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hotspurhartley
Thank you everybody for your kind comments sbout Keyser, he really is special.

We felt he did fantastic at Towerlands finishing 3rd behind the excellent Baanderos (junior male champion) in a very strong class, after his two regional shows- Northern England where he was junior male champion and supreme champion (res) and Staffs where again he was junior male champion and supreme champion (res).

We are now looking forward to Keyser's first show abroad later this month.

Dawn & Danny Hartley
gbfahne.gif HOTSPUR ARABIANS
Justine Bassindale
Well done Dawn and Danny with your special colt, Keyzer Soze, he looked fantastic.
Plus a big applause should go to Janine Mc gregor, she made a fantastic and professional job of presenting Keyzer. Janine received congratulations afterwards from many people including professional European Trainers.
biggrin.gif gbfahne.gif
CONGRATULATIONS
Justine
Sal
Malthouse, that is even better. Do you have a photo to put on here. Please. smile.gif gbfahne.gif
Guest_K8E_*
I agree, this colt is a little star!! He also has a temperement to die for, so sweet! Janine did a fantastic job and we all did our share of shouting cheering and whistlering as he went round that arena!!

Good Luck at his next show wink.gif

Katie, Bill and Heather
Europa Arabians
biggrin.gif gbfahne.gif biggrin.gif
kansas sam
WOW!
I did not realize that both Marwan colts were at the same farm in Great Britain.
Keyser Soze certainly is on his way to make his mark and I think it is wonderful that you do not wish to rush Marwan Kasaneuv, with glowing references from one of the most influential men in World Arabians and what appears to be a great team at Hotspur farm I am sure that both horses are in real good hands.
Do you have any photographs of Marwn Kasaneuv?
Michelle Salmon
Here is Marwan Kasaneuv biggrin.gif
doinja
Hallo to all,
I just wantet to make a litlle remark on the comments given to Al Lahabs score on movement compared to Vody for example.At the start of any class all horses walk around the judges.This is so that the judges can already see more or less how they want this class placed.The scores in individual judging are used more or less to get each horse placed where the judges whant them to be placed.If they whant Lahab to win the class they have to lift the movement scores up a little.with 5 times 18 he might not win.So scores are just a helping tool to get the horses placed a certain way.This is how I see it anyway.And many judges have told me this is how they work.
Sal
What is the point of going through a complete farce of a show with 5 judges all giving points then? You might as well have the English system, comparative system to start!

All the points we write down are incorrect then? complete waste of my time then?
tongue.gif
Oliver
No, tit's not a "waste" but Guest and Pertra B perfectly described how the judging is done.
You need a winner in each class - and you need the right horse to be the winner.
I can only repeat what was said before: The marks are no absolute marks in comparison
to the "ideal" horse but to compare the horses in each class and make the horse number one
who appeals most to the judges. If they would not compare the horses - like it was done in the
first years of this system - we would come up with several horses in each class which have
an almost identical score. Sometimes you see that at shows and it's not only very boring but
you really don't get a clue what the judges like or dislike. If they want to make it absolutely
sure that their favourite horse wins the class, they have two possibilities

a ) to judge "their" winner accordingly to his quality and mark the others down
b ) to lift the marks for "their" winner and judge the others accordingly

Solution "b" seems the better way for all...
Eagleridge Arabian Farm
Congratulations to all the winners at Towerlands, I am absolutely thrilled with Passionata's wub.gif Reserve Championship and wished I could have been there to see her compete, also at Borgloon where she was Champion mare. Congratulations to Sheikh Ammar, Frank & all concerned. biggrin.gif

I get the impression that many people confuse show attitude, pump & snort with correct movement. A good judge can evaluate a horses movement just by watching it walk, I often wonder if there should be a separate mark for show attitude. As some horses can display fabulous show attitude with animated movement but not necessarily move correctly, and visa versa.

