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Guest
I would like information on Al Adeed Al Shaqab, Gazel, and Marwan. Were these horses bred and born in American then exported to Qatar? Or were any bred in Qatar then leased to America. And was Gazal leased to Poland as so many of his beautiful foals are there.

Forgive my ignorance, but I understand Al Shaqab is owned by the Emir of Qatar. Is this title equivalant to say, the king of Arabia? Again, forgive my ignorance. I just wanted to get more information as I visited Al Shaqab's web page and everything is just beautiful! Horses, surroundings, everything.
Connyi
Al Aadeed and Marwan were bred in Qatar and are currently on lease to Michael Byatt as is Gazal. I think Gazal was bred by Michael Byatt and came to Qatar in utero. He was on lease to Poland in 2002 and 2003.
Guest
Al Adeed, Gazal and Marwan are bred and born in Qatar. Gazal was leased two years to poland and the emir of Qatar is the ruler but not the king of arabia. Qatar is an own state.
Guest
thank you for the info, such beautiful horses. I wonder if Michael ever regretted selling the dam of Gazal.
Guest
QUOTE (Guest @ Nov 6 2005, 03:35 PM)
the emir of Qatar is the ruler but not the king of arabia. Qatar is an own state.

I believe I said is the title equivalent to ...
majestik1
QUOTE (Connyi @ Nov 6 2005, 03:34 PM)
Al Aadeed and Marwan were bred in Qatar and are currently on lease to Michael Byatt as is Gazal. I think Gazal was bred by Michael Byatt and came to Qatar in utero. He was on lease to Poland in 2002 and 2003.

gazal was bred by michael in partnership with the Haskins who bought out the 113 i think or there abouts horses in Gucci herd when they were in distress you can email Michael or look at his website as well as Al Shaqab stud website i'm sure they'll be able to let you know more info. Just be patient cause Michael is a very busy man. he may not get back to you right away......Kajora was owned by the Haskins when they bred her to Farid also as hard as it may have been they rescued over 100 horses and when someone of the stature of the sheikh shows interest in your horses you do think about taking the offer Hope that helps abit BARB
majestik1
QUOTE (Guest @ Nov 6 2005, 03:35 PM)
Al Adeed, Gazal and Marwan are bred and born in Qatar. Gazal was leased two years to poland and the emir of Qatar is the ruler but not the king of arabia. Qatar is an own state.

gazal was bred in US and exported in eutero Conny is right aladeed and marwan were bred in qartar all 3 were born in qatar. emir is a ruler so yes he would be the ruler of qatar although i've always heard him referred to as Sheikh not Emir. BARB
Guest
Oh my gosh, I didn't realize these horses came about as a result of the Gucci herd. Here they were only doing a good thing by rescuing them and look at the happy result! Can you tell more about the rescue? I have been away from the Arabian horse scene for a while.
majestik1
QUOTE (Guest @ Nov 6 2005, 03:22 PM)
I would like information on Al Adeed Al Shaqab, Gazel, and Marwan.  Were these horses bred and born in American then exported to Qatar?  Or were any bred in Qatar then leased to America.  And was Gazal leased to Poland as so many of his beautiful foals are there.

Forgive my ignorance, but I understand Al Shaqab is owned by the Emir of Qatar.  Is this title equivalant to say, the king of Arabia?  Again, forgive my ignorance.  I just wanted to get more information as I visited Al Shaqab's web page and everything is just beautiful!  Horses, surroundings, everything.

al adeed is by ansata halim shah and out of sundar alisiyyah who is a ruminaja ali daughter
he's a world champion although bred in qatar his bloodlines are all american halim shah was purchased by Sheikh's brother owner of al rayyan stud but died soon after importation to qatar he's from the world reknowned stud of judyth forbis al adeed's dam i don't know about .


gazal and marwan are champions on 3 continnets north america qatar and europe gazal was bred in US and exported in eutero his dam kajora was owned by Paolo Gucci before coming back to US she's of predominantly Polish bloodlines marwan was leased by a world reknowned breeder marieta salas of spain while his sire was leased to poland with great results on both sides.

