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> Romance Versa Reality, You comments please.
HLM
post Mar 1 2012, 02:51 PM
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We all know that the Arabian horse is the progenator of most all warmblood breeds. Over centuries Asil Arab blood was utlized to improve, stamina, easy keeping,endurance, speed etc, a DOING HORSE!.

While the Arabian horse is considered the most beautiful equine, that no other equine breed brings forth the intelligence and with it sensitivity, the love and affection for their owners, we must not forget these qualities
AND UTILIZE THEM WISELY.

The Bedus did not breed for horses to look at, to hug and kiss and adore, they bred for SURVIVAL, and their best were treasured highly. Only from these BEST they bred from, and their blood flows through the veins of our Arabians of today. How we handled this, is evident in many ways.

I always feel that turning these Arabians into PETS, GARDEN ORNAMENTS, turning many into mental and physical
retards is an insult to this sub-species. It stands to reason that at the time of the Bedus not every horse turned out to their liking as a DOING HORSE, or as a BREEDING HORSE, as it is today. Therefore careful grading should take place.
Horses which can not be considered special DOING HORSES, can easily be utlized as children horses, school horses
or pets in our pastures.There is nothing wrong with the latter at all. However, one can hardly consider these as breeding stock.

When we look back into the history of Eastern/Western nations, we notice that many a high commander, king or prince rode an Arabian horse into battle. Monuments of rider and horse are still visible in numerous countries.

I personally feel that ROMANCE does NOT belong in the breeding shed, but common sense should prevail.

How do you all feel about this?

Hansi

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Kimberli
post Mar 1 2012, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (HLM @ Mar 1 2012, 02:51 PM) *
We all know that the Arabian horse is the progenator of most all warmblood breeds. Over centuries Asil Arab blood was utlized to improve, stamina, easy keeping,endurance, speed etc, a DOING HORSE!.

While the Arabian horse is considered the most beautiful equine, that no other equine breed brings forth the intelligence and with it sensitivity, the love and affection for their owners, we must not forget these qualities
AND UTILIZE THEM WISELY.

The Bedus did not breed for horses to look at, to hug and kiss and adore, they bred for SURVIVAL, and their best were treasured highly. Only from these BEST they bred from, and their blood flows through the veins of our Arabians of today. How we handled this, is evident in many ways.

I always feel that turning these Arabians into PETS, GARDEN ORNAMENTS, turning many into mental and physical
retards is an insult to this sub-species. It stands to reason that at the time of the Bedus not every horse turned out to their liking as a DOING HORSE, or as a BREEDING HORSE, as it is today. Therefore careful grading should take place.
Horses which can not be considered special DOING HORSES, can easily be utlized as children horses, school horses
or pets in our pastures.There is nothing wrong with the latter at all. However, one can hardly consider these as breeding stock.

When we look back into the history of Eastern/Western nations, we notice that many a high commander, king or prince rode an Arabian horse into battle. Monuments of rider and horse are still visible in numerous countries.

I personally feel that ROMANCE does NOT belong in the breeding shed, but common sense should prevail.

How do you all feel about this?

Hansi

,


Hansi, I love you very much and I appreciate you for your common sense but I also love the dreamers of our world. Without them reading about our beautiful horses would be nothing more than lists. Please let everyone be what they are and stop trying to make everyone be like you. Try to appreciate people for what they add to our world even if it romantic.
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Anjuli Bai
post Mar 1 2012, 03:58 PM
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You are so right, Hansi.

But as long as the leader of the WAHO is producing and selling garden ornaments, nothing will change.

The German Arabian Registry just have released the breeding manager, Diether von Kleist, who has campaigned for ridden and correct horses.
Klaus Beste came back to take his place.

That was the decision of the association Board; the association members were not consulted. mad.gif

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HLM
post Mar 1 2012, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (Kimberli @ Mar 1 2012, 04:57 PM) *
Hansi, I love you very much and I appreciate you for your common sense but I also love the dreamers of our world. Without them reading about our beautiful horses would be nothing more than lists. Please let everyone be what they are and stop trying to make everyone be like you. Try to appreciate people for what they add to our world even if it romantic.



Dear Kimberly

I always felt that the Bedus of llong ago and even up todate have given us something which needs great care and a sound sense of responsibillity. I am thinking and acting no different than millions of equine owners around the worl, and most certain understand that everybody should do as they please. I continue to remind of what a a horse is supposed to be and do, and the great pleasure so many have riding or driving they beloved horses. therefore, please take no offence, do as you feel is right for you but try to understand and reallize that an incredible sub-species, the Arabian horse, can some day vanish due to lack of true preservation. I realy dislike to see our future generation dealing with "rocking horses" (those wooden ones) as once GB Edwards had to do.

take care and thank you for giving you opinion.

