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LMG
After a couple of days talking to Georgia (Joja) about her stallion, Aarafic, and tracing his pedigree back to very early imports of Spencer Borden, in addition to Hallany Mistany, I must say that this is one of the most interesting pedigrees I've seen in a long time. This beautiful stallion has to have some of the rarest lines of Egyptian blood from his dam's side. It was a pleasure to do the pedigree study and very exciting for those of us who are a little strange about the old blood lines.

LMG
Georgia
QUOTE (Tous crins @ Mar 22 2006, 03:14 AM)
Hi Goergia,

He looks so nice on those pictures. You know what? All those ancestors on his dam line seem to live in their thirties!!!!
I haven't found that article to Nafud yet. I am pretty sure it is her and a tribute for her life and descendants at a very ripe old age.
It might take some time but when I find it I will post it or e-mail it to you.

Christine
*


Thank you very much Christine, His head looks somewhat long in the photo, which it is not, but I just like the photo..and he keeps a load of grass in his cheeks anymore like he's chewing tobacco.. I'm constantly digging it out, but he is probably just savoring it. ha! smile.gif
I look forward to seeing the info on Nafud.
Hope you can find, but whenever please email me. Appreciate it.

Georgia
Georgia
QUOTE (LMG @ Mar 24 2006, 01:56 AM)
After a couple of days talking to Georgia (Joja) about her stallion, Aarafic, and tracing his pedigree back to very early  imports of Spencer Borden, in addition to  Hallany Mistany, I must say that this is one of the most interesting pedigrees I've seen in a long time.  This beautiful stallion has to have some of the rarest lines of Egyptian blood from his dam's side.  It was a pleasure to do the pedigree study and very exciting for those of us who are a little strange about the old blood lines.

LMG
*


Boy, it was really a treat to read all the information you sent me. And you got that right about being a little strange about the old blood lines. I'm just a tad that way.... they are special horses indeed.
Thanks for all your hard work it was a joy. biggrin.gif

Georgia
Georgia
Here's some info on Julep that I saw...that gave a description.....

1939 grey colt Julep 1678, by Gulastra.

Julep was a three-quarter brother to Azkar, since Gulastra was also sire of Rahas. The Dickinson catalog states Julep was sold to Texas and described by a Nebraska rancher as

"a very stout looking horse, plenty of bone, good straight legs, extra good quarters and back also a fine looking horse, one of the best horses I've seen in a long time. A top cow horse."
Elliott Roosevelt bred 2 foals by Julep, a 1943 colt and a 1944 filly. Dr. LaRue of Illinois later purchased the horse. Julep stood his first season at stud in Illinois in 1954, siring foals for Dr. La Rue and the Warren Buckleys, including Synbad, the 1959 National Champion Stallion. The LaRues sold Julep in about 1957 to Buckley's Cedardell Stud. Julep sired 42 registered foals, the last born in 1964. Along with Synbad. Julep's son Julyan (out of Bint Maaroufa) also deserves mention.

By the way Lorriee, Synbad was another I used to sit and plot on how to buy one of his babies and drool over.

Georgia
Georgia
Looks like a young picture of Gulastra..
Georgia
I loved the picture of Zarife.. looked alot like Aarafic when he was young.

Picture of Julep reminded me of Fadl in a way

Georgia

I hope I can post.. if not please remove.
Tous crins
Hey, Lorriee and Georgia,

Why don't you post the pedigree discussion here? I'd love to read that too. Or e-mail it to me!

Christine
eak
I visited the Cedeall Farm in the early 1960's, and saw Julep. I believe Brad Braden was the farm manager at that time. He let us go in Julep's stall, told us to make over him, like all old men he liked and enjoyed attention. I went into his stall, put my arms around his neck and he laid his head on my shoulder. A wonderful, beautiful horse with a great disposition. At that time he was very aged and arthritic. However, he still had that wonderful confirmation. He was quite a horse, and it was one of the thrills of my life. Good memories.

Keep Smiling
Elizabeth
Guest
Back on March 19, Guest_LMG stated, in a post at 4:27 PM., that "In 1978, the Babson farm bred two mares to Julyan (Julep x Bint Maaroufa)...". In the interest of correctness, this is not really accurate; although there would not necessarily be any way for LMG to have known this, unless they were personally familiar with the principals involved (as I was).

