Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Psyche Lines
StraightEgyptians.com Forum > Overview - ‹bersicht > Discussion - Diskussion
Guest.cate
Although I like most of the combinations of Psyche lines (whether Magnum or any of the others) with other lines I really cannot understand the hysteria over this horse blink.gif ...to what seems to be to the exclusion of other breeding lines.

Certainly he is a lovely horse, but in his photos, although a beautiful head, I do not look at him and say "An Arabian". Possibly because most of his photos show him being stretched. Would be nice to see him come out under saddle or photos of him being natural without false posing.

I look at a lot of others and say definitely Arabian for example Hafid Jamil wub.gif Ok., he is extreme.

What do others think or is this a no no subject cool.gif
Guest
Not nono, but definitely a matter of taste!
Guest
You cant compair Hafid and Magnum, they are two totally different kind of arabians!!

as guest says, it's a matter of taste! and if Magnum doesnt look like an arab, then what breed would you think he was?!

I dont like either Hafid or Magnum, but still I would say that both have lots of arabian type!
Mareike
Of course a matter of taste!
tkr9
I can't get to adore Magnum, he lacks the substance I like to see in any horse, including arabians, so if I was asked to judge Psyche lines I wouldn't favour the Magnum branch of the family.

Padrons Psyche I do like. He's a lovely, well-built horse and has some lovely paces and the Russian in his bloodlines is droolworthy. I also saw his son Psynergy and he took my breath away, he was huge, quite literally, and moved beautifully.

It's a matter of taste really! If you prefer SEs Psyche may not appeal as he is larger, more horse-like than arabian in type, like many of his Russian and Polish anscestors. I think he's lovely. I would like his get to be more compact, but that's only my personal taste, but Padron looks gorgeous AND he looks like you could take him hunting or pop him over the course at Burghley horse trials!
Guest
tkr9,
I agree with you! Psynergy is in my opinion alot better than Magnum! More substance, more russian looking, he is a real horse, the kind of arabian that I would love to ride!
I have to admit that I would be afraid of riding Magnum, each step I would fear that he would fall apart, break a leg, neck or back smile.gif No offence, but an honest opinion! rolleyes.gif

Padrons Psyche and Padron are both just "drop dead" gorgeous!! I dont think anyone can disagree with that?!? smile.gif
Guest_cate_*
I think tkr9 has really answered the question in saying that the Psyche lines are definitely more horse like than Arabian in type........I suppose that answers what I asked in a nutshell........thank you tkr9 dry.gif
Guest
Cate,
Then what would you consider a real arabian?!? I dont think you are fair smile.gif
The Psyche line doesnt have the same type (dished heads) as fx Hafid Jamil, but then again they are not egyptians, and the head is not everything... blink.gif
I never had a problem in seeing that the psyche horses were arabians!!
Guest_cate_*
Guest
I dont particularly dislike Psyche lines and have seen a lovely picture of Psynergy and he just looked lovely and very Crabbet looking, but I think tkr9 really explained very well the difference in type for me, and probably the answer needed.

I do love a nice head, but a head is not everything and what I feel is not terribly Arabian as I have said is the very long necks and extra long thin legs. I love the type Albadeia stud breed; Ezzain Arabians, and of course Al Nakeeb Arabians and others. I have a friend, Mike of Blenheim Arabians, who breeds SE and his type do not all have extreme heads, but they have substance and in short look as though they could be ridden and still look like Arabians.

I think in the photos of Magnum he looks more like a Saddlebred...just my opinion, so, therefore, wondered why, if he is like this in the flesh, he is so popular.
Cate Guest
Should really have said that only by asking questions does one learn why certain bloodlines are so popular biggrin.gif
Guest
>> and what I feel is not terribly Arabian as I have said is the very long necks and extra long thin legs. <<

I agree with you on that!!!! Too many of the arabians today looks more like a giraf than a horse! Because of what? Because of fashion!! sad.gif
well anyway, I think the fashion question has been discussed alot of times before, lets stick to the subject smile.gif

I too like the type of the Al Badeia horses alot!! Those are the kind of arabians I would say is the ideal of arabian type!! and without too much "Nagel blood", actually I guess the only stallion that got it, is Ansata Sharav...

