does anyone have a photo or info on 'hamamaa'? she is from mating 'ibn antar' (anter son) with 'hekmat' (anter daughter)....
jerel

I am very surprised that our own forum member "Abbasiyah"/Judi Parks apparently never has and/or is not now trying to make use of this grand old gentleman Glenglade Sadat!??! His sire *Zahid was a SEVEN-EIGHTHS brother to her late, great stallion *Serag; with both being sired by Anter, out of a daughter of Om El Saad, but with *Serag's dam having been the result of breeding her to Nazeer himself, while *Zahid's resulted from breeding her to Nazeer's son *Morafic. Glenglade Sadat's dam Glenglade Dahira brings in Ansata and Babson blood, both of which she has had and used in the past; with her sire having been Ansata El Naseri (Ansata Ibn Sudan x *Ansata Bint Bukra) and her dam the Straight Babson Old Egyptian mare Bint Shebaa (Fabah x Shebaa, who was Fa-Serr x Fay-Sabbah, a daughter of Fay-El-Dine and *Bint Bint Sabbah).

Although Glenglade Sadat is described as being sound, fit, and healthy despite his 29 years of age, and certainly looks to be so in the several photographs of him, I do seem tothink that I have the nagging recollection of reading somewhere on this forum that he is no longer fertile. I sincerely HOPE that that is not indeed the case, and I have tried to search through the archives here in an attempt to determine such one way or the other, but have been unsuccessful. Perhaps if his owner is monitoring this discussion they could fill us in, because he most definitely is a lovely and impressive old horse, his condition is a testimony not only to his own attributes but also to their excellent care of him, and he would still seem to have so much left to offer - if physically able to do so from a fertility standpoint - to the Egyptian Arab horse.

And to Mrs. Parks, if you don't mind telling us, HAVE you ever tried to make use of this Anter grandson, or did pedigree, conformation, great distance, or one or more other reasons keep you from trying to do so? You have been so studious and dedicated in so many of the crosses which you have performed with your horses, and, to the outsider, it would seem as though this old stallion would have/might still fit perfectly into your attempts to concentrate and preserve the Anter blood and characteristics up close. Thank you both in advance for your input.

Guest this is a funny post.

1. No one should be forced to breed to a certain stallion, even if the person favours this very bloodline.

2. Who says that the stallion pictured is a ) a good sire and b ) a quality individual? Just because of certain bloodlines a horse is not excellent in itself. Remember the full brothers of Ansata Halim Shah? They did not excell in the breeding shed.
Of course I don't say that this riungs true for Glenglade Sadat - but are you familiar with this stallion and his qualities or are you referring to the photos and his pedigree alone?

3. Where did this stallion stood at stud all the years? In the times before frozen semen it was not possible to use every stallion you woul like to incorporate into your breeding programme due to the fact that he stood thousand of miles away from your own property.

4. Bloodlines are well and good but the most important thing in breeding is that you have the mare that match with a given stallion. Perhaps such a mare wasn't there at Judi Park's farm?

Finally I wish to add I find your post very negative and unpolite and uncalled for.

Glenglade Sadat is in the care of my very good friend Chiron, so I will take the liberty of posting a reply. Sadat languished in the marginal care of a farrier, who got him from Rater G ranch along with Al SArason RSI many, many years ago when he worked for them. The horses came to southern Clifornia, where Sadat bred a good number of mares, none of whom were straight Egyptian. But he sired so very nice horses from a big variety of mares, ALL of whom were backyard riding horses.

From there he went to another friend of mine when his farrier owner becamed disabled from back problems. Sadat was 22 years old, and had not sired a foal in 11 years when Chiron took hin & Al Sarason RSI on permanent leases. In the 7 years Chiron has owned him he has been bred to several mares. Only three of those produced, foals, all colts, and all from my mares! Amir Sadat had a brief race career at Los Alamitos end w/a back injury ( was NOT properly fit & pulled a back/hip muscfle comming out of a starting gate); Naar El Sadat, who is now getting a late start under saddle, and Sadats' Espresso, who is just 3 and getting ready to go to work. I will try to post a picture of Espresso, tho' I'm not real good at this stuff. Judi & I have discussed Sadat at length several times. It is jusr one of those really sad cases of a really nice horse who sort of fell thgru the cracks back when the Arab market takned in the 80s'.

