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LMGG
For those who like this sort of thing and women who answer the "Dating I.Q."
Quiz while waiting to have their hair done, here is a little Quiz for those who like historical perspectives.

1. In 1937 Vol. IV of the Arabian Stud Book of the Arabian Horse Club of America
was published. Later this volume and the previous ones were reissued with
changes. What were the changes and what were the alleged reasons for
the changes?

2. Sultan Abdul Hamid II made a gift to the President of the United States in 1879.
What was the gift, and who was the President?

3. In 1926 a group of horses were imported from the Crabbet Stud and went
to Pomona, California. Who was the imported, who was his agent and
name five of the horses in the importation.

4. In 1932, two of the first groups of Straight Egypitan Horses were imported
into the United States. Name the Importers , the Breeders of the Horses and
identify the horses.

5. Which of the above (number 4) horses have Straight Egyptian Descendants
in contemporary breeding?

6. In the 1950's, Alice Payne, suggested to a young man, that he should
consider a breeding program to preserve a group of horses who were
identified by the name of a political cartoonist.
a. Who was the political cartoonist and what political cartoon character is
he most famous for creating?
b. Who was the young man and what was the result of Ms. Paynes
advice?
c. What was the name of the stud farm of Alice Payne and name the
famous stallion upon which she founded her farm?

7. Raktha x Serafina produced two colts which were later imported into
the United States and became famous as sires of
outstanding US bred Arabian Horses. Name the breeder of these two
colts, their US importers and give the names of the colts.

8. Sol de Villa Ranch was the home of an imported polish mare, whose
grandson became one of the most famous Arabian Horses in the
United States. Name the owner of the ranch, the imported mare,
and her grandson.

9. In the United States, the Rogers Arabian stud started with five mares
selected in Saudia Arabian. Two came from the Royal Stud, two
came from the Bedouin and one from the ruling family of Bahrein.
What were the names of these mares, do they have living descendants,
and are any of them in present day Straight Egyptian pedigrees?

10. What was Sheykh Obeyd and who was Mutlak el Batal?

11. Austraiia has had a long and admired reputation for producing
outstanding horses of Crabbet lines. Name five of the early Crabbet
bred importations to Australia.

12. Name five contemporay Straight Egyptian horses which do not
have Crabbet bred horses in their Ancestory.

13. Identify the breeder of the "Heavenly Twins", give the name of these
horses, and their sire and dam.

14. Name five contemporary Polish bred horses which do not have
Crabbet bred horses in their Ancestory.

15. Who is Rudolf Valentino, what is he famous for? Name the
horse and the breeding of the horse he rode.

You can cheat all you want.

LMG (aka LMGG)
carolmaginn
These are questions for my walking encyclopedia... Where is he at? I have not seen a post from my favorite horse trivia friend in months!

Carol

QUOTE (LMGG @ May 28 2007, 06:57 PM)
For those who like this sort of thing and women who answer the "Dating I.Q."
Quiz while waiting to have their hair done, here is a little Quiz for those who like historical perspectives.

1.  In 1937 Vol. IV of the Arabian Stud Book of the Arabian Horse Club of America
    was published.  Later this volume and the previous ones were reissued with
    changes.  What were the changes and what were the alleged reasons for
    the changes?

2.  Sultan Abdul Hamid II made a gift to the President of the United States in 1879.
    What was the gift, and who was the President?
   
3.  In 1926 a group of horses were imported from the Crabbet Stud and went
    to Pomona, California.  Who was the imported, who was his agent and
    name five of the horses in the importation.

4.  In 1932, two of the first groups of Straight Egypitan Horses were imported
    into the United States.  Name the Importers , the Breeders of the Horses and
    identify the horses.

5.  Which of the above (number 4) horses have Straight Egyptian Descendants
    in contemporary breeding?

6.  In the 1950's, Alice Payne, suggested to a young man, that he should
    consider a breeding program to preserve a group of horses who were
    identified by the name of a political cartoonist.
    a.  Who was the political cartoonist and what political cartoon character is
          he most famous for creating?
      b.  Who was the young man and what was the result of Ms. Paynes
          advice?
      c.  What was the name of the stud farm of Alice Payne and name the
          famous stallion upon which she founded her farm?