Cheers
Jenni
Oliver
Jenni
Passionata really is the best ambassador for your breeding programme.
Wherever she appeared she won over judges and visitors alike.
Great lady from Downunder!
Can't wait to see her competing at the All Nations Cup.
Disappointed & upset
QUOTE (Oliver @ Sep 7 2006, 09:50 AM)
No, tit's not a "waste" but Guest and Pertra B perfectly described how the judging is done.
You need a winner in each class - and you need the right horse to be the winner.
I can only repeat what was said before: The marks are no absolute marks in comparison
to the "ideal" horse but to compare the horses in each class and make the horse number one
who appeals most to the judges. If they would not compare the horses - like it was done in the
first years of this system - we would come up with several horses in each class which have
an almost identical score. Sometimes you see that at shows and it's not only very boring but
you really don't get a clue what the judges like or dislike. If they want to make it absolutely
sure that their favourite horse wins the class, they have two possibilities

a ) to judge "their" winner accordingly to his quality and mark the others down
b ) to lift the marks for "their" winner and judge the others accordingly

Solution "b" seems the better way for all...
*


Sorry, Oliver, but this is makes no sense at all. And it is certainly not best for all, it is in fact completely and totally unfair. You are saying, in effect, that judges have no regard for the qualities, the components that make up a good horse? If they want a horse to win, it doesn't have to be the best one? I really, really, really hope you are wrong.

The best horse should win, always. And the best horse is the one who deserves the highest total score in his class, spread out over each of the five categories. It is that simple. That's what the scores are for!

If one horse has the best legs in his class, then he should have the highest leg scores, but unless his legs are perfect, that score must never ever be 20. And yes, then the judges have to give the competitors, who have worse legs, lower scores. Simple. But fair. The scores are there to make judging desicions translucent, and educational. At least that's what I was hoping for.

If you are right, and it really is a comparative system, well then let's be honest about it. Skip the points!
Then we'll soon be where the US main ring halter is today.... Fantastic.
Eagleridge Arabian Farm
Hi Oliver

Thank you so much, we are so proud of her wub.gif smile.gif and ever so thankful to Ajman stud and Frank for giving her this opportunity.

We love the feature Aleksi has done on the Elran cup smile.gif I never dreamt we would have a horse that we bred in one of your features smile.gif smile.gif



Cheers
Jenni
Oliver
QUOTE (Disappointed & upset @ Sep 7 2006, 10:15 AM)
Sorry, Oliver, but this is makes no sense at all. And it is certainly not best for all, it is in fact completely and totally unfair. You are saying, in effect, that judges have no regard for the qualities, the components that make up a good horse? If they want a horse to win, it doesn't have to be the best one? I really, really, really hope you are wrong.

The best horse should win, always. And the best horse is the one who deserves the highest total score in his class, spread out over each of the five categories. It is that simple. That's what the scores are for!
*


I didn't say it's "the best for all". biggrin.gif Read carefully.
"If they want a horse to win, it doesn't have to be the best one?"
I never said this and you twisted my words completely. Of course the horse a judge sees
as the best one should win - and with this method it surely does...

"And the best horse is the one who deserves the highest total score in his class, spread out over each of the five categories."
No, it's not that simple. It's wishful thinking. I would suggest that you try to judge a class with
sixteen different horses in it. Then you'll see what I mean.
In reality the "European" judging combines the "absolute" system (agianst the "ideal")
with the comparative system. If you wouldn't do that you would end up (at least at the big shows)
with three or more horses in each class with an identical score. Then you need to re-judge
these horses. What's the difference?

It was never possible to compare the marks of different shows with each other -
you even can not compare the maeks of the same show from different years. Why?
I give you an example: At the All Nations Cup the quality of the contenders sometimes is so
even that judges have to give extreme marks for some horses (marks that are way too high
for the horse when look at it in an objective way) to pick a winner!
These are no absolute or definite marks! At another show the very same horse might compete with average horses and
a "normal" score (that means: more objective!) is sufficent to win.
Marks given at a show are a reflection of both the individual quality of the horse and the quality of the whole class.

And another thing to think about : When I read what you hve written I get the feeling that you
have forgotten that we are all human beings. Every judge has its own taste. There is no such thing
as an "objective" or "definite" score for a horse. One judge sees it this way, another completely different. But that's another story... dry.gif
Paolita and Farida
Dear Jenny

Passionata deserves completely her recent important titles, in Europe. She is absolutely one of the most beautiful Mares we have actually in the International Show circuits and you know, that she has a lot of fans here.... smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

I am sure you are very proud of her!!!!

All the best

Paola
Sal
I understand what you say Oliver, but with using points in a big and strong class such as All Nations, what happens to the first horse in it's class when it enters the ring for judging? OK, they have done the walk around, and judges can see which one they like best, but if it happens to be the first one in, then they have to be very strong to keep the marks high for that one.
First horse in the class is at a disadvantage. So, the points system is not very fair.

