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With all the topics that have recently brought up those SE who are ridden I am truely wondering just what is an honest opinion as to why we don't see nearly as many as we did like in the past. I would like to know if it is true what some say that ..." SE are becomming garden ornaments ...." just pretty to look at but can't be ridden"... Now I don't want to open a new argument but I just wonder what is the true reasons behind this. I myself am intending to break in a SE filly over winter in the next few weeks with the intention to perhaps put her into the show ring, just for fun I might add, as well as to fly the flag for our beloved SE. Now one of the hurdles I feel I will have to over come is the financial out lay this will cost me and wonder if this could also be one of reason why others don't show under saddle. Another point I would like to bring up is the financial out lay to aquire the SE in the first place and are we just in too much of a hurry to breed so as to get some return on this. Might I add that my breeder that I purchased my filly from thought I should breed my filly this season so as to get some of my out lay back. So if this is the advice we are given by others, and we follow this ,could this also contribute to the problem why SE have such a bad name today regarding not being a suitable riding horse. Now please I would like to hear honest opinions.
As I was getting into arabians and started developing an interest in the SE's I lost count of the times people told me oh they are not good you can't ride them (Tasmania in the 90's was very crabbet orientated!!) !!

I was always determined that when I owned one it would be ridden but now I don't ride much if at all and I can't really afford to send him away to be ridden by someone else, that and I have issues trusting anyone with him because I would hate his beautiful nature to be ruined. If I find the right person and had the $$ spare I would have him out under saddle in a heartbeat.
As a newbie ot the arabian world, I seriously can't understand why a breed like this, which was originally intended for riding, has become so beauty driven. I think it is due to the level of respect a horse recieves for winning halter, as compared to performance. If a horse wins in halter (at least here) it becomes a sought after horse, while the horses who won in the few performance classes remain nameless. Why bother training a horse to ride and spend the money on showing when it means little to nothing in the eyes of the public?
For example the world championship in Paris, I assume there are no performance classes there, since in every article I have read about it, there was no mention. Yet the horses that won the championships in halter are considered "amazing and talented" but who knows if they are even saddle broke?
Wouldn't you buy a stallion that had won in Paris over a stallion that was a great ride, but had not competed? assuming they were the same price of course...
Just my thoughts!!!
Hi Deby

If the Paris champion was a good sound horse and the same price as the ridden horse "in a heartbeat, no need to even stop and think". Why would I want a less good loking horse if there was no reason why the Paris horse should not make a riding horse. I am sure there are a lot of SEs who have never been ridden but would make really good riding horses if given the chance.

thats exactly my point! Everybody complains about how SEs are no longer performance horses, but no one is buying for performance horses, they are buying for a horse with HALTER winning bloodlines then hope that it will be a good ridding horse. If we are so worried about losing the performance ability of the breed, shouldn't it be the other way around? Buying a performance horse then hopefully, it could win in halter as well?
It was such a shock to me when I started working with the SEs, that riding is one of the least important things. To me a horse not under saddle is somewhat a waste, to the horse and owner. I understand there are circumstances where it is not possible and I am certainly not trying to offend those who don't ride thier horses, but if you have the means, why not do it?

added: And by riding I'm not talking about showing, I personally can't stand it, I'm talking about challenging your horse mental and physically to see how it responds, not to mention its always fun to challenge your own skills as a rider.
You really cannot tell how suitable a horse is for riding unless a) get your hands on it and look at it from every angle you can think of, and cool.gif ride it.
A judges opnion is based on an impression over a couple of minutes - think about the difference between this and a veterinary exam, which takes 20-60 minutes. A vet exam takes this long because the vet needs to tell you whether a horse is SOUND and if it will be SUITABLE FOR THE TASK you expect it to perform. So what does this tell you about show ring results, or the way we pick stallions for our mares???

In addition, just because a horse has a "good temperament" on the ground does not mean it will be the same under saddle, out of it's comfort zone. I have had horses halter tranined, conditioned, gone to shows, on and off trailers no problem, that react quite differently under saddle.... those that think they can tell you 100% what a horse will be like under saddle, from the viewpoint of the ground, obviously do not ride much.

Let's face it, most of us base our breeding decisions on a few minutes of looking at a horse either from a photo, video, or distance of 20 metres. Few of us bother to delve into the nitty gritty of conformation much past the standard basic texts within general horse encyclopedias.

