Oh yes, here is *Waheeb age 7 and age 26
(sorry for the fuzzy photo)Click to view attachment
Full Version: Antar/anter Discussion
Hi Kimberly,Neamat Allah is a great, great granddaughter of AK Jaheena as she is out of Norjana a Norus combination with Bint Jaheena who was by Ibn Moniet El Nefous.
Here she is with her new foal when he was about a week old, Sarig Al Qulob (aka Hootie) Take a close look at this head...which is very typey if not exotic. Neamat has 5 crosses to Anter in her pedigree. Combining her with our *Serag son, Ahsen El Serag only added 2 more crosses to Anter.
Judi
Abbasiyah
Oh, Judi! she is BEAUTIFUL! I love ehr and her colt. Thank you for posting her photo. Jaheena was such a love and a grat mare if I do say so myself. It is wonderful to see her kids and grandkids. She will always hold a very special place in my heart.
QUOTE (Guest @ Jul 18 2006, 10:30 PM)
Thank you for your thoughts judi.
Judith Forbis also described Gharib as becoming "coarse" as he aged - I struggle with this statement as I consider Gharib a very refined horse. Perhaps by coarse she meant not pretty enough in the head? Gharib, to me, shows again the strong points of Antar. Look at that rear end, it is great, bigger than his front end. One can see why the Antar rear ends combined with the Nazeer fronts is a success story. Gharib also has a beautiful long arm, at least 50% of his shoulder length. Judith Forbis seems to prefer a shorter arm bone with the legs attached further forward - I think that is what she meant by Antar's front legs attaching differently. She had a preference for a different structure, but that doen't mean the rest of us should agree. The oher thing I like about Gharib is that his stifle appears to be as low as his elbow, and consequently his flank is almost as deep as his chest. He could stil be deeper in both areas, and I feel his loin is weak, but he is better balanced than many SEs we are seeing today.
Why people do that value this blood more highly (as Oli says the Gahrib and Antar blood is THE proven performance blood) I do not understand.
The mixing of sons and daughters of Serag and Gharib (for example) with the beauty queens/kings of today is the way to go, in my opinion.
Judith Forbis also described Gharib as becoming "coarse" as he aged - I struggle with this statement as I consider Gharib a very refined horse. Perhaps by coarse she meant not pretty enough in the head? Gharib, to me, shows again the strong points of Antar. Look at that rear end, it is great, bigger than his front end. One can see why the Antar rear ends combined with the Nazeer fronts is a success story. Gharib also has a beautiful long arm, at least 50% of his shoulder length. Judith Forbis seems to prefer a shorter arm bone with the legs attached further forward - I think that is what she meant by Antar's front legs attaching differently. She had a preference for a different structure, but that doen't mean the rest of us should agree. The oher thing I like about Gharib is that his stifle appears to be as low as his elbow, and consequently his flank is almost as deep as his chest. He could stil be deeper in both areas, and I feel his loin is weak, but he is better balanced than many SEs we are seeing today.
Why people do that value this blood more highly (as Oli says the Gahrib and Antar blood is THE proven performance blood) I do not understand.
The mixing of sons and daughters of Serag and Gharib (for example) with the beauty queens/kings of today is the way to go, in my opinion.
Hello Guest,
I think a lot of the coarse comments generally refer to the head. Anter did not have an exotic head, nor did *Serag for that matter but in my opinion the head is the easiest thing to fix in a breeding programme. It takes foever to get rid of a low tail set or offset cannons or a short neck and when you lose the correct structure for good movement well I think Sharon gave us a very good visual on this.
Some people seem to think that Anter was long in the back. He was longer than some of his contemporaries but all to often people make the mistake of thinking that a horse with a super well laid back shoulder and a long hip has a long back. If you take a good look and divide the photo of Anter up into thirds you will see that he did not have a long back at all. Low back?? Even Nazeer had a low back at that age. Shucks, a lot of things are lower on me these days
Do horses become coarse when they age? I find this a bit hard to believe but then again when I came in from a dip in the pool, struggled out of my bathing suit and glanced in the mirror I almost cried.... I definately looked a lot better 25 years ago!!! My muscle tone and skin was a lot better and I do think it is the same for older horses. Coarse.... I take offense at that word. I'm plump but my bone mass has not increased
I think *Gharib was a heck of a sire. I remember people talking about *Gharib and that he was not the horse that Hadban Enzahi was. I often wonder what on earth they were thinking of when they made these statements. No *Gharib did not have the Nazeer look but he sure did add length of neck, shoulder angle, depth in the hip and movement. (
I agree with you guest. Can you just imagine what the foals from these beauty Queen's would look like if they were combined with the Anter blood? I know Ansata had great success when they tried this combination with the mare Dal Maharia, a double Anter mare they acquired at the Silver Unicorn sale in Oklahoma.
Ralph, here is a Johnny Johnston photo of *Serag that was taken when he was 3 years old at Bentwood Farms in Texas. This was just before he was sold to Najim Audi in Brasil. Najib Audi had great success combining *Serag's Anter blood with all the National Champions he had acquired from the U.S. *Serag did not come back to the U.S. until we re-imported him as a 19 year old horse.
Judi
Abbasiyah
How does it go: "Age shall not wither thy beauty......", had to be by a moron or by one overly given to poetic license. If the only thing that was low on my body now, was my back, I sure wouldn't complain.
LMG
LMG
good morning everybody
some people confuse substance with coarseness. Judi Forbis once released an educational drawing stating that the front legs should be more forward in Arabians.These front legs looked if they were flush with the chest. I could not believe such drawing and statement. It was based on some of Judi's horses having just that.
If this is what she likes, so be it, but I dont know of any equine breed
having such strange conformation. Of course such would restrict movement.
I saw Gharib in Egypt before he was exported to Germany and truly liked him. He was elegant, superb athlete, and could never be judged other than an excellent Desert Bred Arabian. Photos also never did this horse any justice.
Marbach has always been known for centuries to be expert horsemen/breeders, and do not incorporate or continue breeding from any animal which in their judgment does not meet high standards, and that up todate. I never can understand how some folks make adverse statements, and might not have a clue from which end a horse eats. I am not refering to Judi, okay. Only clueles laymen can make adverse statements about Marbach to possible promote other types and bloodlines.
I have read statements about certain SE stallion on this forums which were so far removed from reality, it is pathetic. Basically, because such were owned by a large group of people defending their aquisitions, some made when daydreaming I feel. But if this is what they truly like, so be it.
I have followed the production of the Antar line, Sameh, Mashhour and Nazeer very closely over these 40 years, always with the eye for good horses, horses we can ride through and over anything and horses who's silhuette unmistakenly discribes the Desert bred SE/Asil Arabian horse. The wise breeders here in the USA years ago saw the same and breed accordingly. Due to agressive promotion of some parties, these lines were tried to be supressed, but only by the ignorant or greedy. The results ae obvious. Now, when a high percentage of the SEs appear to be useless, the alarm signals come up and fortunately it is not too late. I pray that this alarm signal will be heard by known large breeding organizations and consider reality and do something about it.and stop pulling the wool over peoples eyes.
When important people tell judges "to judge from the top down" and not from "the bottom up" there is a solid reason. Follow such, and you end up with a useless garden ornament. I guess this is why such people established the insain point system, a dumb and agressive marketing system only a clueless layman can follow.
Just my opinion
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms
.
some people confuse substance with coarseness. Judi Forbis once released an educational drawing stating that the front legs should be more forward in Arabians.These front legs looked if they were flush with the chest. I could not believe such drawing and statement. It was based on some of Judi's horses having just that.
If this is what she likes, so be it, but I dont know of any equine breed
having such strange conformation. Of course such would restrict movement.
I saw Gharib in Egypt before he was exported to Germany and truly liked him. He was elegant, superb athlete, and could never be judged other than an excellent Desert Bred Arabian. Photos also never did this horse any justice.
Marbach has always been known for centuries to be expert horsemen/breeders, and do not incorporate or continue breeding from any animal which in their judgment does not meet high standards, and that up todate. I never can understand how some folks make adverse statements, and might not have a clue from which end a horse eats. I am not refering to Judi, okay. Only clueles laymen can make adverse statements about Marbach to possible promote other types and bloodlines.
I have read statements about certain SE stallion on this forums which were so far removed from reality, it is pathetic. Basically, because such were owned by a large group of people defending their aquisitions, some made when daydreaming I feel. But if this is what they truly like, so be it.
I have followed the production of the Antar line, Sameh, Mashhour and Nazeer very closely over these 40 years, always with the eye for good horses, horses we can ride through and over anything and horses who's silhuette unmistakenly discribes the Desert bred SE/Asil Arabian horse. The wise breeders here in the USA years ago saw the same and breed accordingly. Due to agressive promotion of some parties, these lines were tried to be supressed, but only by the ignorant or greedy. The results ae obvious. Now, when a high percentage of the SEs appear to be useless, the alarm signals come up and fortunately it is not too late. I pray that this alarm signal will be heard by known large breeding organizations and consider reality and do something about it.and stop pulling the wool over peoples eyes.
When important people tell judges "to judge from the top down" and not from "the bottom up" there is a solid reason. Follow such, and you end up with a useless garden ornament. I guess this is why such people established the insain point system, a dumb and agressive marketing system only a clueless layman can follow.
Just my opinion
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms
.
Marbach or better the people in charge did not want Gharib in the first place. Dr. Wenzler chose Hadban Enzahi and later brought in Gharib. It is a fact that Dr. Wenzler fell in love with a totally different horse than Gharib, the grey Fol Gamil who could not obtained for several reasons. Then he switched to the EAO stallions and fell in love with Alaa El Din who of course was not for sale due to the fact that he was head stallion there. From the stallions which were for sale he then chose Gharib.
A good decision because he was everything Marbach needed at that time.
Interesting side not is that Judi Forbis obviously like Gharib a lot because she tried to get him in the United States and I think it was Jim Kline for whome she tried to buy him. The German Mister von Niebelschütz who was in El Zahraa with Dr. Wenzler wrote that she was very upset that Gharin went to Germany and not to the United States. That statement shows how much she valued him and that a pretty face alone was not her cup of tea.
Marion Richmond of Simeon Stud in Australia once said in an interview she gave that it is of utmost importance that when you used a very exotic and ethereal stallion you should use a more correct and substancial stallion the following generatioan and then again use the ethereal one and so on. In Egyptian breeding in the US and in Europe in the last years most breeders only use the ethereal type of stallion and forget about the other type which is a sin. Anter and Sameh both are overlooked but now it seems they slowly have their "comeback".
A good decision because he was everything Marbach needed at that time.
