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> How The Hoof Works, From the Swedish Hoof School
Dieter
post Feb 8 2012, 11:54 AM
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Breakthrough information about founder, laminitis and healthy hooves. WARNING: VIDEO HAS BLOOD IN IT AND RESECTIONED HOOVES:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...p;v=ayEJacuoJ7I

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2mntn
post Feb 8 2012, 05:22 PM
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What are your comments, Liz?

While I agree with the premise that the hoof is not designed by nature to carry the wieght of the horse on the hoof walls, I do not agree that this experiment gives "final proof" that the coffin bone does not fall away from the hoof wall due to laminitis. The experiment has removed the dynamic of the deep digital flexor tendon, and is therefore incomplete. Also, their presentation of the coffin bone is from a posteroanterior view. When the coffin bone falls away from the hoof wall, it is seen in a lateral view which clearly shows the coffin bone as it relates to the hoof wall at the toe. I have seen too many x-ray's of coffin bone rotation to think otherwise.
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Dieter
post Feb 8 2012, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (2mntn @ Feb 8 2012, 12:22 PM) *
What are your comments, Liz?

While I agree with the premise that the hoof is not designed by nature to carry the wieght of the horse on the hoof walls, I do not agree that this experiment gives "final proof" that the coffin bone does not fall away from the hoof wall due to laminitis. The experiment has removed the dynamic of the deep digital flexor tendon, and is therefore incomplete. Also, their presentation of the coffin bone is from a posteroanterior view. When the coffin bone falls away from the hoof wall, it is seen in a lateral view which clearly shows the coffin bone as it relates to the hoof wall at the toe. I have seen too many x-ray's of coffin bone rotation to think otherwise.
Hi Ray, The video is educational, at least, and is a great argument for barefoot horses. This is part 1 so hopefully part 2 will have more to offer.

Luckily, we have not had laminitis issues with my horses with the exception of AW Kharisma who arrived foundered from Alderwood Arabians, but that was resolved with barefoot trimming and a rolled toe. Definitely I am no expert when it comes to laminitis as I've only ever seen one xray in my life for which I am thankful.

Hopefully some readers will find the video useful information.
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2mntn
post Feb 9 2012, 01:17 AM
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Thanks Liz,

One of the best sources of comprehensive "horse hoof" info I've come across is a book by David Gill, titled: "Farriery: The Whole Horse Concept"

If anyone is interested, the book can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/Farriery-Whole-Conce...l/dp/1904761550

David Gill is a farrier in the UK - information about him can be found here: http://www.thefarrierbox.co.uk/index.htm



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Dieter
post Feb 9 2012, 01:00 PM
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QUOTE (2mntn @ Feb 8 2012, 08:17 PM) *
Thanks Liz, One of the best sources of comprehensive "horse hoof" info I've come across is a book by David Gill, titled: "Farriery: The Whole Horse Concept" If anyone is interested, the book can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/Farriery-Whole-Conce...l/dp/1904761550
David Gill is a farrier in the UK - information about him can be found here: http://www.thefarrierbox.co.uk/index.htm
Thanks Ray. David is an advocate of shod horses it seems. Evidence leans towards a barefoot hoof being much healthier for the horse. With shoes, the hoof wall thins, the contraction and expansion of the heel is limited thus reducing blood flow, the sole and frog are no longer the blood pumping, oxygen moving, weight bearing partners of the horses weight causing the (likely) thinning hoof wall of the consistently shod horse to bear the marjority of the weight, stress and concussion with every hoof step. Also, the hoof is not allowed to wear naturally, which is a great benefit as well to maintain the horses natural angles oftentimes compensating for construction above the hoof. For the health of the laminae, and the entire hoof it is best for our horses to be barefoot whenever possible - I believe it prevents laminitis and founder. That said, I am an advocate for barefoot horses, do not shoe my horses and have not once had an incidence of founder or laminitis of the horses owned, bred and raised on my farm where we breed for big round symmetrical hooves with naturally beneficial angles. The result is sound and very tough feet with healthy soles, and frogs and stronger, thicker hoof walls (as pictured). Advocates for shod horses have their opinion, but I believe it to be outdated and resistant to change for irrational reasons. wink.gif

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2mntn
post Feb 9 2012, 05:46 PM
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Almost all of my horses are barefoot and they do fairly well that way. I do notice bruising of the sole and the occasional abscess.

