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arabian horse lover
Dear friends

I am wondering if any of you had seen Gharib in real, was he a stallion brought to marbach only to solve pigment problems, or was he a good choice, did he produce nice offspring, what are his ups and downs that he passed to his progney, if any of you have ideas or opinions about this stallion kindly write back, i am interested to know why exactly this horse was chosen from the EAO to be a cheif sire in marbach and to consider that that time they had nice mares so was it a good cross in blood lines or what,i need to hear some opinions or if any have ever saw this horse in flesh
good day
GUESTGuest
Anter sired Gharib (x Souhair), the black stallion used at the German State Stud Marbach. While rather maligned, not being as typey as his gorgeous stable mate Hadban Enzahi, Gharib blood pops up all over the place as a good influence for correct, well balanced, good necked horses with excellent temperaments. For example he is great grandsire of the elegant bay The Minstril (Ruminaja Ali x Bahila). Gharib’s reputation may be on the up again as paternal grandsire of the 1998 World Champion Stallion Hadidi (Norus by Gharib x Hebet Allah), an impressive horse who also sems to be a sire of quality.
GUESTGuest
laugh.gif
Dennis
Gharib came to Marbach by chance not exactly by choice. They were in need of a successor of Hadban Enzahi (Nazeer x Kamla) and Dr. Georg Wenzler who was the head of Marbach at the time travelled again to Egypt to serach for the perfect match. Hadban Enzahi though ultra typey and a progenitor of his own type had sired only greys and they tended to have some pink spots on their faces like Hadban himself. They also had a bot short necks (in general) and could moved better with a more free shoulder. So tthis wa sthe catalogue of criteria for the new stallion: He needed to have good pigmentation, an excellent shoulder and long neck and excellent movement and should provide an outcross pedigree because Marbach also had used Hadban Enazahi's paternal brother Ghazal (Nazeer x Bukra).
The Egyptian government had agreed to sell Marbach a stallion of their choice but the problem was that Dr. Georg Wenzler while in Germany had heard of stallion that would fit and came to Egypt to see him: it was the grey ultra refined and classic built stallion Fol Gamil by Hamdan). In El Zahraa he tried to find him and learned that he wasn't owned by the government but by a private farm, the Hamdan Stables. The officials at El Zahraa were a bit disappointed that DR. Wenzler didn't want to have one of THEIR stallions for Marbach but it was arranged that Fol Gamil came to Cairo and Dr. Wenzler carefully evaluated him. He was smitten by him. This was the stallion he had envisioned when he have heard about his pedigree back in Germany. Everything he had hoped for. Everything and more. Movement, type, the long neck, the elegant silhouette, the proud carriage, the tail flipped over the back. Here he was the future head sire of Marbach and official successor of Hadban Enzahi. The owners of Hamdan Stables kindly agree to let their stallion go. Dr. Wenzler was on clouds. Then it happened: Fol Gamil laid down in his paddock and Dr. Wenzler saw his belly - pink spots all over... He was devastated becaus ehe knew he couldn't come back to Germany with a GREY stallion that had pigmentation problems... What should he do?

He went back to El Zahraa and they paraded all the stallions in front of him. Some Americans were there as well and carefully observed Dr. Wenzler and his entourage. Which stallion would he pick? The officials at the EAO had agreed to give him teh stallion he would choose. Though Marbach had limited funds the officials in Egypt never had forgotten that the Germans from Marbach once were one of the first foreign breedrs that were come to El Zahraa to buy horses after WWII. Dr. Wenzler chose the young black Anter son Gharib for obvious reasons: He was elegant, very stretchy, had scope enough, a long, slender neck, marvellous trot and excellent gallop, was a good jumper as a bonus and the icing of the cake was his black colour.
Judith Forbis wanted to bring Gharib to America by the way. She had tried to buy him for the late Mr. Kline but Dr. Wenzler finally got him. Gharib wasn't a "classic" like Fol Gamil and it was said that when the first people saw him at Marbach they could hardly believe that this one should be Hadban Enzahi's successor. Later many of those who didn't like him in the first place came to admire him for what he did at the Marbach broodmare band. He sired foals with lots of movement, scope and athletic ability and many of his sons were successful at the German performance tests. He will be best remembered for his flying movement.

