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> Mashhour, (Shahloul x Bint Rustem)
2mntn
post Jan 30 2012, 02:37 AM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Jan 29 2012, 07:08 PM) *
El Mareekh's mother, Rawayeh, was the result of breeding a paternal Shahloul granddaughter, Rhama, to a maternal Shahloul grandson, Alaa El Din. And, Rawayeh's father, Alaa El Din, and her mother, Rahma, were both from maternal grandchildren of Bint Rissala from the Rodania family. While Alaa El Din was by the Mansour son Nazeer, Rhama's mother Yashmak, was by the Mansour son Sheikh El Arab.

El Mareekh's father, Aseel, who's dam, Inas, was out of Ghazala, a paternal Shahloul granddaughter and a maternal Mansour granddaughter. Inas' sire, *Morafic was out of a maternal Shahloul granddaughter, Mabrouka, and sired by a Mansour son, Nazeer. Aseel's sire, Sameh was the son of El Moez was the result of breeding a Rabdan grandson, Ibn Fayda (via Ibn Rabdan), to a Rabdan granddaughter, Bint Zareefa. Ibn Rabdan's dam, Bint Gamila, was the result of breeding an El Sennari son to an El Sennari daughter.

In other words, El Mareekh's mother Rawayeh and his father's mother, Inas, were both paternal granddaughters of Nazeer and maternal granddaughters of Mashhour. They are very closely related. I have surmised, likely as have many others before me, that the strength of El Mareekh's pedigree comes through his dam and the dam of his sire. This method of breeding and balancing the blood of sire lines and mare lines is difficult to achieve. The EAO clearly are the fathers of the Egyptian Arabian horse ensuring it's quality for many generations to come.

[attachment=121579:EL_MAREEKH_9.jpg]
El Mareekh


Yes, the RAS/EAO made some excellent choices...but then they had some really good stuff to work with. smile.gif

Back to Mashhour and company, it would seem that Shahloul, his son Mashhour, and his son Seef were three outcrosses in a row...in terms of the families the breeders were working with at the time.
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Dieter
post Jan 30 2012, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE (2mntn @ Jan 29 2012, 09:37 PM) *
Yes, the RAS/EAO made some excellent choices...but then they had some really good stuff to work with. smile.gif

Back to Mashhour and company, it would seem that Shahloul, his son Mashhour, and his son Seef were three outcrosses in a row...in terms of the families the breeders were working with at the time.

Not sure I understand what you mean by outcross in these instances. Could you be more specific?
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2mntn
post Jan 30 2012, 03:53 AM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Jan 29 2012, 07:44 PM) *
Not sure I understand what you mean by outcross in these instances. Could you be more specific?


Well, mostly in terms of what they were bred to. When Shahloul was bred to Bint Rustem, his Gamil El Kebir sire line outcrossed her Zobeyni sire line. Shahloul's dam, Bint Radia (Saqlawi, but with some heavy-duty Kulhaylan inside) was an outcross to Bint Rustem's dam, Bint Hadba El Saghira. This result was Mashhour. The same could be said for Bint Rustem's other foals by Ibn Rabdan (Shahoul's sire) - namely Hind and Salwa. To my eye, Mashhour is more representative of his Kuhaylan components, although he is Hadban Enzahi.

When Mashhour was bred to Elwya, for Seef, the outcross is obvious with her El Deree sire line and Bint Al Bahrain tail-female.

Going one further, *Ibn Safinaz, by Seef, was an outcross on the sire line, introducing Nazeer through Safinaz, but also intensified Shahloul through Kateefa and El Sareei - also Hamdan, Shahloul's full brother was introduced, so another line to Bint Radia. Again, to my eye, *Ibn Safinaz is not only representative of his tail - Kuhaylan Kurush, but also his other Kuhaylan components.

One step further, Imperial Saturn, is another outcross of *Ibn Safinaz to Imperial Mistilll, and Nazeer is even more intensified, and although Imperial Saturn is Dahman Shahwan, to my eye he is showing his Kuhaylan components.