Hansi






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Kimberli
post Mar 1 2012, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (HLM @ Mar 1 2012, 07:48 PM) *
Dear Kimberly

I always felt that the Bedus of llong ago and even up todate have given us something which needs great care and a sound sense of responsibillity. I am thinking and acting no different than millions of equine owners around the worl, and most certain understand that everybody should do as they please. I continue to remind of what a a horse is supposed to be and do, and the great pleasure so many have riding or driving they beloved horses. therefore, please take no offence, do as you feel is right for you but try to understand and reallize that an incredible sub-species, the Arabian horse, can some day vanish due to lack of true preservation. I realy dislike to see our future generation dealing with "rocking horses" (those wooden ones) as once GB Edwards had to do.

take care and thank you for giving you opinion.

Hansi



Hansi, you can do this without insulting anyone. The post above could and should have been your first post. It is not insulting yet states what you wanted to say. Kimberli
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HLM
post Mar 1 2012, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE (Anjuli Bai @ Mar 1 2012, 05:58 PM) *
You are so right, Hansi.

But as long as the leader of the WAHO is producing and selling garden ornaments, nothing will change.

The German Arabian Registry just have released the breeding manager, Diether von Kleist, who has campaigned for ridden and correct horses.
Klaus Beste came back to take his place.

That was the decision of the association Board; the association members were not consulted. mad.gif



DEar Anjuli Bai

I dont know Herrn Dieter von Kleist personally, but have seen Klaus Beste riding and winning an endurance race at Marchbach time ago.

At my time the Germans just loved riding, competed heavily up to Olympic levels successfully.
Is it not up to the members to let their wishes or concerns known and then vote on it?
Germany is doing well in endurance riding, dressage etc. and hopefully this will not only continue but
broadened.

I know that most all desert country persue the sport of riding, racing, etc. and possibly Kuwait will make a stronger appearance as well.

Good luck and best regards
Hansi
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stuart
post Mar 1 2012, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (HLM @ Mar 1 2012, 03:51 PM) *
We all know that the Arabian horse is the progenator of most all warmblood breeds. Over centuries Asil Arab blood was utlized to improve, stamina, easy keeping,endurance, speed etc, a DOING HORSE!.

While the Arabian horse is considered the most beautiful equine, that no other equine breed brings forth the intelligence and with it sensitivity, the love and affection for their owners, we must not forget these qualities
AND UTILIZE THEM WISELY.

The Bedus did not breed for horses to look at, to hug and kiss and adore, they bred for SURVIVAL, and their best were treasured highly. Only from these BEST they bred from, and their blood flows through the veins of our Arabians of today. How we handled this, is evident in many ways.

I always feel that turning these Arabians into PETS, GARDEN ORNAMENTS, turning many into mental and physical
retards is an insult to this sub-species. It stands to reason that at the time of the Bedus not every horse turned out to their liking as a DOING HORSE, or as a BREEDING HORSE, as it is today. Therefore careful grading should take place.
Horses which can not be considered special DOING HORSES, can easily be utlized as children horses, school horses
or pets in our pastures.There is nothing wrong with the latter at all. However, one can hardly consider these as breeding stock.

When we look back into the history of Eastern/Western nations, we notice that many a high commander, king or prince rode an Arabian horse into battle. Monuments of rider and horse are still visible in numerous countries.

I personally feel that ROMANCE does NOT belong in the breeding shed, but common sense should prevail.

How do you all feel about this?

Hansi

,


Dear Hansi,

All of the above does indeed have resonance, however it is necessary to remember that, for many of us, our Arabian horses are geographically displaced!
I will take a tank in a mares place into general battle wink.gif .....unless of course I wish to be swift and very quiet laugh.gif

The 'onus' should be on how to take these horses forward.... utilising all of their attributes....... into the time and the hemisphere in which the horse resides.

Embrace all of their usages and promote this,rather than condescend those that wish to use & enjoy them in a more sedentary way, even if only out on pasture...........and most breeders have a few of these!

Promote the more exciting partnership and you will have more listeners.

The in-hand horse seems to carry the larger following......... and yet nobody could decry the thrill of partnering an Arabian as his/her rider??

