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> For Tkr9 - Regarding Large Hind Quarters!
Sharabia
post Aug 10 2005, 02:42 PM
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Hi all, and Tkr9!

The other day I read a valid post of yours asking where the large hind quarters in SE's have gone. Since then, I have been searching like a mad woman for a photo of a stallion that was bred by long time SE breeder, Lillian Mantei in Saskatchewan, Canada, and owned by Gwen Shaw, El Karta Arabians, of British Columbia. Gwen is a small breeder...

Until that photo turns up (and it is driving me mad!) of that stallion who has great body substance, I thought I would post a picture of a mare I just made a deal on, also owned by Gwen. I drooled over this mare since the day I saw her, and Gwen contacted me last week to see if I was still interested - and WAS I! (Great legs on this mare to boot!) She is also well started under saddle and has a great mind. Given, she has her faults, like all horses do, but overall, she looks like she could work all day under saddle and be content and happy, while remaining sound. Also, keep in mind this is a casual photo of her.

MY POINT - DON'T DISPAIR, THEY ARE STILL OUT THERE! There are SE breeders who are continuing to seek and breed such horses, perhaps only hidden ph34r.gif amongst the large breeders, quietly going about their breeding business...

With Friendship, smile.gif
Sheila Bautz
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Mike
post Aug 10 2005, 02:52 PM
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Nice to know that there are others who worry about such things! tongue.gif

Mike

PS The pic is just a snap, but you get the idea! laugh.gif
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Sharabia
post Aug 10 2005, 03:19 PM
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Hi Mike!

Pretty good "snap!" Who is this horse?

Yes, it is nice when breeders "worry" about such things, especially future ones! I think appreciating each type of SE is important, JMHO.

Any one else have other photo's out there that testify to the large hind quarter that is still apparent in our breed?

Sheila
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Guest_guestGuest_*
post Aug 10 2005, 05:04 PM
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Personally I love a big strong round rear end. I hear that they can be useful in horses also.
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Mike
post Aug 10 2005, 08:07 PM
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Hi Sheila,

The horse is Classic-Maidan. Below is a pic that I took last year of a daughter of his.


Good look with the mare! She's lovely! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif wub.gif

Mike
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tkr9
post Aug 11 2005, 10:19 PM
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Great to know they're still being bred somewhere out there. I dunno, it just seems like they have more power in the engines, as it were, and surely adds strenth to the overall back. I know a level croup is supposed to be desirable in the show ring and breed standard, but I'm sure that doesn't mean a flat, straight back.

Still I think the most solid architecture I've ever seen in an arabian - the gorgeous Kaszmir...
You only have to look at him to know he must have been the athlete and racehorse he was.

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Sharabia
post Aug 12 2005, 01:16 AM
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My friend Bachir said on another thread:

"By the way I just saw your new Mare that you just purchased, on another thread,I DO LIKE HER..she has a very strong hinds and seem well balanced back and neck..She remind me a bit of my Don Diablo,the dancing horse ..I will predict from the looks only that this beauty could be excellent over fences..This is just an opinion ..Can you tell me more about her ...Age/temperament/behavior /pedigree etc...
How Are you doing with your Babies?...are they coming along?
I do miss you and miss Curtis and all our conversation about Horses....
Regards my friend
Al Moussami -Bachir "

When we were at the EE and spent some time talking with Bachir, we had the privilege of viewing some video's he had along. One was his beautiful horse he trained, as mentioned in the above quote. We saw how he started this horse and then saw footage of when his Diablo had more advanced training. Bachir's horse was well conformed to begin with, having wonderful attributes, and after Bachir trained and rode him, his horse's look refined even more into that of the horses of the past! His muscling was phenomenal, and portrayed the look you see in old paintings and art work.

Bachir also had footage of the dancing horses in Egypt on the streets. Take a guess what they looked like? Powerful bodies that would put some QH's to shame! (No offense against QH's, we own a few!)

I also know Hansi has said that the reason many horses of decades - and centuries - past have such wonderful hind quarters is because they were rode in a discipline. I believe this to be very true, given that you choose horses that are well bred and confirmationally sound also.