We only go for the ride tongue.gif who cares anyway laugh.gif why do we get so serious biggrin.gif
?????
I don't quite understand.

If you have two horses stood still side by side, both of the highest quality, one is a bit better than the other to look at but doesn't move, the other is only just not as pleasing on the eye but is an excellent mover, surley you can't bump up the non movers points just to ensure he wins the class?? If that is so, what is the point of judging movement in the first place, you might as well judge a horse standing still?

I think all horses should be judged by the way they look and perform on the day. Surely that is the whole point?

At this years towerlands there was one horse who trotted round twice. Don't get me wrong, he was IMO the best horse in the class, but he got the chance to trott round twice..... I don't know why, but the only reason I can think is because he didn't trott at all first time around and so was given a second chance so that the judges would be given the opportunity to reward him with maximum points. A classic example of what is discussed here.
IMO, it IS at the judges descretion, but personally I think the you should get one chance like everyone else, and if your horse doesn't perform well on that day then its tough, you should be marked accordingly.
Disappointed etcetera
QUOTE (????? @ Sep 7 2006, 04:44 PM)
If you have two horses stood still side by side, both of the highest quality, one is a bit better than the other to look at but doesn't move, the other is only just not as pleasing on the eye but is an excellent mover, surley you can't bump up the non movers points just to ensure he wins the class??
*


My point exactly.

Instead, use the scores to reward what's good and penalise what is not so good. And if your "favourite" doesn't win? Well maybe there was a better horse in the class after all, but less to your taste. Fair enough.

The problem that Oliver also points out, that many horses can get almost identical total scores is NOT a problem caused by the points system in itself, in my opinion. It is caused by the poor USE of the points system - if judges would use numbers outside the 17-20 range - here's a thought: make a 10 average! - this problem would be gone.

Of course judging is subjective. But there are degrees of subjectivity, and to not lose the point of showing these breeding classes altogheter we need to strive for as objective a subjectivity as possible......

When I go to a show to get my horse evaluated by international judges, I want to know what they feel are his strong and weak points, I don't care so much about which horse they "like" best. The latter is much more subjective. I expect judges to be experienced horsemen/-women who will not just be duped by the cutest ears or most flamboyant performance or whatever. But maybe that is naive. I hope not.
giggsy
Well you can't please all of the people of the time..... I personally enjoyed Towerlands very much and came home with very sore hands from all the clapping!! A huge congratulations to all the owners and trainers of these fabulous horses they did you proud!!! and as someone who had three horses entered although in some cases we may not have recieved our best results I still loved every minute of seeing them in the ring and came home happy! biggrin.gif It seems no matter the show, the winners, the points or the judges somebody is going to be unhappy and have a good moan......and to these people i say Get over it and start enjoying it......BRING BACK THE FUN!! biggrin.gif
Oliver
"The problem that Oliver also points out, that many horses can get almost identical total scores is NOT a problem caused by the points system in itself, in my opinion. It is caused by the poor USE of the points system - if judges would use numbers outside the 17-20 range - here's a thought: make a 10 average! - this problem would be gone."

Dear "Disapponted"

I agree 100% with you.
barbara.gregory
Haven't had time to read this forum again until now. I liked all of the "Marwan" stock at Towerlands, he is doing a very good job, yes I was at Towerlands. It is my birthday weekend and is my treat to myself, I never miss it. As I said earlier, there were very few colts/stallions I would have gelded whereas a few years ago I would have gelded over half of them!

As for Al Lahab versus Vody, sorry, they are chalk and cheese. Vody has the most wonderful movement and temperament but breed standard wise he could never compete with Al Lahab, I know I am now going to get mega flack but you only have to stand the two in the same ring to see the difference. If you took away Vodeley's movement he would never win. I feel his magic the same as everyone else when he starts to trot but he does not have the quality of Al Lahab, sorry.

Barbara
gbfahne.gif
Guest
barbara,

That definatly depends on taste smile.gif I would choose Vody over Al Lahab anytime! Type is not everything (as many people seem to think), and Vody might not breed on an extreme head, but he suddenly have som nice babies on the ground! and he got a personality to die for wub.gif wub.gif
He is not just a horse, but your best friend wub.gif
And boy, was he lucky not to be born as a "seahorse" cos the life those horses have is no life at all sad.gif But this old guy still acts like a happy little boy at 23 years old! tongue.gif The chance Al Lahab will be here when he is the same age is small, the chances he will die from stress, colic or something else is too big... Wonder when he gets the time to go in the pasture, have a horse life, and taste the grass sad.gif
I bet if he could choose himself he would never have choosen to be a showhorse! Poor Al Lahab, and the rest of the extreme showhorses. It always makes me sad to think of those horses, and even more to see them in the ring, so nervous and scared.