Glenglade Sadat is in the care of my very good friend Chiron, so I will take the liberty of posting a reply. Sadat languished in the marginal care of a farrier, who got him from Rater G ranch along with Al SArason RSI many, many years ago when he worked for them. The horses came to southern California, where Sadat bred a good number of mares, none of whom were straight Egyptian. But he sired some very nice horses from a big variety of mares, ALL of whom were backyard riding horses.

From there he went to another friend of mine when his farrier owner becamed disabled from back problems. Sadat was 22 years old, and had not sired a foal in 11 years when Chiron took hin & Al Sarason RSI on permanent leases. In the 7 years Chiron has owned him he has been bred to several mares. Only three of those produced, foals, all colts, and all from my mares! Amir Sadat had a brief race career at Los Alamitos end w/a back injury ( was NOT properly fit & pulled a back/hip muscfle comming out of a starting gate); Naar El Sadat, who is now getting a late start under saddle, and Sadats' Espresso, who is just 3 and getting ready to go to work. I will try to post a picture of Espresso, tho' I'm not real good at this stuff. Judi & I have discussed Sadat at length several times. It is jusr one of those really sad cases of a really nice horse who sort of fell thru the cracks back when the Arab market tanked in the 80s'.

Sandy Wilt

oops, sorry for the double post. And no photo. Oh well, perhaps Tous Crins could put up a photo or two of Espresso? Thanks in advance Christine!

Sandy

Here is Sadats Espresso at 3 - picture taken in July

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Here's the only photo of Expresso that I seem to have right now. It was taken last summer as a 2 yr old.

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Sadat is just about the sweetest thing ever. Maybe he didn't always have the best of handling but that's all forgotten & forgiven. He's always been the perfect gentleman to tease & breed. even if he's never got MY mares pregnant
He loves keeping the younger colts in line & his favorite thing is to "escape" & make the rounds talking to everyone Even the other breeding stallions don't seem to mind a visit from Sadat. He generally shares a pipe fence line with a mare with never a problem.

I started & conditioned Sandy's Sadat colt that went to the race track. Just the BEST. Even after he was getting fit & used to very fast gallops he could be riden safely anywhere at any speed in just a prayer rope (a string aound his neck)

Guest...... though your post is, in one way, very flattering to Sadat...even I find it rather presumptous of you to question Judi's (or anyone elses) use of any particular stallion.

5 times Anter with 2 times Gharib.......
this is 'DSA Hey Baby'....
i will have to admit i am a new breeder (less than 5 years) and have learned a lot on this post about Anter/Antar. He was not in this pedigree because i was smart or dumb about breeding. The 3 times Ruminaja Ali i was certainly aware about.
Thanks to all those who have added some insight to this fillies past!
Jerel

Jerel

A beautiful filly. My congratulations!

Oliver,
Thank You for your much valued opinion.
She will be back at the Egyptian Event (Lexington) next year and we are researching stallions to breed her to. Which is more difficult for us being new at this. That is one of the many reasons i find this forum valuable.
Jerel

Wir hatten den tollen Anter Sohn Hadir OA in Deutschland. Äußerst schade, dass er von der Zucht ausgeschlossen wurde, weil er nur einen Hoden hatte. Mich hätte das nicht interessiert, Hauptsache, ich hätte seine Babys sehen können.

Meiner Information nach war er Kryptorchide und ist zu Recht aus der Zucht ausgeschlossen worden.

Wow, I often wondered where my mare got that shoulder and look of her's. I think I just saw the answer in this post. As, often as I have looked at Ibn Morafic's dam I've never seen it. Tell me what you think. This girl is by my Ibn Morafic son.