Betty Finke who is posting here under "Rodania" wrote some wonderful articles about Gharib in English as well. Perhaps she can provide you further information. The video of Gharib on the video site gives you a very good impression of his outer apperance and movement.

Please ignore my typing errors I am in a hurry. Sorry for that.
Guest
QUOTE (Dennis @ Sep 2 2005, 08:51 AM)
Gharib came to Marbach by chance not exactly by choice. They were in need of a successor of Hadban Enzahi (Nazeer x Kamla) and Dr. Georg Wenzler who was the head of Marbach at the time travelled again to Egypt to serach for the perfect match. Hadban Enzahi though ultra typey and a progenitor of his own type had sired only greys and they tended to have some pink spots on their faces like Hadban himself. They also had a bot short necks (in general) and could moved better with a more free shoulder. So tthis wa sthe catalogue of criteria for the new stallion: He needed to have good pigmentation, an excellent shoulder and long neck and excellent movement and should provide an outcross pedigree because Marbach also had used Hadban Enazahi's paternal brother Ghazal (Nazeer x Bukra).
The Egyptian government had agreed to sell Marbach a stallion of their choice but the problem was that Dr. Georg Wenzler while in Germany  had heard of stallion that would fit and came to Egypt to see him: it was the grey ultra refined and classic built stallion Fol Gamil by Hamdan). In El Zahraa he tried to find him and learned that he wasn't owned by the government but by a private farm, the Hamdan Stables. The officials at El Zahraa were a bit disappointed that DR. Wenzler didn't want to have one of THEIR stallions for Marbach but it was arranged that Fol Gamil came to Cairo and Dr. Wenzler carefully evaluated him. He was smitten by him. This was the stallion he had envisioned when he have heard about his pedigree back in Germany. Everything he had hoped for. Everything and more. Movement, type, the long neck, the elegant silhouette, the proud carriage, the tail flipped over the back. Here he was the future head sire of Marbach and official successor of Hadban Enzahi. The owners of Hamdan Stables kindly agree to let their stallion go. Dr. Wenzler was on clouds. Then it happened: Fol Gamil laid down in his paddock and Dr. Wenzler saw his belly  - pink spots all over... He was devastated becaus ehe knew he couldn't come back to Germany with a GREY stallion that  had pigmentation problems... What should he do?

He went back to El Zahraa and they paraded all the stallions in front of him. Some Americans were there as well and carefully observed Dr. Wenzler and his entourage. Which stallion would he pick? The officials at the EAO had agreed to give him teh stallion he would choose. Though Marbach had limited funds the officials in Egypt never had forgotten that the Germans from Marbach once were one of the first foreign breedrs that were come to El Zahraa to buy horses after WWII. Dr. Wenzler chose the young black Anter son Gharib for obvious reasons: He was elegant, very stretchy, had scope enough, a long, slender neck, marvellous trot and excellent gallop, was a good jumper as a bonus and the icing of the cake was his black colour.
Judith Forbis wanted to bring Gharib to America by the way. She had tried to buy him for the late Mr. Kline but Dr. Wenzler finally got him. Gharib wasn't a "classic" like Fol Gamil and it was said that when the first people saw him at Marbach they could hardly believe that this one should be Hadban Enzahi's successor. Later many of those who didn't like him in the first place came to admire him for what he did at the Marbach broodmare band. He sired foals with lots of movement, scope and athletic ability and many of his sons were successful at the German performance tests. He will be best remembered for his flying movement.

Betty Finke who is posting here under "Rodania" wrote some wonderful articles about Gharib in English as well. Perhaps she can provide you further information. The video of Gharib on the video site gives you a very good impression of his outer apperance and movement.

Please ignore my typing errors I am in a hurry. Sorry for that.