Interesting side not is that Judi Forbis obviously like Gharib a lot because she tried to get him in the United States and I think it was Jim Kline for whome she tried to buy him. The German Mister von Niebelschütz who was in El Zahraa with Dr. Wenzler wrote that she was very upset that Gharin went to Germany and not to the United States. That statement shows how much she valued him and that a pretty face alone was not her cup of tea.
Marion Richmond of Simeon Stud in Australia once said in an interview she gave that it is of utmost importance that when you used a very exotic and ethereal stallion you should use a more correct and substancial stallion the following generatioan and then again use the ethereal one and so on. In Egyptian breeding in the US and in Europe in the last years most breeders only use the ethereal type of stallion and forget about the other type which is a sin. Anter and Sameh both are overlooked but now it seems they slowly have their "comeback".
Dear Silke
First of all if Judi would have wanted Gharib, she would have tried to get him for herself. Jim Kline had a different program, different horses and relied on other bloodlines to compliment his breeding program.
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms
First of all if Judi would have wanted Gharib, she would have tried to get him for herself. Jim Kline had a different program, different horses and relied on other bloodlines to compliment his breeding program.
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms
Dear Hansi
I only wrote what Mister von Niebelschütz wrote in a German book to make clear that J. Forbis considered Gharaib as an valuable asset for American breeders. Why else did she try to bring him to the States?
But back to Anter.
I only wrote what Mister von Niebelschütz wrote in a German book to make clear that J. Forbis considered Gharaib as an valuable asset for American breeders. Why else did she try to bring him to the States?
But back to Anter.
I revised the original post that I wrote, asking for this discussion, as I somehow accidentally deleted it yesterday, as I tried to post pictures of some Antar daughters. I changed the progeny list, listing Antar foals by dam and included the mare's pedigree. I also included Dr. Nagel's comment about ANTAR, so that his thoughts are not misconstrued and he and Judi Forbis do not become the topics of discussion, as everyone decides to write whether they agree with these persons or not. . I also added a few paragraphs about Antar, including thoughts that I have developed over the years and offer them as points of thought, leading to a positive discussion about Antar. If there is one thing that I know about ANTAR, is that he was misunderstood and became one of those horses in our community that suffered from misinformation, and unfortunately, his pedigree did not contain the horses that were blessed with unlimited hype and promotion in our community. If one person's attention is captivated by the beautiful daughters he sired and their resulting influence on the Egyptian Arabian Horse, then this discussion will have been worth it. Thanks to everyone for all the great contributions so far.
. I also added a few paragraphs about Antar, including thoughts that I have developed over the years and offer them as points of thought, leading to a positive discussion about Antar. If there is one thing that I know about ANTAR, is that he was misunderstood and became one of those horses in our community that suffered from misinformation, and unfortunately, his pedigree did not contain the horses that were blessed with unlimited hype and promotion in our community. If one person's attention is captivated by the beautiful daughters he sired and their resulting influence on the Egyptian Arabian Horse, then this discussion will have been worth it. Thanks to everyone for all the great contributions so far.
I never tought of Anter as a hidden treasure or a best kept secret in our straight Egyptian community because his daughters are the source of extremely successful horses until this day. It is true that he could not found a successful sire line (in comparison to the Nazeer line) but his daughters became the cornerstone of success.
Yes Petra, you are absolutely correct. I am extremely high on the Antar daughters line and breed such for almost 40 years ver, very successfully.
these horse are not only very beautiful- see our website- but are incredible long striding,balanced ,beautifully dispositioned and powerful movers.
While direct sons of antar are not equal to the daughters in my opinion, just the same they have produced some nice horses too.However, but the sons of the Antar daughters are top producers /the same goes for Sameh, his daughters are superior to his sons, which does not mean that these are not good horses. I am talking here of a high standard in judging.
One of the best athletic sires often overlooked until now, is "Mashhour".
combine this with antar, Sameh,Nazeer in whatever way, you will end up with incredible athletic and in most cases beautiful offspring. I feel the Mashhour blood is even stronger in reproduction, then Antar and Sameh. Serenity Habib is a Mashhour Grand son and we still have two of them here, Serenity IbnKhofo,and Serenity Mamlouk, carrying both, Antar and Mashhour and our Serenity Khohana, daughter of Serenity IbnKhofo and producer of multiple endurance champions. These Mashhour blood horses have all one thing in common: they are tougher than nails, wont quit until they drop dead, are fearless and very intelligent, have tremendous stamina and staying power, extremely talented
and very, very fast. they have extremely long strides as well as incredible hock action. And so have their offspring/offspring.
I am not trying to promote the serenity horses here, they all have done their part, , I am only giving this as an example which you all can check up and verify when seeing them in the flesh.
this might give you an idea to find this bloodline also in Europe, Germany
(Lutz Petersen and willy Luder and Klaus Denart has it), and then compare and or decide.
Just my opinion
Have a grand day
Hansi
serenity Arabian Farms
these horse are not only very beautiful- see our website- but are incredible long striding,balanced ,beautifully dispositioned and powerful movers.
While direct sons of antar are not equal to the daughters in my opinion, just the same they have produced some nice horses too.However, but the sons of the Antar daughters are top producers /the same goes for Sameh, his daughters are superior to his sons, which does not mean that these are not good horses. I am talking here of a high standard in judging.
One of the best athletic sires often overlooked until now, is "Mashhour".
combine this with antar, Sameh,Nazeer in whatever way, you will end up with incredible athletic and in most cases beautiful offspring. I feel the Mashhour blood is even stronger in reproduction, then Antar and Sameh. Serenity Habib is a Mashhour Grand son and we still have two of them here, Serenity IbnKhofo,and Serenity Mamlouk, carrying both, Antar and Mashhour and our Serenity Khohana, daughter of Serenity IbnKhofo and producer of multiple endurance champions. These Mashhour blood horses have all one thing in common: they are tougher than nails, wont quit until they drop dead, are fearless and very intelligent, have tremendous stamina and staying power, extremely talented
and very, very fast. they have extremely long strides as well as incredible hock action. And so have their offspring/offspring.
I am not trying to promote the serenity horses here, they all have done their part, , I am only giving this as an example which you all can check up and verify when seeing them in the flesh.
this might give you an idea to find this bloodline also in Europe, Germany
(Lutz Petersen and willy Luder and Klaus Denart has it), and then compare and or decide.
Just my opinion
Have a grand day
Hansi
serenity Arabian Farms
Let's assume a person were to own a Antar grandaughter thru (33) Maheera (Antar X Thouraya I) [dam line] and a Sameh great-granddaughter thru a Sultann son out of a Kayed daughter.
How would a person breed this mare if phenotype mattered not? What is the opinion of the breeders on this forum?
How would a person breed this mare if phenotype mattered not? What is the opinion of the breeders on this forum?
I would say that you'd have a very atheletic horse, but that perhaps you would want some extra beauty (in the head area) and refinement. Or you may not want this. I personally would take a mare like that and breed to a horse with a more typey and dished head. I'm guessing the horse already has fairly large eyes, so that should not be a problem, but I would bet the mare might be a bit plain headed. Pick a stallion with a more refined but conformationally correct body and a very pretty head with smaller tippy ears. I would say the result would be a pretty AND atheletic baby. That would be what I would do... Would love to hear others thoughts.
Carol
Carol
QUOTE (Justin K. Rogers @ Jul 19 2006, 05:41 PM)
Let's assume a person were to own a Antar grandaughter thru (33) Maheera (Antar X Thouraya I) [dam line] and a Sameh great-granddaughter thru a Sultann son out of a Kayed daughter.
How would a person breed this mare if phenotype mattered not? What is the opinion of the breeders on this forum?
How would a person breed this mare if phenotype mattered not? What is the opinion of the breeders on this forum?
This is a daughter of *Serag bred by Al and Judi. We're new to the business of breeding straight Egyptians but have benefited form the mentoring of Al and Judi as well as Hansi and have developed an appreciation for the bloodlines of both programs and the influence of Anter. Nenaa (*Serag x Nilequest lady) is an incredible mover and she is in foal to another great athlete Amiin+/ (Ibn Morafic x Ajibah) whose granddam *Kahramana is an Anter daughter.
Excellent choice! I LOVE Amiin+- !!!! Can't wait to see that foal!
Carol
Carol
QUOTE (MBurton @ Jul 19 2006, 07:31 PM)
This is a daughter of *Serag bred by Al and Judi. We're new to the business of breeding straight Egyptians but have benefited form the mentoring of Al and Judi as well as Hansi and have developed an appreciation for the bloodlines of both programs and the influence of Anter. Nenaa (*Serag x Nilequest lady) is an incredible mover and she is in foal to another great athlete Amiin+/ (Ibn Morafic x Ajibah) whose granddam *Kahramana is an Anter daughter.
justin, we have a mare that traces back to sultan on the sire side and anter on the dam side this mare is a very athletic/atractive mare i would like to know if there are any anter related stallions here in the uk??
this mare is a very athletic/atractive mare i would like to know if there are any anter related stallions here in the uk??
Dear Justin
As I have not seen your mare in the flesh, it is dangerous for me to advise you what stallion to use. I have seen Antar and Sameh bloodlines with georgeous heads and bodies. However, DO NOT sacrifice what you have now, should this be a correct and highly athletic horse, and breed to a Stallion
you have not seen in the flesh who could upset it all.
"correspondence breeding" is not a wise decicion. Take an equine expert along
to assist you, if you like, but dont ever, ever sacrifice because of an "exotic" head".Most all ancestors in the SE pedigree did not have that noowaday exotic head, but had a true-blue desertbred Arabian head, some dished more than others, some straight, but all unmistakenly "Arabian". dont fall
into a trap. I have seen very, very few SEs with an exotic head, which had conformation to match.
My advice would also included to NOT breeding from an AI Stallion or breed your mare by AI. Most certainly dont breed from an UNTESTED stallion. If an AI stallion has proven himself under saddle and has produced offspring doing the same, then go for it.All the good things in the ancestors of the SES came through natural breeding and only accomplished stallions were used for breeding, i.e. racers by enlarge. The selection was made by expert
breeders.
The only diference would be, if the stallion owner sends you the entire collection which must be used ONLY ONE TIME- in its entirety to the mare.
That is equal to live breeding. We have containers here in the USA which hold a total collection of semen, cooled semen. If you go for this, then have the stallion owners veterinarian CERTIFY that the entire collection was taken in his presence and shipped and have YOUR Veterinarian CERTIFY THAT INDEED IT WAS USED JUST ONE TIME TO ONE MARE. DO NOT, devide the semen for more than one cover.
Then send a copy of this along with your foal application to your registry to have this procedure on record.
Just my humble opinion
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms
As I have not seen your mare in the flesh, it is dangerous for me to advise you what stallion to use. I have seen Antar and Sameh bloodlines with georgeous heads and bodies. However, DO NOT sacrifice what you have now, should this be a correct and highly athletic horse, and breed to a Stallion
you have not seen in the flesh who could upset it all.