Maybe this is more than you wanted me to say... laugh.gif
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diane
post Jan 30 2012, 11:55 AM
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QUOTE (2mntn @ Jan 30 2012, 01:53 PM) *
Well, mostly in terms of what they were bred to. When Shahloul was bred to Bint Rustem, his Gamil El Kebir sire line outcrossed her Zobeyni sire line. Shahloul's dam, Bint Radia (Saqlawi, but with some heavy-duty Kulhaylan inside) was an outcross to Bint Rustem's dam, Bint Hadba El Saghira. This result was Mashhour. The same could be said for Bint Rustem's other foals by Ibn Rabdan (Shahoul's sire) - namely Hind and Salwa. To my eye, Mashhour is more representative of his Kuhaylan components, although he is Hadban Enzahi.

When Mashhour was bred to Elwya, for Seef, the outcross is obvious with her El Deree sire line and Bint Al Bahrain tail-female.

Going one further, *Ibn Safinaz, by Seef, was an outcross on the sire line, introducing Nazeer through Safinaz, but also intensified Shahloul through Kateefa and El Sareei - also Hamdan, Shahloul's full brother was introduced, so another line to Bint Radia. Again, to my eye, *Ibn Safinaz is not only representative of his tail - Kuhaylan Kurush, but also his other Kuhaylan components.

One step further, Imperial Saturn, is another outcross of *Ibn Safinaz to Imperial Mistilll, and Nazeer is even more intensified, and although Imperial Saturn is Dahman Shahwan, to my eye he is showing his Kuhaylan components.

Maybe this is more than you wanted me to say... laugh.gif

biggrin.gif '"By George, he's got it - By George, he's got it, Now once again" I think Ray's got it! You bin readin' Mr Paraskevas' volumes, Ray!

A great volume, Liz... worthy of a read!

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hemo
post Jan 30 2012, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Jan 27 2012, 01:25 PM) *
Greetings,

I am interested in learning more about Mashhour and am hoping someone reading this will have full body photos of him. There is a full body photo of him at http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mashhour as a gangly 2 year old, but am interested in seeing one of him as a mature stallion.

Thank you in advance! smile.gif



Hi Liz,
I agree with you that it's diffecult to find aphot of Mashhour!
Mashhour was Bred by Royal Agricultural Society, Egypt.

SOURCES:

Judith Forbis, The Classic Arabian Horse, Liveright, New York, 1976, pp. 218-9.
Laszlo Monostory, “General Szandtner and the El Zahraa Stud Farm in Egypt,” Arabian Horse World, June 1980, pp. 107-10.

Colin Pearson with Kees Mol, The Arabian Horse Families of Egypt, Alexander Heriot & Co., England, 1988.

*Carl Raswan, The Raswan Index, vol. IV, Mexico, 1961; pp. 563-34 and section between plates 117 and 1320.

Erika Schiele, The Arab Horse in Europe, American edition 1973, pp. 207-8.

Mashhour was used at the beginning and again at the end of General von Pettko-Szandtner’s tenure in Egypt for a total of just over ten foals.
The “Next Generation” Broodmares(mares born in 1950 or later with E.A.O. foals born by 1960 and listed in The Arabian Horse Families of Egypt) Dahma IIElwyaFathiaSaklawia IIFarashaFayza II*GhazalahhMabroukaRahmaHemmatSamiaTahiaAblaAhlam IIFatinKamarMamloukaBint KateefaMounaNazeeraSouhairRaficaShahrzadaZahia II1950 gr1950 gr1950 gr1950 ch1951 gr1951 ch1951 gr1951 ch1951 b1952 gr1952 gr1952 gr1953 gr1953 ch1953 gr1953 gr1953 ch1954 ch1954 ch1954 gr1954 br1955 gr1955 gr1956 brNazeer x FutnaSid Abouhom x ZareefaSid Abouhom x ShamsMashhour x ZamzamSid Abouhom x YosreiaSid Abouhom x NefisaMashhour x Bint FaridaSid Abouhom x Moniet el NefousMashhour x YashmakSid Abouhom x MaysounaNazeer x MalakaGassir x KawsarNazeer x HelwaSid Abouhom x Bint ZareefaNazeer x NefisaNazeer x KomeiraNazeer x MalakaSid Abouhom x KateefaSid Abouhom x Moniet el NefousNazeer x MalakaSid Abouhom x SalwaNazeer x Om el SaadNazeer x YosreiaEl Sareer x Zaafarana
Approximately 24 different Inshass broodmares produced foals in 1959 and 1960. They included Hafiza, Ghorra, Shahbaa, and Rooda.