Yes sure, some of these "2 minutes of 2 dimensional assessment" horses will make okay riding horses if given a chance, but just as many won't.
Unfortanately, the market seems to be largely driven by people who want a pretty horse with a flashy trot and "snort and blow" for halter - that's where the money is. As long as there are shows, Arabians will continue to be bred by the aforementioned "2 by 2" method.

In my perfect world the Arabians would be the best saddle horse in the world and bred accordingly by knowledgable people with excellent horsemanship skills... but apparently I am in the minority and seen as a bit of a party pooper. ph34r.gif
DEar JMO, you better believe it, this is very bad advice.

Indeed it is costly to show, promote, but this goes for any business.

the large breeders with names do have the finances, so there is no excuse other than that they might not have the horses which can do anything, other than promoting names, and nothing else, resting on the loralls won decades ago.

Therefore my dear, enjoy this SE you have, who knows you might just have a supreme one, which you will find out when under saddle. If this is the case, take it all the way to the top. It is possible that some welknown breeders really dont know a good horse, if they see it and sometimes discard their best.
And there is where the expert comes in, picking it up.

Good luck
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Imhotep Arabians
Good morning to all,

I personally believe that the halter horses of today can be ridden and probablly do at some time. Maybe not all go back to the shows.
I enjoy watching the halter horses at the Egyptian Event, it is a chance to see what is out there for the future. Some are what I like and some are not but I think they are all capable of being ridden at some point.
I have a stallion that unfortunately I have not ridden in a couple of years due back problems but he can be ridden, I have and he is straight egyptian and has been at the Egyptian event in a halter class. It was a great experience to watch my friend take him into the ring but, the next time he goes there, he will be under saddle for sure.
My point is I believe that if a horse has the conformation, whether shown in halter classes or not, it is more than capable of being ridden. Also, a good deal of the halter horses are very young and are not ready to be ridden. I think that the older ones probablly are when they are back home to help with boredom and for exercise.

Imhotep Arabians
Claudia, I completely agree wtih you. I find this notion that halter horses could not be ridden artificial, not based on facts and ridiculous.
I think that people confuse a horse that, through no fault of its own, is perhaps not ridden, with one that CANNOT be ridden. I myself belong to the category of ageing women who used to ride much but now lack the energy and time. That is not to say that the horses I own cannot be ridden. They can, and sometimes they are, certainly the male horses once they reach that age.
Alao,I have seen the grossest allegations that some stallions would not even be broken to saddle, that I have seen ridden with my own eyes. So clearly that allegation was untruthful to say the least. Sometimes, there is a huge difference between what is believed and what is a fact.
weither money is an issue or not, some people just don't like showing. I do not like showing in large rated shows, there is just too much pressure and I have seen people take it too far too many times to enjoy it anymore. Even as a child, I had my saddle sliced with a razor at a dressage show, had my best friends horse get drugged, seen people send children through the barns with whips to scared the western horse... I just don't want to deal with it.
But, put a schooling show or an open show near me and I'll be begging people to let me show thier horses... and how many schooling show wins do you have in your lists of stallions winnings?

Humans own horses for pleasure, if your pleasure is showing and mine is trail riding, how does that make any of our horses less desirable? And if another owners pleasure is halter, then who are we to judge?
And it is definatly really nice to watch the halter classes, I enjoy it too, but I personally would rather be in the saddle then on the ground, but to each his own!~*~deby~*~
there are different types of Arabians... some will ride differently to others however - temperament under saddle ie acceptance of the saddle, then the saddle and rider can only come from hands-on experience. Some Arabians these days are just not making the cut for ridden temperament ie they are not safe to be ridden. And I feel akin to being the last one to consider this prospect as I do believe that Arabians are one of the better saddle horse breeds regardless of their tag/label. There shouldn't be a difference between halter and saddle prospect. The ones which haven't made the grade that I'm familiar with have a number of famous halter bloodlines. sad.gif

And I'd agree - expense these days is prohibitive for the show ring when the budget is tight.
photo : by me, my friend riding my sE stallion in open dressage. Her smile after this halt was magical smile.gif
I think the question is not that the horses can't be ridden, but that many people who own them don't ride and this is for all sorts of reasons. Some of us rode both in shows and for pleasure when young, but there is a point when age, dictates discretion.

Some have taken up the ownership of Arabians, later in life, when they have been able to do that which they have always wnated to do, that is to own an Arabian, and they do not at this stage of their life take up the physical demands (and potential injuries) of learning to ride.

Some owners do not know who to contact or how to search out someone who has training, education and experience in training a horse (and ethical standards).