"correspondence breeding" is not a wise decicion. Take an equine expert along
to assist you, if you like, but dont ever, ever sacrifice because of an "exotic" head".Most all ancestors in the SE pedigree did not have that noowaday exotic head, but had a true-blue desertbred Arabian head, some dished more than others, some straight, but all unmistakenly "Arabian". dont fall
into a trap. I have seen very, very few SEs with an exotic head, which had conformation to match.
My advice would also included to NOT breeding from an AI Stallion or breed your mare by AI. Most certainly dont breed from an UNTESTED stallion. If an AI stallion has proven himself under saddle and has produced offspring doing the same, then go for it.All the good things in the ancestors of the SES came through natural breeding and only accomplished stallions were used for breeding, i.e. racers by enlarge. The selection was made by expert
breeders.
The only diference would be, if the stallion owner sends you the entire collection which must be used ONLY ONE TIME- in its entirety to the mare.
That is equal to live breeding. We have containers here in the USA which hold a total collection of semen, cooled semen. If you go for this, then have the stallion owners veterinarian CERTIFY that the entire collection was taken in his presence and shipped and have YOUR Veterinarian CERTIFY THAT INDEED IT WAS USED JUST ONE TIME TO ONE MARE. DO NOT, devide the semen for more than one cover.
Then send a copy of this along with your foal application to your registry to have this procedure on record.
Just my humble opinion
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms
PETE: Hansi, I saw a lot of the Doug Ford imported horses with the Antar lines...usually on the bottom. They seemed more body horses than very pretty. But some were lacking in rear ends as I consider that to be the most lacking problem with Egyptians. The front ends seemed very nice. I love the Imdal line for what it adds to rear ends (along with beauty and shoulders). The Ford imports seemed to be half horses in comparison to the earlier Marshall/Ansata imports. The Ford horses needed improvement. Of course, it is easier to add head than body. I still consider Sameh to be the most important souce of body, and I agree that you can see the improvement he gave to bodies even 7 generations down the lines. Fancy head influence seems to last maybe 3 generations unless constant breeding for that is included.
HANSI:The antar children I know had a tremendous rearend, where all rectangular horses, and must agree that the horses imported by Ford in 1973 where not all of the quality of the earlier imports by Gleannloch,Ansata and us. I think both Sameh and Antar are equal in their production, meaning athletic abilities and also beauty. I saw Antar in the Flesh the last time in 1973, and was very impressed. I did not see Sameh in the flesh, he died in 1967. Both of course, mated well with Nazeer, I think anything mated well with Nazeer. He, like his sons, produced equally good females and males, something Sameh and Antar did not. Dont misunderstand this please, Antar and Sameh sons are not bad horses. So I am really here judge from the very top of quality. Take Antar- his chestnut daughter daughter Dawlat (Hadbah Enzahia) producer also of the great Dalul, and her full grey sister Serenity Shahra, both mares producing excellently, but different in type. I have 5th generation offspring here of the latter which are like her. Both mares produced different in type, S.Shahra was very typy while Dawlat was a little bit plain. But both produced excellent offspring in my Opinion. Our other Antar daughter Serenity Sagda had also an almost perfect conformation with a tremendous rearend, but was a bit plain in the head. S Shahra was three times in a row Supreme Champion mare, and also Serenity Sagda was a supreme champion. We exported Serenity Le Khofo to the UAE , by SF Ibn Lateef who carries the Antar line through his dam Serenity Bint Sagda, and the Sameh line through Serenity Bint Khofo- a grand daughter of Serenity Sonbolah. I love this horse he is powerful, with a lot of substance not losing elegance, a golden dispostion, and a child can ride him. You can see a bit of him on our website under saddle, Kirsten Petersen taking lessons on him here last year. This stallion enherited all the good points from both sires Antar and Sameh. He should be an excellent match for the mares exported with him.
HANSI:The antar children I know had a tremendous rearend, where all rectangular horses, and must agree that the horses imported by Ford in 1973 where not all of the quality of the earlier imports by Gleannloch,Ansata and us. I think both Sameh and Antar are equal in their production, meaning athletic abilities and also beauty. I saw Antar in the Flesh the last time in 1973, and was very impressed. I did not see Sameh in the flesh, he died in 1967. Both of course, mated well with Nazeer, I think anything mated well with Nazeer. He, like his sons, produced equally good females and males, something Sameh and Antar did not. Dont misunderstand this please, Antar and Sameh sons are not bad horses. So I am really here judge from the very top of quality. Take Antar- his chestnut daughter daughter Dawlat (Hadbah Enzahia) producer also of the great Dalul, and her full grey sister Serenity Shahra, both mares producing excellently, but different in type. I have 5th generation offspring here of the latter which are like her. Both mares produced different in type, S.Shahra was very typy while Dawlat was a little bit plain. But both produced excellent offspring in my Opinion. Our other Antar daughter Serenity Sagda had also an almost perfect conformation with a tremendous rearend, but was a bit plain in the head. S Shahra was three times in a row Supreme Champion mare, and also Serenity Sagda was a supreme champion. We exported Serenity Le Khofo to the UAE , by SF Ibn Lateef who carries the Antar line through his dam Serenity Bint Sagda, and the Sameh line through Serenity Bint Khofo- a grand daughter of Serenity Sonbolah. I love this horse he is powerful, with a lot of substance not losing elegance, a golden dispostion, and a child can ride him. You can see a bit of him on our website under saddle, Kirsten Petersen taking lessons on him here last year. This stallion enherited all the good points from both sires Antar and Sameh. He should be an excellent match for the mares exported with him.
Hansi in 2004:
I first saw "Serag" at Nagib Audi, Brazil, when he was about
12 years old. I was very impressed with him. He was very correct and indeed had a georgeous trott, movement. then Nagib brought out some of his children, there were then at side of their dams, and they were outstanding, extremely uniform and all had excellent movement. But then I also saw him here at your place in Florida,when he was already quite old, still had that fire in his eyes, still in good form, just a real good stallion.
Of course, being a Son of "antar" (1946) showed off well in him.
I always loved the Antar blood, in combination with Nazeer, Mashhour, MOrafic, etc. such superb daughters were produced who kept on producing, producing, producing these "super athletes" and multiple champions. Out of 85 children he produced, 19 were Dahmans, the rest Kuhaylan Rodanias and Saqlawiyas, Hadban Enzahis and a few Abayyan Um Jurays. I guess the eAO knew what they were doing too.
Lets continue, as we go along, this is getting so interesting.
Hansi
I guess, breeding does not lie, one just has to thoroughly check out
what is what.
I first saw "Serag" at Nagib Audi, Brazil, when he was about
12 years old. I was very impressed with him. He was very correct and indeed had a georgeous trott, movement. then Nagib brought out some of his children, there were then at side of their dams, and they were outstanding, extremely uniform and all had excellent movement. But then I also saw him here at your place in Florida,when he was already quite old, still had that fire in his eyes, still in good form, just a real good stallion.
Of course, being a Son of "antar" (1946) showed off well in him.
I always loved the Antar blood, in combination with Nazeer, Mashhour, MOrafic, etc. such superb daughters were produced who kept on producing, producing, producing these "super athletes" and multiple champions. Out of 85 children he produced, 19 were Dahmans, the rest Kuhaylan Rodanias and Saqlawiyas, Hadban Enzahis and a few Abayyan Um Jurays. I guess the eAO knew what they were doing too.
Lets continue, as we go along, this is getting so interesting.
Hansi
I guess, breeding does not lie, one just has to thoroughly check out
what is what.
Dear Majiid
I knew her dam "Somaia (somia) (1965) and saw her often at gleannlochs. she died in 1992. she was a typical Antar daugher, tremendous action/reach/conformation. the Antar daughters truly are something to behold, I knew many of them personally. Of course Antar was an accomplished flat racer as well. His sons in my opinion, could not hold a candle to their sisters.
Hansi
I knew her dam "Somaia (somia) (1965) and saw her often at gleannlochs. she died in 1992. she was a typical Antar daugher, tremendous action/reach/conformation. the Antar daughters truly are something to behold, I knew many of them personally. Of course Antar was an accomplished flat racer as well. His sons in my opinion, could not hold a candle to their sisters.
Hansi
Good morning everybody
What is written here about Gharib I also encountered. When I saw him in 1973 shortly before his export to Marbach, I was very impressed. He jumped in deep sand over 1,50 meter, leaving at least 16 inches space between his belly and the jump. Although he did not have the type now looked for, he did look very much like a Desertbred Arabian, and just seeing him moving was the eyes delight.
Nobody could mistake him for other than an Arabian Horse.
Apparently he was used over various warmbloods in Germany/Europe with success. We must not forget that "Anter" is the progenator of oustanding athletic and mentally balanced offspring. I saw Antar
in Egypt numerous times and can not forget his superb ,powerfull rearend, tremendous shoulders/reach, and so very balanced with excellent legs, hoofs.
What is written here about Gharib I also encountered. When I saw him in 1973 shortly before his export to Marbach, I was very impressed. He jumped in deep sand over 1,50 meter, leaving at least 16 inches space between his belly and the jump. Although he did not have the type now looked for, he did look very much like a Desertbred Arabian, and just seeing him moving was the eyes delight.
Nobody could mistake him for other than an Arabian Horse.
Apparently he was used over various warmbloods in Germany/Europe with success. We must not forget that "Anter" is the progenator of oustanding athletic and mentally balanced offspring. I saw Antar
in Egypt numerous times and can not forget his superb ,powerfull rearend, tremendous shoulders/reach, and so very balanced with excellent legs, hoofs.
Regarding the spelling of Antar/Anter:
GUEST: A couple of small spelling corrections to the above Gleannloch Farms Import List. "*Bint Nafisaa" should actually be *Bint NEFISAA", and "*Ibn Anter" - despite his sire's name being spelled "Anter" in Egypt - is properly registered and spelled as *Ibn ANTAR" in the United States.
JUDI PARKS: You are correct *Bint Nafisaa is Nefisaa, a slip of my typing finger. Ibn Anter is registered here in the U.S. under the spelling Antar a mistake in the correct spelling of Anter made long ago as his sire is not Antar but Anter.
HANSI HECK: You are also correct as is the other poster someway. "Antar" is also listed as "Anter"in the herdbooks/studbooks, so in my database I list "Antar (Anter) (Inshass) (1946).
the eAO studbooks many times changes the spelling of a horse,
because it is so hard to translate from the arabic into the english.
GUEST: A couple of small spelling corrections to the above Gleannloch Farms Import List. "*Bint Nafisaa" should actually be *Bint NEFISAA", and "*Ibn Anter" - despite his sire's name being spelled "Anter" in Egypt - is properly registered and spelled as *Ibn ANTAR" in the United States.