Hansi, I don't think you need defending, but I have never agreed with J.F. account of Anter either. I don't see long anything in the three very balanced sections.
Wonderful horse Anter was. Those that have his blood should prize and use it.

Sorry about the picture quality, it's just a snap of mine late one evening.

Georgia

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HI JEREL,
DSA HEY BABY, CERTAINLY IS PRETTY, WE CAN'T WAIT TO SEE HER AT THE EGYPTIAN EVENT, ALONG WITH ALL OF YOU TO HAVE SOME GREAT FUN.
Robert,
Echo Hill Arabians

Guten Morgen Babs, Du hast recht. Ich habe mich in meiner Begeisterung hinreißen lassen, weil ich verdammt neugierig auf seine Babys gewesen wäre.

just found those from 2005 - they are farmes from a video so not very good. Pictured as a 2 y old

Sadats espresso (Glenglade Sadat x EH Bahretta by Messaoud)

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Jerel:

Judi Parks has a colt with 7 crosses to Anter and I had asked her if this colt carried the most lines to Anter in modern Arabian Horse breeding (his name is Sarig al Qulob), then I looked for this discussion and saw your post, where you mention that Hey Baby has 5 crosses. WOW! I must have missed this in 2006, when you wrote it. I am a fan of Anter and I am going to watch your pretty girl very carefully. Is she in foal to Casino or Alaa Jabaar?

Ralph

Hi All,

Patricia Lawrence took this shot last month
of my mare Illa Bint Serag (*Serag x Black Solataire).
She is a granddaughter of Anter, and has
made a believer out of me regarding these
bloodlines.

Kind Regards,

Jill

Hi Jill,

I would LOVE to see her in the flesh. I tried to see Rahotep but never connected with Sable when he was in California - answering machines and bad communication - now he is in Texas!

Christine

Christine,

I would happily kidnap you from the Event
and take you to the farm to see her.

The ransom will be photos that capture
her as she is....I don't have any remotely
worthy of her yet.

She shed out a very dark chestnut, almost
purple in places with the flaxen mane and tail.
She has a magnificent neck and the cleanest
throatlatch ever (no sweat needed!)

Oh yeah, and attitude for days: she LOVES
to show off.

Jill

Hi Jill,

How far is she from Lexington?
I don't want to miss the population genetic seminar but after that....

Christine

Christine,

North up I-75 almost the whole way.
Roughly 3 hours I think.
Trotwood OH.

Does this mean the kidnapping is off?


Jill

Jill ,she is truly lovely and worthy of your long search.

Jill,

If she's missing when you get home, don't come looking at my place!!

Ray

Hi Jill,

David told me that he had been to your place over the weekend and had looked at Illa and just loved her

I'm so glad that she is now with you

*Serag certainly put some beautiful children on this planet and you will be proud to know that *Serag children and grand children can now be found in Europe, United States, Canada, Central America and the Middle East

Grand mother is very happy!

Judi

Good morning all

Judi has Ben Ben Barrada, with excellent movement and conformation, which carries Antar through Bint El Nil, who is a full sister to Serenity Shahra and Dawlat.
This is a stallion people should take a good look at. I know this horse since he was a yearling, saw him again as a 3/4 year old and was impressed. He might become an endurance racer to be reckoned with some day.

Hansi
Serenity Arabian farms

Jill:

I missed your post with the picture of you beautiful mare. I knew that you had purchased a *Serag daughter (I think we had exchanged emails, right before you left to picke her up) and was extremely curious to see what she looks like and WOW! She is GORGEOUS. What are you going to do with her?

