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> Q. Is Exochorda Pure Arabian Mare?
AL DHAFRA
post May 9 2009, 06:54 PM
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dear members i was wondering if some can help me finding answer to my Q?

is EXOCHORDA (1924) by AIGLON out of LEILA arabian mare ? if yes is she an SE mare?


all the best

Al Dhafra Stud
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carolmaginn
post May 10 2009, 04:12 AM
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Sure Ken,

I agree with you - no one ever put the actual horse's down, yet the horses's reputations have been tarnished due to people making claims that horse's are not SE even it that actual individual horse was top quality. If you are an SE breeder and someone makes a claim that a horse is not SE that ruins the horse's reputation because some potential buyers will be afraid to have any horses with "questionable lines" in the pedigree. In my opinion, when a top horse is overlooked simply because someone heard from some well known breeder that a horse is not pure. I just find that case to be really unfortunate.

I have had people in some countries who tell me that they do not want any horses with certain horses in the pedigree. They give me a long list of unacceptable lines and horses. When I have asked why they do not like these lines they say it is because "many people over here don't want these lines". They don't know or care why others don't want those lines, the fact is that since there is such prejudice in their community, they don't want to have to deal with limiting their market for future foals.

I don't understand why it is that those who claimed that those lines were not SE were never required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt - their words and claims were enough for others to just follow. And yet the burden of actual real proof was instead placed on those who had to defend these lines to the people who made these claims. In our legal system - the burden of proof is always placed on the prosecutor not on the defense - so why in this case do we not require proof beyond reasonable doubt from those who claim the horses to be impure? In fact I had jury duty last month and the defense never even testified because it was not the defense's job to defend, the burden of proof lies with the accuser (or in this case our District Attorney who was prosecuting that case).

Also I have always wondered - with all the SE horses that have been bred from the beginning of time - what are the odds that a non SE horse never got into the gene pool? I mean I have the greatest respect for the Bedouins, but as they are only human, how do we know that one night a stallion from some non pure herd might have made his way over to some poor Bedoun's mare band? We never question if this might have happened, so why is it that only particular lines are questioned so vigorously? Why do we not ask for proof for every line that is not well documented? This has happened to many people I have heard of - the stallion gets out and breeds a mare accidently.

I agree with you that many of the best horses do have this line - many of my favorites....

So as for what is the truth in regard to Exochorda, I do not feel that those who question the pedigree's purity have produced enough proof to prove impurity beyond a reasonable doubt and therefore she should be considered pure. And I feel that those who have been forced to defend the pedigree have done more to prove purity then those who cast the questions.

One more thing I often think about - I believe it was Joe Ferriss who proved the purity of the Minstril - is that right? I can't recall all the details - maybe I need to go read about that too, but I seem to remember him somehow proving that *Bahila was indeed pure (Minstril's dam). Despite this proof - how many serious breeders who believed this line to be impure for many years changed their minds just because one day Joe found some very good evidence and in fact proved this? My guess is that not many really changed their minds. So this is why I say that even if the proof was staring at those who question these lines right in the face - they couldn't erase their feelings towards these lines after so many years of prejudice. A reputation is easy to destroy and even if exhonorated with actual hard proof it is not easy to repair.

Do you remember the guy who was running for office in California who they accused of murdering Chaundra Levy - one of his interns? His career was destroyed, his wife left him I think, even despite that years later they eventually found the real killer and he was proclaimed innocent.

Many people called Galileo insane for saying that the earth revolved around the sun. Now we can both look back and see how ignorant they really were. Unfortunately, there will always be bigots, who out of fear hurt people who try things that are different from what they would do. But it is those who open their minds, who have the courage to be different, who actually make a difference in society and in breeding programs...

I appreciate all that you have said Ken - totally. In reality, what I have posted is just me sharing my thoughts on this topic for once, as I do not think I ever posted about this before - even on that old Exochorda thread from last year, even though one of my best friends was vigorously defending Exochorda... I was busy and I wish I had said this sooner.

Many thanks for your respectful dialog. I do appreciate this discussion with you and others.