7.  Raktha x Serafina produced two colts which were later imported into
    the United States and became famous as sires of
    outstanding US bred Arabian Horses.    Name the breeder of these two
    colts, their US importers and give the names of the colts.

8.  Sol de Villa Ranch was the home of an imported polish mare, whose
    grandson became one of the most famous Arabian Horses in the
    United States.  Name the owner of the ranch, the imported mare,
    and her grandson.

9.  In the United States, the Rogers Arabian stud started with five mares
    selected in Saudia Arabian.  Two came from the  Royal Stud, two
    came from the Bedouin and one from the ruling family of Bahrein.
    What were the names of these mares, do they have living descendants,
    and are any of them in present day Straight Egyptian pedigrees?

10.  What was Sheykh Obeyd and who was Mutlak el Batal?

11.  Austraiia has had a long and admired reputation for producing
        outstanding horses of Crabbet lines.  Name five of the early Crabbet
        bred importations to Australia.

12.  Name five contemporay Straight Egyptian horses which do not
      have Crabbet bred horses in their Ancestory.

13. Identify the breeder of the "Heavenly Twins", give the name of these
      horses, and their sire and dam.

14. Name five contemporary Polish bred horses which do not have
      Crabbet bred horses in their Ancestory.

15.  Who is Rudolf Valentino, what is he famous for? Name the
      horse and the breeding of the horse he rode. 

You can cheat all you want.

LMG (aka LMGG)
*
Lysette
I'll take #2--The President was Grant and the gift was two stallions--Linden Tree and Leopard

Can't wait to see all the answers!!
Nadj al Nur
Ok, so here's what I can remember, without doing a ton of research.
1........
2 Leopard and Linden Tree. President(General) Grant
3 Kellogg. 13 horses in the importation. Raswan as agent.. Horses were Raswan (of course) Raseyn- Rifla-Rossana- and I think Nasik was in that bunch too.

4 BROWN
HH Mohamed Ali's Hamama
" " "Hamida
Mahroussa
Metsur ?
Zariffe
Roda
Aziza
Nasr
Silver Yew? (not too sure about that one)
BABSON
Fadl
Maaroufa
Bint Serra
Bint Bint Sabbah
Bint Bint Durra
Bint Saada

5-Mahroussa-Fadl-Maroufa-Bint Bint Sabbah

6 a-Davenport
b Charles Craver (started with Tripoli) Craver Farms and the Davenport preservation program
c-Raffles- Asil Arabian Ranch

7 Both bred by Wentworth- Serafix, imp by Rogers and Silver Drift, imp by Kale

8...........
9 can only remember two. Thoraya came from Bahrain and Subhaiha from Ibn Saud
10 Lady Anne's stud at Ein Shems, just outside of Cairo. Mutlak was her Sais
11..........
12.........
13- Breeder, Lady Wentworth. Dancing Sunlight and Dancing Shadow. By Dargee, out of Shades of Night
14....................
15 Actor. The horse was Jadaan ( Abbeian X Amran)

So what's my score?
Cathy
Riverside Arabians
Yikes! I don't know much! And I admit I had to fill in some bits with "help"! tongue.gif

2) *LEOPARD and *LINDEN TREE were presented by the Sultan of Turkey to former President Grant. (Was it 1879 or 1878?)

3) In 1925 breakfast food millionaire W. K. Kellogg purchased 377 acres for $250,000 in Pomona as the site of his Arabian Horse Ranch. W.K. Kellogg's importation from the Wentworth Crabbet Stud in 1926 included: the SKOWRONEK influence to North America, a fact which sometimes overshadows the other important Crabbet sources represented. *NASIK and *FERDIN were the other breeding stallions of this importation; the latter became a broodmare sire of note. The aged *NASIK, with few crops left to him, gave quality daughters, the top broodmare sires FARANA and SIKIN, and founded a distinguished male line especially through RIFNAS. *RASEYN by SKOWRONEK left 135 registered foals and became one of the most influential sires in the history of the breed, with FERSEYN and SUREYN his most noted sons. *FERDA, *RIFLA, *ROSSANA, BAHREYN and *RASIMA were chief mares of this group.