The Inshass herd had many lines in common with the E.A.O. stock of von Pettko-Szandtner’s time, but it also included lines distinct from it — most notably some gift mares from the House of Sa’ud. By 1960 the Inshass mares had arrived at El-Zahraa and the two groups have since then been bred as more or less one herd.

It is not clear to this writer to what extent von Pettko-Szandtner would have integrated the Inshass lines with the E.A.O.’s existing herd had he remained in Egypt, but clearly an intermingling was already underway when he left. The Austro-Hungarian military horse breeding tradition of which he was a part made repeated and regular use of outcross bloodlines. Early to mid-20th century pedigrees of both purebred and Shagya Arabians from the Hungarian state studs show a minimum of inbreeding and regular use of outcross animals.
General von Pettko-Szandtner’s purebred Arabian breeding at Babolna was mostly scattered or destroyed during World War II. It lives on mainly as trace elements in some Polish pedigrees. It seems ironic that this great Hungarian horseman should have had his largest influence on world Arabian breeding through what amounted almost to a retirement venture for him — and in a land many miles and across a sea from his native Hungary.

Here is some more information about him (Pyramid Arabian Stud):

In 1949, General von Pettko-Szandtner was hired by the Egyptian government to manage the breeding operations at the Royal Agricultural Society. He went through the broodmares from the RAS. herd and chose 42 mares that he felt were the quality needed to preserve the horses Egypt that the RAS had become famous for producing. All Egyptian horses today, with the exception of those horse exported before 1949, will to some extent descend from these 42 mares The General is also responsible for returning the infamous Nazeer from obscurity. The second stallion the General retained was Mashhour, 1941 brown (Shahloul x Bint Rustem, by Rustem) was used at the beginning and again at the end of General von Pettko-Szandtner's tenure in Egypt for a total of just over ten foals.
It is interesting to note that of the 42 mares 11 of them were Hadba Enzahi in strain. It is quite obvious that the mares of the Hadba Enzahi strain were of extraordinary quality as 25 percent is an incredible number for him to choose, nine of these mares were Sheykh Obeyd.
Part two of this legacy begins with the second daughter of Bint Hadba El Saghira, Bint Rustem by Rustem foaled in 1922. She was bay and of extreme beauty showing tremendous scope and refinement. She had a very long neck, an excEllent shoulder, great withers and very good legs. Her head was dry with large expressive eyes. Her quality would be passed to her foals and would be seen far in the future in her descendants.

Bint Rustem was bay and of extreme beauty showing tremendous scope and refinement. She had a very long neck, an excellent shoulder, great withers and very good legs. Her head was dry with large expressive eyes. Many of her foals were Sheykh Obeyd, Rassim 1928 Chestnut Stallion by Kazmeen, Hind 1929 Bay mare by Ibn Rabdan, and ten years later, the mare Salwa in 1939 also by Ibn Rabdan. Mawal 1931 Bay Stallion by Mabrouk Blunt, Ibn Bint Rustem 1933 Grey Stallion by Mansour, Kahila 1929 Bay Mare by Ibn Rabdan. Bint Rustem also produced a stallion by Nabras,* El Akhrani 1937 Black Stallion, imported to the US by Queen Nazli of Egypt in 1950. However, he did not produce any Sheykh Obeyed foals. In 1941 Mashhour was born, a Bay Stallion by Shahloul.

