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Guest_LMG_*
When one starts talking about the famous progenitors of today's SEs, etc., many have little or no knowledge about the older lines of horses and even less know that their blood is still available.

Doing a search on this site, I found that Julep was only mentioned a few times, but this was one interesting horse and his blood is still available through a few SE, SO, Al Khamsa and Pyramid Society lines of horses.

Born in the same year that I was and sired by the famous Gulastra (a hot little ticket) and out of the very famous *Aziza, this horse is still available to SE breeders today. Besides Babson, Ansata, Glennloch, and Pritzlaff who were all tremendous contributors to SE breeders, there were some breeders (small numbers, but committed) who preserved this line, among others and for those who think that the only stallions in the SE world, were *A. Ibn Halima, *Morafic and *Fadl, I suggest that it would be very worthwhile to do a little pedigree digging and see how many very lovely descendants this horse still has today.

LMG
heidip
Only one horse carried this line foreward under the SE, SO, AK definition Julyan 1958 stallion
2nd generation
bint serabba
julanna
dahlya
Ensign
Julyanne
Bint Mist Aana
El Reata Juan Faddan
Jusera
Juseneh
Cyglenda Miller
Hi,

When we first got into Arabians these were the lines that our horses carried.
We owned: Royale En Shebat, Dena, Royale Saqqara, PE Desert Jewell, PE Shazeera, Royale Nezeer, PE Nashabe, Om Il Shazam and Royale Shekinah. These were sons and daughters of Ensign and Fadaan or grandget of them. If I can find some photos I will post them. As far as I know the ones that we owned and bred are still living, other than Dena. None of them were Straight Egyptian though.

Cyglenda
Carol Cooper-Hall
JULEP (AHR #1678)

Foaled: 6/30/1939
Presumed Deceased: 7/02/1981
Color: Grey
Gender: Stallion

SIRE: Gulastra
(Astraled [Mesaoud {Aziz x Yamama III} x Queen of Sheba {Desert Bred x Desert Bred}] x Gulnare [Rodan {Harb x Rose of Sharon} x Ghazala {Ibn Sherara x Bint Helwa}])

DAM: Aziza
(Gamil Manial [Saklawi II {Saklawi I x El Dahma} x Dalal {Rabdan x Om Dalal}] x Negma [Dahman {Gamil El Ahmar x Farida El Debani} x Bint Yamama {Saklawi I x Yemama}])

Progeny: 42 foals from 1943 to 1964:

YAKOV AHR*2600 01 May 1943 Stallion Black
JULAH AHR*2850 26 May 1944 Mare Grey
MINT JULEP AHR*9787 05 Feb 1955 Mare Grey
IBN JULEP AHR*9786 04 Apr 1955 Stallion Grey
SYNBAD AHR*10054 28 May 1955 Stallion Grey
FALEP AHR*10723 04 Apr 1956 Stallion Grey
JULIETT AHR*10722 18 Apr 1956 Mare Grey
ALA-ARABI RAZALI AHR*12539 19 Jun 1957 Mare Grey
JULYAN AHR*13123 05 May 1958 Stallion Grey
JULEE AHR*13363 10 May 1958 Mare Grey
SYNDERELLA AHR*14977 20 Feb 1959 Mare Grey
AL-MARAH MAY JULEP AHR*15393 06 Mar 1959 Mare Grey
KENTUCKY COLONEL AHR*14979 16 Mar 1959 Gelding Grey
QUEEN LIL AHR*14978 05 Apr 1959 Mare Bay
PRINCESS IRENE AHR*14980 06 Apr 1959 Mare Grey
YULEP AHR*15596 06 Apr 1959 Stallion Grey
BINT JULEP AHR*14600 07 May 1959 Mare Grey
JOLI AHR*14626 09 May 1959 Mare Grey
KEMAHS BINT JULEP AHR*15271 13 Jul 1959 Mare Grey
HIGH FASHION AHR*16884 24 Feb 1960 Mare Grey
MY FAIR LADY AHR*16888 16 Mar 1960 Mare Grey
KINGS RANSOM AHR*16886 27 Mar 1960 Stallion Grey
EVENING CHARM AHR*16885 10 Apr 1960 Mare Grey
ARIADNE AHR*16887 29 Apr 1960 Mare Grey
JUAREZ AHR*17145 29 Jun 1960 Gelding Grey
JULIUS AHR*19220 26 Feb 1961 Gelding Grey
GENERALISSIMO AHR*19223 07 Mar 1961 Gelding Grey
JULINDRA AHR*19107 13 Mar 1961 Mare Grey
GRAND SALAAM AHR*19219 19 Mar 1961 Gelding Grey
COLLEEN OF ARABY AHR*19222 10 May 1961 Mare Bay
SHOOTING STARLETTE AHR*19221 28 May 1961 Mare Grey
INJULIA AHR*22086 12 Mar 1962 Mare Grey
BOURBON PRINCE AHR*21889 20 Mar 1962 Gelding Grey
DAME SPARKLE AHR*21890 20 Mar 1962 Mare Grey
JULEPPA AHR*21891 20 Apr 1962 Mare Grey
LA PETITE AHR*21621 12 May 1962 Mare Grey
DESERT VIKING AHR*24511 24 Mar 1963 Gelding Grey
BAR MAID AHR*24509 28 Mar 1963 Mare Grey
DANCING-GIRL AHR*24510 30 Apr 1963 Mare Grey
MISS SEVENTEEN AHR*29871 25 Mar 1964 Mare Bay
PEYTON AHR*30807 03 Apr 1964 Gelding Grey
JULESTE AHR*28909 18 Apr 1964 Mare Grey
Cyglenda Miller
Here's another photo of Julep for you.

