Hello friends,
in my search of the line Imperial and Ansata, I found this sire,
his name is *SHAHIR IASB.
His offsprings is very good, with daughters of great parents, like The Minstril, Ruminaja Ali, Thee Desperado, Alidaar, Orashan and M A Bayhajt.
He is incredible, has a classic beauty, well is refined.

They have seen it, know it?

*Shahir IASB
D.O.B. 6/12/93
Stallion

Salaa El Dine x *Imperial Imphayana by Ansata Imperial

*Shahir's individual excellence is no coincidence. His sire, Salaa El Dine, is one of the leading straight Egyptian sires in Europe. His dam Imperial Imphayana is a Salon Du Cheval winner and Israeli National Champion. *Shahir obviously possesses the same level of impeccable quality and pedigree as his ancestors. *Shahir remains the first Salaa ElDine son to become available for stud in the United States.

*Shahir Foals Out of Mares Sired by Ruminaja Ali, Alidaar andThe Minstril.

Photo 1 :

Basata
*Shahir x Alexandra Ali ( x Ruminaja Ali)

Photo 2 :

Imshala
*Shahir x Saleela (Alidaar)

Photo 3:

Catsby CC
*Shahir x Miss Maggie Mae (The Minstril)

As many know *Shahir is grandson of Ansata Halim Shah, for me one of the best parents of great champions.
Pedigree has great names in his.
And to his offsprings part of that potential is inheriting him.
What think?

I like him a lot. He has presence and type. The only thing I don't like in him are his frontlegs.

Shalom and greetings from Israel!
Shahir was born at Ariely Arabians and sold as a colt to Cadron Creek in the USA. He has made quite a name for himself as a successful sire at CC.
We have followed Shahir's career closely as we own his paternal half brother, the 1994 grey El Aziz B (Salaa el Dine x 20 Abbas Pasha I), bred by the Babolna State Stud in Hungary.
I am attaching an informal shot that I like of him at his 1st race on the track here in Israel and would love to hear your comments. If you would like more information/photos about him, please write me directly at

All the best,

Tzviah Idan
Idan Atiq Arabian Stud

Dear Tzviah Idan,

His stallion is tremendous! He is very beautiful.

I saw a photo of the first son in Israel de *Shahir.
You know if he has more offspring in Israel?

Best Regards,

Marianella

This horse has produced nothing and contributes nothing to his foals. So, you better like your mare. He is the pick of some of the worst horses in Israel. There are always tons of his foals advertised for sale. I guess no one keeps them.

Besides, isn't this promotion and advertising of a stallion, right at breeding season? I thought I read this site didn't appreciate that. Talk about a stallions that has been highly promoted and taken half of the pages in the monthly magazines.

Dear Guest,
I am sorry you feel this way about this stallion, but I would have to disagree with you in that he has produced nothing. He has many nice offspring, maybe not to your liking, but truly to the liking of many others, breeders and judges. I do not argue that Shahir is a perfect stallion, I don't think one exists, but he is very nice and when used with the right mares, produces great horses. I personally own a Shahir gelding that is wonderful, and I would never part with him. I have been with Shahir in person many times, and not only is he a beautiful stallion, he also has an incredible personality. Training my gelding has been such a pleasure, and trainers who have worked with Shahir babies have commented on how smart and quick they learn. I don't expect to change your opinion, but I would like to add my opinion to balance the topic on this stallion.
Thank you,
Cher