If fact, this would be a good opportunity to put forward experiences (good and successful) with having your horse trained and returned to you as a willing and safe riding horse.

IMO It is very difficult to evaluate whether ANY horse shown in halter would be a good riding horse (at least if shown in halter in the US). Certainly you can identify those with faults (post legs and pasterns with no flex) that would make bad rides. But, aside from the issue of temperment (and I agree with guest that you can't tell how they will respond to being ridden until you ride them), you never see the natural movement of the horse during halter classes. So how could you ever evaluate how they would be as riding horses? Going from the German masters in dressage, the role of the trainer/rider is to bring out the natural brilliance and develop the gaits of the horse. In the halter classes, the NATURAL GAITS are never seen. Horses are yanked and shanked for outrageous trots with their noses in the air. You rarely see a natural walk. The horses are never shown at the canter - which is historically the MOST important gait. Sheeshh. At least in the Shagya certification system they free longe the horses at all gaits.

(who will now get off her soap box and back on a horse)
Funny you should mention the canter. Our colt by Kazmeen out of RG Iris goes directly into canter from a walk when he wants to play. No trot at all just a great cavorting canter that just eats distance. Oh, he can trot, just does seem to prefer the canter interspersed with bursts of unbelievable speed. He approaches the fence panels of the arena at frightening speed and always stops within two strides and has never ever slammed into them even when the clay footing turns slick in the rain. Always seems to judge it correctly.
The canter is easy and relaxed and will be a pleasure to ride. He is still immature at 4 so I will not put any weight on him until his growth plates close. If he is like his half sister he won't stop growing until he is at least 8.
You have to stop by and see him one of these days. Pritzlaff with the line to Ansata El Salim the Grow's ( Rafter G) horse of so long ago.
A majority of our SE horses, mares and stallions, are started under saddle. SOME CAME THAT WAY HERE! We have a small group here also to be prepared for ground work and light saddle work. All are at various levels of learning. The two new SE mares due to arrive here, have professional training with a top reiner - one has the potential, the other does not as a reining horse even though they are half sisters and very similiar in phenotype...

Part of owning horses, for me anyways, is experiencing that glorious impatience to get on their back and see what kind of [potential] "goodies" they have to offer. I agree, you can not totally judge what a horse will feel like, move like and THINK like undersaddle until you sit on them and ask them to perform maneuvers, even the most basic. Others may have the natural ability for certain disciplines but no desire to perform that discipline, too.

There are still excellent performance trainers out there. Since I have delved into the costs between a professional halter trainer and a few professional, high level winning Reining Trainers, I can assure you that the cost of the Reining trainers either matches or is LOWER than the halter trainer! Good performance trainers and riders also seem more prone to be careful how they shoe or trim their horses so as not to inhibit their movement.

Athletic and beautiful - I agree. A performance horse should be capable of also competing in halter - example, AMIIN (working cow horse) does and I have seen it with my own eyes!

I do not "buy" the explanation that I have read and heard: That it is cheaper to send a horse for halter training than for performance training - if you are willing to learn and continue to ride, that is. I understand many circumstances that may also not allow for a person to ride or finances to send them out for training, etc. Yet, with the money issue aside, I have met and talked with people who can't or no longer ride and they still send their horses to good performance trainers and promote them that way.

What people do with their horses is their perogative. However, I am tired of the SE getting the undeserved reputation of not being able to perform. Put them out there with a good trainer for a riding discipline, and your PR begins! Word of mouth does more than fancy advertisements...

My honest thoughts on this... smile.gif
Sheila Bautz
Come to think of it, the SE horses that came here, from a couple different owners, were NOT particularly SE people. They did not even give it a second thought that by the age of 4, to have the horses started undersaddle. They saw them as horses first.

One mare, who has been with us for over a year, was started both western and english because her owner sent her to a trainer. The two new ones due to arrive - their owner is also into QHs, and never blinked an eye to send the mares for training as soon as they were four - that owner, no longer rides much, by the way!

I never thought twice about having my horses saddle trained in the past either. I was counting the days down before I could send them out to a good trainer. Then, Curtis came along, and he now starts our horses and, in a couple of weeks, I get on and ride them also - under his direction when needed. The professionals will be the next step for specific disciplines here.

Sheila Bautz
It seems to me, that Arabian horse owners and breeders have given the rest of the horse world the impression that the Arabian cannot be a performance horse by having placed such an emphasis on the halter horse.