Cyglenda
Guest_LMG_*
Wonderful. Now, if we were to play a game and take Gulastra's sire, Astraled out of SE pedigrees today, which horses would vanish from the SE greats?

LMG
heidip
bint serra l
carol
Nazeer , because without Astraled there would have been no Sotamm
PGD
Interestingly enough (at least to me!), my little triple *Bask mare, JHB Scarlet Fever, (my *Bask/Cognac granddaughter who is heavily in foal as we speak...) is tail female (through HMR Julie) to Bint Bint Gulastra, who was the result of mating the Gulastra daughter, Binni, to Gulastra himself.

The straight Egyptian stallion Mesaoud appears 11 times in Scarlet's pedigree, *Abu Zeyd twice, Rodania appears 5 times, Astraled appears at least 3 times, and Bint Helwa appears numerous times, as does Rose of Sharon.

I love sifting through pedigrees - wish I had more time!

Nancy P.
Tous crins
I recently bought "ARABIANA" on e-nay and there is a serie of articles, a big portion of the book, on Gulastra. It discusses his pedigree, shows lots of pictures of him and his descendants and their impact on the breed (in the 70s).

A must read.

Christine
Guest_LMG_*
*Astraled was a Blunt bred horse, was by Mesaoud and out of the mare Queen of Sheba. *Astraled was imported to the US by Lothrop Ames and was never in Egypt, but without this Blunt bred horse, the Straight Egyptian Arabian Horse breeders would not have the following horses, who some claim are the backbone of straight Egyptian breeding:

There would be no Nazeer, Seef, Noha, Serenity Bint Mamlouka, Moniet El Nefous, no Halima and therefore no *A. Ibn Halima, no Badia and therefore no *Zaghloul, no Bukra and therefore no Bint Bukra, or *Ansata Bint Burka, no Bint Sabah and therefore no Bint Bint Sabbah, no *Ansata Bint Nazeer or *Bint El Bataa, or *Binte El Bataa, no Alaa El Din, no Antar, no *Morafic, no *Ibn Moniet El Nefous, no Sid Abouhom, no Sheikh El Arab, and on and on.

For those who like to talk about the influence of this or that straight egyptian horse on SE breeding, both here and in the US, we must give great credit to the stallion *Astraled who was bred in England and imported to the US and never once trotted on the desert sands of Egypt.

LMG
Guest_LMG_*
Correction: The above post shold have read both in the US and the rest of the world. Somedays, I'm not sure which part of the world I think I am in.

LMG
Tous crins
from Arabiana p52



"

GULASTRA
“HIS SON — JULEP and FAMILY”