JUDI PARKS: You are correct *Bint Nafisaa is Nefisaa, a slip of my typing finger. Ibn Anter is registered here in the U.S. under the spelling Antar a mistake in the correct spelling of Anter made long ago as his sire is not Antar but Anter.
HANSI HECK: You are also correct as is the other poster someway. "Antar" is also listed as "Anter"in the herdbooks/studbooks, so in my database I list "Antar (Anter) (Inshass) (1946).
the eAO studbooks many times changes the spelling of a horse,
because it is so hard to translate from the arabic into the english.
About the mare Hamida (Anter x Nazeera):
GUEST:Now for a question. There is a mare listed in the above list as "*Hamida (Anter x Nazeera) Ch mare foaled 1959, imp 1963", the same year as the *Morafic daughter *Sammara. The only "*Hamida" registered in the U.S. is AHRA #509 (Daoud x Hilmyeh), a 1908 chestnut mare bred by S. G. Hough of England (from Crabbet-bred parents), and imported to the U.S. by W. R. Brown in 1923. Later, the Egyptian mare "*H.H. Prince Mohamed Ali's Hamida" #890 (*Nasr x Mahroussa), an April 6, 1929 grey, bred by Prince Mohamed Ali in Egypt and imported to the U.S. by W.R. Brown in 1932, had to be registered with that hugely-long "prefix" due to there already having been the other "*Hamida" in the studbooks. There is no record of ANY foal from Anter and Nazeera ever having been registered in the U.S., with the only four out of Nazeera having been the 1963 chestnut mare *Romanaa II and the 1964 grey mare *Omayma (both by Sameh, and both imported by Gleannloch as shown in the above list), the 1967 grey mare *Serenity Luftia (by Nasralla/Shahriar), and the 1971 chestnut mare *Manzoura (also imported by Gleannloch). Does anyone happen to know if there was actually a mare of this Anter x Nazeera breeding which was imported by Gleannloch(or anybody else, for that matter)? It would seem unlikely, because it appeared that they registered everything which they imported, even if it died very young and before they could breed anything from it (such as *Bint Maisa El Saghira's year-younger full sister *Bint Maisa, and the in-utero colt *Ibn Sameh). Maybe someone with access to the E.A.O. studbooks could check to see if they even had a female of this name and these parents.
JUDI PARKS:*Hamida (Anter x Nazeera) was foaled in 1959 and died just one month after arrival. She was never registered here in the U.S.
Doug was quoted as saying that she was one of the best mares he imported. Mr. Marshall valued the Anter blood highly. Gleannloch imported 12 Anter offspring.
GUEST:Now for a question. There is a mare listed in the above list as "*Hamida (Anter x Nazeera) Ch mare foaled 1959, imp 1963", the same year as the *Morafic daughter *Sammara. The only "*Hamida" registered in the U.S. is AHRA #509 (Daoud x Hilmyeh), a 1908 chestnut mare bred by S. G. Hough of England (from Crabbet-bred parents), and imported to the U.S. by W. R. Brown in 1923. Later, the Egyptian mare "*H.H. Prince Mohamed Ali's Hamida" #890 (*Nasr x Mahroussa), an April 6, 1929 grey, bred by Prince Mohamed Ali in Egypt and imported to the U.S. by W.R. Brown in 1932, had to be registered with that hugely-long "prefix" due to there already having been the other "*Hamida" in the studbooks. There is no record of ANY foal from Anter and Nazeera ever having been registered in the U.S., with the only four out of Nazeera having been the 1963 chestnut mare *Romanaa II and the 1964 grey mare *Omayma (both by Sameh, and both imported by Gleannloch as shown in the above list), the 1967 grey mare *Serenity Luftia (by Nasralla/Shahriar), and the 1971 chestnut mare *Manzoura (also imported by Gleannloch). Does anyone happen to know if there was actually a mare of this Anter x Nazeera breeding which was imported by Gleannloch(or anybody else, for that matter)? It would seem unlikely, because it appeared that they registered everything which they imported, even if it died very young and before they could breed anything from it (such as *Bint Maisa El Saghira's year-younger full sister *Bint Maisa, and the in-utero colt *Ibn Sameh). Maybe someone with access to the E.A.O. studbooks could check to see if they even had a female of this name and these parents.
JUDI PARKS:*Hamida (Anter x Nazeera) was foaled in 1959 and died just one month after arrival. She was never registered here in the U.S.
Doug was quoted as saying that she was one of the best mares he imported. Mr. Marshall valued the Anter blood highly. Gleannloch imported 12 Anter offspring.
About the Inshass mare, Obeya (Mekdam x Abla), the dam Antar:
BTERLAAN:I did not yet read all the many posts on ths extremely interestiong topic, but I saw that Anter got high marks for his body. Now I am not sure if the croups falls under "body", but I do have a question there. In 2003 I was in Marbach at the Asil Cup and I saw a horse with a very sloping, short croupe and low tail. I did not lik eit very much and said so to someone standing next to me. He said that it was "a typical Gharib" croupe. Gharib is a son of Anter. I went searching and found a picture of Obeya, Gharibs granddam, and she has the croupe as well. Apparently it comes up again after some generations. Of course there are more Obeya's and more Anters, so my first question is: do the positive comments refer to THIS Anter? And further I'd like some comment son this "croupe" observation. Does anybody know more offspring? Hansi? the mare indicated as Obeya is bay. According to the datasource she is grey (another confusion?).
HANSI HECK: Yes, Obeya (Inshass) (1940) dam of Antar (Anter)(Inshass) (1946) is a bay. If you look carefully at her tail, I noticed that it is "stressed" and therefore will drop that croup. It is also taken from a bad angle. I have taken photos of actually "Tabletop horses" and they looked liked that or worse. It is always so difficult to dezifer photos, they can be so misleading, unless you have action shots. I took photos of Serenity sonbolah when she first arrived and those knowing her would aks "who is this filly"!
then there a horses which are not photogenic, like people. All a photo can realy do is give us an idea of the tye of horse, and structual points. As far as Gharib is concerned, I saw him before his exportation to Germany in 1973. He actually cleared a five foot jump (1.50m leving another foot or so in between him and the last post) taking off in deep sand and was truly impressed. He was a natural talent. Indeed, he was Not smooth bodied, and took after Obaeya I guess.
He reminded me a great deal of Adhem, although he was smoother in his body and prettier. Looking at Photos of "Ibn Rabdan" (1917) one might also think that he had a soft back. Of course I dont know when his photos were taken, so age also could have something to do with this. Facts remain, that all those mentioned were super atheletes, race winners, etc. and bred on well. that not all mares match with every stallion, stands to reason. And that no horse is perfect is a definite fact.! I guess the blending with "Hamdan" gave Antar a smooth body
and combinded all the good things from his ancestors.
BTERLAAN:I did not yet read all the many posts on ths extremely interestiong topic, but I saw that Anter got high marks for his body. Now I am not sure if the croups falls under "body", but I do have a question there. In 2003 I was in Marbach at the Asil Cup and I saw a horse with a very sloping, short croupe and low tail. I did not lik eit very much and said so to someone standing next to me. He said that it was "a typical Gharib" croupe. Gharib is a son of Anter. I went searching and found a picture of Obeya, Gharibs granddam, and she has the croupe as well. Apparently it comes up again after some generations. Of course there are more Obeya's and more Anters, so my first question is: do the positive comments refer to THIS Anter? And further I'd like some comment son this "croupe" observation. Does anybody know more offspring? Hansi? the mare indicated as Obeya is bay. According to the datasource she is grey (another confusion?).
HANSI HECK: Yes, Obeya (Inshass) (1940) dam of Antar (Anter)(Inshass) (1946) is a bay. If you look carefully at her tail, I noticed that it is "stressed" and therefore will drop that croup. It is also taken from a bad angle. I have taken photos of actually "Tabletop horses" and they looked liked that or worse. It is always so difficult to dezifer photos, they can be so misleading, unless you have action shots. I took photos of Serenity sonbolah when she first arrived and those knowing her would aks "who is this filly"!
then there a horses which are not photogenic, like people. All a photo can realy do is give us an idea of the tye of horse, and structual points. As far as Gharib is concerned, I saw him before his exportation to Germany in 1973. He actually cleared a five foot jump (1.50m leving another foot or so in between him and the last post) taking off in deep sand and was truly impressed. He was a natural talent. Indeed, he was Not smooth bodied, and took after Obaeya I guess.
He reminded me a great deal of Adhem, although he was smoother in his body and prettier. Looking at Photos of "Ibn Rabdan" (1917) one might also think that he had a soft back. Of course I dont know when his photos were taken, so age also could have something to do with this. Facts remain, that all those mentioned were super atheletes, race winners, etc. and bred on well. that not all mares match with every stallion, stands to reason. And that no horse is perfect is a definite fact.! I guess the blending with "Hamdan" gave Antar a smooth body
and combinded all the good things from his ancestors.
PETE HIATT: I never saw Antar (or Anter) in the flesh but saw a lot of grandget. Unfortunately, most of these were the latter importations in the Ford Sales and not the best horses. However, they seemed to be very average in the heads but nice in the bodies. Generally good rear ends for strength but not for flat top lines. Sometimes a bit weak in the back, but generally good moving horses without much beauty in the heads. I remind you that the ones I saw were not the best so my statements could be misleading
HANSI HECK: Your statements are good, you are very observing. I saw Antar last in in 1973. He tiptoed at 15 hands, was quite mascular, had a super rearend and shoulder and very good unblemished legs. Strong Hocks, clean tendons, well set-on neck. His head was masculan, excellent Jibba,but only slightly dished.
Nowhere are some of his daughters/sons .
1) Dawlat- Chestnut- producer of multiple champions, a champion herself, a hadbah enzahiya going into the famous Sheherezade.
(Aswan) line. Head not too dished, but similar to Antar overall.
Produced accordingly.
2) Serenity Shahra- full sister gre-
Georgeous typy head, 15,2 hands tall, super mover-triple supreme champion mare and producer of multiple champions.
these two full sisters did not look like sisters at all.
But both had excellent conformation
3) Serenity sagda, grey- about 15hands-supreme champion
and producer of champions. She had par-exellent conformation, legs etc but was a bit plain headed with a big jibba. Here she came out of the Samia(1951)/Malaka (1941) line and enherited from it in type.
4) Nabilahh (1960) (KHofo's dam) a grey Hadbah Enzahiyah
Again, excellent conformation, beautiful head but not too dished.
Producer of multiple champions and Most Classics.
5) Cleopatra (1960) black mare -Dahmah Shahwaniya- about 14,3-15 hands. Again bit of a plain head, good mover, body not smooth,bit soft in the cupling- does not resemble much of Antar
6) Ferial (1961) Chestnut Saqlawi Jidraniyah- about 15 hands
Good jibba, not too dished, excellent rerend,conformation, too quite a bit from Antar.