THE FOALS OUT OF THIS "C"HORSE IF THEY ARE ANY GOOD ARE BECAUSE OF THE
MARES. THIS HORSE HAS A SHORT NECK AND A LONG BARREL. THESE ARE CON-FORMATIONAL FAULTS THAT THE HORSE INDUSTRY,EVEN THE EGYPTIAN INDUSTRY,HAVE BRED AWAY FROM FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS. HE IS ALSO PLAIN HEADED WHEN COMPARED WITH DESPERADO,I.BAREEZ HORSES SO IT ESCAPES
ME WHY ANYONE WOULD WANT TO BREED TO A STALLION WHICH WILL MAKE THE
FOAL CONFORMATIONALLY WORSE. SALAA EL DIN IS A RACE HORSE SO IF YOU WANT TO BREED RACE HORSES,NOT HALTER HORSES, IT MIGHT MAKE SENSE. IT
ALSO SHOWS WHY YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE HORSE IN FRONT OF YOU,INSTEAD
OF TALKING ABOUT THE NICE HORSES IN THE PEDIGREE. FURTHERMORE,THIS
HORSE OR HIS GET WILL NOT WIN IN THE SHOW RINGS IN THE USA,FOR THE REASONS SUPRA. THEY WILL GET SOME WINS AT THE EGYPTIAN EVENT DUE TO
POLITICS BY HIS OWNERS. THIS HORSE WAS 7TH(SEVENTH) IN A CLASS OF 9(NINE)
WHEN SHOWN AT THE EGYPTIAN EVENT WHICH USUALLY HAS ABOUT 350 HORSES.
THIS IS ABOUT 3(THREE) TIMES THE NUMBER OF THE "ALL BREED"SHOW CALLED THE SALON DE CHEVAL(WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS). THIS SHOW IS AVAILABLE FOR
THE WEALTHY OWNERS THAT CAN GET THEIR HORSE THERE. ITS A GOOD SHOW
IF YOU WANT TO SELL HORSES TO EUROPE,BUT THESE SAME HORSES COULD NOT
WIN IN IN THIS COUNTRY. OH YEAH, SHAHIR WON A CLASS A SHOW IN ARKANSAS,BUT THERE WERE 2 HORSES IN HIS CLASS IF YOU WANT TO CALL THAT
COMPETITION? THE DESPERADO GET WERE THE ONLY EGYPTIANS AT THE 2001
NATIONALS OPPOSING AND COMPETING AGAINST THE PSYCHES,BEY SHAHS,FAME
VF,ECHO MAGNIFICOO,ALIJAMAL GET AND THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL IN HALTER AND PERFORMANCE. TO DATE NONE OF THE SHAHIR GET, LET ALONE THE STALLION, HAVE NOT CAPTURED EVEN A REGIONAL TOP 5. MY PREDICTION IS THAT
THEY WILL NOT UNLESS BRED TO SOME OF THE MARES OF THESE OTHER STALLIONS. LAST BUT NOT LEAST, IS ALL THE HYPE ABOUT SHAHIR BEING A LEADING JUVENILE SIRE OF FOALS...HE WAS IMPORTED BY A BIG FARM THAT PUT
ALL OF THEIR CLIENTS IN BREEDINGS TO HIM. THEY SOLD 60 BREEDINGS TO HIM
SIGHT UNSEEN,NOT BECAUSE ANYONE LIKED THE FOALS. HE HAS BEEN SOLD BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GETTING ANY REBREEDINGS TO HIM AND EVERYONE IS
TRYING TO GET RID OF THEIR FOALS. YOU ONLY SEE "NEWCOMERS"BREEDING TO HIM, NOT ANYONE THAT HAS BEEN IN THE HORSES. HE IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE
TRAVESTY OF THE INDUSTRY, THE BENEFIT OF BIG FARM PROMOTION FOR A "C"
HORSE. MY SUGGESTION IS TO BREED UP NOT BACK OR DOWN TO GET FOALS LIKE WERE PRODUCED IN THE 1970'S,YOU WON'T SUCCEED. THERE ARE MUCH NICER
EGYPTIANS,OR EGYPTIAN RELATED OR RUSSIAN & POLISH HORSES TO BREED TO.
CHECK HOW MANY RECENT BREEDINGS HAVE BEEN REGISTERED TO SHAHIR, AND
YOU WILL SEE THE EVIDENCE,WHY THIS COLT SHOULD BE A GELDING. ACTUALLY
THE BIG FARMS WILL PROBABLY TELL YOU THAT, NOW THAT THEY HAVE MADE THEIR
MONEY ON HIM.

Wow Guest!!
I saw Shahir when he was being promoted by Arabians Ltd. and he was a nice stallion...but I think stallions should "knock your socks off" as my dear friend in England would say. I have not been in the business that long (12) years but I saw Ali at the event one year and I am still putting my socks back on.
I did see Alidaar before he was sold ...he was beautiful...we were at the last Glennloch sell and there was some horses there that just awed me with presence, beauty and charm.
I am finding it harder and harder to have stallions "Wow" me but when I got into the business we sure had some great ones. One of the last stallions that wowed me was Ansata King Tut (Nabiel son . He wasn't exotic headed but had beautiful large eyes, he stood larger than his size, bold stallion with this neck that was so upright and set back and when he moved it was like a freight train. I know he would of been something to watch when he was younger but as a 23 year I was in awe.
I believe we all know when that one stallion or mare comes out that they are something special...it's a grace , an expression that keeps you looking...making you wonder about that stallion or mare.
Shahir just did not do that for me...but for some they might be putting there socks on.
Good luck with your sons and daughter of Shahir ( I liked the gray filly out of Selenna as she is a granddaughter of my foundation mare (Imasar) so I think she is quite lovely...I keep telling Michelle to bred her to her half brother ..I know it would be a great cross What do you think?