The mare I posted the picture of illustrates her very natural, strong hind quarter that promises a great amount of potential with physical work. It is like any person, as the current owner of the mare I posted pointed out, which she basically said, "Sheila, if we did sit ups, we would transform physically too!". Just like body builders, joggers, arobics, etc., defining the muscling only makes common sense that the best attributes of a horse (or person as the case may be) will begin to manifest. Now, a person also has to take into account that not all can be "super models", as the bone structure and muscle potential does need to be there. AND this, I would love to learn more about through "book smarts", and talking with people who have bred for decades or researched extensively, as we have both here on this forum.

However, my point is, to find a horse in the "rough", and then visualize it's physical potential, is part of a breeder's responsibility, IMHO.

Personally, I appreciate all builds of our wonderful breed. Not every horse can be a jumper, or excel at endurance, or excel at Working Cow, etc. BUT, that is what makes our breed so unique, that there are different builds or horses with different potentials without having to say, own a different breeds for a different discipline.

Tkr9, I agree that they need this "power" in their engines, no matter what their discipline. And, every horse, like people, will have that to varying degrees. Unfortunately, the general belief has become that SE's are not "working" horses, and therefore, just pretty to look at. (Imagine how frustrating this would be for, let's say, a gorgeous woman who is not valued for her brains but instead, just her beauty!) That is definitely not what our breed is about! It is sad when a person feels a sense of accomplishment through people from other breeds giving a "shocking" observation. For instance, a wonderful lady who works in a cattle feed lot and rides QH's all day, finally got curious enough to visit our farm here last Wednesday. When she saw one of our stallions, she said with a sense of shock in her voice, "NOW that is an Arabian that LOOKS like he can work!" I was pleased with her comment, yet felt a bit sad, if you know what I mean?

Of course, these are just my humble observations and opinions. I am waiting to hear all of yours!
Sheila
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Sharabia
post Aug 12 2005, 01:30 AM
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Hi Bachir,

This mare I posted the picture of, Cally, has a wonderful temperment! I have purchased two other mares from this same small breeder in the past, and one of those mares, Cameo, is going to be my young son's mount. (Cameo is the one that is soooo attracted to small children, the kind of horse who's eyes tell you she will take care of them. Very docile. Now Cameo is not as impressive as Cally physically, but none the less, she is held in high esteem with me because I can trust her with my son.)

Gwen, the lady who I made the deal with on this horse, told me that she went riding on Cally, along with a friend and her horse. A strange barking dog approached them, but was not biting at them, and Cally never skipped a beat, never bolted or shied, and just stayed true to her rider while keeping her "mind". This is the same attribute that Cameo has, as I witnessed while purchasing her three large dogs wrestling beneath Cameo's belly LITERALLY, and Cameo never moved.

I have noted that these bloodlines, originally coming from Lillian Mantei's breeding program in Saskatchewan, show this temperment consistently. One stallion I bred here, behaves like a gelding and is very good natured in the same way.

With Friendship,
Sheila
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AL MOUSSAMI
post Aug 12 2005, 02:50 PM
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biggrin.gif biggrin.gif Dear Sheila
Quote:"To find a Horse in the "ROUGH"and then visualize it's phisical potential"End of quote..
This statement is the secret of purchasing /choosing or keeping horses..A seasonned horseman when choosing a horse don't make his decision on what he sees but on the potential that is hidden from him ...
When I looked at Calli's photo I realised in my mind how she would look after few years of proper education ..When I purchased my horse "DON DIABLO""his condition at three was so pitiful that many of my horse friends thought that I lost my touch in choosing horses..These are the same friends who tried to purchase D.Diablo from me at a very tempting price when they witnessed him winning the open jumper class in 1988. for the region 16 in Syracuse NY......
Sheila ,congratulation on your purchase ,always remember that "TEMPERAMENT "is bred and not taught ..And you have it in CALLI...
For those who say that SE are only halter horses ,something to look at ,I regret to tell them that their understanding of owning a Beautiful Arabian is completly lost ...
What do we tell a Bedouin who rides his Siglawiyah mare with pride, 100 miles to be bred to a stallion of his choosing,that you are treating your mare poorly????
We rode our arabians hard in the desert,in temperature unberable to the common persons,we hunted on our Arabians for days,we raced our Arabians on fridays just for the bragging rights ,we did all this because we loved our horses to a point that they are our daily companions,and our soul..OH!! by the way we also were very proud to show them standing to any guest who blessed our home with a visit.....
Maybe now I can feel better about all my accomplishement with my late Arabian "DON DIABLO"
Al Moussami-Bachir
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greenwoodarabs
post Aug 13 2005, 02:42 AM
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I have to agree...I have a 2 yr old with a GREAT hind end...no it is not table top flat-but rounded and under her appropriately...looks a lot like your picture post...I will try to post if I can figure the darned thing out)...She is out of a Simeon Shai daughter, by a Thee desperado son..
but can turn on a dime, is catlike and graceful in her movements and pretty also..
I have been told that not having a table top backend is a terrible fault...but I am not sure exactly WHY that is..(excuse my ignorance-as when I set her up in a halter pose, she 'looks' flat then...?)
anyway, maybe my years with AQHA's has me colored-but I really like those "big Butts"..lol biggrin.gif
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greenwoodarabs
post Aug 13 2005, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE (guestGuest @ Aug 10 2005, 06:04 PM)
Personally I love a big strong round rear end. I hear that they can be useful in horses also.

