I don't think its time for closure yet - lets let it run until everyone stops posting anymore. I have truly enjoyed this discussion and thank Ken sincerely for going back and forth with me a little. If everyone thinks the same thing then someone is not thinking. I think that there will always be new people who will ask these honest questions, and they deserve to hear the different perspectives from different people such as myself who has never posted about this before until last night.
And I also really appreciate Ken allowing me to debate with him. He is clearly open minded as he owns these lines and we are both seeing the same thing - the truth and more answers to help reveal the more facts. I don't own any Exochorda lines but I honestly just like the discovery that can be revealed through a good debate or discussion amongst breeders and other experts like Ken, me, Kelly, Melissa, you and the rest of the people who have insights to contribute.
This kind of questioning and exploration is to me much like doing interviews for a book or an interview. I saw a movie the other night about a Britsh media person who interviewed Richard Nixon after he resigned under the disgrace of the Watergate scandal. Though many people had gone over the Watergate story many times and it had totally been hashed out - this British media guy was able to uncover a new fact that was overlooked and that one or actually two facts made all the difference between Richard Nixon admitting his mistake or just justifying his actions.... How ironic that in all of America no one seemed to pay much attention to this little detail, but an outsider from England who came at it from a different perspective was able to uncover something that made all the difference. Liz - I was a little kid at the time and so I missed that interview back then, but being as you are British, I'll bet you know who that media guy is that I am referring to who uncovered the new important facts through new research at the archives in some library in Washington, DC. He was kind of a famous talk show host like Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walters, but people didn't take him to be a serious reporter really I don't think.
If no one asks these hard questions from new perspectives, and no one has the courage to speak about it or debate it, or try to really get to the bottom of the issue from all perspectives then we are all just acting like mushrooms - in the dark and covered in cow patties. Not a pretty sight at all.
Really - call me a wierdo, but I think this is fun trying to figure out this Exochorda puzzle - like solving a case, like the game of "Clue". I'm not in any way attached to the issue so that is why I'm really not emotionally involved - it doesn't matter to me either way, but it is interesting. It does however matter to the breed overall since so many horses could be excluded from our gene pool if we do not solve the puzzle.
I think the most important thing is that we ask the hard questions, do not put all long term breeders on pedistals for like parents they are only human. And although I do feel long term breeders who have been dedicated to the breed deserve our honor and respect - true dedication to the breed means being dedicated to the truth. This should apply not just to pedigree authenticity in my opinion but also to breeding results. If we really love the breed deeply - we should be brutally honest with ourselves about all the good and bad breeding results. Its not easy to do sometimes (not for me either), but to make progress overall I think we need to share all of our breeding discoveries and results to help others gain the knowledge to breed even better horses.
Fake photos of horses, plastic surgery, and all the the stupid things people do to hide the truth doesn't advance our cause as breeders.
Let me also tell you about a policy that I really love... I love that in some countries in the Middle East, breeding is not about the money. They do not charge for stud fees. The reason is that they consider it wrong to charge for the breeding of that animals, and the result is that people are able to breed to the best horses possible. I really feel that this is a group of people who are truly dedicated to the future of the breed. Yes they may charge for the horses they produce, but not for the stud fees.
How sad it is here in our culture that if you do not charge a stud fee or you have a very low stud fee that people perceive the stallion must not be of value.... Quality of a stallion in my opinion should not be about the price of a stud fee, it should be about the foals produced and what that are and what they can do. And in fact I know of many stallion who do not look impressive themselves have little or NO marketing, don't even have decent photos, but are GREAT producers. I can think of horses like that all day long such as The Source CC. When is the last time that someone was smart enough to breed to that horse? Or how about Vanylla Ice? Or how about Roger Bell's Baarez son? Or Caledonia's Halim Shah son?
There are amazing horses out there. I wish that someone could go out there and write a book about all the hidden gems who could totally advance the breed if only people were smart enough to use them or even were aware of them. Maybe I should write a book of research - wouldn't that be fun? I would ask experts to help me like Arlene Magid and Judy Guess, and maybe Steve Diamond.
Boy oh boy - got off on a tangent again - sorry about the new epistle ... got to go out and work my stallions now - trying to put weight and condition on them so they can compete with some of the stallions in the show ring :-)
Thanks all for allowing me to blabber on again....
QUOTE (Liz Salmon @ May 10 2009, 08:46 AM)
With that said from KGH, doesn't everyone think this has been hashed out to death—time for closure ?