by
Denny Tirral
CHAPTER VII


JULEP was foaled at J. M. Dickinson’s Travelers Rest farm near Nashville, Tennessee in June of 1939. His dam, *AZIZA was imported from Egypt by W. R. Brown, and she even in her later years was a strikingly beautiful and classic individual. GULASTRA standing to *AZIZA was a mark of sound line breeding practice as is noted by the remarkable potency for excellence. While JULEP’S sire, GULASTRA, was grandson to MESAOUD, his sire, AZIZ, would be the tail male line, or if you will, his grandsire, ZOBEYNI. However to show that JULEP is in fact line bred to AZIZ it is interesting to note the number of lines tracing to that horse. GULASTRA’s female tail line traces to AZIZ through his daughter BINT HELWA. Two more lines go to AZIZ in the middle of the pedigree, one through MESAOUD and the other via BINT HELWA who were sire and dam of HARB. All together GULAS-TRA packed 14 lines to AZIZ’s grandsire, ZOBEYNI. ~AZIZA’s tail dam line goes to AZIZ through his daughter, YAMAMA, plus about eight other lines in her pedigree. JULEP was for the most part bred much in the manner that the Egyptians do it. For that matter GULASTRA was near three-quarters Egyptian though he came by the way of England (Born through stock coming from that country to U.S.). Anyway if I didn’t make any mistakes JULEP would have 13 lines to AZIZ and 26 to ZOBEYNI. While the number of lines to ZOBEYNI is perhaps more impressive I wished to high-light, here, AZIZ as he was the sire of MESAOUD and show the great amount of influence of that horse on JULEP. Of course the true tail male line is BARQ who was sire of ZOBEYNI though most name ZOBEYNI as tail male line in these cases. In any event JULEP proved himself a powerful genetical giant by both pedigree and his ability to propagate this excellence.
JULEP as a young stallion was sold in Texas and sired his first foal in 1943, and another in 1944. The breeder was the well-known Elliot Roosevelt of Ren-brook, Texas. Next heard from him was that he ran the Nebraska ranges where he had to live with the elements, or at least this is the way rumor had it. Odd it is that it is said that JULEP’s three-quarter brother, AZKAR (Rahas x *Aziza) did time on the western ranges also. Must be that being a ‘range-runner’ ran in the family.
About 1953 he was acquired by Robert LaRue, a M.D. a well known breeder at Erie, Illinois, and he today is still considered one of the mid-west’s better breeders. This is where JULEP’s fame had its in-ception. Had it not been for Dr. LaRue it may have been that the priceless blood of JULEP would have been lost to the breed forever. There, among others, he sired the exceptionally beautiful IBN JULEP who for some time has been headman at the Davis Arabian Stud in Wisconsin. Another to gain fame was MINT JULEP, a classic in her own right, and a super excellent brood matron. She, like IBN JULEP, has earned more than their share of ‘booty” in the show rings.
A new page in GULASTRA history was turned at the birth of SYNBAD, bred by Joanna Buckley of Cedardell Arabian farms. In 1958 SYNBAD was named Reserve National Champion, and came back the next year to win National Champion Stallion. He was the first horse to win Inter. national’s Legion of Merit Though SYNBAD is still a fairly young horse he is well on his way to starting a very promising branch of the GULASTRA family, he him-self being on the leading sire list with as of 1970 the sire of 13 champions. Interesting is that his son, Cedardell Heritage, in 1969 was sire of two champions. A year later, in 1970, he was sire of nine champions, gaining seven champions in a single year. This was a larger gain in number of new champions than any other sire in America. Close on his heals was SMORAFIC with six new champs, and followed by BASK, SERAFIX, and THE REAL McCOY with five new champions each.
Certain it is that the GULASTRA family of champions is still growing. Mr. Cedardell, Cedardell Heritage son, was named 1971 Reserve National Champion Gelding. An interesting side-light n SYNBAD was that when he was born at Cedar-dell the colt was considered by the Buckleys as kind on the ‘un-handsome’ side and was given to “Red” Beyer who was trainer at the farm at that time. Certainly no one can call him ‘un-handsome’ now. That this ‘gift’ should besides becoming Reserve and en National Champion Stallion also was a champion in Park, Western Pleasure, English Pleasure, and Stock Horse proving again the athletic ability and the train-ability of the GULASTRA line horses. Horses without these abilities, even under the finest trainers, don’t get very far. Interesting it is to note at IBN JULEP was also a winner in all categories, it was never shown at the Nationals because of an jury.
SPARKLES, by SYNBAD, in 1964 was National champion Park Horse, and in 1965 was National champion Top Ten in English Pleasure. TALLULAH as a halter champion at two years old. Champions various performances and halter are MESALA, (N-ABABA, SYNCAPATOR, and SUPER X. SYN-BAD offspring are winners in the show ring in every category, and those named are but a few.
Another by JULEP who was a great winner at halter was full sister to SYNBAD, the beautiful SYNDERELLA, and she was quite a gal in Stock horse classes. It was unfortunate she died young in fight with another mare. Another full sister was HIGH FASHION who was named National Champion are, and went National Top Ten Park Horse. The daughters JULIETTE and MINT JULEP were Na-tional Top Ten mares. There are more winners by JULEP and some that you don’t see in the show ring such as JULYAN who seems to be valued by the "Blue” people and I’m told he is sire of excellent foals. JULYAN stands with J. J. Zoran in Wisconsin. JULEP, according to statistics compiled by Gladys Brown Edwards, from 1953 to 1968, is on the lead-ing sire list, but of more interest is that if figured percentage of champions to number of foals sired he would be rated third on the list. *SERAFIX first with 5%; *NABORR second with 27%. JULEP is listed with 11 Champions and 26%.
Under ‘Sire lines of Legion of Merit horses’, G.B.E. comes up with percentage of foals to Legion of Merit Awards. NABOR leads the list again with three for 30% which faded JULEP by 3% who had 3 for 27% and this tied HALLANY MISTANNY who figured the same so JULEP and HALLANY MISTANNY came nose to nose for second spot in this line up. There is more of interest in this Legion of Merit statistics. The total *RAFFLES line had seven sires working for him in this department and *RASEYN three. The GULASTRA line had JULEP, KATAR and ABU FARWA, which puts this line in second place with 12%. High man on the totem pole was *ZARIFE who had only HALLANY MISTANY batting the ball for his team and was ahead by 8% with 20%. This is most interesting because a good many of HALLANY’s kids were out of GULASTRA mares which puts them ore or less in the same genealogy lines as that of JULEP — this from 1953 through 1968 also. I would reckon that all these statistics have changed some by now and will some more in time to come.
JULEP was a handsome individual and like his sire is of excellent riding type. From pictures I’ve seen he had a good head with the traditional ‘dry” look. Small tapered ears pointing well in, and accen-tuated with a very large eye. A well-shaped neck going into his very good withers just right. A picture I’ve seen photographed when he was about thirty shows a very good back going into an excellent croup with a very high tail set which he held well flagged. A friend whom I consider a very good horse-man visited JULEP when he was about thirty, made a special point to comment on his very good and straight legs and this is something at that age. Too, he was impressed with his over all quality which is always hard to read for me when they get that far up in years — yet when it’s there you see it at any age. His sire, GULASTRA, showed this kind of qual-ity in his older years. A year ago when I last heard JULEP was still around at 32 though no longer siring foals the thought came to me how enduring the line is. GULASTRA made it into three decades and didn’t die from old age, but had to be put down as a result of an injury as mentioned before. ISLAM at 30 suffered the same fate because of cancer. BINIS made it to near 27 when he went away, and he was by ISLAM. Recently I heard that ABU FAR-WA who is in his 30’s is still with us and with help is servicing a limited number of mares. If this is so here would be an instance where artificial insemina-tion would be of real value to the breed. The ABU-FARWA sons, GA’ZI and ABU BAHA are getting up in years and still siring foals, and some of the old GULASTRA daughters are still being mothers.
In any event, JULEP, even with the lack of a large brood band proved himself to be a more than worthy son of GULASTRA. His daughters to have always been considered to be a real asset in brood bands and are highly valued. Genetic giants don’t come along every day so ‘hats off’ to this GREAT ONE."
anitae
Christina,
The grey mare I was riding tackless in the pasture at Johnson's in Arizona after the Symposium has Julep as her sire line. I have also seen Jusera at O'Donnells in Indiana twice. A lovely old mare when I saw her. Great disposition, a great mom, and very desert-looking - a rider's kind of horse in the way she moved. You could canter all day and never get tired.