Given that shoeing is not likely to go away any time soon, Gill aims to promote an understanding of “the whole horse”. He devotes chapters to anatomy, with detailed study and analysis of skeletal, bone, joint, muscle, and vascular systems along with conformation mechanics and movement dynamics. He cites Dr. Deb Bennett, among several others. His writing style incorporates hard-core science and medical terminology in an easy-to-understand dialog, which is complimented by many illustrations and photographs to aid in comprehension.

David Gill is an advocate for hoof management which is based upon a good understanding of hoof mechanics, the proposition that horses are asymmetrical and, as individuals, one size does not fit all. He feels that a partnership must exist between horse owner, farrier and vet, so that all human involvement in the management process is understood and agreed upon by all. He believes that the type of horse, the type of work, the environment they live in and the management they receive are all factors in determining whether they are better off with, or without shoes.

Gill cites the famous study done by Jim Miller and Nyles Van Hoosen on herds of wild mustangs out west. He notes that “abscesses due to hoof imbalances are reportedly the main reason behind the premature deaths of wild mustangs, which proves nature itself is not as benign as we may think it is.”

The idea that the sole and frog must be in contact with the ground to provide adequate circulation is a common misconception. The pedal bone working against the sole and frog provides needed circulation. The hoof capsule is designed, by nature, to take the brunt of the ground contact. Shoes are an extension of the hoof capsule and, when properly applied, do not interfere with nature. Thin-walled hoof capsules are a result of genetics, not of shoeing.
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Nadj al Nur
post Feb 9 2012, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (2mntn @ Feb 9 2012, 09:46 AM) *
Gill cites the famous study done by Jim Miller and Nyles Van Hoosen on herds of wild mustangs out west. He notes that “abscesses due to hoof imbalances are reportedly the main reason behind the premature deaths of wild mustangs, which proves nature itself is not as benign as we may think it is.”

That and problems with their teeth. Our dentist has a collection of skulls of wild horses from Alberta. If they didn't die from feet problems, then they sure would have died from not being able to chew.
C
Edited to add that the oldest one appears to be about 17.
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M.D.
post Feb 9 2012, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Feb 8 2012, 12:54 PM) *
Breakthrough information about founder, laminitis and healthy hooves. WARNING: VIDEO HAS BLOOD IN IT AND RESECTIONED HOOVES:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...p;v=ayEJacuoJ7I


Dear Mrs. Dieter :

this is really neat of you to come out with this. It is one of my interests to refresh my memory and find new methods people of the particular fields of horse care have developed over the years.
I came across the same footage last year. And it actually took me weeks to work down my resistance to look at something that gross. I thought not to put it on here because I thought people would feel violently sick seeing something like that.
I had been actually looking at quarter crack and crack hoof repair, at the time. Of course there are a lot of videos that also can sharpen the eye concerning a farriers work with different methods applied when it comes to correcting several hoof problems. What I find interesting is ,for them to have developed different horseshoeing after they worked on hooves. It takes longer than a year to "heal" hooves, once the mistake of an owner is addressed. Sometimes it is obvious.Sometimes and owner is not aware of something going amiss. And sometimes , any particular farrier can not see what is going on. Or it could be simple neglect by unsuspecting horse owner(s).
Or, hoof problems can come from overstressing hooves.

But all these scenarios are the result of something. The laminitis , as other conditions befalling the horse , can be treated. But how about prevention ?
Laminitis always had an underlying cause. Too much fructane in the gras during fall and frosty periods, dew on morning grasses,overfeeding and/or the wrong dietary measures for the individual horse. Not enough movement for the horse also seems to contribute. If you know of any more causes, please let me know.

I couldn't believe how many so called horse people do not know the basics in my community.No matter what the breed is. These people never heard of such a thing as taking care of a horses teeth once a year. And while teeth are equally important for digestion and prepare the food for absorption of nutrients, the teeth of wild Mustangs can not be helped. The wild Mustang has got other problems, than its teeth. Those skulls mentioned are the skulls of victims of the BLM. The researchers who are in the field should be able to tell the tale.
Their actual research and tracking-monitoring of the herds they attached themselves to is utterly compromised and yield no data. Because the skulls of their herd members are now probably the ones reappearing in places like Canada in the hands of a dentist.