7) Hekmat (1961)- full sister to Serenity Sagda.
Good jibba, a bit of a plainhead, good conformation.
8) Ibn Antar (1963) grey Kuhaylan- about 14,3 to 15hands.
Excellent rearend, good jibba, Lovely head and expression but swayback at younger age.
9) Wahag (1964) a Dahman Shahwan. Chestnut- about 14,3 hands.
Excellent rearend, good jibba, bit plain in the head,
very swaybacked.
10) Someia (1965) grey Dahmah Shahwaniyah. I would say matured to about 14,3 or 15 hands. Lovely head and expression, real good rearend, good conformation.
11) Gharib (1965) black Hadban Enzahi about 15 hands or better.
Excellent rearend and rest of him.Super mover/athletic, big jibba, masculan not too dished face.got a lot from Antar
12) Kahramana (1966) grey Dahmah Shahwaniyah.
about 14,3 to 15 hands. Excellent mover, beautiful head, but not too dished. Real good rearend and overall conformation.
13) NIhal++(l966) Chestnut Hadbah Enzahiyah about 15 hands
1971 US National Champion-western pelasure.
Took a lot after Antar.Very lovely head, not too dished, big jibba,
good conformation.
14) Hayat (Inshass) (1967- grey Saqwlawiah, about 14,3 to 15 hands
Very powerful mare, tremendous rearend, lovely head, but not too dished, big jibba, excellent mover.Got a lot from Antar
15) Serag (1972) Kuhaylan'Ajuz rodan Stallion
good rearend, lovely head, not dished, big jibba, excellent mover,
swayback in his teen years.-which he did not put on to the best of my knowledge. I know of no daughter of Antar having back problems.
All in all everyone of the above was a very good mover with long strides. All had that "Antar" powerful rearend.
Knowing these details one can now try to improve on heads with stallions of also excellent conformation,movement,but put one
a more dished head, if one likes. I found the Antar blood to be very consistent, when it came to conformation, length of stride, but also dispostion. Our success lied in blending with the Khofo/Ibn Nazeer line through Morafic and Nazeer.
I wish I could put photos on here, but dont know how.
May be others of you can now tell us what their findings.
If I had more time, I could go into more details on those who were in my quarantine, but think, I have done this on some before.
Personally, I love the Antar blood because it never let us down.
I love the rearend power, the tremendous stride, the courage and stamina, the beautiful disposition and being toally reliable, honest and forgiving. What some do not have in their faces, they for sure do have it bodywise.
Pete, I also love and respect the others lines, but I thought we go through horse by horse and may be make others understand, what we know/saw/experienced.
JUDI PARKS: Hello Hansi et al,
I feel fairly qualified to comment on Anter and the use of this blood having owned the last son of Anter, the 1972 liver chestnut stallion *Serag (Anter x Bint Om El Saad). Not only was *Serag Anter’s last son he was also maternal half brother to *Serenity Sonbolah (Sameh x Bint Om El Saad) a U.S. National Champion mare and progenitor of numerous champions, not only within your breeding programme Hansi but also at Imperial Egyptian Stud in Maryland.
We acquired *Serag from Najib Audi in Brasil when he was 19 years old. It took us a full year to import *Serag back to the United States from Brasil. Part of the delay was the fact that he had tested positive for Piro Plasmosis, a tick born disease that is found in Africa, South America and in parts of southern United States. Instead of giving up on getting the horse, the Audi’s offered to give him treatments. At that time there was two ways to treat Piro, one was a slower 6 month regime and the other was a one month, obviously more aggressive method. Considering his age we chose the more aggressive method and both the Audi’s and ourselves took the risk of killing the horse in the process of trying to rid him of the Piro.
Needless to say *Serag survived his treatment and came to the U.S. He did suffer from this aggressive treatment regime in that his back had dropped and he now had a compromised liver. This compromised liver was the cause of his death in 1995 at the age of 23. *Serag produced 23 foals here in the United States and all but one was Straight Egyptian. He had already sired 31 foals in Brasil making his lifetime total 55.
*Serag was as Hansi described him. He was very much like his sire in looks with the exception that he was a liver chestnut and he stood about 15 hands. He was quite refined in the bone and he had a very long upright neck, an excellent well laid back shoulder, a long hip with a strong croup and high tail carriage. He had a lovely head, not dished but very Arab and masculine. *Serag’s legs were excellent with clean dry bone and well shaped and proportioned hooves. He was a super moving horse and passed this exceptional movement on to his offspring.
Having always loved Anter and the qualities of this blood we took *Serag to a number of mares that were Anter granddaughters. For example we crossed *Serag with *Nasim (*Gharib x Noha). *Gharib being one of the Anter sons mentioned and produced two full sisters from this combination, one black named Nisma, and one grey named Nour El Serag. No matter what colour both daughters inherited that wonderful movement along with a smooth body, well laid back shoulder and that super Anter rear end—long hip, strong croup and a high tail carriage. The only thing that was different between the two full sisters, aside from colour was the shape of the head. Interestingly enough the best head is on the black mare, Nisma. The grey has a very nice head but again without a dish. In fact the grey mare takes after her grandsire Hadban Enzahi in looks but with a longer neck and a longer hip. I wondered when I did this cross if I would get a better croup and length of hip from Anter as *Nasim had inherited a shorter hip from her grand parents. We also own *Nasim’s full sister *Nardschis and we bred *Nardschis to our *Serag son Ahsen El Serag (*Serag x AK Ahliyeh). AK Ahliyeh is by *Ibn Alaa El Din and out of Lohelia. *Ibn Alaa El Din is the full brother to the dam of Imperial Safinaz and Lohelia is the full sister to *Khofo. The resulting foal, a colt we named Naeem was born chestnut and took after his dam in his overall body structure right down to her shorter hip! This was a combination of three crosses to Anter which goes to show you that just when you’re sure that you are going to get that length of hip out pops those genes from another member of the family. Maybe Alaa El Din?
Later on in her life we were blessed to own the very beautiful *Serenity Shahra (Anter x Shahrzada). Indeed this was a beautiful headed mare, exotic, even by today’s idea of exotic. She was 15.2 hands easy and a super bodied mare. We acquired her in the hopes of being able to breed her to *Serag. Unfortunately this was not to be. I can only just imagine what this foal would have been like.
I would have been happy with just one of this combination—any colour would have done.
In summation I would say that Anter passes on exceptional movement, long hips with strong croups, good legs, length of neck, a well laid back shoulder and a wonderful disposition. Exotic heads by today’s criteria were not his forte but we have achieved all of the above as well as obtaining beautiful heads with the combination of Anter blood with that of Nazeer and Alaa El Din and with the utilization of the mare lines of Malaka, Bint Rissala, El Dahmah through Farida, Dalal through Moniet El Nefous, Bint Hadbah El Saghira through Salwa and Obeya through Bint Sabah.
HANSI HECK:Hi JUdy
I agree with you. I saw some truly outstanding foals by Serag at Mr Audi in 1985 in Brazil. They did not show a back problem then, they were foals at sides of their beautiful non-Asil dams. I also saw Serag then, age 13. He was in super condition-show condition-
and I still see him flying around the paddock. I though then, o boy if he were to flat race, who is going to catch him, eh? I often also think that people who have 1-3 times antar in the pedigree should consider themselves lucky.
Judi Forbis imported a very elegant mare by Antar "Ansata Adeeba (Adeeba) (1966) She was a liver chestnut, about 14,3 hands tall, very elegant and smoothly put together, excellent conformation but also not a very dished head. She was out of Ibtsam, a Saqlavi Jidraniyah.
this young mare also was a super mover with long strides and very balanced. Unfortunately Judy lost her shortly after importation in 1969 I think, she shoked on something. that was a mare I personally really liked and felt real bad for Judi and the mare. She possibly was the most elegant Antar daughter I have seen very much like your Serag.
O boy, those memories, eh?
HANSI HECK: Your statements are good, you are very observing. I saw Antar last in in 1973. He tiptoed at 15 hands, was quite mascular, had a super rearend and shoulder and very good unblemished legs. Strong Hocks, clean tendons, well set-on neck. His head was masculan, excellent Jibba,but only slightly dished.
Nowhere are some of his daughters/sons .
1) Dawlat- Chestnut- producer of multiple champions, a champion herself, a hadbah enzahiya going into the famous Sheherezade.
(Aswan) line. Head not too dished, but similar to Antar overall.
Produced accordingly.
2) Serenity Shahra- full sister gre-
Georgeous typy head, 15,2 hands tall, super mover-triple supreme champion mare and producer of multiple champions.
these two full sisters did not look like sisters at all.
But both had excellent conformation
3) Serenity sagda, grey- about 15hands-supreme champion
and producer of champions. She had par-exellent conformation, legs etc but was a bit plain headed with a big jibba. Here she came out of the Samia(1951)/Malaka (1941) line and enherited from it in type.
4) Nabilahh (1960) (KHofo's dam) a grey Hadbah Enzahiyah
Again, excellent conformation, beautiful head but not too dished.
Producer of multiple champions and Most Classics.
5) Cleopatra (1960) black mare -Dahmah Shahwaniya- about 14,3-15 hands. Again bit of a plain head, good mover, body not smooth,bit soft in the cupling- does not resemble much of Antar
6) Ferial (1961) Chestnut Saqlawi Jidraniyah- about 15 hands
Good jibba, not too dished, excellent rerend,conformation, too quite a bit from Antar.
7) Hekmat (1961)- full sister to Serenity Sagda.
Good jibba, a bit of a plainhead, good conformation.
8) Ibn Antar (1963) grey Kuhaylan- about 14,3 to 15hands.
Excellent rearend, good jibba, Lovely head and expression but swayback at younger age.
9) Wahag (1964) a Dahman Shahwan. Chestnut- about 14,3 hands.
Excellent rearend, good jibba, bit plain in the head,
very swaybacked.
10) Someia (1965) grey Dahmah Shahwaniyah. I would say matured to about 14,3 or 15 hands. Lovely head and expression, real good rearend, good conformation.
11) Gharib (1965) black Hadban Enzahi about 15 hands or better.
Excellent rearend and rest of him.Super mover/athletic, big jibba, masculan not too dished face.got a lot from Antar
12) Kahramana (1966) grey Dahmah Shahwaniyah.
about 14,3 to 15 hands. Excellent mover, beautiful head, but not too dished. Real good rearend and overall conformation.
13) NIhal++(l966) Chestnut Hadbah Enzahiyah about 15 hands
1971 US National Champion-western pelasure.
Took a lot after Antar.Very lovely head, not too dished, big jibba,
good conformation.