But honestly the Towerlands show was a joy to watch most of the time, the points didnt make any sence, but beside that, it's the first time I have seen so many "amature" handlers at an A-show, showing their horses better than the pro's, and the Liberty classes were great fun!
Guest
QUOTE (Guest @ Sep 8 2006, 11:17 PM)
barbara,

That definatly depends on taste smile.gif I would choose Vody over Al Lahab anytime! Type is not everything (as many people seem to think),
*



If you feel this way, why breed Arabians then, blink.gif

Arabian Type is absolutely everything!!! as Type is not just a pretty face it is the whole package, and Lahab has it all smile.gif smile.gif Vody doesnt dry.gif
Guest
I really must say, Al Lahab is a very sweet and well mannered stallion-
he came up to me to presented himself- a real gentleman biggrin.gif

And just look at his offspring... no question they are beautiful and also
have very animated movement.
No doubt, they will also be extremely gorgeous under saddle one day-
if the owners only wish to ride them... wink.gif
guest-unreg
Doinja said re the first walk round 'This is so that the judges can already see more or less how they want this class placed.'

I hope not - surely that would make this the 'comparative method' as they judge in England - surely this is not the European method with the 3 judges ? I do not believe this to be correct, please advise. Perhaps there should not be a first walk round?
.
Guest
I think Vody got plenty of type! but not extreme!
I dont know if you ever saw Vody! it dosent sound like it! but no one would mistake him for being anything else than an arabian! Just a different type than the extremes shown today, which looks more like something from another planet sad.gif

But maybe you want horses that is not respected by anyone else than people who loves the pretty face? No one I know outside the arabian horse world thinks those are a pretty pretty horses! and it makes me sad to hear their mean comments about the arabian, but actually I can see why they dont like them.
But of course it's an arrogant world we are living in, and arabian horse people dont care about the "outsides" opinion, cos they suddenly dont know anything about horses, but wake up, you cant keep living in your own little isolated show world...

I think it would be fun to get a judge from the outside (maybe a dressage judge or a judge from the warmblood horses) to judge at a show and see what they would prefer wink.gif I think you would be surprised to see what kind of horse he would choose, and that would be the one who could be ridden...

An arabian is an arabian regardless how much dish and tailcarriage it got, the most important thing for me is that the horse can be used and have a loving dispossition! Plain headed?? doesnt matter, it's not the dish that makes it look arabian smile.gif
Guest
QUOTE (Guest @ Sep 8 2006, 11:40 PM)
I think Vody got plenty of type! but not extreme!
I don't know if you ever saw Vody! it doesn't sound like it! but no one would mistake him for being anything else than an arabian! Just a different type than the extremes shown today, which looks more like something from another planet sad.gif

But maybe you want horses that is not respected by anyone else than people who loves the pretty face? No one I know outside the arabian horse world thinks those are a pretty pretty horses! and it makes me sad to hear their mean comments about the arabian, but actually I can see why they don't like them.
But of course it's an arrogant world we are living in, and arabian horse people don't care about the "outsides" opinion, cos they suddenly don't know anything about horses, but wake up, you cant keep living in your own little isolated show world...

I think it would be fun to get a judge from the outside (maybe a dressage judge or a judge from the warm-blood horses) to judge at a show and see what they would prefer wink.gif I think you would be surprised to see what kind of horse he would choose, and that would be the one who could be ridden...

An arabian is an arabian regardless how much dish and tail-carriage it got, the most important thing for me is that the horse can be used and have a loving disposition! Plain headed?? doesn't matter, it's not the dish that makes it look arabian smile.gif
*



Arabian Type is not just a pretty face no doubt, it is about balance SHORT BACK, skin and hair quality the overall picture the horse makes, Lahab makes a wonderful balanced overall picture he would still be a very typey arabian even if his head was not as extreme as it is, that is just the icing on the cake in my books.

Vody has some problems with balance and overall quality he is a super show horse again no doubt and even if he had an extreme head he would not make the same picture as Lahab, I am with you Barbara you can not possibly compare the 2.