marwan's dam little liza fame is by Fame vf out of kathaza who also was the dam of JK amadeus an outstanding bey shah son making liza and amadeus 3/4 siblings as fame vf is by bey shah . Hope that helps abit more . BARB
Guest
Thank you very much for the info, appreciate it. But I am more interested in the rescue of the Gucci horses. The herd in distress was in the US? How did the Haskins family was it get involved in rescuing them. And how could they possibly deal with more than 100 herd of horses in poor condition. That must have been both a nightmare and a labor of love.
majestik1
QUOTE (Guest @ Nov 6 2005, 05:26 PM)
Thank you very much for the info, appreciate it.  But I am more interested in the rescue of the Gucci horses.  The herd in distress was in the US?  How did the Haskins family was it get involved in rescuing them.  And how could they possibly deal with more than 100 herd of horses in poor condition.  That must have been both a nightmare and a labor of love.

the 113 horses were all bought by the Haskins and then some were resold are you looking for any specific horses tyou mentioned al adeed gazal and marwan so i told you the info you wanted i asked Michael to let me know about the Gucci herd but he was at nationals so i haven't gotten any answer back. they got involved thought michael byatt who has had contact with the gucci's or people who knew of the situation Gucci herd ended up in.. well that's why some horses were resold after they got better

shahteyna is with the straz family

the Sheikh also got some of the gucci horses now not all the Gucci horses were bought bu the HAskins some were sold in europe as well as to middle east BARB


if you look at michael byatt arabians website there's a little blurp under marketing about the rescue of the 113 horses from Gucci herd and how Michae; got the Haskins in volved . there's also already a Gucci horse thread on here as well but it's pretty much same as what we're talking about here.
Guest
Thanks again. I just wanted general info on what happened after the rescue. And now that I am finding out more about the horses, I am beginning to realize that the Gucci herd must have had incredible quality. If you can, I would like to know more about when the ancestors of Gazal and Al Shaqab were first rescued, what condition were they in, what did Michael first think. How did he happen to choose the breeding that would result in Gazal and Al Shaqab, and also Marwan. These horses are just incredible. It is said that not just anyone can breed good horses, and that a great herd can lose when taken over by someone not as capable. Michael certainly has the gift. How on earth does he breed horses as beautiful as that.
majestik1
QUOTE (Guest @ Nov 6 2005, 09:45 PM)
Thanks again.  I just wanted general info on what happened after the rescue.  And now that I am finding out more about the horses, I am beginning to realize that the Gucci herd must have had incredible quality.  If you can, I would like to know more about when the ancestors of Gazal and  Al Shaqab were first rescued, what condition were they in, what did Michael first think.  How did he happen to choose the breeding that would result in Gazal and Al Shaqab, and also Marwan.  These horses are just incredible.  It is said that not just anyone can breed good horses, and that a great herd can lose when taken over by someone not as capable.  Michael certainly has the gift.  How on earth does he breed horses as beautiful as that.

Yes Paolo Gucci knew what he wanted ( the best of everything) always aquired great quality mares like shahteyna and amber satin . for info on the condition they were found in and what Michael thinks you'll have to ask him your self all i can tell you is that they were in very poor condition . email him his email is on his web site like i said don't expect a quick reply because he's a very busy man but i'm sure he can eventually let you know what went on with these horses and why things have happened the way they did i think haskins have a website look for their farm which is called morning star arabians you can email them as well for info on these horses.BARB

Marwan was bred by the al shaqab so i'm not sure how the sheikh came to the decision to breed gazal to liza and as i said it's best that you talk to michael about those things as i wasn't there so i have no clue as to what happened all that i know came from other people and from michael's website
tkr9
QUOTE (Guest @ Nov 6 2005, 09:45 PM)
Michael certainly has the gift.  How on earth does he breed horses as beautiful as that.