Until the thrill and ultimate goal once again....... becomes a ridden goal as history dictates and the future offers........ then the time is now, to bury hatchets of old and move forward to maintain what is remaining of both original and imported Arabian Horses.......because that is all that is really of interest.........not who or whom is shouting the loudest - or is on the erstwhile top rung of the ladder rolleyes.gif

Good thread.

My regards

Stuart.
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HLM
post Mar 1 2012, 10:01 PM
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QUOTE (Kimberli @ Mar 1 2012, 09:03 PM) *
Hansi, you can do this without insulting anyone. The post above could and should have been your first post. It is not insulting yet states what you wanted to say. Kimberli


Kimberly, I dont follow you. I had no intention, nor did I think I insulted. I stated what I feel, and many of my collegues feel this way too. You and I come from a different culture and express or behave accordingly.
I bit of understanding would go a long way. I also dont know how much clearer I can express my self, being so deeply concerned about the horses, all of them.

Hansi
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HLM
post Mar 1 2012, 10:18 PM
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QUOTE (stuart @ Mar 1 2012, 10:48 PM) *
Dear Hansi,

All of the above does indeed have resonance, however it is necessary to remember that, for many of us, our Arabian horses are geographically displaced!
I will take a tank in a mares place into general battle wink.gif .....unless of course I wish to be swift and very quiet laugh.gif

The 'onus' should be on how to take these horses forward.... utilising all of their attributes....... into the time and the hemisphere in which the horse resides.

Embrace all of their usages and promote this,rather than condescend those that wish to use & enjoy them in a more sedentary way, even if only out on pasture...........and most breeders have a few of these!

Promote the more exciting partnership and you will have more listeners.

The in-hand horse seems to carry the larger following......... and yet nobody could decry the thrill of partnering an Arabian as his/her rider??

Until the thrill and ultimate goal once again....... becomes a ridden goal as history dictates and the future offers........ then the time is now, to bury hatchets of old and move forward to maintain what is remaining of both original and imported Arabian Horses.......because that is all that is really of interest.........not who or whom is shouting the loudest - or is on the erstwhile top rung of the ladder rolleyes.gif

Good thread.

My regards

Stuart.



yes dear Stuart you are right. However, I am deeply concerned about many of the Arabian horses which neverr saw a saddle and could do it all, I am worried that these magnificent horses indeed turn in to mental or physical vegtables, as a human would be, denied proper exercise and exposure.

I showed on halter hundreds of times, but these halter horses were also under saddle. My collegues at that time did the same and the SE in particular was put on the Map, so to speak. From day one of imports to here and Canada the Arabians were used, given the chance to develop mind and body. The ones denied all this are to me like a child looking out of the window seeing his playmates involved in football game, or hockey, or whatever, and such child looking out of the window watching it disallowed to join.

A human being developes his/her brain by using it constantly. Same goes for the body.
But so does the horse, the dogs or other animals. I have horses in pasture and dont like it for some.
I understand if also others have trouble getting adequate help, in particular riders. However, my stallions are always trained and enjoyed it. Serenity Mamlouk will be a full 33 years of age on March 8th. He raced,won, was trained,etc.etc. For about two years he exercises himself for 2 hours on a cirle in his paddock, goes in to eat and drink and then continues another 2 hours, this all day long. He is keeping himself healthy and up, and that on bis own.
He is telling me a lot. My mares have to run 3/4 of a mile to get to drink or eat, and keep themselves in top condition.
I feel certain that those belonging to many of our collegues do the same.

The Desertbred, the Asil, regardless of what label it is given,. is a very intelligent, sensitive and curious individual.
Gets borred so easy, even in training, unless being taught every day something new. I guess this is why many love going on trails, outings, etc. Always something new to see and hear, eh..


However, each to its own, I can lead a horse to water but cant make it drink

Take care
Hansi
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Nadj al Nur
post Mar 1 2012, 10:29 PM
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Somehow, I don't think you can separate the romance of the Arabian horse from the horse itself..The romance of this particular breed of horse is PART of the reality. It's long history is part of the romance. It's beauty is part of the romance. It's extraordinary ability to bond with humans, and work together as a full partner, is part of it's romance. It's innately gentle and yet highly spirited nature is part of the romance.If you try to separate those things from the Arabian horse, you are losing a great part of what he is, whether it is in the breeding shed, or outside of it.
Cathy
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HADHAD ARABIANS
post Mar 1 2012, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (HLM @ Mar 1 2012, 03:51 PM) *
We all know that the Arabian horse is the progenator of most all warmblood breeds. Over centuries Asil Arab blood was utlized to improve, stamina, easy keeping,endurance, speed etc, a DOING HORSE!.