4&5) Good info here: http://www.jamalarabians.com/egyptianarabians.htm
The first major importations from Egypt to America came in 1932. W.R. Brown of New Hampshire brought in a group of seven horses which included *Zarife, *Roda, *Nasr and *Aziza, all of whom appear in modern Egyptian pedigrees. *Zarife and *Roda are the parents of the black Hallany Mistanny, sire of 6 National winners and 19 producers of National winners. *Aziza's son Julep sired U.S. National Champion Stallion Synbad++ and U.S. National Champion Mare High Fashion++, among others. Unfortunately the Brown imports did not have as great a chance to influence modern American Egyptian breedings as those of the other group brought in the same year, the Babson importation.

After a multi-country search for Arabians that took him to England, France, Spain and Egypt, Henry Babson of Chicago imported seven horses from two different Egyptian studs. Of these, six had progeny and are found in current Egyptian breeding. Their enormous significance is beyond the scope of this article, but a book has been written about them entitled The Royal Arabians of Egypt and the Stud of Henry Babson (available from The Pyramid Society). For the record, the mares of the importation were *Bint Serra I, *Bint Bint Sabbah, *Maaroufa, *Bint Saada and *Bint Bint Durra. The latter two are rarer in pedigrees now. The only stallion of the importation was *Fadl, *Maaroufa's full brother.

From this seed stock Babson built an exceptional breeding program, which had some outcrosses to non-Egyptian lines for a number of years (through *Aldebar, *Sulejman, *Turfa and *Nimrod) as well as to some Nazeer-related horses like Ansata Abbas Pasha and *Ibn Moniet El Nefous. The outcrosses to horses unrelated to the 1932 imports ended some years ago, and the Babson farm will be ceasing breeding operations in 1998 after three generations of the family had maintained the horses.

6c) Raffles. Asil Arabian Ranch, Chino, California.

15) Actor R. Valentino- "Lawrence of Arabia".
While at Kellogg's, Jadaan did much to popularize the Arabian horse. He appeared in several movies including "Son Of The Sheik" starring Rudolph Valentino, and also took part in the Rose Parade.

What can others add?
K.
calicoarab
ok, you guys got a lot of the ones I knew already!

3. W K Kellogg- importer Carl Schmitt- agent Horses *Raswan, *Raseyn, *NAsik, *Rimal, *Ferda, *Farasin, *Ferdisia, *Rifala, *Rossana

8. Frisco Mari, *Szarza, and of course Khemosabi

Ok, got to go clean some stalls before racking my brain further!

Sandy Wilt
LMGG
6(a) A very important political cartoon character - you are going to be so surprised -

Good work so far.

LMG (aka LMGG)
Eyegor
QUOTE (Riverside Arabians @ May 28 2007, 11:55 PM)
15) Actor R. Valentino- "Lawrence of Arabia".
While at Kellogg's, Jadaan did much to popularize the Arabian horse. He appeared in several movies including "Son Of The Sheik" starring Rudolph Valentino, and also took part in the Rose Parade.

What can others add?
K.
*


Rudolph Valentino never made and never starred in Lawremce of Arabia. The movies involving Jaadan were "The Sheik" and or " The Son of the Sheikh". The leading part in Lawrence of Arabia was done by a British Actor, Peter O'Toole. (actually born in Ireland)
LMGG
I wondered who was going to catch that? Still waiting for the cartoon, and
some of the other questions. Will give answers when people give up.

LMG (aka LMGG)
Nadj al Nur
6-a- would it be the "Good enough for me" cartoon, with Lincoln and Rooseveldt?
Cathy
LMGG
Nope.

LMG (aka LMGG)
Riverside Arabians
Oops!
Goodness! I don't know what I was thinking about! Only 40 some years difference between those two movies! I apologize! Getting my handsome dark sheikhs confused! Maybe it's time for bed! tongue.gif
K.
Riverside Arabians
Did some more searching...
Are you thinking of "No Honest Man Need Fear Cartoons"?- one of Homer Davenport's most famous cartoons depicting Senator Platt and Boss Tweed?
When a ban of political cartoons was being debated?
I'll try to attach it...
LMGG
Nope.