Rassim, Mawal and Ibn Bint Rustem did not sire any foals. El Akhrani sired four foals none where Sheykh Obeyd. Kahila was the dam of six foal three Sheykh Obeyd, however none were bred. There is nothing today from descending from Kahila.

Today we have descendants from Hind, Salwa and Mashhour
Mashhour was a beautiful mahogany bay stallion. A beauty with considerable scope and substance. Sire of many fantastic foals such as *Ghazallahh. There are no Sheykh Obeyd Hadban Enzahi horses to Mashhour. His only Sheykh Obeyd daughter failed to produce after she was imported to the USA.


Best rgs

Mohamid El Zoubie
www.agarabianhorse.com
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2mntn
post Jan 30 2012, 03:59 PM
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Mashhour may not have any SO descendants, but there are plenty of real good ASIL descendants.

The SO label doesn't carry much weight, in my opinion, as it contradicts itself with El Deree, who came to the RAS during Dr Branch's administration and all of his offspring who bred onward were born from 1931 through 1936. In any case, the designation has a few individuals remaining to represent the group as a genetic pool.

Back to the Mashhour sire line, here is *Ibn Seef, who was a spectacular Kuhaylan Rodan in name and type...with the added refinement of the unmistakable *Morafic.


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M.D.
post Jan 30 2012, 04:34 PM
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QUOTE (2mntn @ Jan 30 2012, 04:59 PM) *
Mashhour may not have any SO descendants, but there are plenty of real good ASIL descendants.

The SO label doesn't carry much weight, in my opinion, as it contradicts itself with El Deree, who came to the RAS during Dr Branch's administration and all of his offspring who bred onward were born from 1931 through 1936. In any case, the designation has a few individuals remaining to represent the group as a genetic pool.

Back to the Mashhour sire line, here is *Ibn Seef, who was a spectacular Kuhaylan Rodan in name and type...with the added refinement of the unmistakable *Morafic.


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Hi there: Could someone be so kind to tell where to order such show halters and bridles in different colors for Arabian horse of today ? I'd appreciate it very much. They used to be sold with either silver, red,yellow, green, or blue striping. Thanks.
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HLM
post Jan 30 2012, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE (hemo @ Jan 30 2012, 04:22 PM) *
Hi Liz,
I agree with you that it's diffecult to find aphot of Mashhour!
Mashhour was Bred by Royal Agricultural Society, Egypt.

SOURCES:

Judith Forbis, The Classic Arabian Horse, Liveright, New York, 1976, pp. 218-9.
Laszlo Monostory, “General Szandtner and the El Zahraa Stud Farm in Egypt,” Arabian Horse World, June 1980, pp. 107-10.

Colin Pearson with Kees Mol, The Arabian Horse Families of Egypt, Alexander Heriot & Co., England, 1988.

*Carl Raswan, The Raswan Index, vol. IV, Mexico, 1961; pp. 563-34 and section between plates 117 and 1320.

Erika Schiele, The Arab Horse in Europe, American edition 1973, pp. 207-8.

Mashhour was used at the beginning and again at the end of General von Pettko-Szandtner’s tenure in Egypt for a total of just over ten foals.
The “Next Generation” Broodmares(mares born in 1950 or later with E.A.O. foals born by 1960 and listed in The Arabian Horse Families of Egypt) Dahma IIElwyaFathiaSaklawia IIFarashaFayza II*GhazalahhMabroukaRahmaHemmatSamiaTahiaAblaAhlam IIFatinKamarMamloukaBint KateefaMounaNazeeraSouhairRaficaShahrzadaZahia II1950 gr1950 gr1950 gr1950 ch1951 gr1951 ch1951 gr1951 ch1951 b1952 gr1952 gr1952 gr1953 gr1953 ch1953 gr1953 gr1953 ch1954 ch1954 ch1954 gr1954 br1955 gr1955 gr1956 brNazeer x FutnaSid Abouhom x ZareefaSid Abouhom x ShamsMashhour x ZamzamSid Abouhom x YosreiaSid Abouhom x NefisaMashhour x Bint FaridaSid Abouhom x Moniet el NefousMashhour x YashmakSid Abouhom x MaysounaNazeer x MalakaGassir x KawsarNazeer x HelwaSid Abouhom x Bint ZareefaNazeer x NefisaNazeer x KomeiraNazeer x MalakaSid Abouhom x KateefaSid Abouhom x Moniet el NefousNazeer x MalakaSid Abouhom x SalwaNazeer x Om el SaadNazeer x YosreiaEl Sareer x Zaafarana
Approximately 24 different Inshass broodmares produced foals in 1959 and 1960. They included Hafiza, Ghorra, Shahbaa, and Rooda.