Must be Polish, or sold his soul, or something. I noted he handled a good few horses at the egyptian event in Kentucky, where the quality of the horses far outweighed those seen at the Nationals, even though his boy Gazal did very well there. I still can't compare Gazal and Pyro, Gazal is every inch a greater horse.
diane
Al Shaqab Stud
Guest
huh.gif Already in 1993 I've been told a story from a young trainer who had worked at the Gucci farm near to New York.She told me they had to steal food for the herd of broodmares who had no food for days. Cucci ordered them to keep the mares in the pasture so they could feed themselves..... but no grass grew on these pastures. There was some grain stashed in a barn but it was closed and they would lose there jobs not obey his orders. Still they did what they could. How long did this misery go on? (sorry, been away from the Arab- scene too)


completely offtopic;
rolleyes.gif The same year I saw this man on a European show and got a quarrel whit him. Decorating a stand at the EC by mistake I hit a nail right true the eye off a pictured mare in his stand. ohmy.gif He got angry with me, but we laughed about it for days. You should have seen the expression on his face, facing me whith the terrible mistake I've made! laugh.gif tongue.gif biggrin.gif
Guest
I did a search on Gucci and discovered that Monit el nafis (spelling?) was one of those in the Gucci herd. This was the one that sold to Imperial first then to Gucci where he came down with colic. When Imperial heard about it, they brought him for treatment but he had to be put down. The same site also mentioned that neighbors left food outside the gates for the horses hoping someone would be able to feed them. Such a horrible tragedy. But also, Doug Marshall wasn't paid for the horses he sold to Gucci, so he got the law and with sirens blaring, they raided the place to get his horses back.
Guest
I'm searching the net for more information, reading that this all happened after he died. But I'm sure that at the time these stories (about the lack of food) reached my ears when he was still alive. So the conditions of these horses must have meen terrible for years. That's so incredible sad.
Guest
Why has no mention or consideration been given to Eileen Verdieck who was as instrumental as Michael Byatt (and in my opinion even more influential as she spent a lot more time in Qatar and was involved much longer than MB) in purchasing the mares and making the breeding decisions?

Hey ho ohmy.gif .
Guest
thats true and it was eileen who really had the first contact with al shaqab stud - she sold many great horses to them.
Ansata Halim Shah was never owned by Al Rayyan but only by Al Shaqab stud were he died several months after arriving there. In those months he bred some fantastic mares and made by that still a huge impact on the Qatari breeding programs.

The owner of Al Shaqab is : HH the Emir of Qatar Sheikh Hamad Bin Khaliffa Al Thani. Al Shaqab stud is now under managment of Qatar foundation and managed by Mr. Hassan Matwi. smile.gif
Guest
this is what I found about the Gucci- horses on a other forum, these are from magazines.



QUOTE
FORMER GUCCI HORSES SAVED FROM STARVATION

A British court has banned Penny Armstrong, the lover of the late de-signer Paolo Gucci, from keeping horses for five years. The case against Armstrong was instigated by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals after inspectors visited Gucci's Arabian stud farm at the $3 million mansion in Sussex.

The court heard how several Arabian horses were found emaciated after not being fed for two weeks. Armstrong, 28, pleaded guilty to the 11 counts and was ordered to pay $8,850 costs plus $24,500 compensation to the RSPCA for causing unnecessary suffering to the horses.

Armstrong, who claims to be an experienced horsewoman, took over the stud farm when she moved in with Gucci. But when Gucci died two years ago at age 64, he left no will. Legal problems over his estate have since caused considerable wrangling in both Britain and the United States. Gucci also declared himself bankrupt in 1994 and his country estate was handed over to the receivers.

The Arabian horses were deemed "assets" in that transaction, and Armstrong's lawyer, Matthew Pascall, told how she had tried to keep the stud viable despite its $9,000-per-month running costs. They intended to sell some of the more valuable horses, but no deals ever materialized.


other quote;

They feed horses, don't they; a federal raid uncovers dozens of emaciated Arabians at Paolo Gucci's farm.

Marjorie Rosen.

Abstract: Paolo Gucci owns Millfield Stables in Yorktown Heights, NY, where 100 horses were found to be in poor condition. Marshals seized 15 horses after their former owner claimed Gucci had not paid for them in full. The condition of the horses is blamed on the pending divorce between Gucci and his estranged wife.

