyers to other breeders/owners of repute to have a comparrison and coming to the right decision.

I always recommend to go see the horses in the flesh, because photos sometimes do more harm than good.

Take care
hansi

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Dieter
post Feb 16 2012, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (HLM @ Feb 16 2012, 10:48 AM) *
Liz dont you feel that going to a reputable breeder, a person who talks straight forward, hides nothing and lets the buyer make a decision? I have on some occasions sent buyers to other breeders/owners of repute to have a comparrison and coming to the right decision.

I always recommend to go see the horses in the flesh, because photos sometimes do more harm than good.

Take care
hansi

Yes Hansi I do feel it best for buyers and mare owner to go to a reputable breeder who talks straight forward, hides nothing and lets the buyer make a decision, but here is the problem. If people can be so easily confused between fact and opnion as you have seen first hand in the *Exochorda thread, how are they to determine which reputable breeder is truly a reputable breeder? Also, what makes my heart sing, often does not equate to what will make someone else's heart sing. I get hung up on straight legs, good feet, short canons, deep girths, good angles in front rear and from side to side, overall balance and quality, a good disposition and a kind eye and not so much on how level or flat a topline is, how long the neck is, how exotic a head is or whether that horse is Sheykh Obeyd, Blue List, AK or what have you. So, though I have thrown caution to the wind before using the judgement of others in place of my own on a given horse, and have done so again, I am much more at ease if I see the horse in the flesh before I decide upon it's intended purpose (whether for breeding or purchase).

Do you feel the type of photos I posted above are good to make a preliminary decision whether one would bother to look into that horse further?.


Best wishes,

Liz
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