First of all, the first two Straight Babson Old Egyptian mares bred to Julyan (and who actually produced FOALS, AND foals wihich lived long enough to be REGISTERED; since I am aware of at least one very fine one several years earlier out of a Babson mare which died before registration) were in fact covered in 1977, and their foals were BORN in 1978. The two Babson mares in question here - Sereneh #51705 (Ibn Fa-Serr x Serr Abba) and Serasabba #31970 (Fabah x Serrasab) - were PURCHASED from the Babson Farm by Julyan's OWNER, Joseph J. Zoran of Wisconsin, and his nearby-neighbor and sometimes-partner in the use and/or ownership of horses, Frank M. Brotz, respectively, for the very PURPOSE of breeding them to Julyan. The confusion on the part of LMG about the true persons or entities who bred them to Julyan for thier first foals by him no doubt results from the fact that the first two resultant foals from these matings - the fillies Juseneh and Jusera - are listed in the studbooks (and microfiche, datasource, etc.) as having been "bred" by the Babson Farm because these gentlemen were buying the mares on "time" (payments), and had not finished paying for them and obtaining the registration papers in their names by the time that the mares were bred for their foals. This was back in the days BEFORE someone other than the registered OWNER of a mare COULD be allowed by the Registry to be listed as the breeder of a foal from her; as would later be the case in the instance of leased mares, or mares such as these two who were being bought on a basis other than cash payable in full at the time of their purchase.

Sereneh's next registered foal after Juseneh was the 1980 chestnut mare Marah Abadiya (by Waseem Kumaal), who WAS listed as having been bred by Joe Zoran, because by then Sereneh was fully paid for and listed as being OWNED by him. After this he sold Sereneh to Bentwood Farms, and her next-registered foal, the 1982 grey mare REG Amiri Sereneh (by The Egyptian Prince) was shown as bred by them. Sereneh would go on to have SIX more registered foals after that one, for a variety of owners.

As for Serasabba, after Jusera, she produced ANOTHER foal - and another FILLY! - by Julyan, in 1979, with this being the grey Bint Serasabba. THIS one is correctly shown as being bred by Mr. Brotz, because by then he had also finished paying for Serasabba and had her registered in his name by the time that she was rebred to Julyan. After breeding this foal from her, he sold Serasabba to his friend and sometimes-partner Mr. Zoran, and her FINAL three foals (a 1982 bay gelding and 1985 bay mare by *Akmar [Ezz El Arab x Fadwa], and a 1984 grey gelding by Nabiel) are all listed as having been bred by him.

I felt it important to clarify this situation in regard to the contention that the Babson Farm itself had bred ANY of their mares to Julyan. They were always very, VERY reticent about breeding to ANY "outside" stallions, and almost NEVER did so, except for a couple of occasions when they brought back to the farm and briefly used, on a very limited basis, stallions which they themselves had actually bred there and sold away. Wrongly or rightly, the management there tended to feel that they had everything that they needed right there on the farm, in their own herd. In the case of Julyan, not only would his sire Julep (Gulastra x *Aziza) have provided an interesting and potentially valuable outcross for them to at least TRY in their program, but even his dam Bint Maaroufa was one of SEVERAL of the Fay-El-Dine x *Maaroufa daughters - and a BEAUTIFUL and EXCELLENT one - which they had bred but from whom they had NO descendants. In fact, by THAT time the ONLY one of the TEN Fay-El-Dine x *Maaroufa daughters from which they still had descent was the 1952 grey Aaroufa, and they believed that they did not need to expand their breeding base any further.

It is interesting to contemplate how their herd might have turned out if they HAD in fact made use of Julyan, and/or his sire, and/or any of several other excellent Straight Egyptian - Babson and otherwise - stallions whose use was offered to them over the years, or whose use they could easily pursued if they had been interested in doing so. Many of us feel that not only their OWN herd, but that the entire Straight Babson Old Egyptian grouping - and even the Straight Egyptian segment as a whole - would have benefited if they had at least tried some of these alternatives.
Guest_LMG_*
I stand corrected and have no reason to doubt the guest's statement. I am listed as the breeder of some Arabians which I did not breed for similar reasons as described by the guest.