Full Text: COPYRIGHT 1993 Time, Inc.

IT WAS NOT A PRETTY PICTURE. EARLY this month about 100 underfed Arabian horses were found at a Westchester County farm north of New York City. Some were starving. Some had protruding ribs and haunches. Others had mangy coats. None had been inoculated against rabies; none had received routine hoof care. And those were the survivors; at least four horses were found to have died in the past four months.

All of this came to light Nov. 4 when U.S. marshals raided Millfield Stables in Yorktown Heights, N.Y., a farm that court papers show is indirectly owned by Paolo Gucci, 62, an heir to the famed Gucci leather-goods empire. Over the next few days the marshals seized 15 emaciated Arabians that Gucci had purchased from a Texas breeder in May 1992 but had allegedly not finished paying for. The 15 horses will be returned to Texas when they are strong enough to travel. The other 85 remain at Millfield Stables. All were gaunt and weakened, says Gucci's estranged wife, Jennifer, 43 -- who is involved in an acrimonious two-year divorce battle with Paolo -- because "Paolo will just go to no end not to give me a settlement."

Not so, says Gucci's new love, former stable girl Penny Armstrong, 24, who is mother to his 9-month-old daughter, Alyssa. She inspected Millfield Stables in October, she insists, and found no problems. "Most of the horses were fine," she says, claiming that the tabloids exaggerated their conditions and that Jennifer Gucci is raising the issue solely to force his financial hand. "She's trying to get at him in any way,"she says, adding that Gucci was traveling and could not be reached.

Jennifer Gucci is not the only one who links the substandard conditions at Millfield Stables to her divorce proceedings in 1991. Alexis Bitely, Gucci's former stable manager, says, "When the divorce first started, things began to deteriorate. Until then, the horses were all well-fed and healthy."

But by last January, says Bitely, there was little food because the feed bills hadn't been paid. During the next 10 months the horses would sometimes go as long as five days unfed. "Paolo doesn't want his wife to have the property or the horses," she speculates. "He wants to prove that he has no money so that she gets none from him."

In May, Jennifer, a former opera singer who lives in Manhattan, stopped by the farm. "It was unbelievable," she says. " I got on the phone to my husband [in England], who I don't often speak to, and I said, `For godsakes, Paolo, do something about these horses, you idiot.' And he said, `What do you want me to do? Get money from trees?' "

Meanwhile, Bitely spent $3,000 of her own on feed; Jennifer Gucci, who claims her husband has cut her off financially, contributed $700 (her bank account, she says, held only $1,500 at that time). By May, reports Bitely, "the pasture was bare of grass, since the horses had eaten every bit of digestible material. In fact, they had begun to eat the wood fence." Hunger wasn't the only problem. In June a colt died of rabies. And three expired from colic.

Dealings between the Guccis had eroded as well. In March, before being released on $100,000 bond, Paolo was jailed for 24 hours in Bridgeport, Conn., for failure to pay $350,000 in alimony and support for daughter Gemma, 10 (the case is still pending). It was not Paolo's first public family fight. In 1986 he blew the whistle on his father, Aldo Gucci, causing the 81-year-old head of the family business to be jailed in the U.S. for a year for tax evasion. On another occasion, Paolo emerged from a board meeting covered in blood, allegedly from a fistfight with his father, brothers and cousin. And in 1980, the same year he left the business, he was sued by the family over his intent to use the Gucci name for his own ventures (he retains limited rights).

Yet the long-term neglect of the horses puzzles many, since as recently as 1992, Gucci sponsored the Preakness Triple Crown Ball. However, the SPCA of Westchester, responding to numerous calls, sent an agent to check on the horses several times, ordered shelters built (some were) and was preparing to seize the horses when the U.S. marshals moved in. Now the society monitors the situation twice daily, ensuring that the horses are fed. "I'm sure this is all part of the divorce problem," says Elly Burzon, director of the SPCA. "But we really don't care about that. We just want to make sure these animals are fed."



Another article...


QUOTE
Knight Ridder/Tribune News Service, Sept 10, 1995

Gucci heir being investigated on animal cruelty charges. (Originated from New York Daily News) Ellen Tumposky.