Cher,

You tried to balanced the topic and made my point. Shahir produced your GELDING.

Dear Guest, I seem to recall several winners from the Salon Du Cheval competing successfully in the US in recent years eg Kwestura. Don't knock the show because of small numbers - all horses must win a major Championship to qualify

WOW, Guest again,

It sounds like someone has had experience with a couple of farms and knows something about what has been going on. As another poster stated, Shahir was imported by a big farm and promoted. I heard that the majority of breedings that were sold to this stallion, were sold "sight unseen' while he was still out of the country. Breeders didn't even get to see a photo. The breedings were sold ,solely, on the word of the promoter. Sounds like, after the farm made their money, he was passed on to another big promoter that was even worse (effective.) Wonder what this first farm would say about him now. That might be interesting.

At the second big promoter, I hear that the breedings were sold to people new to horses. These people knew nothing about stallions or the horses in general. They depended, solely, on the big farm to guide them. So, it appears to me that this stallion has been brilliantly promoted to two groups of people. The first group purchased breedings without ever seeing the stallion, and the second group purchased breedings because they were new and followed recommendations made by the promoter. Evidently, this has turned out to be one of the biggest promotional efforts lately on a stallion of somewhat questionable quality. Just my opinion from the chatter I hear from long time breeders. I am not an expert on Egyptian stallions. I do know what I like.

So I hear that another Arabian stallion with horrible legs has been promoted in the same to the same degree. I am told that there is another stallion of extremely poor quality that is being promoted and there has been $200,000 in partnerships sold. This same stallion went through an auction and couldn't even get a bid. Talk about being handed a lemon and making lemonade.

It seems to me this is tragic and very bad for the Arabian breed. There are some wonderful, quality stallions, extremely beautiful and correct that are used much less for lack of a big promoter and groupies. Groupies follow the big farms and follow their lead without question. No matter if the stallion has been shown or if he has produced much in the way of foals. These people want to be popular and hang with the "popular" people.

Little do they know how much this will cost them in the end. They might even find out that those "popular" people aren't really so popular after all, once they start looking around. It appears that some do "snap" to what has happened, eventually. Then, they realize they need to search out some of these other stallions to get quality into what they are breeding. Or, they get out of the horses and badmouth the Arabian industry.

WOW, Guest again,

It sounds like someone has had experience with a couple of farms and knows something about what has been going on. As another poster stated, Shahir was imported by a big farm and promoted. I heard that the majority of breedings that were sold to this stallion, were sold "sight unseen' while he was still out of the country. Breeders didn't even get to see a photo. The breedings were sold ,solely, on the word of the promoter. Sounds like, after the farm made their money, he was passed on to another big promoter that was even worse (effective.) Wonder what this first farm would say about him now. That might be interesting.

At the second big promoter, I hear that the breedings were sold to people new to horses. These people knew nothing about stallions or the horses in general. They depended, solely, on the big farm to guide them. So, it appears to me that this stallion has been brilliantly promoted to two groups of people. The first group purchased breedings without ever seeing the stallion, and the second group purchased breedings because they were new and followed recommendations made by the promoter. Evidently, this has turned out to be one of the biggest promotional efforts lately on a stallion of somewhat questionable quality. Just my opinion from the chatter I hear from long time breeders. I am not an expert on Egyptian stallions. I do know what I like.

So I hear that another Arabian stallion with horrible legs has been promoted in the same to the same degree. I am told that there is another stallion of extremely poor quality that is being promoted and there has been $200,000 in partnerships sold. This same stallion went through an auction and couldn't even get a bid. Talk about being handed a lemon and making lemonade.

It seems to me this is tragic and very bad for the Arabian breed. There are some wonderful, quality stallions, extremely beautiful and correct that are used much less for lack of a big promoter and groupies. Groupies follow the big farms and follow their lead without question. No matter if the stallion has been shown or if he has produced much in the way of foals. These people want to be popular and hang with the "popular" people.