Anita
Tous crins
Hi Anitae,

What was the name of your mare? I might have it in what I filmed but I haven't watched it yet. That was so nice to see you ride her!

Christine
Guest_LMG_*
When I was young, I was thrilled by the beauty of the wonderful Synbad and the
Julep descendants, but living on the West Coast of the US, I did not get an opportunity to see many of these horses in the flesh. Then, came the effort of several breeders to preserve the blood of Julep and although, today, I believe that it is correct, as stated above that our only source of straight egyptian breeding is through his son Julyan.

In 1978, the Babson farm bred two mares to Julyan (Julep x Bint Maaroufa), respectively, Juseneh and Jusera, and I believe Jusera had 15 offspring and Juseneh had 7. Therefore, this blood comes to us, primarily through Babson breeding. (See: Al Khamsa Online Roster Breeding for complete pedigrees via Al Khamsa Home).

While the blood of *Astraled is easily available via the better known later SE imports, the blood of the beautiful *Aziza is not, and we can still reach this wonderful mare through the descendents of her son, Julep.

LMG
Guest_LMG_*
I wish to thank all the contributed to this thread, as many of these horses which are in some of our memories, are totally unknown by more recent owners and breeders.

LMG
Tous crins
Hi Lorriee,

There are more articles on Julep there and it is full of pictures. One other of Julep but many of the descendants. I will scan some later.

Christine
Tous crins
here is the other picture of Julep, taken at La Rue. t is very small and fuzzy. p127 Arabiana
Click to view attachment

The picture posted previously showing him in old age is also in this book and the photographer or person who gave the photo was "Red" Beyer. (p185)
Clothilde
Hi girls,
just have a look on the first picture posted and the one i will post of a double Julep,
amazing??
Pictures are from the Cheryl O Donnel website.!
carol
So LMG since Astraled never set hoof in Egypt..Going by the rules of the purer then pure Se ..Could then Nazeer and the other horses be cancelled out as Pure Se then???
Guest_LMG_*
Hello, Carol:

Since the Blunt bred horses, saved many a breeding program all over the world,
(See: The Crabbet Arabian Stud, It's History and Influence, Archer, Pearson, Covey, 1978, 1994, 2002), it is difficult, IMO, to call any arabian horses (with some exception) pure (plug in any site of origin you want) such and such.

But, that does not mean, when it comes to creating a classification based on origin, that one cannot create any criteria which one wants to make a breeding pool of animals. The problems come, when it comes to exceptions and exclusions, where does one draw the line, especially when a extremely important original source horse was never in the country of the classification.

