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> Breeding Question
tailflagger
post Mar 15 2005, 03:29 PM
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Hi again! I am sick and home from school today and board so that is why I am posting so much, I hope no one minds too much.

I have seen several of the older "style" of mares and stallions for sale lately of all lines, not just SE. Many of the body "styles" are different than what the current trend is today. I was wondering how you would choose to breed this type of horse or use it in a modern program. I know there will be a variety of answers.

I personally like what I have seen of the SE's from the 80's and like how they are built. I have noticed our modern body types seem to have a longer neck overall (not just talking about the extreme here), and a more slight body style, as well as a more extreme head.

How would these horses be able to be kept in production if desired to produce a marketable or showable foal?

Jessi
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HLM
post Mar 15 2005, 04:10 PM
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Dear Jessie

A horse is a horse is a horse!!!!!!
Conformation is judged in consideration of functiobility.
Type is a matter of opinion and what one prefers, since there are so many different types.

Hansi biggrin.gif
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Guest_CathGuest_*
post Mar 15 2005, 06:48 PM
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I think what Jessie maybe means is: if you were to buy an old-fashioned, larger bodied, good legged and less-dished older mare, would it be worth breeding her to get a "modern" Arab for the showring?

Or maybe she doesnt...............
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Sliver
post Mar 15 2005, 07:16 PM
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Depends on what you want to accomplish with said mare. Do you want to stick with that type or do you want to lean towards the newer type. What are you looking to do with the resulting foal?

Preference is all in the eyes of the beholder.

I like and have both on my farm.

Dara
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tailflagger
post Mar 16 2005, 01:45 AM
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Hi again,

I meant what CathGuest wrote: the old fashioned, big bodied mares.

I don't own any horses at the moment, I am just working and living at a farm while I finish up this year of school but I am trying to learn as much as possible about the SE, breeding, and all aspects of care and training.

Maybe it would be easier to give an example, there is a mare here who is a Sar Ibn Moniet daughter and she is built like a tank. She is tall and has a lot of substance. Nice head, not extreme by todays standards but very Arabian. She is not the type of mare you would see in the show ring except in perhaps lead line or walk trot classes with a small child. I see many of these types out there sitting around at various farms and being sold quite cheaply because they do not fit into the current "fad".

I personally like this type of horse. I feel as though I can ride all day and in rough terrain and be just fine and so will she.

However, at some point in time I would like to breed a mare or two and do some showing with my own horses. At the moment I have several here to show so I don't need to go on a spending spree but you know how it is! biggrin.gif

Is it worth the risk from a breeding standpoint to use these older lines to be the foundation for a breeding and showing program or are they too far gone from what we have in todays show ring and breeding shed?

I think to answer my own question, that for the breeding aspect producing well conformed using offspring I would be OK but I would like to be able to do both. Can this be done? I am sure many of the people on this forum have some of these older horses in their pastures.

Anyones thoughts?

Jessi
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Guest_Guest_*
post Mar 16 2005, 07:24 AM
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Horses bred today are just as good as they were in the 80's . The notion that we had better horses then is incorrect. More extreme heads are seen today but what is wrong with that. Extreme heads do not mean less of a horse. Whenever people start talking about pretty heads it seems to touch a nerve. why? I have seen lovely horses by all standards with extreme heads with nice square bodies and superb athletic ability. Breeding arabians is an art and will contiue to be so for generations to come. Having an athletic , performance horse with no regard to type is wrong. Breeding for a pretty head only is also undesirable but like it or not this the hallmark of the breed. the challenge is to maintain a balance. Breeding for the show ring is a pitfall that some people fall into. Shows produce champions but they do not necessarily produce exceptional stallions or broodmares. This does not mean that you cannot produce both in one. The trick is to look ahead of the first generation and to ultimately be able to fix the desirable traits whether extreme heads well set necks and square deep girthed athletic individuals. It is known that you cannot fix all traits at one go. Patience is key. You can definitely produce from a plain mare with a good pedigree some fine individuals that will breed on . Breeding on is the challenge. One offs are just a luck of the draw. It is unfortunate that people flock after show champions. Some of them deserve such attention but the way the shows are designed today the champions are not guaranteed to be the best producers. I wish that one day the industry would wisen up and pay more attention to the choice of Stallion Champions in particular. I say that because the impact of stallions is profound owing to the number of mares served unlike the mares who's impact is limited to one foal a year.. Take the Thoroughbred industry. Stallions are in demand only after they perform on the race track. There is a clear objective when breeding Thoroughbreds and that is speed . The only way to judge the probable heretibility is for the stallion to prove himself on the track. Ofcourse the pedigree needs to support the individual. The challenge in our industry is much bigger. You need to choose a stallion that will pass on his desirable traits be it type athletic ability or conformation . We don't have the luxury of subjective evaluations as in races. It would be nice that in order to be running for a champion stallion , you must qualify in a get of sire competition and some sort of a performance discipline. Those qualifying competitions would be held ahead of the halter championsip maybe months or weeks ahead of time.,and a weight be given to each criteria. Only when such a procedure is applied and you can do the same for mares will this conflict be resolved and the industry would be better served.

This means ofcourse that champion stallions must be 5 years and older. Some of the winning 4 years winning Champion stallions have nothing to show in terms of get and have never been tested in any performance discipline. The performance discipline should not be rigorous . The stallion would be observed under saddle and checked by a veterenarian not a judge for conformation which would include legs..etc. All those evaluations would transalate into grades and weighed in. At the final show , the choice would be comparative with no marks given for legs and conformation or movement ( it would have been tested earlier) . The judges would be choosing the typiest individual period. Some of the judges today are not qualified to judge legs or conformation. Ofcourse it would be a bonus if the horses are not streched when shown. The idea is to seperate the subjective from the objective. The subjective would be addresses in the qualifying competitions and the objective would come out in the Championships. What do you think?
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Paul Huzevka
post Mar 16 2005, 03:26 PM
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Dear Guest,

I think that you are right on. I also agree with you on the stalion testing.
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