Interesting, what became of this Fol Gamil? Never heard of him before.
cate
Dennis
What a wonderful piece you have written about Gharib, and for a novice like me just superb!. It does so help when experienced breeders write about these wonderful horses and give their good and bad points! Knowing what different lines/horses throw is so so helpful to the novice. cool.gif

Thank you, Dennis smile.gif
arabian horse lover
thanks for your info, do any body have photos to gharib or the links to Betty Finke articles who is posting here under "Rodania
AlineS
QUOTE (arabian horse lover @ Sep 2 2005, 01:02 PM)
thanks for your info, do any body have photos to gharib or the links to Betty Finke  articles who is posting here under "Rodania

Here are a few from my archive:


photo: not known


photo: Sally Ann Thompson


photo: not known


photo: E. Briegel
HLM
Good morning everybody

What is written here about Gharib I also encountered. When I saw him in 1973 shortly before his export to Marbach, I was very impressed. He jumped in deep sand over 1,50 meter, leaving at least 16 inches space between his belly and the jump. Although he did not have the type now looked for, he did look very much like a Desertbred Arabian, and just seeing him moving was the eyes delight.
Nobody could mistake him for other than an Arabian Horse.
Apparently he was used over various warmbloods in Germany/Europe with success. We must not forget that "Anter" is the progenator of oustanding athletic and mentally balanced offspring. I saw Antar
in Egypt numerous times and can not forget his superb ,powerfull rearend, tremendous shoulders/reach, and so very balanced with excellent legs, hoofs. Combined with Nazeer, Sameh,Mashhour, Hamdan truly some super SES were produced, which not only were excellent horses but in most cases very beautiful as well.

through such crosses came the unforgetable Dalul x Dawlat,
Khofo++ x Nabilahh, Hekmat x Samia,Ansata Bint Elwya x Elwya, Eman x Abla, Ibn antar x Bint Mona, Wahag x Kamar, Somaia x Abla, Kahramana x Kamar, Serenity Shahra x Sharzada, Serenity Sagda x Samia,Hayat x Tanta, 13 Bint Nazeera x Nazeera, Ashour x Ayda, Serag x Bint Om El Saad,Saleema x Basima, Cleopatra x Ahlam II,
all of which continued to produce well.

When a aparticular line consistently produces athletic abilities and beauty, no matter how old, one should pay careful attention
trying to ascertain some of the best blood still available in my opinion.

Have a grand day
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
LoLoXLC
Here are two other pics for you:



guestGuest
it is agreed that gharib produced correct legs athele horse etc, but there was a lack of refinment and prettiness, i know that ansata had a very pretty mare out of gharib from marbach but she didnot produce anything special, do you think that there are special lines to be crossed with gharib blood to give a preety yet a strong horse, that could be a nice equation, so share your ideas on best lines to cross with gharib line
bon souir smile.gif
Dr Daniel Wigger
QUOTE (guestGuest @ Sep 2 2005, 04:58 PM)
i know that ansata had a very pretty mare out of gharib from marbach but she didnot produce anything special

... not quite correct.

This mare was Nadima (Gharib x Nabya by Hadban Enzahi out of Nadja). She produced two pretty daughters, Il Naheefa by Ruminaja Ali, a syndicated high-selling champion mare, and Alajneha Nahme by Anaza El Farid, who both gave birth to beautiful offspring. For example: Il Nasek (Imp. Madheen x Il Naheefa) or Ansata Haisam (Ansata Hejazi x Alajneha Nahme), who pass(ed) on their grand-dams heritage in Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Egypt and Qatar. Ansata owned Nadimas daughter Il Nadheena (by Imp. Madheen) for some time, who was reported to me as being one of the most beautiful mares at Ansata until her death two (?) years ago. What is true is, that - unfortunately - Ansata didn't succeed to breed a foal from both of them, Nadima and Il Nadheena.
HLM
Dear Dr Wigger

I am so delighted to hear you say all this. If one knows that their horse/horses lack athletic abilities, then one should utilize a stallion which an improve. When one needs a bit more beauty, that is easier corrected and should be utilized, but to never take away from the athletic abilities.