While the Arabian horse is considered the most beautiful equine, that no other equine breed brings forth the intelligence and with it sensitivity, the love and affection for their owners, we must not forget these qualities
AND UTILIZE THEM WISELY.

The Bedus did not breed for horses to look at, to hug and kiss and adore, they bred for SURVIVAL, and their best were treasured highly. Only from these BEST they bred from, and their blood flows through the veins of our Arabians of today. How we handled this, is evident in many ways.

I always feel that turning these Arabians into PETS, GARDEN ORNAMENTS, turning many into mental and physical
retards is an insult to this sub-species. It stands to reason that at the time of the Bedus not every horse turned out to their liking as a DOING HORSE, or as a BREEDING HORSE, as it is today. Therefore careful grading should take place.
Horses which can not be considered special DOING HORSES, can easily be utlized as children horses, school horses
or pets in our pastures.There is nothing wrong with the latter at all. However, one can hardly consider these as breeding stock.

When we look back into the history of Eastern/Western nations, we notice that many a high commander, king or prince rode an Arabian horse into battle. Monuments of rider and horse are still visible in numerous countries.

I personally feel that ROMANCE does NOT belong in the breeding shed, but common sense should prevail.

How do you all feel about this?

Hansi

,


gbfahne.gif
Dear Hansi,

I live in Maremma, the land that Michelangelo Merisi (called Caravaggio) crossed in the last days of his wild life; he died on the beach of Porto Ercole, killed by malarial fever: it was july 18th 1610.
The Maremma is also the land that saw the raids of Saracens and is land of horses, so I can understand very well your thought that I share; unfortunately, broadly speaking, I don't believe in the ruling class of our associations, otherwise we didn't have come to such a point.
"I always felt that the Bedus of llong ago and even up todate have given us something which needs great care and a sound sense of responsibillity." This phrase you wrote is very right.

Best regards,
Domenico Tocchi

HADHAD ARABIANS
www.hadhad-arabians.com
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stuart
post Mar 1 2012, 11:13 PM
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Qouting Hansi......."The Desertbred, the Asil, regardless of what label it is given,. is a very intelligent, sensitive and curious individual.
Gets borred so easy, even in training, unless being taught every day something new. I guess this is why many love going on trails, outings, etc. Always something new to see and hear, eh."

Dear Hansi,

On the above.... I can only happily agree.

Nadj al Nur Posted Today, 11:29 PM
Somehow, I don't think you can separate the romance of the Arabian horse from the horse itself..The romance of this particular breed of horse is PART of the reality. It's long history is part of the romance. It's beauty is part of the romance. It's extraordinary ability to bond with humans, and work together as a full partner, is part of it's romance. It's innately gentle and yet highly spirited nature is part of the romance.If you try to separate those things from the Arabian horse, you are losing a great part of what he is, whether it is in the breeding shed, or outside of it.
Cathy

Dear Cathy,
The above is the main part of what keeps many of us wholeheartedly clinched to the breed.........and may be one of the reasons for folks primary interest.

What is the way forward though? To promote this breed into 2013 and far beyond?
We already know that Halter showing is the main recognition for the breed....... Why? How has every other strength become drowned and lost?

I am curious as to how the Arabian is now known in the 2000's as an in-hand exibit primarily...... rather than for any other reason i.e Distance/Endurance - I cannot believe it is solely due to Dollar/Pound/Euro advantage. My suggestion is that is more due to the enthusiastic 1 or 2 horse owner/producer/breeder having given up trying to find a "voice" anymore!!

The main interest for any Arabian Horse loyalist should be, to encourage the guardians of the Arab in todays world to find their voice in writing and, show the rest of us the way forward.........or remind us what may have been forgotten as a primary objective!

If all the horses are gone in 50 years........ it really will not matter who their mother was - let alone their father ....... or what strain they did or did not carry ohmy.gif .........

............because Arabians in Asil or any other form will follow the Dodo through rhetoric and no action unsure.gif



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HLM
post Mar 1 2012, 11:46 PM
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QUOTE (stuart @ Mar 2 2012, 12:13 AM) *
Qouting Hansi......."The Desertbred, the Asil, regardless of what label it is given,. is a very intelligent, sensitive and curious individual.
Gets borred so easy, even in training, unless being taught every day something new. I guess this is why many love going on trails, outings, etc. Always something new to see and hear, eh."

Dear Hansi,

On the above.... I can only happily agree.