The Inshass herd had many lines in common with the E.A.O. stock of von Pettko-Szandtner’s time, but it also included lines distinct from it — most notably some gift mares from the House of Sa’ud. By 1960 the Inshass mares had arrived at El-Zahraa and the two groups have since then been bred as more or less one herd.

It is not clear to this writer to what extent von Pettko-Szandtner would have integrated the Inshass lines with the E.A.O.’s existing herd had he remained in Egypt, but clearly an intermingling was already underway when he left. The Austro-Hungarian military horse breeding tradition of which he was a part made repeated and regular use of outcross bloodlines. Early to mid-20th century pedigrees of both purebred and Shagya Arabians from the Hungarian state studs show a minimum of inbreeding and regular use of outcross animals.
General von Pettko-Szandtner’s purebred Arabian breeding at Babolna was mostly scattered or destroyed during World War II. It lives on mainly as trace elements in some Polish pedigrees. It seems ironic that this great Hungarian horseman should have had his largest influence on world Arabian breeding through what amounted almost to a retirement venture for him — and in a land many miles and across a sea from his native Hungary.

Here is some more information about him (Pyramid Arabian Stud):

In 1949, General von Pettko-Szandtner was hired by the Egyptian government to manage the breeding operations at the Royal Agricultural Society. He went through the broodmares from the RAS. herd and chose 42 mares that he felt were the quality needed to preserve the horses Egypt that the RAS had become famous for producing. All Egyptian horses today, with the exception of those horse exported before 1949, will to some extent descend from these 42 mares The General is also responsible for returning the infamous Nazeer from obscurity. The second stallion the General retained was Mashhour, 1941 brown (Shahloul x Bint Rustem, by Rustem) was used at the beginning and again at the end of General von Pettko-Szandtner's tenure in Egypt for a total of just over ten foals.
It is interesting to note that of the 42 mares 11 of them were Hadba Enzahi in strain. It is quite obvious that the mares of the Hadba Enzahi strain were of extraordinary quality as 25 percent is an incredible number for him to choose, nine of these mares were Sheykh Obeyd.
Part two of this legacy begins with the second daughter of Bint Hadba El Saghira, Bint Rustem by Rustem foaled in 1922. She was bay and of extreme beauty showing tremendous scope and refinement. She had a very long neck, an excEllent shoulder, great withers and very good legs. Her head was dry with large expressive eyes. Her quality would be passed to her foals and would be seen far in the future in her descendants.

Bint Rustem was bay and of extreme beauty showing tremendous scope and refinement. She had a very long neck, an excellent shoulder, great withers and very good legs. Her head was dry with large expressive eyes. Many of her foals were Sheykh Obeyd, Rassim 1928 Chestnut Stallion by Kazmeen, Hind 1929 Bay mare by Ibn Rabdan, and ten years later, the mare Salwa in 1939 also by Ibn Rabdan. Mawal 1931 Bay Stallion by Mabrouk Blunt, Ibn Bint Rustem 1933 Grey Stallion by Mansour, Kahila 1929 Bay Mare by Ibn Rabdan. Bint Rustem also produced a stallion by Nabras,* El Akhrani 1937 Black Stallion, imported to the US by Queen Nazli of Egypt in 1950. However, he did not produce any Sheykh Obeyed foals. In 1941 Mashhour was born, a Bay Stallion by Shahloul.

Rassim, Mawal and Ibn Bint Rustem did not sire any foals. El Akhrani sired four foals none where Sheykh Obeyd. Kahila was the dam of six foal three Sheykh Obeyd, however none were bred. There is nothing today from descending from Kahila.