Little do they know how much this will cost them in the end. They might even find out that those "popular" people aren't really so popular after all, once they start looking around. It appears that some do "snap" to what has happened, eventually. Then, they realize they need to search out some of these other stallions to get quality into what they are breeding. Or, they get out of the horses and badmouth the Arabian industry.

Hello Guest,
I don't assume to know where you are coming from or what contact you have had with *Shahir's owners, so you may be justified in your strong feelings. I however, purchased my GELDING at 6 months old at a Cadron Creek auction, and I gelded him as I was searching out a performance horse, not a stallion. I do take offence to your blanket statement that all *Shahir offspring are "nothing", as my gelding is far from nothing to me. You may not feel that *Shahir has lived up to his promotion, but he has produced. The stallion Gatsby is just wonderful, and he well exceeded my maximum at that auction.
Cher

I was talking about the filly...Imshala . I know the lady who owns her Michelle and I was just wondering if she still owns her
Bonnie

Hi Bonnie

Imshala
*Shahir x Saleela (Alidaar)

Michele Kowalczyk
Foxwood Arabians
Orchard Park, NY.

Best Regards,
Marianella

Dear "Guest",
you stated that Salaa El Dine is a "racehorse sire".
What do you mean with that? To the best of my knowledge only a handful of Salaa
El Dine get were on the racetrack. The majority of them are show winners or breeding stock.

Furthermore what do "quality" has in common with sheer "quantity"? There were years
a show with hundreds of entries (like Scottsdale) could bring forward to me ONE typey horse...
What do numbers mean to you?

And by the way: It's not necessary for a Salon du Cheval winner to proof he also can win
in the American showring. The judges in Europe prefer a completely different type of horse -
the type most European breeders are after: balanced horses, with exquisite movements,
and extraordinary type. Not giraffe-like necks and straight toplines and horses that only excell
when being posed. Luckily enough, more and more European horses win at big American
shows, too. Seems as if the tights are turning...

Ok I have tried to not comment here. I have tried to just read forums but ignorance such as this just cannot go on.

First of all, there are far too many stallions out there in our industry today that should not be stallions. Not every male horse born should remain entire. This does not mean that the horse isn't qualitiy it just may not be stallion qualitiy.

Second, GELDINGS as you rudely pointed out can be some of the best horses one could ever own. Geldings can be a trusted friend, can be a tough competitor, a babysitter, etc. Geldings can do everything a stallion can do except breed. If you are looking for a breeding animal then obviously a gelding should not be considered. But if you aren't then geldings are super horses. There is nothing wrong with a gelding. There is also nothing wrong with the sire, just because he may have sired a horse that should be gelded. Every stallion will sire a horse that should be gelded.

Third, *Shahir has sired Gatsby CC, who is coming into the spotlight. He is an exceptional looking stallion with movement to die for. His first two fillies have the most beautiful chisled faces, and bodies. They are arabians for sure.

I am sorry guest that you seem to possess such ignorance in the matter of geldings. There are many good quality geldings out there, that can be the best horse you ever owned. I for one applaud *Shahir and hope he continues to be healthy and producing such fine individuals.

Dear Journey,

I agree with you. I have seen several sires that do not serve like sire, but is not the case of *Shahir, I have seen his children with great mothers and are very good.

Oliver, you say that Europe conserves the classic arabian horse and that in USA, has arabian horse artificial?

I did not understand well, Sorry

Kiss

Marianella

Exactally, *Shahir IS stallion quality and is producing fantastic foals. Foals who are winning and selling in a very high market value.

Shalom from Israel!
To my knowledge, Salaa el Dine has produced at least two successful race horses. The first is the internationally known Crusader, the second,
our own Babolna-bred El Aziz B (ex 20 Abbas Pasha I) who flat raced last year with great success in Israel, and previously to this successfully completed a 160 km endurance race in Hungary.
There may be more out there as well.
All the best,
Tzviah

Dear Readers:

Both sides of the Shahir debate make good points. I believe that the discussion is covering three topics: Shahir's worth as a halter sire, Shahir's worth as a performance sire, and the marketing and promotional power of a large, well-financed marketing farm such as Cadron Creek. I have been to Cadron Creek and have seen all their stallions. Shahir does have some good points for me, one being that he is tall. However, I chose not to breed to him or any of the Cadron Creek stallions.