And we all know, we all can have both, beauty and athletics.

Hansi biggrin.gif
guestGuest
QUOTE (Dr Daniel Wigger @ Sep 2 2005, 05:18 PM)
QUOTE (guestGuest @ Sep 2 2005, 04:58 PM)
i know that ansata had a very pretty mare out of gharib from marbach but she didnot produce anything special

... not quite correct.

This mare was Nadima (Gharib x Nabya by Hadban Enzahi out of Nadja). She produced two pretty daughters, Il Naheefa by Ruminaja Ali, a syndicated high-selling champion mare, and Alajneha Nahme by Anaza El Farid, who both gave birth to beautiful offspring. For example: Il Nasek (Imp. Madheen x Il Naheefa) or Ansata Haisam (Ansata Hejazi x Alajneha Nahme), who pass(ed) on their grand-dams heritage in Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Egypt and Qatar. Ansata owned Nadimas daughter Il Nadheena (by Imp. Madheen) for some time, who was reported to me as being one of the most beautiful mares at Ansata until her death two (?) years ago. What is true is, that - unfortunately - Ansata didn't succeed to breed a foal from both of them, Nadima and Il Nadheena.

thanks for your clearing, but in ypour point of view which of the daughters was prettier and gave athe ruminaja ali or anaz al farid, any pictures for any of your mentioned mares
Oliver
Just a thought: More pretty doesn't necessarily mean better... wink.gif
GlenBruadair Arabians
Was very interested to see this thread, as have been keen to research this line a little more myself. My colt has a line to Gharib through Samanna not far back. I had a look at the video of him on this site, and the posted pictures were great to see. I love seeing the ancestors within the pedigrees of my horses. As for the long necks, I'll try to post a picture of my boy. It is badly out of focus, but it gives you an indication of his length of rein. I'll also go through my folders to see if there are any other shots that show the rest of him. He's conformation is truly that of a performance horse - I can't wait to start him under saddle, an open dressage career is planned!
GlenBruadair Arabians
Wow, that came out a bit big!! will try to reduce the size of any further pics!!
HLM
Dear Jenni

thanks for the photo. Neck looks nice. the photos posted here of gharib do not do him justice. Horses, as people, are not always photogenic. He was eight, when I saw him last, and cant forget his beautiful shiny coat, the expression in his face and the fire in gentlenss in his eyes. He walked with grat pride, and definitely represented the desertbred arbaians well.

May by those who also saw him in this younger age could give their comments. His female tail line was to have a more straighter face,and his grand dam "Salwa" was black, who was also the grand dam of our SF Ibn Nazeer. As also he had a superb rearend, I feel that mixed with Antar etc, gives a double genetic shot.

And at the end, each one should breed for what they like.

Have a grand dy
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Guest
Jenni

I saw your colt when I visited Eagleridge, not long before you bought him, I could not get over his amazingly beautiful face and his long snaky neck, yet short strong back, you are right he will be a super athlete, when are you going to show him in NSW again will love to see how he is maturing.

I think he has inherited a lot from his famous great grand father Gharib, particularly the athleticism, good luck with you rfitire with this beautoful boy.

Tanja
Guest
Do you also have a headshot of him?
GlenBruadair Arabians
Yes, HLM, it can be very difficult trying to get shots of horses that do them justice, I must have taken around 100 just to get 1 or 2 O.K. ones - I'm not good on either end of the camera!! Samanna is my boys paternal granddam, so gharib isn't far back at all. I also got to see both dam and maternal granddam recently, and they too have beautiful necks, maybe not quite as long, but a lovely shape and coming out of the shoulder nicely.

Guest, as for him being shown in NSW - not quite sure at this stage. He will probably venture out soon here in Vic, but he is VERY different to everything else down here, I'm not sure people know quite what to make of him! I know he will make an awesome saddle horse, and that is why I bought him, as a saddle horse himself and sire of saddle horses. Eagerly awaiting his first foal in December out of a truly beautiful crabbet/egyptian mare.