Nadj al Nur Posted Today, 11:29 PM
Somehow, I don't think you can separate the romance of the Arabian horse from the horse itself..The romance of this particular breed of horse is PART of the reality. It's long history is part of the romance. It's beauty is part of the romance. It's extraordinary ability to bond with humans, and work together as a full partner, is part of it's romance. It's innately gentle and yet highly spirited nature is part of the romance.If you try to separate those things from the Arabian horse, you are losing a great part of what he is, whether it is in the breeding shed, or outside of it.
Cathy

Dear Cathy,
The above is the main part of what keeps many of us wholeheartedly clinched to the breed.........and may be one of the reasons for folks primary interest.

What is the way forward though? To promote this breed into 2013 and far beyond?
We already know that Halter showing is the main recognition for the breed....... Why? How has every other strength become drowned and lost?

I am curious as to how the Arabian is now known in the 2000's as an in-hand exibit primarily...... rather than for any other reason i.e Distance/Endurance - I cannot believe it is solely due to Dollar/Pound/Euro advantage. My suggestion is that is more due to the enthusiastic 1 or 2 horse owner/producer/breeder having given up trying to find a "voice" anymore!!

The main interest for any Arabian Horse loyalist should be, to encourage the guardians of the Arab in todays world to find their voice in writing and, show the rest of us the way forward.........or remind us what may have been forgotten as a primary objective!

If all the horses are gone in 50 years........ it really will not matter who their mother was - let alone their father ....... or what strain they did or did not carry ohmy.gif .........

............because Arabians in Asil or any other form will follow the Dodo through rhetoric and no action unsure.gif



Der Stuart

I wish I could write as elequantly as you do, but realize that you understand what I am trying to convey.

I have seen with our smaller breeders horses with such excellent fundament, great substance, flying machines.
I have seen some of these with our large breeders too, except they were only shown at halter. Each one of these one wantsto put a saddle on and ride through the winde blue yanders, so to speak.
As a rider, when I see a good horse, with excellen movevent and that gentle eye, fire burning within, I pray it be given half a chance. I look ino their brains (please dont laugh now as I can feel what they are thinking) just wanting to bust out and run and run and run some more. Its like a child, wanting to play, but attached to mother's hand.

Its not only all that, what I fear is how one can truly judge a horse without testing under saddle, how one can decide what to breed to what and truly help preserving. Our large breeders of the past all tested their horses, and mated them accordingly.

As far as romance is concerned, no problem, but at the end performance counts. I dont hink that Arabians in the very past were bought because of romance, they were bought and bred to go to battle, do other work and sustain their owners.

I think of the great "Maidan" a desert bred who did the steeple chase in England against TBs at age 20, and again at age 25 a three miler. I think of Dwarka, Alfragan, Shahzada, Robin, Belka, Fedaan, Sainfoin, Kimaree, Outlaw, Maid of the Moot, Shwaima ,Ramia , etvc.etc. and of course "Astraled" who walked from Oregon to New Hampshire in 21 days at age 22 in 1922 while his daughter Ramla winning here the 310 mile race. and then walk/run all he way back. Many of the above horses are recorded in the English records.

These are the Arab horses who guide me. It took many centuries to build, can we alow to have it destroyed in a decade or two? I truly feel that we must constantly remind of facts, not fictions or romance alone, and try our best to maintain HONOR for the Arabian Horses.

Take care
Hansi


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Nadj al Nur
post Mar 2 2012, 12:14 AM
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You know, Hansi, I agree with a lot of what you say. I too think that our horses should "have a job" so to speak, but another part of the reality is, that things are not the same as they were fifty or sixty or seventy years ago when horses were a neccesary thing in a lot more places than they are now. There are no war horses anymore. That is now part of the romance. Most people have horses because they love them and love being around horses but there are not a lot of places where horses are NEEDED to do a days work anymore (there are still some though) A lot of people are not competitve at all. They don't care if they have ribbons or trophies or if their horse wins at something...........and I know that you always say testing can be at home and all of that, but I think you would be amazed at what a lot of the horses are still doing, herding cattle, pulling buggies, carts etc.Some people think that trail horses are somehow inferior to other disciplines, but believe me, they need to be just as tough and smart and willing as any other working horse. It's just that they get none of the recognition of the "winners" They are like the invisible majority that nobody ever hears of. They are out there, in the thousands, quietly doing what they do and bringing great joy to their people, and being very useful in that way. I think that counts for a lot.
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Kimberli
post Mar 2 2012, 03:35 AM
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5 year old stallion - 14 year old girl - girl 100 of hours in the saddle - stallion? his 2nd time being ridden.

Straight Egyptian


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