Ralph

Dear Jill

I am so happy for you that you got this beautiful mare. Breed her carefully to never lose that athetic enheritance.

take care
hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms

Hi Jill, I knew i should of stopped by..Ken

Hansi, I have always grown up studying Egyptian Arabians and have alsways enjoyed reading the wonderful things that you have learned. I would love to have had the experiences you did. My father and I used to spend hundreds of hours together pouring over horse pedigrees and and studying the horses over there. He always loved your horses, and I so appreciate the insight you put on this websight. You have some amazing horses, as has Judi, and they are different, yet both very Egyptian.

The Mahbouba line by Anter's is amazing. Mahbouba was said to float across the ground without touching. Her daughter, *AK Jaheena was the same way. When my father purchased "Jaheena", I was priveledged to be her rider. We spent many afternoons on trail rides, and she would float, just like her ancestors. Yet she was as calm as they came, until the day we had a pack of wild dogs chase us, and then I was holding on for dear life, as the true horse in her took off, and we were "flying thru the hills", south of Salt Lake City!

Hansi, it is so good to hear the opinion of others who have seen Anter. You are encouraging to all!

Hansi,

I am very excited to see him soon!
Most probably under saddle.

Christine

*AK Jaheena came to live with me at the end of her life. I thought you might like to see photos of her taken a just before her death a month before she turned 32.

Kim,

I saw your magnificent *AK Jaheena at Hillorin's
father's place. WOW -- a true queen of a mare
in all aspects, and I could pick her colt out of the
pasture among 5 or 6 others by the same sire.
Just a wonderful mare and a great producer too.
I'm so glad she came to be with you for her final years.

Hillorin: So neat to hear you and Jaheena shared
riding adventures -- I bet the "war mare' in her did
take over during the pack of dogs incident. Some
things just are hardwired, eh?! Those hills are
serious -- another SE mare your father had gave me
a terrific ride during my visit: Bellesaana.

Another mare that really convinced me of the
value Anter adds when he is up close.

Kind Regards,

Jill

Sorry Double post

Jill, Jaheena was one of my loves. She was so kind and grateful. She was a dream mare. I only wish she could have produced a daughter. I do have her two intact sons. Hadban Al Nazhi by Glorieta Gazaal and Meadow Mahonri by Kamars Sherif. Both stallions are the most beautiful on the place.

Click to view attachment Hadban Al Nazhi


Click to view attachment Meadow Mahonri

Absolutely Kim,

Jaheena was a dream mare.
I've been drooling over your
Hadban Al Nazhi for some time and
want very much to see him in person.

Mahonri I saw (was he 2 or 3 maybe)
and really excellent -- seems he didn't
go through any "growthy" stages at all
as some can do at that age: he just
looked like a million bucks.

Give them a pat for me?

Jill

Thank you so much!!!!!! It's good to know that she was in such good hands. Those pictures bring back such great memories!!! She was such an angel of a horse!!!! The sweetest spirit ever, so SMART, and just gorgeous!! Until I married and moved away, those horses were my life, and I very much plan on getting deeply involved again (after my children are out of the "diaper" stage!). I'm still trying so HARD to find her son from Ra'ading Inshalla. He was unbelievable! My Dad gave me a name of a man in Draper Utah who might know, and even though unfortunately they gelded him (yikes!) I still want to find him. Some day, I will have to write a story about all of those amazing horses, and the good days (before my fathers illness that destroyed it all). You are doing a wonderful thing preserving the Hadban Enzahi strain, and I will never forget seeing Mahonri's sire in Wyoming. That was quite the drive! She didn't do AI, so we drove Jaheena to the middle of nowwhere, (it was beautiful) out to a cow ranch, to see the most amazing black stallion with the most incredible pedigree I ever saw! And she used him to herd cattle sometimes!! We then discovered that Jaheena had a huge tumor on her right ovary (I think it was the right) and immediately drove her to Colorado State University for emmergency surgery. She was there for quite a while, recovered well, and then we drove Jaheena back up, where she was covered just once by Kamars Sharif, and conceived Mahonri. It was quite and adventure! Do you have any pictures of him as a foal? I took some before I left for Guatemala, if you don't have any, I'll see if I can track them down. Are you still breeding him to outside mares?