This is not meant to be mean to Vody he is just not in the same league as Lahab, and to be honest I think you would be very surprised what a warm-blood judge would select, I have the feeling that they would go for the more balanced horse with a smoother cadence, I cannot really imagine riding Vody all that flamboyance would be difficult to sit to, however I can seriously imagine myself riding Lahab he tracks up from behind uses his shoulder very well is free in the elbows just a beautiful horse.
Guest
OK this is meant to be an intelligent discussion. Why does it always come down to battering individuals horses?
The poor owners of both these horses will feel awful, and who cares which is better? both arabs have something to offer. You can use one to get extra movement in your stock, or use the other for the pretty head.
The choice is yours, no need to pull them apart publically.
Guest
Lahab has a lot more to offer than just a pretty head. He has excellent conformation and a pretty good pedigree as well, as I said before he would still be a very correct and typey Arabian even if his head was not as extreme as it is.
Disappointed etcetera
QUOTE (barbara.gregory @ Sep 8 2006, 10:33 PM)
As for Al Lahab versus Vody, sorry, they are chalk and cheese.  Vody has the most wonderful movement and temperament but breed standard wise he could never compete with Al Lahab, I know I am now going to get mega flack but you only have to stand the two in the same ring to see the difference.  If you took away Vodeley's movement he would never win.  I feel his magic the same as everyone else when he starts to trot but he does not have the quality of Al Lahab, sorry.

Barbara
gbfahne.gif
*



If you read the thread you will realise that the issue was certainly not that Vody should have won over Al Lahab. Al Lahab is a lovely stallion.

The issue was that Vody certainly deserves a whole lot better movement scores than Al Lahab, but that was not the outcome. The discussion concerns why this is so.

I for one do not think it is OK for a horse to get better movement scores because he is typier! And there is just no other way I can interpret the results in this case. I saw the footage of Lahab showing. Very nice, sure, but not deserving 20s for movement, surely.
If Al Lahab merits 20s for movements, then what is fair for a trotting machine like Vody? huh.gif And these horses are just examples, this happens a l l t h e t i m e.

Agreed, judging is subjective, but we better make it a little less so, or the point is lost all together. Circus, I believe someone said. Well, that's a shame that we have to feel that way.
Guest
Are you sure you are not confusing attitude with correct movement, so many people actually think because a horse shows lots of animation than it is a good mover, this is not so, perhaps the judges were looking for correct movement not just animated flamboyant movement.

Often horses that are trotting machines can not canter or walk to save themselves, IMO movement should be judged on far more than just a fancy trot. Perhaps this is what the judges were looking for at Towerlands as Lahab does move correctly and with adequate animation.
Disappointed etcetera
Yes I'm sure. wink.gif

None of them is a poor mover. I think there is insufficient cadence, elasticity and hock action in one to merit top scores, however I see a hollow back in the other. So, maybe none of them deserves 20s, to be really strict? Fair enough. But I still don't think the scores given is a good reflection of reality, and that is my problem.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. No harm in that.
Emancy
"I think it would be fun to get a judge from the outside (maybe a dressage judge or a judge from the warmblood horses) to judge at a show and see what they would prefer "

What would be the point of this???? huh.gif huh.gif

These horse aren't competing in a show jumping arena or dressage arena, they're competing in an in-hand breed class and are there to be judged on their closeness to the breed standard otherwise we may as well start talking warmbloods into the Arabian in-hand show and throwing our dummies out of the pram if they don't get placed and then boo'ing on the forums!!!! blink.gif blink.gif

"I think it would be fun to get a judge from the outside (maybe a dressage judge or a judge from the warmblood horses) to judge at a show and see what they would prefer "

THIS WOULD BE LIKE ASKING A CATTLE JUDGE TO JUDGE AT A CAT SHOW - IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!!!!!!
Guest
QUOTE (Disappointed etcetera @ Sep 9 2006, 11:57 AM)
Yes I'm sure.  wink.gif 

however I see a hollow back in the other. So, maybe none of them deserves 20s, to be really strict? Fair enough. But I still don't think the scores given is a good reflection of reality, and that is my problem.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. No harm in that.
*


Interesting you say this, IMO many of the very flamboyant trotting machines do hollow their backs and trail their hocks with their front legs pulling themselves along as against pushing from behind. It does look very impressive to the untrained eye, but a dressage judge would never go for this kind of movement. dry.gif and it is not correct movement at all but does look impressive I admit..... smile.gif
Guest
QUOTE (Emancy @ Sep 9 2006, 01:49 PM)
"I think it would be fun to get a judge from the outside (maybe a dressage judge or a judge from the warmblood horses) to judge at a show and see what they would prefer "