The closest one can come, IMO, is to classify horses in which all the progenitors can reasonably be authenticated to come from regions of the desert which are recognizable areas of Asil breeding.

I do not want this to become a thread where this issue is again re-agrued with or without supporting facts, but to merely suggest that when it comes to the question of where one goes for outcrosses (?) to a group of horses which are becoming more and more inbred, that there are sources, still in the US, which contain Egyptian Arabian Blood which did not come the RAS or the EAO, such as *Aziza.

LMG
Guest_LMG_*
Correction: That should be "re-argued" in the previous post.

LMG
Aimbri
Thank you SO much for the information on Julep. When I saw the name, I KNEW he was in the pedigree of my mare, Sor Azal Elite. She is NOT a SE, but is a beautiful mare and has produced well. She has ALWAYS been bred to SE stallions. I spent much of the afternoon sifting through old papers till I finally came up with her extended pedigree and saw that she is, indeed, a great-great granddaughter to Julep(on her sire's side). She also has several crosses to Abu Farwa (on her Dam's side). It was so interesting to read this information. Thank you.

Jeannette
MAXHOPEMIME
Clothilde,
That's a wonderful picture! Could you tell me Cheryl's web address?
I would love to find out more about her horses.

Thanks and have a grand day!
Chris
Guest_LMG_*
And people say research isn't fun! As long as we cite our references, we can have a good time.

LMG
anitae
Christine, it is DU MIsty Gem, bred by Dan Ulm. Dan has used WR Brown-import horses in his program, both sire line through Julep and through Jusera.
Dan originally bought Jusera from the Babson Farm (her breeders), and got her first 7 foals. Then the O'Donnells bought her from Dan and Jusera had 9 more. A truly amazing mom (and no small tribute to these two breeders). O'Donnells have pics at:

http://www.babsonarabians.com/z/HiddenRiver.htm

use the links off the front page (some of the internal links appear to be broken)

Anita
Georgia
Here's the pedigree of my stallion Aarafic (Ibn Morafic x Ajoi) No Julep, but some of the same good old breeding. Not a SE, but would like to hear anyones opinion on what is not SE. I also have a question as to SE status of Gulastra and Hallany Mistanny, was there ever a time they were not considered SE and then allowed?
I don't seem to remember when I purchased this guy 27 years ago that they were SE and now I am reading that they are. Just curious.

Georgia
Georgia
Whoops, huh.gif here's the pedigree of Aarafic aka "Moses"

Georgia
Georgia
Whoops, huh.gif here's the pedigree of Aarafic aka "Moses"

Georgia
Tous crins
Hi Georgia,

You need to buy ARABIANA. There are pictures of ALL those ancetors in there.
BINIS, ISLAM, BINNI, HALLANY MISTANNY, BINT GULASTRA. And articles discussing their pedigree and characteristics!!!
I paid 30$ I think and I saw it is still available.

Christine
Georgia
QUOTE (Tous crins @ Mar 20 2006, 03:34 AM)
Hi Georgia,

You need to buy ARABIANA. There are pictures of ALL those ancetors in there.
BINIS, ISLAM,  BINNI, HALLANY MISTANNY, BINT GULASTRA. And articles discussing their pedigree and characteristics!!!
I paid 30$ I think and I saw it is still available.

Christine
*



Thanks Christine,
I didn't even know there was a book out there. Will go check out
ebay or something and see if I can find.. Thanks again Georgia
MAXHOPEMIME
Georgia,

I just LOVE that boy of Yours! Give him a hug and a carrot from me.

OH the cruel twist of time and circumstance. where are my Gulastra bred dream horses today?

Found in lots of the good to great domestic bred performence horses of today.
And sadly very few SEs.

Love that old gentleman of yours he's a treasure!

biggrin.gif Chris
Guest_LMG_*
Joja:

I can't read that pedigree, probably has something to do with the colors. Can you do it again.

LMG
Guest_LMG_*
I don't think Hallany Mistanny could be considered anything but Egyptian with *Zarife as his sire and *Roda as his dam. But, Gulastra certainly could be questioned. *Aziza is his dam, and she definitely is Egyptian, but what do we do with his sire, *Astraled.

If we say *Astraled was not Egyptian, was never there and never bred any horses there, what does that do to all the SE's today who have multiple lines to *Astraled? I'm sure these has been talked about till everyone is blue in the face.
But since the Pyramid Society, made up their own criteria for what is and is not SE, and they can do so, they had to stretch the definition to encompass Gulastra or throw *Astraled out all together.

IMO, there may several horses who could be thrown out of the definition, but to toss *Astraled out of the definition of that which is SE, may result in very few contemporary horses which could be defined as SE.

Classifications which are based upon scientific investigation are one thing, breeding groups with man-made criteria are another, and as they are man made, man can include and man can exclude.