Full Text: COPYRIGHT Knight-Ridder/Tribune News Service 1995

LONDON _ Fashion family scion Paolo Gucci's divorce and bankruptcy battles have been a long-running international soap opera _ ``Dallas,'' Italian-style.

Now, in the latest episode, Gucci _ whose grandfather founded the luxury leather-goods company _ is under investigation in England on charges of animal cruelty. Neighbors complained that horses on his stud farm were emaciated and neglected.

The charges recalled allegations made in Westchester County, N.Y., two years ago, when U.S. marshals raided Millfield Stables, indirectly owned by Gucci, and found 102 starving Arabian horses. The horses were fattened up with food provided by the Westchester Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals before being sold.

A spokeswoman for the Royal SPCA in London said a chief inspector was sent last week to investigate the condition of 100 horses at Gucci's farm in West Sussex, which is adjoined by a $4.5 million Tudor-style mansion.

``It's an ongoing investigation,'' she said, refusing further comment.

Gucci dismissed the complaint as harassment. His girlfriend, 26-year-old Penny Armstrong, a former stablegirl at the farm, said the horses were fine, although ``there's always bound to be one or two that don't look as I'd want them to.''

She blamed the charge on jealous neighbors.

The RSPCA probe may be the least of Gucci's problems. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Jeffrey Gallet issued a warrant for Gucci's arrest two weeks ago because of his failure to comply with a subpoena to appear for bankruptcy proceedings in New York.

Gucci said a doctor advised him that he was not fit for travel. ``The judges in your country are not easy people,'' he said.

Then there is his five-year divorce fight with his British wife, the former Jenny Puddefoot, 46. That epic battle landed Gucci in jail in the Bronx last year, when Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Phyllis Gangel-Jacob took exception to the argument that his bankruptcy precluded paying child support.

Jenny Gucci, an opera singer who lives in Manhattan with their daughter, 12-year-old Gemma, did not mince words when talking about the man she met on a blind date in Florence, Italy almost 20 years ago.

``I would say he's psychotic,'' she said. ``He's a very disturbed human being.''

Jenny Gucci left her husband when she discovered he was having an affair with a secretary. She said they were blissfully happy for a decade, jet-setting among luxurious homes in Italy, England and Manhattan.

What changed him, she believes, was the $40 million he received when his family sold the business to Investcorp, a company controlled by Arab investors.

He views their breakup as a more conventional marital split, saying, ``Your feelings may change, and you may realize that the character and temperament of the person is not what you expected.''

He complained that his wife keeps him away from his daughter. ``I haven't received a letter, a postcard, nothing for at least a year.''

But Gucci has not lacked for family life in Britain. He and Armstrong have a 2-year-old daughter and a son who was born last month.

Jenny Gucci said she had ``absolutely no ax to grind'' with Armstrong: ``She's welcome to him.'' She has a new love, too _ Michael Recchiuti, a New York opera coach.

But she is interested in getting her fair share of the bucks and believes Gucci's voluntary bankruptcy filing was aimed at cheating her of it.

When it's all over, she said, she is not sure if she will remain in the United States or go back to England. But come what may, she plans to keep the Gucci name. The days of Jenny Puddefoot are long over.
majestik1
QUOTE (Guest @ Nov 7 2005, 03:57 AM)
huh.gif Already in 1993 I've been told a story from a young trainer who had worked at the Gucci farm near to New York.She told me they had to steal food for the herd of broodmares who had no food for days. Cucci ordered them to keep the mares in the pasture so they could feed themselves..... but no grass grew on these pastures. There was some grain stashed in a barn but it was closed and they would lose there jobs not obey his orders. Still they did what they could.  How long did this misery go on? (sorry, been away from the Arab- scene too)


completely offtopic;
rolleyes.gif The same year I saw this man on a European show and got a quarrel whit him. Decorating a stand at the EC by mistake I hit a nail right true the eye off a pictured mare in his stand. ohmy.gif  He got angry with me, but we laughed about it for days. You should have seen the expression on his face, facing me whith the terrible mistake I've made! laugh.gif  tongue.gif  biggrin.gif