What would be the point of this???? huh.gif  huh.gif

These horse aren't competing in a show jumping arena or dressage arena, they're competing in an in-hand breed class and are there to be judged on their closeness to the breed standard otherwise we may as well start talking warmbloods into the Arabian in-hand show and throwing our dummies out of the pram if they don't get placed and then boo'ing on the forums!!!!  blink.gif  blink.gif

"I think it would be fun to get a judge from the outside (maybe a dressage judge or a judge from the warmblood horses) to judge at a show and see what they would prefer "

THIS WOULD BE LIKE ASKING A CATTLE JUDGE TO JUDGE AT A CAT SHOW - IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!!!!!!
*


What's the point in using judges that doesnt know what a good trot should look like wink.gif At least most dressage judges know what they are talking about, most of the show judges dont!
Liz Salmon
Here's a happy photo I took of him with Michael at the Egyptian Event.
barbara.gregory
Thank you for the lovely photo of Al Lahab, Liz, he looks so relaxed and content. I saw him in his stable at Towerlands and he was a real sweetie, a very nice character.

I was not bashing Vody, I could watch him trotting all day even though I am not sure that I would agree it is the correct way for an arab to move and I have been in his stable with him when he was owned by Mr Gucci and he has the most amazing temperament. i was merely giving my opinion for which I knew I would get a lot of flack. If you refer back to my previous post I actually stated that I too thought that the movement marks for Al Lahab seemed high. I was several rows up in the stands and one gets a different angle from the judges. As far as I am concerned the best horse won the class and I chose the same two horses the judges did as my champion and reserve.

To the person who asked if I was at Towerlands; I would not have commented if I wasn't, I go every year, I love it. At the end of the day we all chose the horse we like, that is one of the reasons there is such a diversity of "types" and Vody is not my type but that doesn't mean I can't see what others see in him. There are lots of big winners who don't do it for me but we are all entitled to our own opinion and if we all liked the same then there would not be the diversity we see.

At the end of the day Towerlands was a great show with lots of lovely horses and I am sure most people there had a great time. Roll on next year!

Barbara
Aleksi
Full coverage of the classes and championships
is online in the INTERNATIONAL section.
Enjoy! biggrin.gif
Guest_Simon_*
Thank you for the beautiful photos. As always, very well done! biggrin.gif
Guest_Iris_*
Alexi
Now I know what UKIAHS means. biggrin.gif
Aleksi
... now that I have done the layout for Towerlands I know it, too! laugh.gif
Guest_Peggy_*
A+ for the nice report
joycehbrand
So chuffed that my mare 'Shamila Amira' is on the Towerlands photo page. Its so nice to see ridden horses. I was over the moon that she was reserve Supreme at Towerlands and so nice to see a photo on the site. As she was bred by me, I'm doubly proud!
Oliver
You have every right to be a proud "mama"! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
joycehbrand
Thanks Oliver
barbara.gregory
Thanks for the great Towerlands report, Oliver and Aleski, and well done Joyce (and everyone else) with your super horses. Towerlands is the highlight of my year!!!! And a huge "thank you" to all those who work so hard to give us this show.

smile.gif biggrin.gif smile.gif biggrin.gif smile.gif biggrin.gif
Oliver
Some more photos of the ridden horses were added now.
doinja
I have read all the discussion following up on my comments about the judging system.I just wanted to say that the (more or less)placing of the horses in the first walk arround is something that is known for as long as i have been in the buisness of showhorses.(28 years).And second i would like to ask the people with comments to at least give us your firstname.I am not pleased to see that people use GUEST as a name when they argue my words.Thank you in advance.
Guest
]
QUOTE (Guest @ Sep 9 2006, 01:59 PM)
Interesting you say this, IMO many of the very flamboyant trotting machines do hollow their backs and  trail their hocks with their front legs pulling themselves  along as against pushing from behind. It does look very impressive to the untrained eye, but a dressage judge would never go for this kind of movement.  dry.gif and it is not correct movement at all but does look impressive I admit..... smile.gif
*



I would say this is using the back very well! Alot better than many!
freida
Can i please have some photos from this show of Psy Dream
he was in the yearling colt class I was not at the show but have been told good things of him.
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