Carol

QUOTE (1rider @ May 9 2009, 10:07 PM)
Yes Carol people shouldnt fallow blindly! and there was no new  document found.. the documents are all the ones that have been around since the beginning of all this...  some dates but still nothing saying she was born here on this date bred by this person..... there was dates that helped narrow some things down.. maybe you should go back and read it..... And i just want the truth also. That s why i questions everything also.. and never have i heard anyone put the horses down themselves or say they are not pure bred Arabians..Just the SE label is the question...many of my best horses have this line.....Ken
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Posts in this topic
- AL DHAFRA   Q. Is Exochorda Pure Arabian Mare?   May 9 2009, 06:54 PM
- - Razgold   Yes to both questions. She is in my mare's ped...   May 9 2009, 07:04 PM
- - Liz Salmon   Definitely Yes to both questions !! A grea...   May 9 2009, 07:54 PM
- - 1rider   There still is no proof on rthe SE just marginal ...   May 10 2009, 01:25 AM
- - carolmaginn   In my opinion, there was clear proof provided for ...   May 10 2009, 02:22 AM
- - 1rider   Yes Carol people shouldnt fallow blindly! and ...   May 10 2009, 03:07 AM
- - Tous crins   QUOTE (carolmaginn @ May 9 2009, 08:12 PM)Sur...   May 10 2009, 04:38 AM
- - 1rider   Just a reminder there is no question of purity.......   May 10 2009, 04:52 AM
- - carolmaginn   Hi Ken, Okay - I hear what you are saying.... I a...   May 10 2009, 07:39 AM
- - Liz Salmon   What a great epistle Carol !!!! Yo...   May 10 2009, 12:02 PM
- - Lil Buddha   *sigh* my head hurts and my hair is on fire...ano...   May 10 2009, 01:13 PM
- - KGH   Somebody get this man some water! Exochorda i...   May 10 2009, 01:37 PM
- - Liz Salmon   With that said from KGH, doesn't everyone thin...   May 10 2009, 01:46 PM
- - Al Sahra Arabians   Thank you Carol, Liz and everyone else for this di...   May 10 2009, 01:57 PM
- - MHuprich   The term "Straight Egyptian" is one that...   May 10 2009, 02:11 PM
- - sarri   QUOTE (carolmaginn @ May 10 2009, 08:39 AM)Hi...   May 10 2009, 02:14 PM
- - carolmaginn   Liz, That is great, but I still think that long t...   May 10 2009, 02:36 PM
- - carolmaginn   Hi Sarry, I do not think that it says on the AHA ...   May 10 2009, 02:53 PM
- - sarri   QUOTE (carolmaginn @ May 10 2009, 03:53 PM)Hi...   May 10 2009, 03:24 PM
- - carolmaginn   Liz, I don't think its time for closure yet -...   May 10 2009, 03:33 PM
- - carolmaginn   Not if I used a breeding facility not at my farm.....   May 10 2009, 03:35 PM
- - sarri   QUOTE (carolmaginn @ May 10 2009, 04:35 PM)No...   May 10 2009, 03:42 PM
- - sarri   QUOTE (carolmaginn @ May 10 2009, 04:33 PM)Li...   May 10 2009, 03:44 PM
- - Liz Salmon   Yes, Carol, David Frost was a household name in th...   May 10 2009, 03:45 PM
- - carolmaginn   Liz, I am not an expert in any way, however it is...   May 10 2009, 05:27 PM
- - carolmaginn   Well let me put it this way.... I wouldn't giv...   May 10 2009, 05:52 PM
- - sarri   QUOTE (carolmaginn @ May 10 2009, 06:52 PM)We...   May 10 2009, 06:06 PM
- - KGH   Sarri, There was a time when breeders would often ...   May 10 2009, 06:13 PM
- - carolmaginn   Sarri, I should have known you were just kidding,...   May 10 2009, 06:16 PM
- - carolmaginn   Well this is true... Kelly I think you may have lo...   May 10 2009, 06:27 PM
- - KGH   Carol Many stallion owners are turning away from p...   May 10 2009, 06:49 PM
- - sarri   QUOTE (KGH @ May 10 2009, 07:13 PM)Sarri, The...   May 10 2009, 06:55 PM
- - carolmaginn   Well I think swapping is a great plan... and a goo...   May 10 2009, 07:31 PM
- - carolmaginn   Hey I currently maintain the Sheyk Obeyd website. ...   May 10 2009, 07:34 PM