LMG (aka LMGG)
Chiron
Rats sad.gif I had to leave for work so coming late to the party (not "THE PARTY" that one is in Paso Robles in October rolleyes.gif )
You guys got most of the ones I knew right off the top of my old head. But here's the one I had to really think about & I'm still not sure but.....Is the Homer Davenport
cartoon character you're looking for......William Randolph Hearst???? blink.gif
What a neat conection if it is, as in 1947 Hearst, trying to follow Davenport"s lead imported 14 horses from Syria biggrin.gif They did not breed forward as a closed group but several of the tail female line has come forward. (including one in my back yard tongue.gif )
Chiron
Back from chores. biggrin.gif
Question #!. The first 4 Arabian Stud Books listed the markings & gave the strain name when known. Not sure why they stopped with the markings (space maybe)
but seem to remember that the strain was dropped because it was thought to have no meaning to the "Western" breeder. unsure.gif
The John Rogers desert imports were the afore mentioned Thorayyah (from Bahrain) & Subaiha plus, Taffel (Subaiha's daughter) Bakhaitah & her daughter Muneerah from Saudi Arabia.. They were never sE & none came forward in the Al Khamsa group.
Eyegor
((((((((During the 1896 presidential campaign Hearst and Davenport supported William Jennings Bryan against the Republican candidate, William McKinley. As McKinley had an unblemished record in politics, it was decided to concentrate the attack on his campaign manager, Mark Hanna, the successful industrialist. After the election he produced a drawing, explaining how he had turned Hanna into an image of greed and manipulation. ))))))


http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/ARTdavenport.htm
Riverside Arabians
Wasn't it Hearst that was his biggest supporter?
Eyegor
He was also his boss......
Lysette
QUOTE (Nadj al Nur @ May 28 2007, 09:57 PM)
13- Breeder, Lady Wentworth. Dancing Sunlight and Dancing Shadow. By Dargee, out of Shades of Night
*


This was the one that was *really* driving me crazy! Thank you so much for posting the answer!
Riverside Arabians
Yes- it was the up and coming newspaper mogul William R. Hearst who recognized and channeled Homerís talent. And paid him handsomely for it!
LMGG
I'm quite impressed. My Vol. IV, gives the following discriptions:

No: 635 GHAZIL (A. S. B. 120375), ch. Seglawi-Jedran m. of the strain of Ibn Sudan of the Roala, with broad blaze extending over nose and lower lip, both hind two-thirds stockings, spot white under belly; Sire, Abu Zeyd 82; Dam, Hamida 509; Bred by W.R. Brown, Maynesboro Farm, etc.,

No: 626. KOLZEYD, ch. Seglawi-Jedran st.; wiht blaze, nigh front pastern white, fetlock and stocking, off hid pastern white, white under belly; Sire, Abu Zeyd 82; Dam, Kola 485; Bred by W.R Brown, Maynesboro Farm, etc.

This Volume of the Arabian Stud Book, gave complete discription, including warts (literally) and all. After a bit, as with many unsubstantiated rumors, body spots on Arabians were a supposed indication of "impure" blood and a death knell for a breeder who was producing horses with "spots."

While there may have been a much more acceptable reason for the Arabian Horse Club of America to change the format of the Stud Books, it was rumored that pressure had been brought on the Club to just state the minimum of necessary facts.

LMG (aka LMGG)
LMGG
The Cartoon Character was "Uncle Sam". Although "Uncle Sam" is alleged to have existed in various guises from the War of 1812 forward, Davenport was credited with creating an "Uncle Sam" which is the one recognized by most people today.

Bruce Walker wrote a poem specifically commenting on Davenport's realistic or lifelike rendition of this representation, "Expressing a nation's weal or sin."
"Homer Davenport at Silverton, Huot and Powers.