Today we have descendants from Hind, Salwa and Mashhour
Mashhour was a beautiful mahogany bay stallion. A beauty with considerable scope and substance. Sire of many fantastic foals such as *Ghazallahh. There are no Sheykh Obeyd Hadban Enzahi horses to Mashhour. His only Sheykh Obeyd daughter failed to produce after she was imported to the USA.


Best rgs

Mohamid El Zoubie
www.agarabianhorse.com



Dear Mohamid

May be I misunderstand your post, but "Haseeba" (1959) (Mashhour x Lateefa) had 2 daughters and 2 sons
registered in Germany and France. She is a Sheikh Obeyd Org. horse. A Hadbah Enzahiyah

SF Bint Mamlouka (1959) (Mashhour x Mamlouka) a Kuhaylah Ajud'Rodan)
had 12 daughters and 4 sons, all but Fooz (1969) bred by me. she is a sheikh Obeyd Org.horse.
All bred by Natural service.

Hayam (1959) (Mashhour x Tahia)- Saqlawi Jidraniyah and a Sheikh Obeyd Org.horse
had 3 daughters and one son.

Noha (1958) (Masshour x Samia) a Kuhaylah'Ajuz (Rodan) and a Sheikh Obeyd Org.Horse,
produced 8 daughter and 2 sons. She was also one year Egypt's Natioal Dancing champion and a race champion.

The consistency in producing excellent offspring, multiple champions at halter and under saddle is truly noteworthy.
Today I see the mindboggling speed,stamina, long strides, courage etc what I have left here.
My collegues breeders out there must have also some. It might be wise for some folks to look what is still availabe from this llinage. I know these horses are expensive, but then quality usually is, eh.

In the second Al Khamsa issue to come I have a photo in of Serenity Mashoura (1975) which clearly shows type,beauty and excellent conformation. It's under "down Memory Lane". I am releasing photos of some of the SEs of ours, which were never released before or hardly.

Take care and thanks for your wonderful educational post.

Hansi


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Dieter
post Jan 31 2012, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (diane @ Jan 30 2012, 06:55 AM) *
biggrin.gif '"By George, he's got it - By George, he's got it, Now once again" I think Ray's got it! You bin readin' Mr Paraskevas' volumes, Ray!

A great volume, Liz... worthy of a read!

Diane,

Are these volumes of a book or a periodical (by Mr. Paraskevas') and is there a title I should look for?

Ray,

Would you define "outcross" for me?



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2mntn
post Jan 31 2012, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Jan 31 2012, 10:29 AM) *
I may have to get this book to understand whatever it is that Ray's got wink.gif Are these volumes of a book or a periodical (by Mr. Paraskevas') and is there a name I should look for?


Actually Liz, I "got it" from you, back when you introduced me to the world of SE's, strain names and sent me off to explore a whole new world. Philipe Paraskevas has confirmed what many already knew, but had become "afraid" to talk about.

Arabian Horse World ran a great article on Philippe's breeding program in the Nov 2011 issue. You can see it online here:

http://issuu.com/arabianhorseworld/docs/1111_paraskevas

Philippe is the author of two books, so far. The Egyptian Alternative, Breeding the Arabian Horse, Volume 1, and The Egyptian Alternative, In Serach of the Identity of the Egyptian Arabian Bloodlines, Vol II. You can find them at Amazon, search for The Egyptian Alternative. I would love to be around to watch you read his works, as I know you will jump up and shout, YES!! fairly often. I did. smile.gif
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Dieter
post Jan 31 2012, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (hemo @ Jan 30 2012, 10:22 AM) *
Hi Liz,
I agree with you that it's diffecult to find aphot of Mashhour!
Mashhour was Bred by Royal Agricultural Society, Egypt.
(snipped)
Best rgs

Mohamid El Zoubie
www.agarabianhorse.com

Thank you for the in-depth information provided, the reminder he was bred by the RAS and the full body photo of Mashhour - it is truly appreciated.