- - Solita   I love your way of thinking Carol QUOTE (carol...   May 10 2009, 09:17 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   Dear Carol and All, I swore never to get into an I...   May 11 2009, 01:20 AM
|- - Dieter   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ May 10 2009, 09:20...   Mar 19 2012, 11:55 AM
|- - diane   QUOTE (Dieter @ Mar 19 2012, 09:55 PM) QU...   Mar 19 2012, 12:24 PM
||- - Dieter   QUOTE (diane @ Mar 19 2012, 08:24 AM) In ...   Mar 19 2012, 12:32 PM
||- - diane   QUOTE (Dieter @ Mar 19 2012, 10:32 PM) We...   Mar 19 2012, 12:40 PM
||- - Dieter   QUOTE (diane @ Mar 19 2012, 08:40 AM) Que...   Mar 19 2012, 12:59 PM
|- - Caryn Rogosky   QUOTE (Dieter @ Mar 19 2012, 12:55 PM) In...   Mar 19 2012, 12:47 PM
|- - Dieter   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Mar 19 2012, 08:47...   Mar 19 2012, 12:54 PM
||- - Caryn Rogosky   QUOTE (Dieter @ Mar 19 2012, 01:54 PM) LO...   Mar 19 2012, 01:01 PM
||- - Dieter   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Mar 19 2012, 09:01...   Mar 19 2012, 01:16 PM
||- - Caryn Rogosky   QUOTE (Dieter @ Mar 19 2012, 02:16 PM) Re...   Mar 19 2012, 02:22 PM
||- - Dieter   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Mar 19 2012, 10:22...   Mar 19 2012, 02:28 PM
||- - HLM   QUOTE (Dieter @ Mar 19 2012, 04:28 PM) LO...   Mar 19 2012, 07:48 PM
|- - Dieter   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Mar 19 2012, 08:47...   Mar 19 2012, 01:48 PM
|- - Caryn Rogosky   QUOTE (Dieter @ Mar 19 2012, 02:48 PM) An...   Mar 19 2012, 02:12 PM
|- - Dieter   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Mar 19 2012, 10:12...   Mar 19 2012, 02:16 PM
|- - HLM   QUOTE (Dieter @ Mar 19 2012, 04:16 PM) Se...   Mar 19 2012, 07:44 PM
|- - Caryn Rogosky   QUOTE (HLM @ Mar 19 2012, 09:44 PM) Liz ...   Mar 19 2012, 08:00 PM
|- - 2mntn   QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Mar 19 2012, 02:00...   Mar 19 2012, 08:09 PM
|- - HLM   QUOTE (2mntn @ Mar 19 2012, 09:09 PM) LOL...   Mar 19 2012, 08:48 PM
|- - Caryn Rogosky   QUOTE (HLM @ Mar 19 2012, 09:48 PM) O my ...   Mar 19 2012, 09:03 PM
- - 1rider   7. It is true that there have been very damaging r...   May 11 2009, 04:23 AM
- - carolmaginn   Ken, It really doesn't matter that no one has...   May 11 2009, 04:52 AM
- - Caryn Rogosky   I agree, it should just be about questions and res...   May 11 2009, 03:08 PM
- - MHuprich   Liz, are you saying the EAO only used horses that ...   Mar 19 2012, 12:44 PM
|- - Dieter   QUOTE (MHuprich @ Mar 19 2012, 08:44 AM) ...   Mar 19 2012, 01:10 PM
- - Kimberli   I could make a list of thousands of Registered Ara...   Mar 19 2012, 02:43 PM
|- - Dieter   QUOTE (Kimberli @ Mar 19 2012, 10:43 AM) ...   Mar 19 2012, 03:17 PM
- - Kimberli   Liz, you are absolutely correct! Therefore, ...   Mar 19 2012, 03:32 PM
|- - Dieter   QUOTE (Kimberli @ Mar 19 2012, 11:32 AM) ...   Mar 19 2012, 03:40 PM
- - Nadj al Nur   QUOTE (Kimberli @ Mar 19 2012, 08:32 AM) ...   Mar 19 2012, 03:49 PM
- - Kimberli   The question that started this thread some 3 years...   Mar 19 2012, 03:50 PM
|- - HLM   QUOTE (Kimberli @ Mar 19 2012, 05:50 PM) ...   Mar 19 2012, 07:51 PM
|- - diane   QUOTE (HLM @ Mar 20 2012, 05:51 AM) Dear ...   Mar 19 2012, 10:39 PM
- - Nadj al Nur   QUOTE (2mntn @ Mar 19 2012, 01:09 PM) LOL...   Mar 19 2012, 08:12 PM
|- - Caryn Rogosky   QUOTE (Nadj al Nur @ Mar 19 2012, 09:12 P...   Mar 19 2012, 08:46 PM
- - Caryn Rogosky   BTW, it was Liz Dieter who was under the impressio...   Mar 19 2012, 09:05 PM
- - karin   This discussion is many times repeated. Please clo...   Mar 19 2012, 11:22 PM
- - karin   Topic closed and I hope that people let it rest no...   Mar 19 2012, 11:39 PM


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