And we all know that the training business will follow where owner demand leads them. Besides, it is a lot less effort and much more lucrative for person to be a halter handler than to be a performance horse trainer, so one cannot blame the professional trainers.

I know that there are some very fine reining horse trainers and working cow horse trainers who have made a partial cross-over from the quarter horse world.

I found, in the past, that I preferred my horses to be trained by these cross-over trainers, than to send a horse to an "Arabian Horse Named Trainer" and find a horse that I broke out, being ridden not by the trainer, but by a youngster with only arena experience. Take one of these horses out on a trail for the first time and it was "mother bar the door."

Looking for a trainer requires that one go to the trainer's facility and see what is being done with (and to the horses), get recommendations from people that are riding their horses, and don't forget there are colleges and university programs which have equine programs who have young people with good horse experience. Remember, Sheila Varian attended Cal Poly in California, and she was and is still one of the performance lights of the Arabian Horse Industry.

Thanks for every ones imput. So from what I can read thus far some two factors come into play regarding a saddle career first $$ to achieve this and secondly finding some one you can trust to send your horse to. I will say that I have made a few enquiries about the cost of saddle training and was rather surprised as to just how cost effective it really is compare to sending a horse for halter training. I also think in the long run you can also enjoy your horse in a different way after saddle training. One thing I have to mention here is that I have had to look out side of the Arabian business to find someone who is able to get a horse started under saddle for me. I think maybe there lies one problem for it seems there are very few people involved with Arabians today to send a horse to start a saddle career however one can find several people who advertise to halter train a horse. Any way I have decided to get my horse broken in and with fingers crossed we will be out competing this show season. smile.gif
QUOTE (JMO @ May 21 2006, 04:04 AM)
Thanks for every ones imput. So from what I can read thus far some two factors come into play regarding a saddle career first $$ to achieve this and  secondly finding some one you can trust to send your horse to.  I will say that I have made a few enquiries about the cost of saddle training and was rather surprised as to just how cost effective it really is compare to sending a horse for halter training.  I also think in the long run you can also enjoy your horse in a different way after saddle training. One thing I have to mention here is that I have had to look out side of the Arabian business to find someone who is able to get a horse started under saddle for me. I think maybe there lies one problem for it seems there are very few people involved with Arabians today to send a horse to start a saddle career however one can find several people who advertise to halter train a horse. Any way I have decided to get my horse broken in and with fingers crossed we will be out competing this show season. smile.gif

JMO through my own experiences, I do ot agree with what you are saying. Having had experience in sending horses away for both Halter and performance training, I have found halter training to be almost half of the cost of saddle training, as it should be, as far more work goes into the saddle training, I used to send my horses all the time for saddle training but I am not working now so can no longer afford it.

I know performance trainers that charge up to $700 per week in show season for a performance horse. The most halter has ever cost me has been and average of $300 per week in show season.

Perhaps to have a horse broken in is quite reasonable but further training is exremely costly, thi sis why many peole donot do it unless they can ride themselves, which I no longer can due to age and injury. sad.gif
Well all I can say is thank God I don't live where you live. I just had a quick look through one of our magazines and on average they advertise halter starting at around $ 150pw upwards and saddle starts a bit higher. I have heard that it cost around $270pw to send a horse to one of the best in the industry in Aust. for halter training & that figure also comes close to a top Saddle training centre over here during the show season.Thank goodness this falls well short of your $700pw you have to pay and no wonder at that sum no one wants to go down that road. huh.gif
Sometimes people need to think outside of the square - there are plenty of horseloving teenagers who are very capable of taking on a young horse and getting him or her going for low level eventing, dressage, endurance, hacking, hunting - I was once of of those kids and I rode Arabians for the love of it, for free!!! What better advertisement is there than an Arabians which a young person can enjoy? All you need to do is provide the gear, the transport, entry fees and support, and you have a happy horse and two happy people.
Sorry guys but there's no excuse to not have at least one of you horses out competing. wink.gif
to the last post by guest, I am definatly one of those kids! (not really kid, but 21 counts!) and if anyone is in or around Connecticut, I am absolutely willing to start ride and show Arabians under saddle, would LOVE to do it! I just don't yet have the money to have my own yet!! And I too am a graduate of UCONN Equine science 2 year program, and am completing the 4 year program this year!
I once hired a young woman from Cal Poly who came out of their agricultural program. She sent out 150 resumes and I was the only one who answer. I hired her and she worked for me for several years and was an absolute jewel.