14) Hayat (Inshass) (1967- grey Saqwlawiah, about 14,3 to 15 hands
Very powerful mare, tremendous rearend, lovely head, but not too dished, big jibba, excellent mover.Got a lot from Antar
15) Serag (1972) Kuhaylan'Ajuz rodan Stallion
good rearend, lovely head, not dished, big jibba, excellent mover,
swayback in his teen years.-which he did not put on to the best of my knowledge. I know of no daughter of Antar having back problems.
All in all everyone of the above was a very good mover with long strides. All had that "Antar" powerful rearend.
Knowing these details one can now try to improve on heads with stallions of also excellent conformation,movement,but put one
a more dished head, if one likes. I found the Antar blood to be very consistent, when it came to conformation, length of stride, but also dispostion. Our success lied in blending with the Khofo/Ibn Nazeer line through Morafic and Nazeer.
I wish I could put photos on here, but dont know how.
May be others of you can now tell us what their findings.
If I had more time, I could go into more details on those who were in my quarantine, but think, I have done this on some before.
Personally, I love the Antar blood because it never let us down.
I love the rearend power, the tremendous stride, the courage and stamina, the beautiful disposition and being toally reliable, honest and forgiving. What some do not have in their faces, they for sure do have it bodywise.
Pete, I also love and respect the others lines, but I thought we go through horse by horse and may be make others understand, what we know/saw/experienced.
JUDI PARKS: Hello Hansi et al,
I feel fairly qualified to comment on Anter and the use of this blood having owned the last son of Anter, the 1972 liver chestnut stallion *Serag (Anter x Bint Om El Saad). Not only was *Serag Anter’s last son he was also maternal half brother to *Serenity Sonbolah (Sameh x Bint Om El Saad) a U.S. National Champion mare and progenitor of numerous champions, not only within your breeding programme Hansi but also at Imperial Egyptian Stud in Maryland.
We acquired *Serag from Najib Audi in Brasil when he was 19 years old. It took us a full year to import *Serag back to the United States from Brasil. Part of the delay was the fact that he had tested positive for Piro Plasmosis, a tick born disease that is found in Africa, South America and in parts of southern United States. Instead of giving up on getting the horse, the Audi’s offered to give him treatments. At that time there was two ways to treat Piro, one was a slower 6 month regime and the other was a one month, obviously more aggressive method. Considering his age we chose the more aggressive method and both the Audi’s and ourselves took the risk of killing the horse in the process of trying to rid him of the Piro.
Needless to say *Serag survived his treatment and came to the U.S. He did suffer from this aggressive treatment regime in that his back had dropped and he now had a compromised liver. This compromised liver was the cause of his death in 1995 at the age of 23. *Serag produced 23 foals here in the United States and all but one was Straight Egyptian. He had already sired 31 foals in Brasil making his lifetime total 55.
*Serag was as Hansi described him. He was very much like his sire in looks with the exception that he was a liver chestnut and he stood about 15 hands. He was quite refined in the bone and he had a very long upright neck, an excellent well laid back shoulder, a long hip with a strong croup and high tail carriage. He had a lovely head, not dished but very Arab and masculine. *Serag’s legs were excellent with clean dry bone and well shaped and proportioned hooves. He was a super moving horse and passed this exceptional movement on to his offspring.
Having always loved Anter and the qualities of this blood we took *Serag to a number of mares that were Anter granddaughters. For example we crossed *Serag with *Nasim (*Gharib x Noha). *Gharib being one of the Anter sons mentioned and produced two full sisters from this combination, one black named Nisma, and one grey named Nour El Serag. No matter what colour both daughters inherited that wonderful movement along with a smooth body, well laid back shoulder and that super Anter rear end—long hip, strong croup and a high tail carriage. The only thing that was different between the two full sisters, aside from colour was the shape of the head. Interestingly enough the best head is on the black mare, Nisma. The grey has a very nice head but again without a dish. In fact the grey mare takes after her grandsire Hadban Enzahi in looks but with a longer neck and a longer hip. I wondered when I did this cross if I would get a better croup and length of hip from Anter as *Nasim had inherited a shorter hip from her grand parents. We also own *Nasim’s full sister *Nardschis and we bred *Nardschis to our *Serag son Ahsen El Serag (*Serag x AK Ahliyeh). AK Ahliyeh is by *Ibn Alaa El Din and out of Lohelia. *Ibn Alaa El Din is the full brother to the dam of Imperial Safinaz and Lohelia is the full sister to *Khofo. The resulting foal, a colt we named Naeem was born chestnut and took after his dam in his overall body structure right down to her shorter hip! This was a combination of three crosses to Anter which goes to show you that just when you’re sure that you are going to get that length of hip out pops those genes from another member of the family. Maybe Alaa El Din?
Later on in her life we were blessed to own the very beautiful *Serenity Shahra (Anter x Shahrzada). Indeed this was a beautiful headed mare, exotic, even by today’s idea of exotic. She was 15.2 hands easy and a super bodied mare. We acquired her in the hopes of being able to breed her to *Serag. Unfortunately this was not to be. I can only just imagine what this foal would have been like.
I would have been happy with just one of this combination—any colour would have done.
In summation I would say that Anter passes on exceptional movement, long hips with strong croups, good legs, length of neck, a well laid back shoulder and a wonderful disposition. Exotic heads by today’s criteria were not his forte but we have achieved all of the above as well as obtaining beautiful heads with the combination of Anter blood with that of Nazeer and Alaa El Din and with the utilization of the mare lines of Malaka, Bint Rissala, El Dahmah through Farida, Dalal through Moniet El Nefous, Bint Hadbah El Saghira through Salwa and Obeya through Bint Sabah.
HANSI HECK:Hi JUdy
I agree with you. I saw some truly outstanding foals by Serag at Mr Audi in 1985 in Brazil. They did not show a back problem then, they were foals at sides of their beautiful non-Asil dams. I also saw Serag then, age 13. He was in super condition-show condition-
and I still see him flying around the paddock. I though then, o boy if he were to flat race, who is going to catch him, eh? I often also think that people who have 1-3 times antar in the pedigree should consider themselves lucky.
Judi Forbis imported a very elegant mare by Antar "Ansata Adeeba (Adeeba) (1966) She was a liver chestnut, about 14,3 hands tall, very elegant and smoothly put together, excellent conformation but also not a very dished head. She was out of Ibtsam, a Saqlavi Jidraniyah.
this young mare also was a super mover with long strides and very balanced. Unfortunately Judy lost her shortly after importation in 1969 I think, she shoked on something. that was a mare I personally really liked and felt real bad for Judi and the mare. She possibly was the most elegant Antar daughter I have seen very much like your Serag.
O boy, those memories, eh?
QUOTE
Judi Forbis imported a very elegant mare by Antar "Ansata Adeeba (Adeeba) (1966) She was a liver chestnut, about 14,3 hands tall, very elegant and smoothly put together, excellent conformation but also not a very dished head. She was out of Ibtsam, a Saqlavi Jidraniyah.
this young mare also was a super mover with long strides and very balanced. Unfortunately Judy lost her shortly after importation in 1969 I think, she shoked on something. that was a mare I personally really liked and felt real bad for Judi and the mare. She possibly was the most elegant Antar daughter I have seen very much like your Serag.
this young mare also was a super mover with long strides and very balanced. Unfortunately Judy lost her shortly after importation in 1969 I think, she shoked on something. that was a mare I personally really liked and felt real bad for Judi and the mare. She possibly was the most elegant Antar daughter I have seen very much like your Serag.
Hi Hansi,
I wish I could see a photo of *Ansata Adeeba. I wonder if Judy has one in her collection. It would be nice to compare her type to that of *Serag as he was extremely refined.
Judy purchased a Dalul daughter at the Silver Unicorn auction years ago, a bay mare by the name of Dal Macharia. I think she sold her to Kuwait years later but this mare produced exceptionally well for her with a number of different stallions at Ansata. Dal Macharia is by Dalul (*Morafic x *Dawlat) and out of *Maharia (Hadban Enzahi x Malacha) so she was double Anter. I think while Judy had her she produced Ansata Maharani by Ansata Halim Shah who was later exported to the Netherlands, Ansata Majeeda by Ansata Hejazi who went to Khalid Bin Sultan Bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud, and Ansata Mariam also by Ansata Hejazi who went to Sheikh Abdullah Bin Nasir Al Thani. She also produced Ansata Mahasen by Ansata Sokar and I’m not sure if Judy still has this mare or not. Not bad for an auction mare! Doesn’t it make you wish you had been there to bid this mare up a bit and then taken her home yourself!
Ansata also had another Anter daughter, *Ansata Bint Elwya, a 1961 mare out of Elwya (Sid Abouhom x Zareefa). This mare is the dam of Ansata El Hakim mentioned above by Debbie who went to Australia and sired 122 offspring. Remember all those Arabian Park horses. She also produced Ansata Haliwa by *Ansata Ibn Halima. Unfortunately this mare ended up with Gucci but at least she had a daughter who is in Canada, Fadara Halima and another named Shulamite Haliwa by Ansata Halim Shah who was exported to Germany.
Anter has been utilized by the world’s top breeding programmes with a great deal of success. Gleannloch imported quite a number of outstanding Anter daughters and it was those Anter daughters in combination with *Morafic that produced those phenomenal show horses of the 70’s and 80’s. Serenity has some beautiful offspring of *Serenity Shahra and *Serenity Sagda and the Anter daughter Ferial can be found in Imperial Baarezah and Imperial Baahiyah by Imperial Baarez.
Hansi, as stated in my last post *Serag did not have a low back until after his Piro treatments in Brasil at the age of 19. None of the *Serag offspring have low backs and as I'm now working on production from *Serag daughters and there has not been a low back on any of these either. In speaking about low backs it always amazes me that breeders say this comes from one set of parents when I have seen low backs coming from ALL bloodline groups and this includes, Moniet El Nefous, Nazeer, and Babson. What causes a low back? Well intelligent breeders know a number of things can cause this and not just one animal in the pedigree. In fact we had a low back in our first straight Egyptian colt and he had four crosses to Nazeer with not a drop of Anter so you tell me why this occurred? Facts are facts and a low back can occur in ALL bloodline groups. Perhaps it is similar to the latent gene that sometimes causes a problem in some of the El Bataa, Bint Nazeer offspring?
Judi
TIAWARRA on the Australian ANTAR Horses:
Hello Hansi,
Antar had a number of representives in Australia, some that come to mind are : Ibn Antar, a son. Ansata El Hakim, a grand son. Hansan, a grand son. Ibn Mahran (who has been mentioned in another topic on this site), a great grand son. El Masarfy ( who I believe left no progeny, dying at a young age), a great grand son. Sir Ibn Moniet, a great grand son. Saweeha, a great grand daughter. Arabian Park Bint Bint Morafic, a great grand daughter. Shahelia, a great grand daughter.