LMG
Guest_LMG_*
I find the final statements of guest particularly interesting and one with which I am in full agreement. To that extent, I will, tomorrow, be receiving a new stallion to my farm, which I hoped to have since the 1960's and which is the result of the the efforts of thirty years or more of committed preservation breeders.

Hallany Mistanny (*Zarife x *Roda) and Babson in a straight egyptian stallion, what a thrill.

LMG
Guest
A small correction to the article "ANCESTORS OF GULASTRA", from the post #40 by Tous crins in which they reprinted part of it from page 36 of ARABIANA. It refers - incorrectly - to the sire of his dam Gulnare's paternal granddam *Rose of Sharon as being "HADBAN (Rabdan x Tarfa) a sire of lengthy necks.". This is the wrong Hadban. The one who sired *Rose of Sharon was the desertbred bay stallion, a Hadban Inzahi, foaled in 1878, purchased in Bombay, India by Wilfrid and Lady Anne Blunt in December, 1883, and imported by them to their Crabbet Stud in England in 1884. Interestingly, the only other foal which he sired for them was the mare Nefisa, out of another of their desertbred imports, Dajania, before he and another of their fine desertbred stallions, Kars, were sold and exported to Australia. It turned out that they were very pleased with the few offspring which they got from both of these stallions, and especially regretted having parted with Hadban after having only these two excellent daughters from him.

The Hadban to which the above article incorrectly refers is Hadban (Manial), a 1914 bay stallion bred and foaled in Egypt. His sire was Rabdan El Azrak (Dahman El Azrak x Rabda Koheila), an 1897 grey, and his dam Tarfa (Dahman El Azrak x Bint Freiha) was a grey foaled in 1898. Rabdan El Azrak was also the sire of the 1905 grey stallion Samhan (Manial) (x Om Dalal), grandsire of *Zarife, and ancestor of Moniet El Nefous (among many others), and of Ibn Rabdan, the beautiful and famous 1917 chestnut stallion. This Hadban (Manial) was used primarily in the Inshass Stud, and sired (among others) the mares Bint Dalal (Inshas) (x Dalal Al Hamra), a 1920 chestnut, and Bint Zareefa (Inshas) (x Zareefa [Inshas]), a 1926 grey; who both have straight Egyptian descendants on up to the present day.

This may be just a minor point, but many people take what they read as being "gospel" and assuming that it is factual; however, there is so very much incorrect information floating around on the Internet, that it makes sense to make corrections whenever and wherever possible.
LauraHM
Click to view attachmentMe on a non Egyption double Bask descendent of Julep; trail horse mare, about 15 or 16 years old in this pic. 1st purebred Arabian I ever rode. I loved her, but dont get out to Suffolk to see her anymore. She never had any purebred foals only a Quarab & 2 Arawalker babys.

Now I'm actually taking riding lessons (finally) at an Arabian/ NSH Barn only 8 miles form my House. I'm loving it. I get to see gorgeous Horses twice a week or more. (since I buy my dogs food there too) wink.gif
gtg, Hubby needs computer
Laura H M
Tous crins
Thank you very much for the correction Guest. I myself am pretty ignorant so would need to go check the registry, dates etc. assuming the registry is correct. Then of course many other books. I just bought this book and scanned the article- correcting spelling on badly scanned characters.

"HADBAN (Rabdan x Tarfa) a sire of lengthy necks.". This is the wrong Hadban.

Do you know if the "sire of lengthy necks" applies?
Where did the author read this?

Christine
LauraHM
I forgot to mention the mares name in the pic above (with me riding) Its "Loves Mint Julep" smile.gif Heres another photo of her. I was always sad she was never used to produce a purebred. But I'm glad to here Julep has S.E. descendents. Mint Julep herself is mostly Polish.
Tous crins
"HADBAN (Rabdan x Tarfa) a sire of lengthy necks.". This is the wrong Hadban.

Do you know if the "sire of lengthy necks" applies?
Where did the author read this?



I found the answer to this in

"The Arabian Horse in Egypt, From Antiquity To Present Day and Other Egyptian Articles" by Judith Forbis 1980

Click to view attachment
Clothilde
Hi everybody,
just a question for you dear LMG, who is this stallion?
I am so eager to know???!

have a nice day
Clo
LMG
Clo:

I've sent you an e-mail with the information. Thank you for your inquiry.

LMG
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