LMG
Georgia
QUOTE (Guest_LMG_* @ Mar 20 2006, 04:16 AM)
Joja:

I can't read that pedigree, probably has something to do with the colors.  Can you do it again.

LMG
*


I will try and find the original.. I posted one that had been resized, will try the larger version if I can find.. I'm not very good at this stuff.

joja (aka Georgia)
Georgia
Very interesting Lorriee,
I can remember specifically the person involved with my stallion, saying Gulastra was not SE and I do remember writing Pyrimid Soc at the time, I was told that his dam side was not SE, but never what part was not SE or that any was. I wish I still had that letter, would be very interesting to review in this thread.

Thanks Chris on your kind remarks.. there aren't many like him and I have enjoyed having him in my life the past 27 of his 28 years.

Trying pedigree again.. maybe will be larger.

Georgia
Guest_LMG_*
I'm in error re the dam of Gulastra, *Aziza is the dam of Julep and Gulnare is the dam of Gulastra, I've Julep on the brain. It would be similarly difficult to not find Gulnare within the definition of the Pyramid's Society of SE.

Gulnare's sire is *Rodan, he by Harb and out of *Rose of Sharon and her dam is *Ghazala, she by Ibn Sherara and out of Bint Helwa. Harb was by Mesaoud and out of Bint Helwa who was by Aziz (RAS) and out of Helwa (Egypt)

*Rose of Sharon is is the dam of Ridaa, and Ridaa the dam of Rustem, found over and over in SE blood lines.

*Ghazala AHA 211 also came directly to the US, but is also found over and over in SE pedigrees .

So, IMO, straight egyptian horses owe as much to the Blunt's breeding of arabian horses as to breeding stock which arose solely in Egypt, especially the horses which were imported in the 1950's through out the 1960's and 1970's.

But, before some get hysterical, I want to again state, that a breeding pool of horses can be designated by criteria which is set by the one or more people who wish to limit the horses in the pool.

LMG
Tous crins
Here is one more page - p36 from ARABIANA
not sure if this will be clear enough

Click to view attachment
Tous crins
This is the text in the middle of p 36

"ANCESTORS OF GULASTRA

Pictured here are the only likenesses we have of the ancestors of famous GUL-ASTRA and we start with his dam, GULNARE, a 3/4 Egyptian and 1/4 Blunt. Below her is a very weak picture of the lovely *GHAZALA, a straight Egyptian by Ibn Sherara II x Bint Helwa. Then comes Gulnare’s sire, *Rodan
by Harb x * Rose of Sharon with the latter following, she being a straight Blunt by Hadban x Rodania. Then comes HADBAN (Rabdan XTarfa) a sire of lengthy necks.
On the opposite side we have the sire of Gulastra, the famous *Astraled, imported by F. Lothrop Ames in 1909, a Blue List with 1/4 Mu’niqi blood. For those who follow the “Blue Catalogue” all the ancestors of Gulastra are either Blue List or BLUE STAR. ROSE OF SHARON and RODANIA are Blue Star.
Below *Astraled is the equally as famous MESAOUD, a straight Egyptian and a Blue Star and former premier stallion at Crabbet.
Then comes the dam of *Astraled, the lovely QUEEN OF SHEBA, a Blunt Blue List that was half Mu’niqi and then comes HELWA followed by her daughter, BINT HELWA an Egyptian Blue Star. The picture was taken several years after her accident and does not depict her true conformation.
The photo in the center bottom Is a painting, as is evident, of the great progenitor ZOBEYNI You will find that very many of the ancestors of Gulastra trace back to him!"
Tous crins
PART OF P37 AND 38

"

For those that are not familiar with GULASTRA’s pedigree we give, herewith, that of his sire and his dam for easy reference
*ASTRALED, sire of GULASTRA, was bred at Crabbet Arabian Stud in England and imported into the United States by F. Lothrop Ames of Boston in 1909 but not before he had created a tremendous impact across the Atlantic in that country’s pedi-grees. From there the influence extends to practically all the Arabian horse breeding nations of the world. More often than not his name is repeated in multiples as it hops, skips and jumps throughout the world, and a case in point is Egypt where *ASTRALED Sons have been doubled up in the pedigrees of some of their best horses.
The Blunts of Crabbet must have held him in high esteem as they used him for ‘the birdie’ in inbreeding and intense line breeding, having bred his own sires’ daughters, and even then ‘doubled’ In other parts of the pedigree. Of ôourse *ASTRALED~s sire MES-AOUD himself, was his own ‘birdie’ in many cases, but in the case of both fore and aft they have proved successful as the lines have bred on as is evidenced throughout the world in some truly magnificent individuals.