I must admit that I see the NK breed horses coming up as a fashion too, pretty heads, and?? ok sorry, not a discussion about NK horses ph34r.gif
Again a matter of taste!

Padron is the KING! wub.gif
hlsmaripa
oh Cati, Magnum Psyches, Itīs a long long discussion....

but which is the arabian type? The old arabian or the modern arabian? but itīs a long long discussion, too.

long legs, short legs, 1.40...1.60 or more
versatility or top model?
blink.gif ph34r.gif unsure.gif


Best Regards,

Marianella
Sissy
Cate,
did you ever see Magnum in the flesh or for that matter any horse of that line? It's important to experience any horse for yourself in the flesh and not rely on photos to make up your mind.
You asked why this line is so popular? Don't forget that in Arabian horses it often comes down to marketing. This line has strong marketing support and therefore strong followers who rely on this support. It's the same with Thee Desperado lines in Egyptian circles. Like it or not it's a substantial argument to get involved with such lines.
Type is a matter of taste, it always has been and always will be. You can't discuss about the different types. They do exist. You don't need to like it but you have to accept it.
Guest_cate_*
Sissy,
Never seen him in the flesh and I am sure he would look quite different as photographs often lie dry.gif Which brings me to ask why show such photos if they are not true to his type in the flesh.


I suppose really this is a never ending discussion. I always remember reading, and I cant remember where, that the trouble with the Crabbet horses was that they were loosing type and breeding more on the lines of say for arguement sake an English Hunter type. I wonder if these long necked, long legged horses will go out of fashion as surely their legs cannot be as strong i.e. as with a Great Dane....I believe they do not take a lot of exercise.
Connyi
I believe Magnum is a living statue, a model horse, a prototype of his own, a piece of art (and proved to be artficially modified dry.gif ).
As for real "quality" I cannot understand the hype about him, but he and his offspring are brilliantly managed and advertised. He passes on his own type like his sire, which is remarkable. However, it is clearly a matter of taste if you like those Barbie doll horses or not. Maybe one can imagine how the horse would look without the shaving and grease and conditioned in a European style. I am sure this would make a huge difference.
Guest_cate_*
Connyi
I couldnt have put it better myself, and am quite sure he must absolutely must look normal without the shaving and grease and stretching, although without all this would he deepen in the girth?
Connyi
Well, who knows? Maybe they undertook some liposuction... cool.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif
Heather Brown
Firstly, hysteria; where is this? UK, Europe?? Psytadel certainly was popular as he sired two Reserve World Champions but so is Eternity, Khidar etc etc

If you're talking about the US, well they always overuse popular sires (Bey Shah, Khemosabi, Muscat, El Shaklan and on and on...) They also like different things and give them any sire and they will breed it to look like what they want.

I would not say Magnum was particularly representative of Psyche lines; but he is one line and with quite different attributes to his sire. Personally, he is not for me or rather his type isnít, but I have travelled amongst many experienced breeders who are fans, itís all a matter of taste and I certainly wouldnít refuse a horse with Magnum in his pedigree if this horse was my type.

Why is Psyche popular; because of the Psyche magic. He can improve heads (AND TYPE) dramatically, without losing function and vica versa. Often progeny have superb tail carriage and movement. This is a step forward.

As with any stallion not all are wonderful and I personally donít like the way the Americans generally breed him(I went to Scottsdale last year and if I had seen some of the stock before, I may have never bred my stallion!)

Of course I can only really talk about my own produce, Psycheís Spirit (by Padronís Psyche and out of pure polish mare, SL Sweet Emotion by Enrilo) bred by myself and my beautiful mare Vainglorious(by Padronís Psyche out of VS Khourtney by Khouros).

Both have: great balanced bodies, short backs, strong loins, deep girths, good legs and bone, short cannons, Big eyes with very black skin and quality of coat, huge nostrils on top (as all drinkers of the wind should have), wonderful way of moving (hooking their necks onto the bit), big hock action and fantastic tail carriage. Spirit in particular has tiny ears (as all stallions should), a short head with his eyes low and a very broad forehead Ė more true type than many SEís!