LMG (aka LMGG)
LMGG
Answer to No. 11 This may be a surprise to some.

a. Kars, a Seglawi Jedran (lines in America through Abu Zeyd)
b. Hadban, a Hadban Enzeyhi of the Oteybeh (left Nefisa and Rose of Sharon)
c. Dahna (Kars/Dahma)
d. Rose of Jericho (Kars/Rodania)
e. Namusa (Ahmar/Narghileh)

LMG (aka LMGG)
Kimberli Nelson
This thread has been one of the most fun to read and I thank you all for it!
LMGG
Thank you Kimberli and I thank everyone who responded. I just made a comment that twenty to twenty-five years ago, when it was so much harder to find out this information, so many people could rattle this information off the top of their heads without thinking about. Not only did they know their horses, but they also knew the pedigrees of horses they did not breed.

It is unfortunate that most do not know their horse's pedigrees beyond two, maybe three generations. It is essential, for one who claims to be a breeder or wants to be a breeder to have a working knowledge of pedigrees, not because they are going to take a quiz, but because one day, a foal may appear with a big white spot on it's stomach or side and when they stand there stunned, and ask, where did that come from, at least they can make an educated guess. And, this could be the least of a breeder's problems.

Come on, there are only two more questions to answer. I know you all know them.

LMG (aka LMGG)
Riverside Arabians
Cathy- you pretty much had it!
I did a quick search and found a pic:
Davenport drew Uncle Sam with his hand on the shoulder of T.R., and the caption "He's Good Enough For Me."
http://www.ochcom.org/davenport
anitae
QUOTE (Riverside Arabians @ May 28 2007, 11:55 PM)
Yikes! I don't know much! And I admit I had to fill in some bits with "help"!  tongue.gif
....

4&5) Good info here: http://www.jamalarabians.com/egyptianarabians.htm
The first major importations from Egypt to America came in 1932. W.R. Brown of New Hampshire brought in a group of seven horses which included *Zarife, *Roda, *Nasr and *Aziza, all of whom appear in modern Egyptian pedigrees. *Zarife and *Roda are the parents of the black Hallany Mistanny, sire of 6 National winners and 19 producers of National winners. *Aziza's son Julep sired U.S. National Champion Stallion Synbad++ and U.S. National Champion Mare High Fashion++, among others. Unfortunately the Brown imports did not have as great a chance to influence modern American Egyptian breedings as those of the other group brought in the same year, the Babson importation.
.....

What can others add?
K.
*


I'll add that the Brown import *Nasr figures prominantly in SE breeding in a way people often overlook -- he is the sire of Sirecho.

Anita (who promised LMGG to stay out of this game because I messed up the last one tongue.gif )
Nadj al Nur
Yeah....but pretty close only counts when you're playing horseshoes, or , so they tell me.
Cathy
PS, I think you might HAVE to jump in pretty soon Anita. Looks like everyone is stumped on the last two.
LMGG
You have all done so well. Now Metsur, who imported this horse and what happened to it?

In 1932, W. R. Brown DID import *Silver Yew and this stallion was a gray Kehilan-Jellabi (this is a hint). His sire was Radban El Azrak and the breeder was H.H. Prince Mohamed Ali. Do you want to hazard a guess as to the dam without using the data source?

The 1937 Arabian Stud book of the Arabian Horse Club or America states as follows:

No. 816 *EXOCHORDA, ch. Seglawi-Jedran m.; with white face, both hind stockings, white hoof, white haiar off shoulder; Sire, Aiglon, d.b; Dam,Leila, d.b.; Bred by --------------------------------------, foaled 1924; Imp. 1930 by Henry Hebermann, Belmar, N.J; Owned by J.M. Dickinson, Travelers Rest Arabian Stud, Nashville, Tenn.
Produce Suleika 1196; Bismillah 1197; Tom-Wahid 1328; Tom-Itnen 1329


At the same time *Exochorda was imp0rted, another horse was imported by Henry Herbermann, whose sire and dam were stated to be: Ibn Rabdan x Nafa. The breeder of this horse is stated to be the same as No. 816:

Does anyone want to hazard a guess who the breeder of the above two animals, who were imported at the same time is alleged to be?

I don't know why I'm doing this, probably due to the fumes from the shower cleaning spray.