Before leaving Crabbet in England ASTRALED sired seventeen foals. Probably the most influential was SOTAMM, who dominates the line in Egyptian pedigrees and this was so, also, for his son, RUSTEM. However, in England, SOTAMM sired NAUFAL who got RIFFAL, the sire of ORAN. It is interesting that ORAN shows two crosses to MESAOUD and three to *ASTRALED in the fourth generation. ORAN was amongst the best of Lady Wentworth’s (daughter of the Blunts) stallions at Crabbet.
In America *SILVER VANITY, ROYAL DIA-MOND and the great National Champion perfor-mance horse, ORAN VAN CRABBET, was by him as well as a grandson, *ROYAL CONSTELLATION, his sire being GRAND ROYAL (England). There are other sire lines to ASTRALED in England, but too lengthy to go into here.
In America ASTRALED sired two foals in the east (one mare and a horse that was gelded,) in 1913 and 1915 respectively and then went west where he was in Oregon and Idaho until 1923 when W. R. Brown brought him to Maynesboro. He sired no purebred foals during this time. There he got three foals, the last being GULASTRA, as he died apparently that year. Often I have wondered If fate had not taken a hand and ASTRALED could have bred some of the Brown mares (most of which were very good for that day). For a few years what this influence would have been to the American Arabian horse. Monumental I would guess — if he did any-where near as well as he did in England and Egypt (here through his sons).

Before leaving ASTRALED I would like to make a last comment. *ASTRALED was said to be the best stallion In America at the time of his importation. How about after that time? A study of all available pictures show him to be a very clean made horse with a good reachy neck with a light throat latch and the head set on very well. It is hard to define his head from the pictures I have seen but it looks to be clean, breedy and ARABIAN! His body and quarters look like quality with an excellent top line even at the age of twenty-two. He showed good withers and a fine croup. To me *ASTRALED looked like a horseman’s horse and that Is more than one can say for some of the later importations. A point I failed to mention Is that his legs look clean and unblemished at the age of twenty-two and they were straight — a failing of many horses of that day.

The sire of *ASTRALED, MESAOUD, has been probably the most cussed and discussed horse in Arabian circles so there is not too much purpose for going into his story too deeply. However, briefly and for the benefit of new Arabian fans, we will give him a short run down. He was bred by All Pasha Sharif of Egypt and is a great-grandson of the forever world’s famous ZOBEYNI that was bred in Arabia and imported into Egypt by the ruling Pasha Abbas I. Many who extol the virtues of certain horses will count lines to MESAOUD. One should try counting these lines to ZOBEYNI! In some cases it will run into the hundreds and possibly in the near future one will be’ counting into the thousands. I have quit counting on some of my horses as it runs past where I know how to count. Anyway the Blunts purchased MESAOUD and subsequently brought him to their stud in England where he became a dominant factor in Crabbet pedigrees, which, of course, made its way around the world. He was sold to Russia at what is said to be a fabulous price.

QUEEN OF SHEBA, the great and famous dam of *ASTRALED, became one of the most important mares at Crabbet and one of the best contributers to the male line of MESAOUD. She also did well with AZREK too, as the result of this was AHMAR. Interesting is that both ASTRALED and AHMAR did create trotting lines of excellence which is much in evidence in the United States. In the case of the former this trait is carried on through GULASTRA. ASFURA, full sister to AHMAR, did her part in this respect too.
Lady Anne Blunt describes the QUEEN thusly after seeing her in the Arabian desert: “She is a dark bay with four white socks, star and snip, standing well over fifteen hands. Her head, the first point an Arab looks to, is a good one though I’ve seen finer and perfectly set on, and the mitbah or join of the head and neck would give distinction to any profile. Her neck is light and well arched, the withers high and shoulders well sloped, and the quarters so fine and powerful that it is impossible that she be anything but a very fast mare. Her length of limb above the hock is remarkable as is that of her pastern. She carries her tail high as all well-bred Arabs do, and there is a neatness and finish about every movement which reminds one of a fawn or gazelle. We all agreed that she is incomparably superior to anything we have seen here or elsewhere and would be worth a king’s ransom if kings were still worth ransoming”. Lady Wentworth, in speaking of the QUEEN, said: “to have had unusually good action.” This is of interest to me and we will get into it later when we get to GULASTRA and the trot.
Be as it may the QUEEN OF SHEBA was a power-ful influence in the Arabians of America through GULASTRA and especially when multiplied through multiple lines to him and from other sources.
Welt, there you have a short run-down on “from the best blood that produces better than himself” where it concerns the sire line of GULASTRA. Much time was spent in reference to *ASTRALED but I think he deserves it as there is not much doubt but that he was in fact one of the best sons of MES-AOUD — with the help of the QUEEN, of course!
The next installment will go into “best blood” where it concerns GULASTRA’s dam line, and then on to GULASTRA himself.
Please note that no reference to family strains, et cetera, has been made as I feel that it really is of little consequence in this day and age and would only tend to confuse the Arabian fans in general. However, in some books such as those written by Carl Raswan and others, there is much along these lines for those that are interested. If any, there would be rare cases where horses were bred in a certain family strain because as far as strains go they are pretty much ‘chop suey’ now."
Guest_LMG_*
Thank you Christine. I'm sure there are many who find this information about *Astraled and his descendants very ilnteresting and enlightening.

