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ELAcrisi
I found this horse in the web and my first idea was - this horse is looking like Bairactar.

What do you think will be the judgement in the modern European show scene, also American and Arabian countrieswould be interesting.

I'm very curious about your ideas

Christina
Roger
My gosh! Where did you find those pictures. What an incredible looking horse. I personally couldn't care less how he did in the show ring. I'd breed to him in a heart beat. Who is that?
daniela-eva
hi
this stallion should be "estashan" by malik out of estasha. one question - who made the painting and when ?
daniela
Connyi
I think the painting is by Peter Upton.
LMGG
What a beautiful horse! I had to look at the photos twice to make sure they were of a real horse. Please tell me, if you can, what the pedigree is again, and where this horse is located.

LMG aka LMGG
ELAcrisi
Almost correct it's Estashan Ibn Estopa by Ibn Estopa x Estasha
Jonas S.
The painting is from the book "Arabischer Adel"
Sabine Akel
You are right it is Estashan ibn Estopa
He is owned by Mr Sardar in France www.nospamallowed.com you can contact him easily

greetings

Sabine Akel
www.cedaroak.com
Rodania
Hi Christina,

I can answer your question quite directly, if we agree on what makes a "Bairactar type". For me, this includes: a long, but very refined head with a straight profile, huge eyes and nostrils, a long, fine neck, a long, fairly level croup and slim, but well-proportioned legs with good joints. To put it in a nutshell.

Now, a stallion who perfectly conforms to this type and is actually a tail male descendant of Bairactar, Marbach's chief sire Dschehim, was shown at two shows last year. At the one I attended, he did get a good score and placed 3rd, but I had the impression that the judges didn't quite know what to do with him. His score for type was 18-19-18, which was all right (especially as he was very calm and not hyped up at all); head & neck 18-18-18 (nothing without a dish will ever go higher, it seems); conformation 17-17-18 (strange, as it really is excellent); legs 16-15-15 (even stranger - most show horses don't have legs as good as this), and movement a very odd 19-18-20 (well, at least one judge got it right!).
I did tell the Marbach representative who was there, that while the placing was all right, some of the scores definitely were not!
Anyway, I suspect, on account of the great similarity, that if Bairactar appeared at a show today, the results would be similar.

Betty

Click to view attachment
ELAcrisi
Hi Betty

thanks for your explanations. This is just what I expected will happen about type, head and neck.

Whe I look at this horse I said "wowh what type" and when I have to range after "modern type" there are points I would have to think about how to.

Christina
LMGG
Thank you , Christina for your information. If this horse is as he appears to be in the photographs, I would think breeders would be pounding down the owner's door to get to breed to him. Of course, a wonderful appearance does not a sire make, but it certainly is the step in the right direction, and he appears to have stepped right out of a Vernet or a de Dreux.

So very noble.

LMG aka LMGG
JMO
A very beautiful horse...can some one please clear something up for me. He has been identify as two different horses so far in this thread although similar in names and parts of pedigee. Is he is Estasan Ibn Estopa ( Ibn Estopa - Bint Estawa) and is he a past World Champion ?
wallanger
Reminds me of Tohutmos and Soufian very elegant and correct.
I do believe like someone else stated in forum prior,
If everything else is the same on the competing horse but competing horse has a more extreme head I believe the more exotic headed horse will win.
Still There have historically been lots of success full show horses like Moniet el Sharaf.
I have to add I love the tread and I also have to say that what some people call the Old desert look has to have like the horse pictured a tiny teacup mussle to carry the less pronounced Jibbah and still look very Arabian.
I think it's even genetically interesting to mention that some individuals have produced
extreme heads although themselves where not very exotic.
Love your horse
Paul Huzevka
When I enter the www name www.nospamallowed.com referenced above it does not take me anywhere. Is the name correct? It sounds strange. Did anyone else try to contact or connect to the owner? This horse looks excellent.

Regards, Paul
oli
Another ESTASHAN IBN ESTOPA (Ibn Estopa x Estasha) Photo. He is a fullbrother to Estashama Ibn Estopa. We have 2 beautiful Estashama daughters by Nabya Ibn Gharib. One is in foal to the above mentioned Dschehim. So I am still waiting for my "Bairactar-foal"...