Kindest Regards
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Dieter
post Jan 31 2012, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (2mntn @ Jan 31 2012, 12:49 PM) *
Actually Liz, I "got it" from you, back when you introduced me to the world of SE's, strain names and sent me off to explore a whole new world. Philipe Paraskevas has confirmed what many already knew, but had become "afraid" to talk about.

Arabian Horse World ran a great article on Philippe's breeding program in the Nov 2011 issue. You can see it online here:

http://issuu.com/arabianhorseworld/docs/1111_paraskevas

Philippe is the author of two books, so far. The Egyptian Alternative, Breeding the Arabian Horse, Volume 1, and The Egyptian Alternative, In Serach of the Identity of the Egyptian Arabian Bloodlines, Vol II. You can find them at Amazon, search for The Egyptian Alternative. I would love to be around to watch you read his works, as I know you will jump up and shout, YES!! fairly often. I did. smile.gif

Oh dear . . . sorry I edited my post because I thought I was being a bit too "cheeky" . . . I definitely recall taking an interest in strain names and sire lines and agree with you that the sire and dam families are different in the horses you've mentioned.

I have read "The Egyptian Alternative, Breeding the Arabian Horse" and thought it was an interesting read. I have not read his second book.
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2mntn
post Jan 31 2012, 06:13 PM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Jan 31 2012, 11:00 AM) *
Oh dear . . . sorry I edited my post because I thought I was being a bit too "cheeky" . . . I definitely recall taking an interest in strain names and sire lines and agree with you that the sire and dam families are different in the horses you've mentioned.

I have read "The Egyptian Alternative, Breeding the Arabian Horse" and thought it was an interesting read. I have not read his second book.


The ink is just barely dry on the second book, so you are not far behind... wink.gif
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Dieter
post Jan 31 2012, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE (HLM @ Jan 30 2012, 11:44 AM) *
(snipped)Noha (1958) (Masshour x Samia) a Kuhaylah'Ajuz (Rodan) and a Sheikh Obeyd Org.Horse,
produced 8 daughter and 2 sons. She was also one year Egypt's Natioal Dancing champion and a race champion.

The consistency in producing excellent offspring, multiple champions at halter and under saddle is truly noteworthy.
Today I see the mindboggling speed,stamina, long strides, courage etc what I have left here.
My collegues breeders out there must have also some. It might be wise for some folks to look what is still availabe from this llinage. I know these horses are expensive, but then quality usually is, eh.

In the second Al Khamsa issue to come I have a photo in of Serenity Mashoura (1975) which clearly shows type,beauty and excellent conformation. It's under "down Memory Lane". I am releasing photos of some of the SEs of ours, which were never released before or hardly.

Take care and thanks for your wonderful educational post.

Hansi

Dear Hansi,

Excellent information and I thank you for sharing . . . for the first time in the breeding history of JEVA Farms LLC, the *Noha family has been incorporated. Here are a few photos of a suckling filly from 2011 that is now a ball of fur. She has been described as "one big muscle", which was meant as a compliment, but also as a very pretty, well balanced little girl. She also likes children biggrin.gif rolleyes.gif Her sire was Omar Saalim and dam was Princess Alishaba . . . so it's an interesting pedigree for the future.
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Dieter
post Jan 31 2012, 06:41 PM
Post #30


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QUOTE (2mntn @ Jan 31 2012, 01:13 PM) *
The ink is just barely dry on the second book, so you are not far behind... wink.gif

Of course, this is useless information to the title of this thread and completely off topic, but I think Mr. P. was at the Event last year and did a seminar or something (I did not attend it) that I understood was not well-attended. This may seem silly, but I take issue with authors who make statements that are questionable or untrue (even if it does agree with Dr. Nagel). In his first book on page 66, he remarks that Nazeer had a "strong, short neck". Based upon the two photos attached, who can agree with that statement? So his credibility is somewhat problematic in some areas and his research then becomes suspect. Nazeer's neck, to me, was balanced and there was no hindrance to him in his ability to race well.

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