Yes the Mustangs die. But not of bad teeth or dietary problems. Unless they are in North Nevada. Ask any farmer. They'll tell you its also the lack of vegetation and water. Some of these farmers have been giving their water and feed to bands of Mustangs who simply showed up in search of it. Stood by the fence and watched the cows drink. So the farmers are running full tankdrives of water out to the bands. At least during the time I was able to visit there, on and off.
I am no longer there. maybe that changed because of the drought.

After I was done looking at hooves for the time being, I started to look at horse therapeutic methods. And was very delighted. This is great. Horse therapy has finally gained ground and is one of the most interesting topics for me. Pain and severe conditions can be combated. I have seen the most amazing corrections by trained specialists. Finally ! You should see what these massage therapists do. I almost fell of my chair.

All the girls, who always knew how to treat and touch a horse are now exonerated. It is not "silly" girly stuff. It is relaxing for the horse. And also improves the quality of life for the horse.
There are some very good videos in which one can see the instant relief concerning sinews, muscles, cartilage and skellettal problem zones. You will see horses being "cracked" (Cracking horses") , massaged and gently stretched and bend. These patients sigh, lick and show instant results. If I had a horse in need with more severe problems of what is shown there I would hire a professional horse therapist as I would do more damage than is good for the horse.

I hope you like it, too.

Back to the issue of hooves I mainly look towards the advice of competent farriers.
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Nadj al Nur
post Feb 9 2012, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (M.D. @ Feb 9 2012, 01:33 PM) *
. Those skulls mentioned are the skulls of victims of the BLM. The researchers who are in the field should be able to tell the tale.
Their actual research and tracking-monitoring of the herds they attached themselves to is utterly compromised and yield no data. Because the skulls of their herd members are now probably the ones reappearing in places like Canada in the hands of a dentist.

No, they are not. All were found in northern Alberta, (and a few in BC ) years before the BLM was even heard of around here.
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M.D.
post Feb 9 2012, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE (Nadj al Nur @ Feb 9 2012, 10:45 PM) *
No, they are not. All were found in northern Alberta, (and a few in BC ) years before the BLM was even heard of around here.


Okay.
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Dieter
post Feb 11 2012, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE (2mntn @ Feb 9 2012, 12:46 PM) *
Almost all of my horses are barefoot and they do fairly well that way. I do notice bruising of the sole and the occasional abscess.

Given that shoeing is not likely to go away any time soon, Gill aims to promote an understanding of “the whole horse”. He devotes chapters to anatomy, with detailed study and analysis of skeletal, bone, joint, muscle, and vascular systems along with conformation mechanics and movement dynamics. He cites Dr. Deb Bennett, among several others. His writing style incorporates hard-core science and medical terminology in an easy-to-understand dialog, which is complimented by many illustrations and photographs to aid in comprehension. Sounds smart.

David Gill is an advocate for hoof management which is based upon a good understanding of hoof mechanics, the proposition that horses are asymmetrical and, as individuals, one size does not fit all. He feels that a partnership must exist between horse owner, farrier and vet, so that all human involvement in the management process is understood and agreed upon by all. He believes that the type of horse, the type of work, the environment they live in and the management they receive are all factors in determining whether they are better off with, or without shoes. Sounds smart.

Gill cites the famous study done by Jim Miller and Nyles Van Hoosen on herds of wild mustangs out west. He notes that “abscesses due to hoof imbalances are reportedly the main reason behind the premature deaths of wild mustangs, which proves nature itself is not as benign as we may think it is.”

The idea that the sole and frog must be in contact with the ground to provide adequate circulation is a common misconception. Disagree. The pedal bone working against the sole and frog provides needed circulation. The hoof capsule is designed, by nature, to take the brunt of the ground contact. Disagree. Shoes are an extension of the hoof capsule and, when properly applied, do not interfere with nature. Thin-walled hoof capsules are a result of genetics, not of shoeing.Disagree.