Photo: (van Lent ?)
Susanne Boesche
QUOTE (Connyi @ Jan 6 2007, 03:14 PM)
I think the painting is by Peter Upton.
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The painting is by Carl heinz Dömken, published in the book Stammpferde der Araberzucht.
Sabine Akel
I m sorry thewebsite s name was erased This is for sure Estashan ibn Estopa he is standing in France at Shah arabians tel 00 33 2 54 98 20 80
or google them under shah-arabians to get to their website

sincerely
Sabine
Uli Weckenmann
The Horse shown by Al Acrisi is definitely Estashan Ibn Estopa by Ibn Estopa out of Estasha. Both parents are Shaker el Masri x Estopa. He lives at Shah Arabians - try to google this name, owned by Ali Sardar in France.
I know this wonderful horse personally and bred to him four times with excellent results. Mr. Sardar uses him on his high quality russian bred mares and those results are stunning too.
Estashan is not only a very exotic stallion, although he lacks the extreme dish, but very athletic and about 160 cm tall in contrast to Bairactar who was tiny as judged by his skelleton shown at the museum in Marbach. Estashan has a wonderfull disposition too! As a youngster he was shown and had one Reserve Championship (and may be one Championship, I`m not sure) and several class wins.
As we breed Arabians for endurance, Estashan seems to produce good riding horses . Zumurud (out of Dschamilja Bint Scha Ze Man) is very successful, wins almost every race she enters and Bashasha ( out of Quahira) did an excellent broodmares Performance test in endurance, coming in first on her 4th endurance ride, going 60 km at a speed of 3,4 min/km. She is a broodmare now in our stud. Both mares tested on endurance so far are very ambitious.
Anyway Estashan and Shah Arabians in France is well worth a visit.
Connyi
QUOTE (Susanne Boesche @ Jan 7 2007, 09:17 AM)
The painting is by Carl heinz Dömken, published in the book Stammpferde der Araberzucht.
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Oops blink.gif I'm really sorry about mixing them up...
Oliver
I am pretty sure judges would still place Estashan Ibn Estopa very high. Why not?
He has everything that make an Arabian horse special.
Many other horses in the shworing today have not the extreme dish but still
can win at the big events.
As a youngster Estashan Ibn Estopa already won at many shows - he was one of my favourites in
the showring then. In 1991 he was named unanimous Junior Champion Colt at
the International Show at Baden-Baden. And he was Junior CHampion Colt at
the International A Show in Wels in 1991. Pretty amazing record.
If he were shown in his senior years also I have no doubts he was named Champion Stallion many times!
LMGG
Personally, I see nothing wrong with this horse's head, it is beautiful. The eye is set properly in the head, the nostrils are at the end of the muzzle, he has a slight camel shape to the profile (which I prefer to the extreme deep dish, which may interfer with air intake) and he has a lovely shape to the head from the forward view. Taken as an entire individual, he is quite a horse.

I would like to see more of his foals, if anyone has pictures to post.

LMG aka LMGG
Paul Huzevka
I found their website, http://www.nospamallowed.com/uk/index.asp, I like the stallion very much. I wonder would he be SE?
Cheryl L
He is not SE. He is Egyptian-bred. He also has spanish arabian. What a beauty.
Cheryl
anitayoursweet666
I once had the pleasure of going to Haydock Arab Show with ML Arabians, Where Gaynor showed Estasan Ibn Estopa, He was of course crowned champion here in the uk, We had his son ML Ibn Estasan, by Lady Travina.

Has anyone ever heard of any of these, the name is very similar to the one in this forum.

I would love news on Estasan as he was a real character and bowed to the crowd when he was crowned champion, it is one of my favourite memories.
2mntn
Estashan Ibn Estopa is the result of a full-brother, full-sister mating - one which appears to have been successful. This horse should have great genetic strength in any mating - for good and bad, depending upon the mare he is bred to. He is a 1989 model, with 47 recorded offspring. Surprisingly, only 5 of those have bred on....assuming the Datasource info is relatively accurate. blink.gif

I thought of Morafic when I saw the pictures on Post #1. I understood why I thought that when his name became known and I looked him up on Datasource. Both sire lines to Morafic. Plus, I've said it before and I'll say it again - Estopa is at, or near, the top of my all-time favorite mares list. Put Morafic in that mix and hey! Gotta love it! biggrin.gif

Regards,
Ray
alice
QUOTE (anitayoursweet666 @ May 7 2007, 10:26 PM)
I once had the pleasure of going to Haydock Arab Show with ML Arabians, Where Gaynor showed Estasan Ibn Estopa, He was of course crowned champion here in the uk, We had his son ML Ibn Estasan, by Lady Travina.

Has anyone ever heard of any of these, the name is very similar to the one in this forum.

I would love news on Estasan as he was a real character and bowed to the crowd when he was crowned champion, it is one of my favourite memories.
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Estasan Ibn Estopa and Estashan Ibn Estopa are two different horses with a different look and a different pedigree.
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