NEVER MIND I SEE YOU'VE DONE RESEARCH LOL
majestik1
doesn't this just makes you sick how this a@@hole can treat his prized mares because of dispute over alimony and palimony honestly people like that should be shot and quartered and fed to the dogs. how bleeping iimmature can you be
god damn it you made the kid you married this woman no one forced you to marry or have kids greedy that's all he was a total jerk and his beautiful horses suffered in the end because all he cared about is money


the reason why eileen is not mentioned is because these horses were sold to al shaqab through michael byatt it's nothing against eileen it's just that's the way it worked out i remember eilleen had many contacts in the middle east as well as in europe because that's the type of business she ran

as for Halim Shah i honestly thought AL Rayyan owned him until his untimely death ... i stand corrected. they seem to be breeding straight egyptians exclusively so i assumed they owned him.
majestik1
I WOULD LIKE TO APOLOGIZE FOR MY LANGUAGE IT SLIPS OUT WHEN I'M MAD ohmy.gif unsure.gif biggrin.gif
Guest
at least he did not live happely ever after.... Just don't buy any Gucci laugh.gif
Ralph
There is something to be said about Arabian Horse people....



Time and time again, they will always find the drama in life. rolleyes.gif
majestik1
QUOTE (Guest @ Nov 7 2005, 07:13 PM)
at least he did not live happely ever after.... Just don't buy any Gucci  laugh.gif

hehe even if i wanted i can't afford to go Gucci lol too expensive

Your highnesss Ralph with all due respects just wanted to know

are you pointing or hinting at me being the drama queen or arabian horse people in general biggrin.gif tongue.gif wink.gif BARB
Ralph
Barb, how long ago did this happen and how long has it been since Gucci died...and what good does it do to keep talking about a horrible situation, over and over and over.

For example, if you were on a street corner selling lemonade, are you going to tell the people who want to come over and buy a cup that the lemonade is sour?

We are our own worst enemies.

As beautiful as our horse is. As vibrant and inspiring as our horse is, we can't seem to find anything better to talk about than horrible shit. And everybody has to pontificate on it. Tell me, is there someone hidden away somewhere that is keeping track of how we respond in discussions like these and will reward us with some kind of a prize?

Ralph
majestik1
QUOTE (Ralph @ Nov 7 2005, 09:36 PM)
Barb, how long ago did this happen and how long has it been since Gucci died...and what good does it do to keep talking about a horrible situation, over and over and over.

For example, if you were on a street corner selling lemonade, are you going to tell the people who want to come over and buy a cup that the lemonade is sour?

We are our own worst enemies.

As beautiful as  our horse is. As vibrant and inspiring as our horse is, we can't seem to find anything better to talk about than horrible shit. And everybody has to pontificate on it. Tell me, is there someone hidden away somewhere that is keeping track of how we respond in discussions like these and will reward us with some kind of a prize?

Ralph

I do understand your point thank you By the way I wasn't trying to be sarcastic in my previous post people just ask so i tried to answer but i see your point to o. and no there's no prize for this not that i expected one but i apologize if i offended by trying to answer another person's questions . BARB

as for lemonade i'd make it as sweet as possible with out going overboard so there would be no reason to say it's sour wink.gif

by the way i maybe a drama queen but i'm beyond teenage years blink.gif
Guest
QUOTE (Ralph @ Nov 7 2005, 09:36 PM)
we can't seem to find anything better to talk about than horrible shit. And everybody has to pontificate on it. Tell me, is there someone hidden away somewhere that is keeping track of how we respond in discussions like these and will reward us with some kind of a prize?

Ralph

I didn't know the full story, just that some of the the ancestors of Pianissima were found starving. Guess you feel I don't have the right to know what happened sad.gif
Guest
same to me! I just feld stupid not knowing what has happend after my escepade with mr. Gucci. I'm not a dramaqueen, just wanted to know the facts!


so back on topic then;

All Shaqabs are great! smile.gif
Guest
and to be honoust with you; I did'nt even know the guy was dead!!!!!!!!!1 laugh.gif
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