laugh.gif Yeah, as long as the rest of the package matches...( I also like the ones with the fat wallets attached tongue.gif )
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Sharabia
post Aug 13 2005, 03:39 AM
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Hi All!

Bachir, you said, "What do we tell a Bedouin who rides his Siglawiyah mare with pride, 100 miles to be bred to a stallion of his choosing,that you are treating your mare poorly????
We rode our arabians hard in the desert,in temperature unberable to the common persons,we hunted on our Arabians for days,we raced our Arabians on fridays just for the bragging rights ,we did all this because we loved our horses to a point that they are our daily companions,and our soul..OH!! by the way we also were very proud to show them standing to any guest who blessed our home with a visit....." End Quote.

I too feel that passion, Bachir, even though I have not had the honor of experiencing all you have. You should be very proud of your accomplishments, not only with Diablo, but also as a true horseman and author. We have a great respect and admiration for you...

Greenwood Arabs, I also agree with you. Many times I scratch my head and can't understand the table top thing either, yet I do have a stallion here who also appears to go "flat" when in a halter stance. Actually, I think those horses who have a topline that always is "flat", run into many physical problems later. Maybe someone could elaborate here on this? I also think it does make a difference if you are coming from a "riding" background, or have owned "working horses" such as you did before getting into Arabians. It seems that often times a person who does ride/train will select horses differently than others.

And please understand that I am not criticizing or snubbing another person's choice or taste in SE's. Some would think I am off my rocker, and won't appreciate my horses, which is their perrogative. However, I do strongly feel and believe in breeding horses that are physically and mentally sound, and who would make me proud should I ever have to cross a desert with them, or race them on Friday's just for fun! And who fill me with pride when showing them to our visitors. smile.gif Anyways...

Greenwood, I would love to see that photo you are trying to post! Bachir, do you have one of Diablo? Any others?

Oh, and guest, you naughty, naughty person! ohmy.gif wink.gif You made me laugh too! laugh.gif

Mike, thanks for the info! Any more examples?

Sincerely,
Sheila Bautz
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Sharabia
post Aug 13 2005, 03:54 AM
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Here is another example of a mare who gained a lot of respect - Egyptian Belle, also bred by Bill and Lillian Mantei at Diamond M. This mares lines can still be found in our part of the world, including in my grey stallion...
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greenwoodarabs
post Aug 14 2005, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (Sharabia @ Aug 13 2005, 04:39 AM)
Greenwood Arabs, I also agree with you.  Many times I scratch my head and can't understand the table top thing either, yet I do have a stallion here who also appears to go "flat" when in a halter stance.  Actually, I think those horses who have a topline  that always is "flat", run into many physical problems later.  Maybe someone could elaborate here on this?  I also think it does make a difference if you are coming from a "riding" background, or have owned "working horses" such as you did before getting into Arabians.  It seems that often times a person who does ride/train will select horses differently than others.
Greenwood, I would love to see that photo you are trying to post!  Bachir, do you have one of Diablo?  Any others?

Oh, and guest, you naughty, naughty person!  ohmy.gif wink.gif  You made me laugh too!  laugh.gif

Mike, thanks for the info!  Any more examples?

Sincerely,
Sheila Bautz

Sheila-
Attached is 2 yr old (wasn't quite 2 in these pictures) sh Amira Zulieka (ls THEE BAHIM X Shai Gania)
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Shemesh
post Aug 14 2005, 12:44 AM
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Do you think this is a good hindquarter?
Rod
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