It sounds like a smart approach for the most part, and I intend to read more, but I disagree with the age-old conclusions drawn, i.e., sole and frog not touching the ground being a misconception, thin hoof walls being genetic and I'll tell you why:

Mechanically speaking, in lay terms that make sense to me, if the weight of the horse is borne by the bones and the bones are in the middle of the hoof, with every footfall, the bones hit the bars, frog and sole first as the heel expands - the heel touches the ground first with every step forward. Healing blood is pushed through the laminae to the hoof wall delivering nutrients and oxygen to keep the hoof wall healthy, enabling it to grow and heal. The hoof wall protects the interior of the hoof and supports the sole, bars and frog. Shoes preventing heel expansion which do not allow the bars, frog and sole to hit the ground (in various stages of shock absorption) - lending support to the interior of the hoof so it is not torn away in bits and pieces from the hoof wall - cause the laminae to over-stretch and tear from their attachment to the hoof wall (when the hoof wall bears the brunt of the weight). Small tears may result in abscesses as the body sends cells to heal the ruptures. In addition to concussion to the hoof wall, and if a wild horse is NOT wearing down it's hoof walls evenly (depends on environment) so the bars, frog and sole touch the ground, the horse may develop abscesses. Abscesses may also be caused by digestive toxins and may make a lame horse easy prey. Thin hoof walls in domesticated horses are a product of man, not genetics, 99% of the time. Improper nutrition from conception, improper hoof care, doing everything opposite of what a horse needs (they need free will exercise, allowing the horse to stand in mud/moisture often, good nutrition from conception stimulates the body's memory of where to send what and when) may result in thin hoof walls. Stalling babies and stalling/shoeing yearlings, 2 year olds, 3 year olds is a mistake.

All that said, I will read more from the link you provided. Thanks. smile.gif
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M.D.
post Feb 11 2012, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE (Dieter @ Feb 8 2012, 12:54 PM) *
Breakthrough information about founder, laminitis and healthy hooves. WARNING: VIDEO HAS BLOOD IN IT AND RESECTIONED HOOVES:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...p;v=ayEJacuoJ7I


Dear Mrs. Dieter:

I just found out recently I have chosen the wrong place for my horses concerning their hooves.
They are barefoot and do not need overly soft grounds to live on. This involves the way a stall or indoor living space should be handled. I too thought it best to apply thicker or thick padding inside them. The original thought behind this was to make it as comfortable as possible for them.
I am now considering harder grounds to be of more importance for hoof health . I read and saw this as a natural requirement for the development of the hooves of newborn foals .It is said the foals develop a harder, nicer hoof when naturally exposed to hard ground and long walks besides their dams in order to condense the structure ,early on.

In older days broodmares were ridden when the foal was very young.In which the foal has got to follow its mother trotting away from the foal.
This reminds me of an outraged breeder who was nearly livid when called by a buyer who mentioned to wish to purchase the broodmare for breeding and riding.
Old practice was to use broodmares, if needed, to herd other broodmares and their foals out to pasture and back at big and old State Studs in the east of Europe.Including Hungary.
Proof of this is in one of Erika Schiele's books " Araber in Europa".

These Arabian horses and other breeds probably have had healthier hooves, than some of the horses today. The foals had to walk and run across partially hard ground all day long.Except for some breaks in which the rider who attended ...took a nap.I think he must hobbled his broodmare for that.









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Dieter
post Feb 13 2012, 01:48 AM
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QUOTE (M.D. @ Feb 11 2012, 09:36 AM) *
Dear Mrs. Dieter:

I just found out recently I have chosen the wrong place for my horses concerning their hooves.
They are barefoot and do not need overly soft grounds to live on. This involves the way a stall or indoor living space should be handled. I too thought it best to apply thicker or thick padding inside them. The original thought behind this was to make it as comfortable as possible for them. I am now considering harder grounds to be of more importance for hoof health . I read and saw this as a natural requirement for the development of the hooves of newborn foals .It is said the foals develop a harder, nicer hoof when naturally exposed to hard ground and long walks besides their dams in order to condense the structure ,early on.

In older days broodmares were ridden when the foal was very young.In which the foal has got to follow its mother trotting away from the foal. This reminds me of an outraged breeder who was nearly livid when called by a buyer who mentioned to wish to purchase the broodmare for breeding and riding. Old practice was to use broodmares, if needed, to herd other broodmares and their foals out to pasture and back at big and old State Studs in the east of Europe.Including Hungary.
Proof of this is in one of Erika Schiele's books " Araber in Europa".

These Arabian horses and other breeds probably have had healthier hooves, than some of the horses today. The foals had to walk and run across partially hard ground all day long.Except for some breaks in which the rider who attended ...took a nap.I think he must hobbled his broodmare for that.
Yep and I agree with you entirely smile.gif
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