Both have bred me fantastic stock. Every child of Spiritís shown(vast majority) is a Show Winner and most are Champions. Vaingloriousí last foal was by Ekstern and was shown at Borgloon International Show last year and was second to the Filly who went on to be Aachen Champion.


Heather Brown gbfahne.gif
Guest_cate_*
Heather,

I must say I love Psyche's Spirit....never seen him in the flesh, but would love to. Love his stock also, cant say there is anything I have seen that I dont like! wink.gif

I look at them all a feel I could ride them and they have type wink.gif .....I have your DVD Superb!
Guest
"I believe Magnum is a living statue, a model horse, a prototype of his own, a piece of art (and proved to be artficially modified dry.gif ).
As for real "quality" I cannot understand the hype about him, but he and his offspring are brilliantly managed and advertised. "

Are you implying that his popularity is all down to a good marketing program??? blink.gif

Take a look at some of the names of breeders who are buying Magnum offspring, not everyone is as dumb as your statement implies, some people recognize REAL "quality" when they see it, hype or no hype. mad.gif ph34r.gif mad.gif ph34r.gif mad.gif
guest
Guest
I wonder in a few years time with the Arabian breeding saturated in these lines if everyone will still be singing his praises ohmy.gif

Quite correct...he is a living statue, model horse....quite literaly.........a barbie horse biggrin.gif biggrin.gif Thin long neck, long thin barrel and long, long thin stilt like legs sad.gif Legs that couldnt possibly stand up to hard work!

Breeders are supposed to be the custodians of the Arabian breed....not turn these beautiful creatures into look alike Standardbreds and any other fad that comes along.....The Arabian horse is the laughing stock of the horse world. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif HOW SAD!!! sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif

Thankfully there are breeders out there who do not follow fashion. Of course this horse has an abundance of champions etc.,........take a good look at how many mares are sent to these horses.....any stallion covering the amount of mares these horses are is bound to outstrip other stallions. HYPE! HYPE! HYPE!

People are so foolish thinking they can do a better job that THE MOST HIGH GOD....I dont think so wink.gif

THANK THE GOOD LORD FOR BREEDERS LIKE DR. NAGEL, USSAMAH, AL NAKEEB, ALBADEIA as another poster mentioned.......and those who do not follow breeding hysteria!!! blink.gif mad.gif laugh.gif
Guest
"Quite correct...he is a living statue, model horse....quite literaly.........a barbie horse biggrin.gif biggrin.gif Thin long neck, long thin barrel and long, long thin stilt like legs sad.gif Legs that couldnt possibly stand up to hard work!"

Legs that possibly couldn't stand up to hard work???? So lets see here, Magnum is better conformed than some of the every fault in the book Arabians that came straight out of the desert, so that was a very naive statement to have made.

"Breeders are supposed to be the custodians of the Arabian breed....not turn these beautiful creatures into look alike Standardbreds and any other fad that comes along.....The Arabian horse is the laughing stock of the horse world. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif HOW SAD!!! sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif"

Standardbred? Funny, I hate Standardbreds and Magnum in no way resembles one to me.
Yes the Arabian is the laughing stock of the horse world but when has it ever truly been any different. As long as the emphasis is placed on posing around a ring looking pretty, it always and forevermore will be.

"Thankfully there are breeders out there who do not follow fashion. Of course this horse has an abundance of champions etc.,........take a good look at how many mares are sent to these horses.....any stallion covering the amount of mares these horses are is bound to outstrip other stallions. HYPE! HYPE! HYPE!"

And of course, none of these mares could have had Magnum picked to cover them because it was an intelligent breeding decision? Or that he consistently sires quality??

"People are so foolish thinking they can do a better job that THE MOST HIGH GOD....I dont think so wink.gif"

What is wrong on improvement. As I mentioned earlier, take a look at the conformation in the early Arabians, I don't see very much to be desired there.