I am only including those who have Antar in the first three generations of their pedigrees. Also there may be more recent imports of Antar descendents as I am not as up to date as I once was.
Ibn Antar, a grand show horse who believed HE was the only horse on the ground. Left approx 60 progeny, but I am uncertain as to how many were SE.
Ansata El Hakim, left quite over 120 progeny, quite a few were SE. While not everyones cup of tea as he was a bit plain in the head, Hakim was correct in leg & was a fantastic saddle horse. His progeny were often black or bred black.
Hansan, a wonderful show horse. Left approx 85 purebred progeny, a number being SE. Some of his progeny were exported back to the states, to New Zealand & even to the UAE.
Ibn Mahran, what can I say about this beautiful boy?? He was the ethereal milk white stallion with movement & attitude to burn. He had excellent legs, a magnificent head & neck...all in all a beauty. Left no SE progeny in Australia but left approx 50 egyptian related. Some of whom went on to be Champion at halter & under saddle. His lines are now being sort after as endurance horses.
Sir Ibn Moniet. A beautiful son of Cleopatraa, what a lovely liver chestnut horse. Left approx 120 purebred progeny, a number being SE. Sadly not used enough in SE breeding programs in Australia.
The mares:
Saweeha left 9 sons & 7 daughters. Many of whom were black or bred black.
Arabian Park Bint Bint Morafic left 8 progeny in Australia, 6 fillies 2 colts.
Shahelia has 4 fillies & 1 colt.
Antar's lines have left a huge imprint in the breeding programs of Se breeders in Australia & in the programs of Egyptian related studs. Whilst these are only a hand full of horses, I would hate to have to count up their totalled progeny.
I realise this isn't exactly what you were after Hansi but I just thought you might be interested. I have the lines of Ansata El Hakim, Hansan, Arabian Park Bint Bint Morafic, running around in my paddock now. All of them have excellent heads, good necks, strong backs, well put together legs with strong tendons & most of all superb temperaments. They all love being with you, some would just love to come & live in the house!!
All the best............Debbie.
Hello Hansi,
Antar had a number of representives in Australia, some that come to mind are : Ibn Antar, a son. Ansata El Hakim, a grand son. Hansan, a grand son. Ibn Mahran (who has been mentioned in another topic on this site), a great grand son. El Masarfy ( who I believe left no progeny, dying at a young age), a great grand son. Sir Ibn Moniet, a great grand son. Saweeha, a great grand daughter. Arabian Park Bint Bint Morafic, a great grand daughter. Shahelia, a great grand daughter.
I am only including those who have Antar in the first three generations of their pedigrees. Also there may be more recent imports of Antar descendents as I am not as up to date as I once was.
Ibn Antar, a grand show horse who believed HE was the only horse on the ground. Left approx 60 progeny, but I am uncertain as to how many were SE.
Ansata El Hakim, left quite over 120 progeny, quite a few were SE. While not everyones cup of tea as he was a bit plain in the head, Hakim was correct in leg & was a fantastic saddle horse. His progeny were often black or bred black.
Hansan, a wonderful show horse. Left approx 85 purebred progeny, a number being SE. Some of his progeny were exported back to the states, to New Zealand & even to the UAE.
Ibn Mahran, what can I say about this beautiful boy?? He was the ethereal milk white stallion with movement & attitude to burn. He had excellent legs, a magnificent head & neck...all in all a beauty. Left no SE progeny in Australia but left approx 50 egyptian related. Some of whom went on to be Champion at halter & under saddle. His lines are now being sort after as endurance horses.
Sir Ibn Moniet. A beautiful son of Cleopatraa, what a lovely liver chestnut horse. Left approx 120 purebred progeny, a number being SE. Sadly not used enough in SE breeding programs in Australia.
The mares:
Saweeha left 9 sons & 7 daughters. Many of whom were black or bred black.
Arabian Park Bint Bint Morafic left 8 progeny in Australia, 6 fillies 2 colts.
Shahelia has 4 fillies & 1 colt.
Antar's lines have left a huge imprint in the breeding programs of Se breeders in Australia & in the programs of Egyptian related studs. Whilst these are only a hand full of horses, I would hate to have to count up their totalled progeny.
I realise this isn't exactly what you were after Hansi but I just thought you might be interested. I have the lines of Ansata El Hakim, Hansan, Arabian Park Bint Bint Morafic, running around in my paddock now. All of them have excellent heads, good necks, strong backs, well put together legs with strong tendons & most of all superb temperaments. They all love being with you, some would just love to come & live in the house!!
All the best............Debbie.
Judi Parks on the ANTAR daughter, *Serenity Shahra (out of Shahrzada)
Hansi has lots of wonderful professional photos of Serenity Shahra.
Here is a photo of Shahra that I took when she was 26 years old (We lost her when she was 28). This was one of the nicest mares that I have ever been owned by
Judi
Hansi has lots of wonderful professional photos of Serenity Shahra.
Here is a photo of Shahra that I took when she was 26 years old (We lost her when she was 28). This was one of the nicest mares that I have ever been owned by
Judi
Judi Parks on the ANTAR son, *Serag
Hi Sheila,
You have some lovely horses up there in that now frozen part of Canada
Here is a picture of *Serag who was Anter's last son and who was out of Bint Om El Saad which made him the maternal half brother to *Serenity Sonbolah. *Serag was first imported to the United States as a 2 year old and spent time at Bentwood. From there he was sold to Najib Audi (Fazenda Santa Gertrudes) in Brasil and spent his time there being bred to all those champion mares that the Audi's imported from the U.S. We imported him back to the U.S. when he was 19 years old and he died March 21, 1995. This is the source of the Anter blood in Mike & Jennifer Burton's Nenaa and yes she is a powerhouse in size and movement. Nenaa's dam line goes back to the wonderful Ansata Sabiha. *Serag was quite something and today you will see sons and daughters in Brasil, Panama, United States and Europe. We had a very nice *Serag son go to Canada out of Asmarr the granddam of Thee Desperado and a full sister to Naheed but unfortunately he died in a fence accident
Judi
Hi Sheila,
You have some lovely horses up there in that now frozen part of Canada
Here is a picture of *Serag who was Anter's last son and who was out of Bint Om El Saad which made him the maternal half brother to *Serenity Sonbolah. *Serag was first imported to the United States as a 2 year old and spent time at Bentwood. From there he was sold to Najib Audi (Fazenda Santa Gertrudes) in Brasil and spent his time there being bred to all those champion mares that the Audi's imported from the U.S. We imported him back to the U.S. when he was 19 years old and he died March 21, 1995. This is the source of the Anter blood in Mike & Jennifer Burton's Nenaa and yes she is a powerhouse in size and movement. Nenaa's dam line goes back to the wonderful Ansata Sabiha. *Serag was quite something and today you will see sons and daughters in Brasil, Panama, United States and Europe. We had a very nice *Serag son go to Canada out of Asmarr the granddam of Thee Desperado and a full sister to Naheed but unfortunately he died in a fence accident
Judi
A great source of the Radia blood can be obtained through the use of ANTER
ANTER is by HAMDAN (one of the fabulous four that was out of Bint Radia) and ANTER's dam is OBEYA. OBEYA traces back through BINT ZAREEFA to Radia ... thus both the sire and dam's tail female trace back to Radia
ANTER was a favourite of King Farouk and the leading stallion at the Inshass Stud before he went to the RAS.
Anter was also quite a performance producer... but I'll leave that for another day
Judi Parks
ANTER is by HAMDAN (one of the fabulous four that was out of Bint Radia) and ANTER's dam is OBEYA. OBEYA traces back through BINT ZAREEFA to Radia ... thus both the sire and dam's tail female trace back to Radia
ANTER was a favourite of King Farouk and the leading stallion at the Inshass Stud before he went to the RAS.
Anter was also quite a performance producer... but I'll leave that for another day
Judi Parks
Here is another pure-in-the-strain Kuhaylan (Modern day representative) of this family. Sorry the photos are a bit blurry as I grabbed them from my video.
This is Bint Serag (*Serag x Hialeah)
*Serag is by Anter who is of the Radia family and his dam is Bint Om El Saad of the Rodania family (KR)
Hialeah is by El Hilal of the Farida family and her dam is *Hekmat of the Riyala family (KR)
This mare is a combination of crossing the tail female line of Rodania with the tail female line of Riyala. In fact, Bint Serag is the only pure-in-the-strain, Kuhaylah Sheykh Obeyd, Post 58 mare in the world. If all goes well she will be bred to the very exciting *HS Hero (Simeon Sadik x Helwa Lancer) who is also a Kuhaylan through the Nazeer daughter Kawmia (Riyala family)
Judi Parks
This is Bint Serag (*Serag x Hialeah)
*Serag is by Anter who is of the Radia family and his dam is Bint Om El Saad of the Rodania family (KR)
Hialeah is by El Hilal of the Farida family and her dam is *Hekmat of the Riyala family (KR)
This mare is a combination of crossing the tail female line of Rodania with the tail female line of Riyala. In fact, Bint Serag is the only pure-in-the-strain, Kuhaylah Sheykh Obeyd, Post 58 mare in the world. If all goes well she will be bred to the very exciting *HS Hero (Simeon Sadik x Helwa Lancer) who is also a Kuhaylan through the Nazeer daughter Kawmia (Riyala family)
Judi Parks
This is the ANTAR daughter, Rashika, a 1962 mare out of ABLA
TIAWARRA on the Australian ANTAR Horses:
Sir Ibn Moniet. A beautiful son of Cleopatraa, what a lovely liver chestnut horse. Left approx 120 purebred progeny, a number being SE. Sadly not used enough in SE breeding programs in Australia.
TARONG SHAHALLA 1984 Chestnut Mare
Out Of: TARONG BINT SHAREEFA by AL KARIM SIRHALIMA
Sired By: SIR IBN MONIET
was imported to the US
left 9 SE gets and 25 grand-gets, most SE
Sir Ibn Moniet. A beautiful son of Cleopatraa, what a lovely liver chestnut horse. Left approx 120 purebred progeny, a number being SE. Sadly not used enough in SE breeding programs in Australia.
TARONG SHAHALLA 1984 Chestnut Mare
Out Of: TARONG BINT SHAREEFA by AL KARIM SIRHALIMA
Sired By: SIR IBN MONIET
was imported to the US
left 9 SE gets and 25 grand-gets, most SE
Somaia f. 8/21/65
Antar x Abla
One of the most beautiful mares that Gleannloch produced was NEAMA, a daughter of *Nabilahh (an ANTAR daughter), sired by *Sakr. She was offered for sale by Gleannloch in the 1980's. *Nabilahh's daughter by *Morafic was named Bint Nabilahh. When this mare, Bint Nabilahh was bred to El Halimaar, the sweet mare, Maar Bilahh was produced. Maar Bilahh produced the popular stallion, Imperial Mahzeer, when bred to Imperial Madheen. He, in turn has sired Bint Saida Al Nasser (out of Saida), Konouz (out of Imperial Kaliya) and Mezna Al Rayyan (out of Ansata Magnifica) among others.