What wasn't so wonderful, was how other horse owners and breeders, then tried to hire her away after she had put in her time managing and showing for me.

These young people deserve a chance and they, especially the girls and young woman, give 100 per cent, for love of the horses. And, they likely will be the trainers of tomorrow.

Just got back from a reining clinic taught by our Canadian 1/2 Arabian Reining Champion.... We are very pleased and excited, so I wanted to share a positive experience as was encouraged earlier in this thread!!

Curtis took our SE stallion who he started himself, and after four hours over the weekend, we are hooked so bad that it is good! Curtis also recieved excellent feed back, tips and advice, and encouragement to continue on with this young stallions training himself! The trainer also agreed that he and I could come one weekend with our "reining prospects" and learn more riding and training tips.

It was the best $140.00 we could have spent. We both learned so many great tips to improve. By this afternoon, you could see how these tips transformed our SE stallion already! There was interest in our young stallion, but some mistook him for a gelding at first because of his temperment and manners. He is a very laid back gentleman, but I assure you, his "plumbing" for his main "pipe" is in tact! wink.gif

An added bonus is my sense of pride [a sin, I know rolleyes.gif - and at the risk of "bragging"] because I consider myself a "backyard" breeder, in the sense that we have no fancy facilities or big money backing us up. None the less - "It looks like I bred me my first reining horse!!!!" This young stallion is the very first SE horse I bred and raised, and his lines are old new SE lines - not of the modern "fashion". Structurally and "mentally", the ingredients for a reining career are indeed there for him...

Both Curtis and I come from very humble means as children, so this weekend left us feeling a sense of dream like accomplishment. The trainer also gave Curtis advice to enter one reining training class at the up coming show, and a couple western pleasure classes with this stallion - and continue to build from there at a reasonable pace to ensure no short cuts are taken. Yet - Even if we never make it to the "big league" for whatever reason, I still feel we have made it in another sense!

For those who are able to do performance: You don't need a fancy set up, a load of money, hired help... What I feel you need is an open mind and a willingness to learn always, and at times, a clenched jaw and stubborn determination! laugh.gif

Sheila Bautz
Sheila...All I can say is ...YOU GO GIRL. biggrin.gif I wish you all the best with this venture and am so proud of you both for flying the flag for our SE. I'm glad that you are aiming high for this gives you a direction to go in. wink.gif At one of our most prestigious shows in Aust , The East Coast Championships, they have a new ridden class that I think only started at last years show. It's called " Young horse saddle classes " and is open to Arabians 3 & 4 years both pure and part. This I feel is a wonderful way to start and in your own level and I am hopeing to get there next year. I just had a quick look through last years programme, and some one please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't seem to find one single SE competeing under saddle any where through out the show. The last SE I can remember competing under saddle was a stallion VVF Kai and I do see a young horse by him entered last year but am not sure if he is SE. I would like to ask you all, does any one bother to watch the ridden classes at shows and if not if you knew there were SE entered would you then go and watch them to support them ?
Nadj al Nur
I ALWAYS watch the ridden classes, especially the AOTR classes and the Junior Horse classes. Love Trail classes and Dressage classes too although I see hardly any people watching Dressage .Western Pleasure and English Pleasure ( IMO ) are almost too painful to watch nowdays but still enjoy Road hack and Show Hack too. Liberty classes are great because then you get to see how the horses really move, unless they are too nervous to move well,.....have seen a lot of that, especially with young horses.
Imhotep Arabians
Good morning to all,

Thank you for your response to my thoughts.
I think that everyone has different circumstances in life that may or may not affect what they do with their horses. I became involved in arabians a bit later in life
when as you it is more difficult to find time and energy.

I do think that a stallion should be ridden at some point, if for no other reason than to give them something to do rather than look at mares all day or become bored.
I personally do what I can and unfortunately have no one to ride my stallion, however I am going to start riding him again this summer. He is a marvelous ride and I love riding him.
The best to all and enjoy your arabians however you may as they are a true blessing from God!

Imhotep Arabians
I have attended the Canadian Nationals (Royal Red) every year for the past 11 years. I try to see the purebred halter classes, a few of the part-bred classes and as many of the performance classes as I am able to.

I remember last year when Shy Gayfeen+++/ (SE Stallion by Safeen) was showing in performance. I was sitting in the stands with another SE breeder, Ede Leeson (Circle Double L) and we were cheering on Shy Gayfeen and were thrilled when he captured yet another National Top Ten title.