"THANK THE GOOD LORD FOR BREEDERS LIKE DR. NAGEL, USSAMAH, AL NAKEEB, ALBADEIA as another poster mentioned.......and those who do not follow breeding hysteria!!! blink.gif mad.gif laugh.gif"

Undeniably nice horses, but again, it's all a matter of taste and just because yours is different to another's, is not a reason to publically insult anything that goes opposite.
Guest
It's ok Julia
Guest
ph34r.gif ph34r.gif ph34r.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Guest
Magnum..............mmmmmmmm not my cup of tea at all, and I have not ever
seen one of his sons or daughters that are either.

The Arabian Standard of excellence clearly states that Arabian horses MUST
have short cannons & long forearms with large flat joints, he must also have
short strong back and a deep girth with well sprung ribs. The neck should
come up high from the withers and be arched etc etc etc......no where does
it say that an Arabian horse should have a long thin planky neck, shallow
girth, weak loins and thighs and Gaskins and a looooong back to match, which
describes Magnum Psyche to a T and most of his offspring that I have seen as
well.

It never fails to amaze me when I watch judges place these horses high in
the show ring, when they not only do not meet the Arabian standard of
excellence but also do not even represent what is accepted as basic good
conformation.

As for heads on the Magnum Psyches, I have yet to see one that matches it's
photo, as someone said on this thread he is a product of a very clever
marketing machine.


As someone said, thank God for learned breeders that know and understand a
Good horse as well as a good Arabian and will not follow this crazy fashion
Connyi
Well, guest 09:50, can you provide a quote of me stating breeders who use Magnum are stupid? I did not say or mean this in any way!
His popularity is not only due to marketing, it needs an extraordinary horse and a brilliant manager biggrin.gif He is striking because he is different and he strongly passes on his own type. he sets a new standard of his own.
tkr9
Re. Not passing on his looks to some of his get headwise - Magnum looks very like his mum , if you compare the pictures you can see where he gets it from, and he comes from a long Spanish line on his dam's side, I think, so the look will probably be passed on more by his daughters than his sons.

I appreciate he's doll-like and quite stunning, but really not my idea of a horse. I'm sure many people like him but I see a lack of substance. I've seen his video, which is as near as I'll get to seeing him in person, but I was no more enthusiastic. I saw a video of Padrons Psyche tho and it only reinforced my opinion of him as absolutely GORGEOUS!
Connyi
Tkr9 were you addressing me? I think he passes on his general appearance, his smootheness, slenderness/lack of substance (well, that's conditioning, too), long legs and often his colour and head. I did not claim he has his sires head, no way. There are lots of other horses by Padrons Psyche which resemble him more. I saw Psyches Ambassador and he has the same profile as PP, also his movements and tail carriage seem quite similar, but I know PP only from pics and his videos. But still, this is remarkable smile.gif
tkr9
Sorry, got wrong end of the stick. Very bored at the moment at work so brain isnít working properly.

Heather, any chance of reserving Kryzstal for, say, about three years until Iím rich enough to own and keep a horseÖ smile.gif She's gorgeous!
LoLoXLC
QUOTE (tkr9 @ Jan 18 2006, 01:09 PM)
Re. Not passing on his looks to some of his get headwise - Magnum looks very like his mum , if you compare the pictures you can see where he gets it from, and he comes from a long Spanish line on his dam's side, I think, so the look will probably be passed on more by his daughters than his sons.


Do you have a pic that shows his dam looking alike MP?

As for MP himself: I belong to the group of people who don't like him (seems to me that either you like him a lot or not at all, not much in between). He doesn't look arabian. I can only repeat what the others said: too long back, much too long, thin legs, weird looking neck (as it's much too long and slim) and a completely artificial look as a whole. Someone once described him as a "sausage on toothpicks" laugh.gif

I also agree that his fame came from a very good managing. He was "made" to be successful.

But I would say he's not the typical get of his father. The other get of him I know look more arabian.

Btw: PP himself I looks great, imho.
Guest
LoLoXLC - if Magnum doesn't look Arabian, I'd love to know what he looks like to you, there is nothing about him that isn't 101% Arabian. Maybe not your type of Arabian but nonetheless, there is no mistaking him for anything else.

You state that he has had "good management", this may be true but no way on this earth was MP "made" to be successful. There are many stallions out there who have or have had equally good promotion and exposure and they never got where MP is today.