When we speak of a mare like *Nabilahh, her pedigree is so powerful, having ANTAR as a sire and the YOSREIA daughter, FARASHA, as her dam (remember that Farasha also produced the stallions *Faleh and *Farazdac by Alaa El Din and Galal by Nazeer). I believe that this breeding combination of Yosreia and Antar produced beautiful mares, as evidenced also by the daughters of Shahrzada, another Yosreia daughter. Is it any surprise? The combination of ANTAR and YOSREIA was the esteemed formula of Ibn Rabdan and Mansour. A well-proven "recipe" that yielded some of the most unforgettable horses Egypt has ever produced.
Ralph
Ralph,
I love your posts! Food for thoughts for newbies like me.
Thanks for all the clips from different sources and all the pictures.
Christine
I love your posts! Food for thoughts for newbies like me.
Thanks for all the clips from different sources and all the pictures.
Christine
Thank you Ralph for posting all the interesting discussions about Anter. What I find interesting is that not very many of the new breeders have bothered to respond, new meaning within the last 5 or 8 years. Why? Perhaps they don't know much about this old blood and it's value? I wonder how many have even read Sara Loken's story of Anter's sire Hamdan? Do they know the value of Ibn Rabdan? Ralph do you know how many sire line Hamdan horses there are left? Or sireline Anter? I don't, but I suspect that it is a low number. Don't you wonder how things might have been if Hamdan had not gone to King Farouk's stable and if he had stayed at the RAS (EAO)?
I think what is really needed for new up and coming (breeders or want to be breeders) is seminars similar to what was offered at the PS years ago. Seminars giving the history and bloodlines of our horses ancestors. How can you become a breeder if you don't know what is in the background of your broodmare and choice of stallion?
Judi
undefinedI wonder how many have even read Sara Loken's story of Anter's sire Hamdan? Do they know the value of Ibn Rabdan?
Hey Judi,
I haven't read it. Where can you find it?
Christine
Hey Judi,
I haven't read it. Where can you find it?
Christine
QUOTE (Guest_Silke_* @ Jul 19 2006, 10:15 PM)
Marbach or better the people in charge did not want Gharib in the first place. Dr. Wenzler chose Hadban Enzahi and later brought in Gharib. It is a fact that Dr. Wenzler fell in love with a totally different horse than Gharib, the grey Fol Gamil who could not obtained for several reasons. Then he switched to the EAO stallions and fell in love with Alaa El Din who of course was not for sale due to the fact that he was head stallion there. From the stallions which were for sale he then chose Gharib.
A good decision because he was everything Marbach needed at that time.
Interesting side not is that Judi Forbis obviously like Gharib a lot because she tried to get him in the United States and I think it was Jim Kline for whome she tried to buy him. The German Mister von Niebelschütz who was in El Zahraa with Dr. Wenzler wrote that she was very upset that Gharin went to Germany and not to the United States. That statement shows how much she valued him and that a pretty face alone was not her cup of tea.
Marion Richmond of Simeon Stud in Australia once said in an interview she gave that it is of utmost importance that when you used a very exotic and ethereal stallion you should use a more correct and substancial stallion the following generatioan and then again use the ethereal one and so on. In Egyptian breeding in the US and in Europe in the last years most breeders only use the ethereal type of stallion and forget about the other type which is a sin. Anter and Sameh both are overlooked but now it seems they slowly have their "comeback".
A good decision because he was everything Marbach needed at that time.
Interesting side not is that Judi Forbis obviously like Gharib a lot because she tried to get him in the United States and I think it was Jim Kline for whome she tried to buy him. The German Mister von Niebelschütz who was in El Zahraa with Dr. Wenzler wrote that she was very upset that Gharin went to Germany and not to the United States. That statement shows how much she valued him and that a pretty face alone was not her cup of tea.
Marion Richmond of Simeon Stud in Australia once said in an interview she gave that it is of utmost importance that when you used a very exotic and ethereal stallion you should use a more correct and substancial stallion the following generatioan and then again use the ethereal one and so on. In Egyptian breeding in the US and in Europe in the last years most breeders only use the ethereal type of stallion and forget about the other type which is a sin. Anter and Sameh both are overlooked but now it seems they slowly have their "comeback".
Gharib features strongly in my own breeding program and I can see the influence of his athletism every day, I love Marion's statement here, she is a wise lady, with these thoughts in mind no wonder her program is so successful.
Cheers
Jenni
Hello,
My family started our stud with our wonderful foundation mare AP Bint Hakim (Ansata El Hakim x Saweeha). She was with us for 25 years, from the age of 3.
This mare was not the most exoticly refined mare, but boy was she one fantastic broodmare, always producing better than herself and allowing the stallion's qualities to shine through in every foal. She carried two lines to Antar.
Here she is pictured at the age of 14, carrying her seventh foal.
Her second foal, Ashada, was sired by Hansan (El Hilal x Hamamaa) who also carried two lines to Antar.
Here is Bint Hakim pictured with the two day old Ashada, in 1981.
and finally, here is a photo of Ashada as a mature mare (not very well posed!)
Lindy
My family started our stud with our wonderful foundation mare AP Bint Hakim (Ansata El Hakim x Saweeha). She was with us for 25 years, from the age of 3.
This mare was not the most exoticly refined mare, but boy was she one fantastic broodmare, always producing better than herself and allowing the stallion's qualities to shine through in every foal. She carried two lines to Antar.
Here she is pictured at the age of 14, carrying her seventh foal.
Her second foal, Ashada, was sired by Hansan (El Hilal x Hamamaa) who also carried two lines to Antar.
Here is Bint Hakim pictured with the two day old Ashada, in 1981.
and finally, here is a photo of Ashada as a mature mare (not very well posed!)
Lindy
QUOTE (HLM @ Jul 19 2006, 01:00 PM)
good morning everybody
some people confuse substance with coarseness. Judi Forbis once released an educational drawing stating that the front legs should be more forward in Arabians.These front legs looked if they were flush with the chest. I could not believe such drawing and statement. It was based on some of Judi's horses having just that.
If this is what she likes, so be it, but I dont know of any equine breed
having such strange conformation. Of course such would restrict movement.Just my opinion
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms
some people confuse substance with coarseness. Judi Forbis once released an educational drawing stating that the front legs should be more forward in Arabians.These front legs looked if they were flush with the chest. I could not believe such drawing and statement. It was based on some of Judi's horses having just that.
If this is what she likes, so be it, but I dont know of any equine breed
having such strange conformation. Of course such would restrict movement.Just my opinion
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms
Hansi, I agree 100% with your comment. When I first fell in love with the Arabian horse over 30 years ago, it was the SE that drew me as it had the 'deserty' qualities that had been lost here in England by many breeders. However, as the years have gone one and too many SEs have been bred where the shoulder approaches vanishing point, I have reached the stage where I would not have most of these heavily promoted SEs if you gave me tham! The Arab is above all the most highly developed RIDING HORSE in the world, and if you forget that, then your breeding programme is ultimately doomed to disaster.
I work in marketing, and there is a well-known phrase in my industry: "selling the sizzle, not the sausage", meaning you create an image and make people buy that, not the reality behind the image. Not surprisingly, this phrase is American, and for many years a section of the American horse industry (not just the Arab breeders!) have done very well by doing just this.
The Arab is the best horse in the world as a family horse that can do a bit of everything and also be safe for everyone to ride/handle. But if you concentrate on pretty heads and forget that the rest needs to function properly too, then the 90%+ of horses which are not top show quality have no market, unless you are happy to sell them for pet/human consumption.
Anter was a horse who provided balance and functionality. Yes, if you are trying pick a fault he was *very slightly* long in the back for a stallion - but not so much so as to be incorrect. In any case, this is nothing like so bad a problem as a non-existent shoulder. And any experienced breeder knows a plain head is simpler to correct than poor structure.
Thank you Ralph for starting this discussion - it raises some important points about horses who are all "sausage" but had no-one to raise a "sizzle" for them!
Basilisk
This is in regard to the post #50 on this topic, by "Eyegor": could you please tell us the name and pedigree of the chestnut stallion in the two photographs you posted, which you said that you owned until the age of 29?? He looks so familiar, for some reason, and especially in the younger picture, but I just have not been able to come up with a name! In any event, he was lovely - both in youth and in old age. Thank you in advance.
hello Guest,
Kazmeen Ibn Shiko, 0123443, this is a straight Pritzlaff stallion born in 1975, bred by the Coffeys and sired by Shiko Ibn Sheikh and out of Bint El Sarie.
Sadly we never really bred him heavily and now, alas, only three of his babies are left here with us.
The three here to this day are Curly, 0594045 a son out of RG Iris, one filly out of DA Serendipity, 0577124 and another filly out of Sara Moniel, 0608540.
PS all photos taken by Tous Crins
Kazmeen Ibn Shiko, 0123443, this is a straight Pritzlaff stallion born in 1975, bred by the Coffeys and sired by Shiko Ibn Sheikh and out of Bint El Sarie.
Sadly we never really bred him heavily and now, alas, only three of his babies are left here with us.
The three here to this day are Curly, 0594045 a son out of RG Iris, one filly out of DA Serendipity, 0577124 and another filly out of Sara Moniel, 0608540.
PS all photos taken by Tous Crins
Here is Bahir Ibn Kazmeen, picture taken last sunday
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Is that you Joe? (Eyegor)... Which one is the Anter combination?Lovely photos by the way Christine!!
You can come here and bring your camera anytime Judi
This is Bint Amira Moniet, by Almas Lahib and out of Amira Moniet.
OOPS Sorry, the dang ENTER button jumped at me hand.
The grey in the foreground is Bint Amira Moniet. The black bay in the rear is Elizabeth of Nile, while the bay is RG Iris the dam of Bahir Ibn Kazmeen.
The grey in the foreground is Bint Amira Moniet. The black bay in the rear is Elizabeth of Nile, while the bay is RG Iris the dam of Bahir Ibn Kazmeen.
Here is an Anter grand-son,
GLENGLADE SADAT 1977 Chestnut Stallion
Out Of: GLENGLADE DAHIRA by ANSATA EL NASERI
Sired By: *ZAHID by ANTER
Pictures taken last week at 29 years old, alive and kicking thanks to the TLC provided by Chiron.
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
GLENGLADE SADAT 1977 Chestnut Stallion
Out Of: GLENGLADE DAHIRA by ANSATA EL NASERI
Sired By: *ZAHID by ANTER
Pictures taken last week at 29 years old, alive and kicking thanks to the TLC provided by Chiron.
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
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