LMG
Clothilde
Hi all,
Hey Chris, you too like the babsons/browns??!
do you know the south springs arabians website, there are interesting horses too:
SS Arabians

Hope we could have more pics of babson/brown horses, i am looking for them, feel free to contact me if you have some!

have a great day
Clo
Tous crins
Well, I flipped through that book a few month ago when visiting friends and saw all those pictures and articles. My horses have quite a lot of Gulastra on the non-egyptian part of their pedigree.
My mare is the one who gave me "arabitis" and I study anything related to her. I am learning. Very happy with this book. There are also articles on Morafic, the horses of Valerie Noli Marais in S Africa, the Bahreini horses - beautiful individuals.
Articles on Hallany Mistanni etc.

I received a tape from Sheila Harmon where Doyle horses (Gulastra) are mixed with Prtizlaff etc and I really like the powerful movement and rear-end.
I need to see more to see if those are exceptions or not.

I like to read from all sources and see with my own eyes.

Until a few weeks ago, Gulastra was just a name for me and a few pictures.

Christine
Georgia
OK, I'm really getting into ready this thread since it's so close to home.

My boy Aarafic "Moses" I know his sire Ibn Morafic is SE.
His dam "Ajoi" is by Binis and out of Hallanys Tande
Binis is by Islam (Gulastra x Nafud) out of Binni (Gulastra x Habiba) tf Bint Helwa
so we know Gulastra is SE
Nafud is by (Nejal x Hazna) tf Bint Helwa
Nejal is by Rehal x Larkspur
I'm thinking the questionable blood?? is from Larkspur (Abu Zeyd x Onrust)
I think I read something at one time.. help me out on this one... but not sure.
Binni's dam Habiba also crosses to Larkspur as Habiba dam is Nafud by Bazleyd

So we have Binis, pure in the strain at least 2 generation via Bint Helwa (sire and dam)
and all 4 grandparents tf Bint Helwa.
Moses granddam Hallanys Tande is by Halllany Mistanny, which we know is SE
out of Bint Gulastra (Gulastra x Habiba) tf Bint Helwa
*** and they say we inbred today!!!!!!*****

Is Bazleyd 1928 (Abu Zeyd x Bazrah) found in SE pedigrees?
if so that leaves Nafud that I'd love to know her history. If not, then that leaves
Bazleyd and Nafud I'd love to know more about.

Ok, I still get weak in the knees looking at these lines and he's out in my backyard. ha! tongue.gif

Thanks for any information or thoughts.. I think I have everything correct if you can follow and not go cross-eyed. blink.gif

Georgia
heidip
Abu Zeyd is listed as Egyptian bred, SO, AK

Bazleyd
Tous crins
if so that leaves Nafud that I'd love to know her history. If not, then that leaves

Hi Georgia,

I received a whole box of AHW from the early 70s from the same friend who showed me ARABIANA. I was flipping through them and I know somewhere there was an article on her with pictures as an aged mare. I will dig it out.

Ok this is from Arabiana
Click to view attachment

and here is the legend - p68
NAFUD, a bay Seglawleh Jedranieh mare, 14.1, by Nejal (by Rehal ex Larkspur) and out of *Hazna by Razaz ex Ramasa, 6th dam GHAZIEH.~ a desert bred Seglawieh Jedranieh mare of the strain of lbn Sudan of the Roala tribe. Nafud was a prize winner In class for weanling fillies at the Tennessee State Fair with all competition being older, larger and “saddle bred”. Photo Is from Travelers Rest catalogue. Foal is Habiba. Nafud is the dam of ISLAM. Habiba is dam of Binni the dam of Binis."

"
Tous crins
here is Aarafic's dam's pedigree

Click to view attachment
Georgia
Thanks so much for the photos Christine and Heidiup

So good to see Nafud and really nice to see Habiba as a foal.

Sorry, LMG for all the questions on my stallions mare line, but I think we are a hair or a fine line from being SE, but I wouldn't change a thing and he probably has more Ali Pasha Sherif blood in his veins than most.
But, it would have been nice if he were and could have met up with some of your
Julep blood. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Georgia


My favorite pictures of Moses.. he was 24 in this photo
Tous crins
Hi Goergia,

He looks so nice on those pictures. You know what? All those ancestors on his dam line seem to live in their thirties!!!!
I haven't found that article to Nafud yet. I am pretty sure it is her and a tribute for her life and descendants at a very ripe old age.
It might take some time but when I find it I will post it or e-mail it to you.

Christine
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