The facts are, like him or hate him, MP is where he is today because of WHO he is, and to claim it is for any other reason is being a more than a little naive.

So he's not to your taste - deal with it - I thought this thread was about PP lines (lines as in plural), last time I checked, MP is not the only PP son, maybe it's time to move on instead of going over the same old ground.
shirazarabs
Excuse me but isn't this forum moderated ???
Personal insults about specific horses is totally ignorant mad.gif rude and insulting, we all have our preferences, type etc, however we should all be breeding to the standard of excellence and YES I have Psyche progeny, a beautiful colt by Magnum 44 and I would invite anyone to my property to view him, he has wonderful conformation, type and attitude, even our vet couldn't believe how beautifully put together he is, including his legs! (of course his dam is a beautiful mare & has wonderful conformation too) and we also have a beautiful filly by Psyches Spirit ditto. Photos are in the 2006 babies section I beleive! biggrin.gif
I can only assume you are motovated by jealousy and/or afraid of the competition these progeny bring! Maybe also why you remain annonymous.
I recently saw some video footage of the first show El Shaklan attended in the UK I was struck by the TOTALLY different look of him to every other horse in that class, he was obviuosly a stand out but was not given first place, he was just too different!!!! If this attitude had been perpetuated the breed would never have moved on. Yes there are irresponsible breeders who breed anything to anything to make a living, however I don't, my horses are my pleasure and I find your comments an affront to the beautiful babies I have on my property today, who I know are top class!!!
Regards Deb
Guest
dear shirazarab

like anyone that posts under guest on this forum we do so that we can voice our opinion freely, this is what the forum is for, noone was saying anything untrue about MP it is the truth go look for yourself, he is a man made product, now that does not mean that the rest of the padron family is the same, although very few have good legs as it appears to be is a family traight, non the less there are some very good padron sons, such as psyche Spiirit, who in my opinion is the best representation of his family, much of this in my opinion comes from his wonderful tail female line, he does not appear to have nor does he seem to pass on the serious faults that is evident in others.

good luck with your foals i am sure they are very beautiful
Guest
Oh my, the only true thing that has been said about MP on this thread is the "hype" comment, and I'm not talking about it inthe general sense neither - you guys have promoted him so much on this forum over the years that Midwest don't have to spend a single penny on him.
Guest
well he dont look like any arab to me, he looks like a cartoon charactor, or someones exaggerated image of what an arabian might look like.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Guest
Yeah - better than what's in your barn I'm guessing.
rbcavalier
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachmentPersonally, Magnum Psyche is too much for me. His features have been exaggerated through careful breeding, his conditioning and pictures are posed so that they highlight how trully extreme he is to the point where he looks like he is straight out of a painting. Some people really like him, I respect this, and I respect his abilities as a sire. I also love his pedigree. I had the privelage of meeting Sasaki and A Fancy Miracle in person a few years back- they were simply incredible. I actually think Magnum looks more like Sasaki in the head and neck then he does Psyche, but Sasaki's beauty is lost in photos- he's one you really have to see.
Magnum, whether you like him or not, has generated a lot of interest and sparked new breeding trends, which have excelled in the show ring and brought new owners into the mix (I know of a few wealthy couples that purchased MP desc. as their first horses). I feel he has had a positive influence overall in the Arabian community.

I love Padrons Psyche and have from the first day that I saw his photo when I picked up my first Arabian magazine. I actually own a g-daughter of his, but I bought her because her breeding emphasized not only type, but substance and movement as well. Psyche, Naborr, and Tamerlan gave her incredible type, but it was Moment, Silver Drift, and Princip that really gave her an extra edge. Just check out that movement- a Psyche horse that is not only beautiful but can move is certainly adventageous to the breed. She is still young in these photos and she is also barefoot.
Guest_kls_*
Totally agree with you Deb, I also have a beautiful Magnum 44 colt, lovely body, excellent legs and great temperament.
rbcavalier
duplicate- sorry guys
Oliver
Why is it ever so hard to agree to disagree about
certain horses without bashing them?
You don't like horse A? You like horse B better? Fine.
We close this thread now , it's a useless discussion.
We should have closed it even earlier - sorry for that.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.