Take care!!!

Hillori Knaphus Green

Here is a previously unpublished photo of a SON of ANTAR - a lovely horse with a delightful temperament.

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David

Hi David,

a nice guy, is he still alive ? Looks old on this pic ...

regards Babette

Hillori, I would love photos of Mahonri as a young horse if you can find them. and Jaheena too if you have any at all.

I was searching for Meadow Mansour and missed him by one week. If I had just been a little more lucky. I asked your dad to lease him to me but he sent him to Arizona for two years. At the end of two years I called him to see about leasing and could not reach him,. A few weeks later he answered his phone and had been in the hospital but by then it was too late. The horse had been sold at auction for 1000 and gelded by the boarding stable. I am, still angry about it after all these years. He was a much needed horse to help preserve the Hadbans and he would have added so much to the group.

I bred Mahonri to my other love mare Hadba El Dalanna and a black filly was born. She was a long lined beauty. I was standing at the fence talking to her and started asking what her name was. I said a whole bunch of names and when I said Jaheena she turned and whinnied at me. So Jaheena came back to us and is not gone after all.This filly looks like her grandmother and acts like her too.

I hope you can come see her soon, you are gonna love this filly.

Meadow Mansours nickname was Macho, do you know if he had any babies sired while being leased? I would still love him even as a gelding, he was absolutely phenomenal! That is so great about the new Jaheena. Do you have any pictures?

Who is this horse?

Hi Oliver,

According to AHA Datasource, Antar/Anter had only one grey son - Ibn Antar (1964) out of *Bint Mona. (looks like a stallion, anyway )


Ray

edit: p.s. OH! - also the photo is named "ibn_antar_at_torryburn_001"

Thank you Ray!

Wow is the word here. I'm sure that is *Ibn Antar, as he did go to Australia. You guys down under were so lucky to have him! And for all the discussion of Antar being primarily a broodmare sire, lets see, where would we be without Gharib? And Gharibs' sons? Including El Abd, who was accepted into the Trakhener main stud book? And *Serag, and *Ibn Antar? And too bad *Zahid bred almost exclusively non-SE mares at Antara! OK, off of my soapbox. I'll be the first to admit I'm a HUGE Antar fan, so very biased!

Sandy

Hi Sandy,

Yes the only Anter son to go to Australia was Ibn Anter. I saw him at Gleannloch years ago and thought he was lovely. He was not used much as Morafic was still alive which was a shame as he was a nice horse.

It's okay to be an Anter fan

Best,

Judi

Babette, Aug 14 2008, 07:01 PM wrote: Hi David, a nice guy, is he still alive ? Looks old on this pic ...regards Babette

Died - 1995
There are a few sE progeny by him. My friend and I saw him at Torryburn in the early 80s. Didn't really understand why he wasn't used as much as he could of been.

Hi Sandy: And I agree with you that Anter also sired good sons. However, he was such an influential sire through his daughters, as his daughters went on to really influence SE breeding in a big way. REALITY CHECK...did the Anter sons receive the same opportunities to breed the outstanding mares of the day, equal to the calber of stallions that the daughters were bred to? That is the million dollar question, which we can discuss at length and reflect over, without changing the way Anter is represented today. It's a good question to bring to the surface of thinking, as it is important to understand that it is not a matter of siring quality for the Anter sons. I just don't think they were given a chance. So, our hope is for the Anter influence, through the females, which were excellent mares.