Several years ago I was also cheering on Hadidi when he was showing in halter, and he captured a National Top Ten. My daughter and I cheered on when Les Wagschal's daughter was showing their horses in jumping and won, I believe, a Reserve Championship.

Every year I try to seek out the SE's, attend their classes and cheer them on. I hope that the little bit of recognition that I and a few others are able to give, encourages them on.

QUOTE (JMO @ May 22 2006, 10:38 PM)
Sheila...All I can say is ...YOU GO GIRL. biggrin.gif  I wish you all the best with this venture and am so proud of you both for flying the flag for our SE. I'm glad that you are aiming high for this gives you a direction to go in. wink.gif At one of our most prestigious shows in Aust , The East Coast Championships, they have a new ridden class that I think only started at last years show. It's called " Young horse saddle classes " and is open to Arabians 3 & 4 years both pure and part. This I feel is a wonderful way to start and in your own level and I am hopeing to get there next year...

Thanks JMO! smile.gif I too was pleasantly surprised that the Class A shows around here have the "training classes" for some disciplines, like reining. It's a great way to ease into it, gain experience for both horse and rider, expose a young horse to new things and have some fun while doing it. You let us know how you do with your horse in the future too! We're cheering you on!

Depending on a person's situation, sometimes just getting out to a clinic or talking with fellow enthusiasts and giving each other an optimistic outlook is a breath of fresh air too!

With Warm Friendship,
Sheila Bautz
QUOTE (deby @ May 18 2006, 02:09 PM)
But, put a schooling show or an open show near me and I'll be begging people to let me show thier horses... and how many schooling show wins do you have in your lists of stallions winnings?

What is a 'schooling show'? I don't think we have these in the UK - they sound nice! Or do you just mean the usual ridden disciplines such as dressage, sj, eventing, etc? Sorry to be so ignorant - I have not come across the term 'schooling show' before.
Imhotep Arabians
Hello to all

Dear Deby,

I was once one of those kids that would ride and work at a barn for not a cent just to be around the horses. I am from Connecticut and knowwhat a super program UCONN has in Equine Science. Congratulations on your accomplishments and best of luck in future endeavers.
I wish you were in Penna. I could use someone like you!!!!

Imhotep Arabians
Dear Katefox

There are several kinds. I used to put some on in Canada, had 6-8 riders doing english, and than placed them, explaining to each one why. Then called out the individuals, got up on their horse and showed them what they did wrong and how it is right. So we sometimes spent half a day doing that. We did this for many months, each weekend. then I gave them tests to complete in writing and the following week the correct answers. Each person had to pay $ 2.-, and such amount I donated to the Human Society. I still have these written tests and answers. Each sunday we then all together spent 1-2 hours learning verbally and then put it to use the following saturdy. It worked like a charm.

I believe Less Wagschal and Mr Ehrlich in Canada also held schooling shows/cinics, in english, jumping and dressage. Many a rider became a good one, and so did the horses. Less Wagschals farm was five minutes away from mine, so I often visited too and saw the good work done.

I feel that if a rider is placed down for whatever, it does not always help telling them what they did wrong, they have to see it and then correction to be shown.
It is hard to learn correction just by words. It is the practize. If you can show the rider on their horse what it looks like and the horse is doing under wrong aids etc, and then show them what to do and what it now looks like,
it is better understood and can be practized.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Hansi, you are right.

And, what you did sounds similiar to the "training classes" at the shows here, as has been explained to us.

If a rider is going to make mistakes, the BEST place to make them is in a clinic or training class. Mistakes are catalysts for improvement.

I also read what you said about Parelli on another thread, I agree. There are a lot of good things about it but also they do not show/do proper collection, etc...

I have always wanted to learn to ride english and took only a couple lessons and enjoyed them immensely... I would love to continue.

Sheila Bautz
Looking back on photos of Ibn Moniet Nefous etc I noticed that the Arabians used to be shown with flowing manes and talis. Here in Australia it has become the norm to show saddle horses plaited like English '' hacks" and was wondering every ones opnion on this. Do you prefer to see a Arabian plaited or with full mane and tail ? And does any one know if you would be penalized for not plaiting you horse ?
Hello JMO,

Our show rules books used to state that they were to be shown with a flowing mane & tail. Do not have a new rules book & so can't state that this is still current.

I have not & wil not plait my purebreds for a saddle class. I know plenty of people do, but this doesn't mean it's correct.

All the best..........Debbie
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