LMG (aka LMGG)
LMGG
I am so ashamed. Diane got me. I didn't check my question on the Australian imports. Kars and Hadban were imported by the Blunts, but not bred by them, and later exported to Australia.

She was so honorable not to humiliate me in public. So there are two more horses (Crabbet bred) to be added in place of Kars and Hadban.

LMG (aka LMGG)
Nadj al Nur
Silver Yew was out of aziza (II ?)
the breeder of Ibn Nafa was the Ras so............ I went and looked in AHW- April of 75, page 298. Take a look.
Didn't Babson import Metsur? Was that wrong?
Cathy
Nadj al Nur
OK, I fouled up Had Metsur under Brown. Have given myself the appropriate lecture.
Cathy
Georgia
OMG, I just ran from the bathroom trying to avoid the show cleaner fumes and what do I find a Brain thread and my last cell was just fryed. rolleyes.gif I lied, that happened a long time ago...

Whatever happened to questions like:
Who imported/and or bred Davenport horses
Who imported/and or bred Babson horses
Who imported/and or bred Crabbet horses

ph34r.gif ohmy.gif ph34r.gif ohmy.gif ph34r.gif

I'd better start studying the grandparents on of my horses before I hit the door of the Al Khamsa meeting. LMG will have me take a test to get in.. I'm no good at tests either. huh.gif

Hey, I really enjoyed this one, I just might learn something.. glad I came in late though!! biggrin.gif Good job guys!!

Georgia
Georgia
Hey Lorriee,
No one could answer my questions?? can you believe it??
The third one was a trick question. wink.gif

I printed this thread, it was great read!! biggrin.gif
LMGG
Joja:

I was gone today to look at horses, so am catching up.

I am surprised that no one answer the questions regarding contemporay straight egyptian or polish bred horses which have no Crabbet blood in them, and the answer is: drum rolll, come on, how many?

The stallion imported at the same time as *Exochorda as *Ibn Nafa.

There will be another quiz at the Al Khamsa Convention, at least that's what they suggested. Who knows.

LMG (aka LMGG)
LMGG
I'm thinking about underwriting a two pound box of chocolates for the winner of the quiz at the Al Khamsa meeting. One pound for the runner-up. What do you think?

LMG (aka LMGG)
Nadj al Nur
Do you mean there is going to be ANOTHER quiz at the AK meeting?.....or this one? Do we need to "cram" before we come? In any case, chocolates are only good if everybody shares.That way, it won't go to anyones head (or other body parts.
Cathy
PS Do chocolates and pickle juice go well together?
Kimberli Nelson
Has anyone answered #12?
Nadj al Nur
No. Nor 14 either. Time to break out the books and find the answer. (IF I get time, LOL)
Cathy
Chiron
In regards to questions #12 & #14, how are you defining "contemporary"?? unsure.gif
Still alive? Within the last 20 yrs. 30 yrs.......50yrs?????? Is this a trick question where the answer is "none"????? tongue.gif cool.gif
LMGG
And a box of Mars bars to the centaur.

LMG (aka LMGG)
Eyegor
You might also give one to the hand.................................
Nadj al Nur
Lorriee, I had a professor once, who said that his aim was not to teach us ANYTHING, only to confuse us to the point where we would have to think for ourselves...........He did, and I was, so I did.
Are you trying to do a similar thing here.........
Cathy
LMGG
The answer is "None."

Those who don't think have all the answers, those who do think have nothing but questions.

Or as that great philosopher, "what's his name" once said, "This is a fine kettle of fish, you've got us in!"

LMG (aka LMG)
anitae
May I propose a modificication to the Crabbet/Egyptian question? Only if Lorriee approves. Warning: this is only slightly less evil than her original questino.

As ALL straight egyptian horses have some Blunt blood (that's why the answer was "none"), what is the FEWEST number of Blunt desert-breds available in any straight egyptian horses?

Anita
LMGG
Do I get to try?


LMG (aka LMGG)
Nadj al Nur
Ibn Hafiza has very little, I think only one line to the Blunt's Jamil.
Cathy
Nadj al Nur
Or maybe you meant horses that are still living?
Cathy
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