A couple more photos for you taken recently.....
GlenBruadair Arabians
Standing relaxed looking at his girls. Shows his lovely strong hindquarter - being only a young 3, he still has quite a bit of maturing yet to go, I believe he will only get better (and bigger - he is already up around 16hh!)
GlenBruadair Arabians
Last one....
Timbuk2
Jenni

I have never seen this horse in the flesh, would love to one day, I seem to remember reading somewhere on this forum people having a go at this colts hindquarter, all I can say is they must be blind or crazy or jeolous one of the above..........

WHAT A BACKEND..........!!!!! he is awesome, this is what I love about Om el Shareikh as a sire, not only does he put a beautiful face on his get he also puts the best hindquarters on I have ever seen in the Arabian world, I am sure this must come through Samanna and from Gharib.

Good luck with this fantastic colt
Tim biggrin.gif
was
QUOTE (guestGuest @ Sep 2 2005, 04:58 PM)
it is agreed that gharib produced correct legs athele horse etc, but there was a lack of refinment and prettiness, i know that ansata had a very pretty mare out of gharib from marbach but she didnot produce anything special, do you think that there are special lines to be crossed with gharib blood to give a preety yet a strong horse, that could be a nice equation, so share your ideas on best lines to cross with gharib line
bon souir smile.gif

Dear Guestguest

I was privaleged to have seen Gharib on several occasions, and whilst he did not have an exotic head he certainly did not lack refinement. He was a very dry desert horse that dipslayed true desert type, just not exotic in the modern sence of the word.
GlenBruadair Arabians
Tim, thanks for the support - all I can say about the unfavourable comments is that they came from someone who saw him when he was a young and very gangly 2 yr old who needed time to catch up to himself! Wait until this horse gets going under saddle, and the resulting muscling. He has the kind of conformation and strong back end that when he moves, he really sits on his hocks and powers from behind.

Tell you what will be interesting - the results of mating him to his half sister Coco Chanel, for a double Om El Shareikh baby! Can't wait to see this, but pedigree aside, the colt has everything I was looking for in a stallion to breed Chanel to. The pedigree is quite the bonus!

Here is Chanel, who has the same line to Gharib. She was Reserve National Champion Mare (AOTH) in 2004 and last season was her first under saddle - Supreme ridden purebred at her first outing, 4 Top 10's at Nationals, including 3rd in Novice and Elementary dressage - only the 3rd time ever competing in dressage. A truly wonderful little mare.
GlenBruadair Arabians
Another of Chanel..., she is now a lovely 6 yr old and looks the best she ever has. She will continue to compete this season at a few shows under saddle, and maybe even another bit of halter later on. She has certainly matured beautifully.
Guest
Hello Jenni

I like the look of this black colt very much, what is his pedigree? He looks to have a very strong body, I am a Gharib fan, so am always interested in the legacy he has left behind, think you are wise to start a saddle career for this young horse. Best of luck.
GlenBruadair Arabians
Hi Guest, both the colt and my mare are sired by Om El Shareikh who is out of Samanna, who is in turn by Gharib. The colts dam is Eagleridge Rain Dancer (by river oak tabu out of river oak dimity, who of course was out of the very beautiful dimity)

My mare has a line to Al Karim Sirhalima through her dam, so I'm hoping for a black foal!, but in any event I think it will be lovely. She is a super little saddle horse, and I believe the colt will be as well, if not better. He is probably the most althletic horse I have ever seen, already incredibly balanced. I am hoping to start him under saddle at the end of this season. I find him a very hard horse to fault conformationally, and he has a wonderful temperament. He will be trained along dressage lines with a view to competing in open dressage. Being 16hh, & the movement he has, I reckon he will be able to mix it with the thoroughbreds and Warmbloods!! Whilst he is very strong in the body, with excellent bone, as well as being so tall, he is still beautifully refined and very pretty.

Just for your interest, as well as some purebreds, he is being bred to a warmblood this season who produces stunning foals maturing over 16hh. Will be very interested to see the results of this.

Cheers
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