I am just becoming invovled in breeding horses and am trying to identify the strains of some of the hroses I have. I have a colt out of a stallion called KWA Padrons Daily, AHR 569527. I am trying to identify the strain, but can't find any information on the dam, DAI Mystic Lace. Would someone please tell me how I would go about identifying the strain (which they tell me is from the dam's side) and how to begin research. Thanks.

Hello!

First, change your name to "greathorsz", then maybe someone will help you. Of course, I'm being silly.

I was told to keep on eye on e-Bay and buy whatever all reference books were available. There are some worthwhile suggestions on other threads, as well.

Your stallion is tail-female to Ferida (GSB*120, Bay 1886). I do not know the strain name offhand, but someone who does will be jumping on here to let us know.

Best of Luck
Ray

ooops! - the stallion KWA Padrons Daily is tail to Ferida. Happily, for me, DAI Mystic Lace has the same tail. So your colt will be pure-in-strain to the 1st gen. fo whatever we find the strain to be!

good grief! I should just go home. KWA Padrons Daily is OUT of DAI Mystic Lace, for cryin' out loud!! Need to know the name of the dam of your colt. Sire is KWA Padrons Daily, and dam is: ??

According to my information Ferida db is a Managiyeh Hedruj. Or however it is spelt

My colt is out of KWA Padrons Daily and a mare called "Sunra". That is her registered name. I know she is crabbet and polish bred, but not sure on the sire of the colt. KWA Padrons Daily is out of Padron and DAI Mystic Lace. I can't seem to find out any information on her and I still don't know about the strains of either. I don't know if they are russian, egyptian, egyptian-related, polish, crabbet, etc. I appreciate all your help.

Greatdogz,

Good news! The mare, Sunra, is of CMK (Crabbet, Maynesboro, Kellogg) breeding. Her tail-female traces to the famed war mare, *Wadduda. Her strain is Saqlawia. If you Google "wadduda", you will find many interesting items regarding this mare.

Your colt is Saqlawi in strain. The sire, KWA Padrons Daily, is a mixture of Russian, French, Egyptian, Polish and Crabbet.

I notice this colt is not registered - I hope you have the paperwork for him.

Best wishes,
Ray

P.S. if you can, please post a picture of your colt...thanks!

Everyone,

Thanks so much for your response. I have been having a heck of a time and didn't know where to start! I will post a picture of him as soon as I have time to take them (hopefully tomorrow!) What is DAI Mystic Lace's strain? I wasn't able to find any information on her outside of AHA datasource. Can you tell me how you went about finding the information you gave me so that way I could learn how to do the research? I will definitely go to the google site I was told about. Sunra was the first arab I ever bought and she's still going strong. She is was sold me on arabians. I love her dearly. She will be with me till the end. I will just be sick when she finally goes. She's 26 now. I hope she lives to at least 35! Thanks again for all your help.

Christi

Here are a few basics for you.

Strains were assigned by the Bedouin. Strains are not russian, egyptian, or whatever. They are Bedouin. They are a sort of "family" name, attached through the female line. Horses had both a strain and a sub-strain. The sub-strain was often associated with the specific tribe or family of the breeder. The strain of your mare is Saqlawiah Al-Abd. It means Saqlawi of the Slave. The history of that strain and sub-strain has to do with a Bedouin giving a mare to one of his slaves, so horses descended after that from that mare line carried that strain and sub-strain. Sub-strains could change because of significant events, or if a mare was stolen in battle and then became famous in the acquiring tribe. (The other major Saqlawi sub-strain is Jidraniyah).

Strains are of historic significance if that is interesting to you. Because of the somewhat closed breeding populations in the desert, some western travelers reported and wrote that certain strains had certain physical characteristics (you might think of it as a type fixed by close breeding). In modern times you can get a big fight going among folks about whether these physical characteristics are still connected with the strains. However, recent research challenges the historic information about some strain names.

There has been mitochondrial DNA research done which shows that Rodania, a famous mare taken from the desert by Lady Anne and Wilfred Blunt in 1881, and with the strain Kuhaylan Rodania (she was reportedby bred by Ibn Rodan of the Ruala tribe), has the SAME female ancestor as your mare (through *Wadduda - your mare's oldest recorded female ancestor - who was reported as Saqlawiah al-Abd). How can this be? No one knows. Strains could have been reported or understood differently. Or there could have been a mare stolen and her and her daughters' strains changed. We will probably never know.

Ferida was also taken by the Blunts from the desert; she is reported to be Muniqiyah-Hadrujiyah. There are male and female forms of the strain names. The male equivalent (would be applied to a stallion) would be Muniqi-Hadruj. You will find spellings vary a bit because of trying to turn Arabic language sounds into English.

The best resource for strain information for horses in the US is Al Khamsa (www.alkhamsa.org). There books are all out of print, but they have a new comprehensive volume due out soon. You can order one at pre-publication price for $40.

I better quit now. Oh, you will help others understand the pedigree of your horses if you adopt the convention 'Horse ### is BY stallion so and so and OUT OF mare so and so.

Anita
P.S. Your *Wadduda mare is from a line of long-lived and very productive mares. More on that later. The famous US stallion Khemosabi had the same dam-line.

Anita,

Oh, this is sooooo interesting! I can see where one can get hooked on just research alone! Thank you so much for taking the time to give me this information. I am becoming more and more fascinated with each reply! I had no idea about her background and I am glad to hear she comes for long-lived stock. It sounds like she comes from hearty stock as well. She has always been an easy keeper and really never gets sick. She has no hoof or leg problems and I am so lucky for her to have been my first arabian. So if I am understanding you right, horses can have the same strain, but be different in breeding whether they are russian, polish, crabbet, etc.? If a horse is straight egyptian or pure polish, that means only polish arabians were used or straight egyptians were used to breed? So how does one go about finding out what type the ancestors were? Does this only go back to 4 or 5 generations or do you have to go back further? I know, so many questions! I truly appreciate the answers though and am trying to learn. Thanks for your time.

Christi

Hi Christi
Getting into things like, "pure polish" etc. can get quite complicated, since a lot of the polish horses came from Crabbet bred stock, some came from the desert, some from other sources. There are a lot of wonderful books available that will help you to understand these different terms, and there is a wealth of information on this forum. Just type in which ever term you would like to have clarified in the "search forum" box at the bottom of the page and it will give you all sorts of answers. There are several threads about strains, as well.
Happy reading.
Cathy

Anita's sentence sums it all up... They are a sort of "family" name, attached through the female line. Though I'd drop the sort of ie strains are names. This is why/how mtDNA doesn't work for names. Strains are not physical types, they are names only. A naming system which stems from the illiterate (but not unintelligent) nomadic Bedouin to enable a formal verbal tracking system of asil mares and stallions used.

Unfortunately, the long term western effect has fostered types to strain names. Not ideal in the long term but it helped to categorise the variety within the Arabian Horse, particularly the asil desert horses. Though to be really understood, strain names should be accepted as names only and genetics as genetics ie physical types should be analysed and accepted as something biological.

Sometimes, the two (physical type and strain name) can be reconciled by descriptions given from the past via bloodlines (families) being used over and over but there's no permanent consistency when all factors are taken into account.