I am working on something for my blog and was overwhelmed at a few things that caught my attention:

Bentwood collected some really outstanding Anter daughters out of the Nazeer daughter, Abla. Mares like *Nagat, *Somaia, *Ein. What fascinates me is the daughter out of *Nagat, Serroya. Her sire was Fa Serr. And it is really fascinating to count the number of times that Ibn Rabdan appears in the pedigree, in a blend that is unique. Serroya was then bred to *Ibn Moniet el Nefous, to produce what I think is her only daughter: AK Serrmonietta. That's more Ibn Rabdan, through Shaloul. *Nagat was also bred to the half-Babson horse, AN Monte Carlo (*Ibn Moniet el Nefous) and to produce the stallion: Ser-Rom and to the Babson horse, Roufas (Fa Serr x Aaroufa), to produce the stallion: Serruffas. While Serruffas has not left any SE offspring, Ser-Rom did: DR Wafin Tifla (this mare has the tail female to Sirhabba, which is of particular interest to me) and the mare Ja Fay Serra (out of the Babson mare, Serr Beth). Following the trail on all breed, one can notice that there is progeny from both mares. How exciting to learn that these sources are still alive and well.

*Somaia's daughter by *Morafic, Sadaa was also part of the herd, as was *Nagat's daughter by AK Shahm, AK Nashahma.

Bentwood also owned the Anter daughter *Nabilahh and her daughters Lohelia (by *Morafic), AK Aliha (by *Sakr). The Anter daughter, *Dawlat (out of the Nazeer daughter, Sheherazada), the Anter daughter *Hayat (out of the *Morafic daughter, Tanta), the mare Hamaama (sired by the Anter son, Ibn Anter and out of the Anter daughter, *Hekmat), AK Jaheena (a Waseem daughter out of the Anter daughter, Mahbouba), *Magidaa (an Alaa el Din daughter out of the Anter daughter, Maysa).

Really, the only farm to have a concentrated source of Anter blood was Gleannloch, as they imported 10 Anter daughters. It appears now that some of these mares were sold by Gleannloch and purchased by Bentwood. Maybe I knew it and forgot it, maybe I feel differently about Anter today, than I felt back in the day. It would have been a GREAT opportunity to have purchased these Anter daughters and completely focus on them as the ONLY breeding program. I actually shudder and shake to think such a thought, as I know in my heart that the results would have been awesome. We know form history that Anter nicked really well with certain families, i.e. Yosreia through her daughter Farasha and her daughters: *Nabilahh and Shahrzada come to my mind, as does the Nazeer daughter, Abla out of the mare Helwa.

Bentwood had a collection of the finest Babson and Sirecho/Babson mares. Knowing what I think I know now, I mourn the loss of crossing these bloodlines with Anter sons and the Anter daughters with Babson stallions, to intensify the Ibn Raddan blood.

What do you all think (I don't have the datasource by the way, so my view is limited to what is found in allbreed and my notes.)?

Ralph,
Al Nahr Serroya also produced AK Bint Serroya, by Na Ibn Moniet, adding even more Fa-Serr blood. Although AK Bint Serroya only had 3 foals at Bentwood, only AK Refkaya (by *Refky) bred on - AK Refkaya went from the US to England, and then on to Jordan. In England she was bred by the Maxwells to Hamasa Khazzan (SE from Olm's stud: Kasr El Nil [ Tuhotmos x Bint El Nil] x Nafteta [Kaisoon x Moneera}. to get the daughter Refka. Refka was sold to Saudi and produced two foals: Shaqran 1995 stallion and Ameerat Al Khail 1996 mare, both by Reeman Al Thani (not SE or asil).
A second foal produced at Maxwells out of AK Refkaya was Rashaa (by Maleik El Kheil - not SE or asil as he is by El Shaklan and out of Muneera). She had two foals for Maxwells and then was exported to the UAE (no further DataSource info).

Now for the good news for SE folks: AK Refkaya was bred in Jordan to Ansata NIle Pasha and produced a son, Badr, in 1993. He is shown as sire of 8 foals on DataSource, 5 of which are SE.

Finally, AK Refkaya produced a daughter in Jordan, by the SE stallion Shaikh al Shaheer (Shaikh Al Badi x Kohela) in 1996, named Badria. DataSource shows no foals.

Maybe Princess Alia can elighten us about her status and that of her half brother, Badr.

Anita (who happily pays every year for unlimited access to DataSource)