I think that his worth as a halter sire is questionable, because there are many better stallions out there. I would rate him higher as a performance sire due to his size, willingness, and heart girth. However, in either case, I do not think he is worth the breeding fee they ask.

I have chosen to breed to Farid Nile Moon, who, in my opinion, is one of the finest stallions on the planet. He exemplefies egyptian beauty, and he has a kind and willing heart to go along with his good looks. I believe Farid Nile Moon is being shown in Europe, so those of you who live there will be able to see him.

In any case, Shahir is what he is, and he is not to blame for how his owners have promoted him or for the disapointment of those who chose to breed to him. He is a nice horse, though he would probably be a better gelding.

Thanks.

Jim

Quote:
"THE SALON DE CHEVAL(WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS). THIS SHOW IS AVAILABLE FOR
THE WEALTHY OWNERS THAT CAN GET THEIR HORSE THERE. ITS A GOOD SHOW
IF YOU WANT TO SELL HORSES TO EUROPE,BUT THESE SAME HORSES COULD NOT
WIN IN IN THIS COUNTRY"

Dear Guest,
Arabian breeders in almost every other country do not see the type of horse winning in the American showring as ideal. Many American horses are long in the back, shallow in the girth, have high choppy knee action and plain heads. Overall these horses resemble the Saddlebred more than the Arabian.
Tail carriage, type and movement are "enhanced" by artificial means such as gingering, cosmetic surgery, weighted shoes, overuse of the whip etc etc etc. Performance ability and athleticism is often measured by trotting around in a "park" class rather than on the race track, endurance trail or jumping arena as in other countries.
I would say a 3rd place in a class of 20 or so true-to-type Arabians is a better result than a win over 200 saddlebred-cum-arabians, don't you?
I am sure Shahir has his faults but he looks more like an Arabian than many other Arab horses in America. Most American stallions are overpromoted anyway so that is nothing new and does not mean that this particular horse is a bad one.

Enough arrogance please.

he's now owned by Jamal Arabians . you can find them on the web/internet.

if you're talking about Al BAraki being promoted with bad legs he was born premature and that's why he had crooked legs he has sired number of wonderful horses and his brother is owned by falconwood legacy bloodstock his name shabab jamal .

As for Shahir of course there's no perfect stud and you all make it out to be the law that a stallion should be perfect if he's to breed ...you'll be waiting a long time to breed your mares if you wait for a perfect stallion.

HMMMM Shahir breeds alot of mares and he's not owned by a big farm.

I take exception to Jaja and Olivers statements. You are lumping breeders together over here and it is not called for.
Funny thing is that we are seeing alot of exportation of OUR horses overseas. If they are really that bad then why are you buying and breeding them?

I personally DO NOT have any saddlebred arabs in my pasture but since Jaja said so, I guess it must be true. This is bad publicity for Americans and uncalled for. Maybe AMERICANS should dig up some of your horses and see what you have in the background of yours?

Put some of the pedigrees of your horses on the forum JAJA and we will see what you are breeding. Instead of taking potshots at us, maybe you should buy a ticket and visit all the farms and then make a PROPER conclusion.

I do not know a single breeder that uses Ginger, cosmtetic surgery etc but I do not say it does not happen. I imagine you have your issues at your shows too. Who are you to take exception to how we train our horses? I personally do not need to see my arab win a race to know she is awesome. I have a mare that would win racing but have no interest in it.

I think Jaja took the barrel in arrogance this time.

Dara

I too saw the horse close up at the Event which guest is referring to. GUEST IS VERY CORRECT .....the horse has no length of neck and in fact IS LONG in the barrel.. I absolutely agree with guest because nothing is wrong with a shorter neck as long as the rest of the body suits him, but this is not the case with this horse in my opinion. I saw the horse in the stall, they brought him out for me to look at by the barn, and then I saw him shown at the Event in the arena.

One step further, I asked Jim Deegan what he thought of the Shahir's conformation while we were standing in the stall with the stallion, and he said and I quote , "HE HAS A SHORT NECK".

Then the horse went to the arena later that week, and I sat three rows behind Mr. Deegan, and witnessed to the fact the horse was beat by ALL the other horses in the class, PERSONALLY< I feel they didn't place him dead last out of sheer sympathy. BUT... I will emphasise this horse didn't measure up to anything in the ring that day..

I have no idea how many breedings were sold and under what conditions (sight unseen) but it surely wouldn't suprise me in the least bit.

Anyone have a side picture of Shahir? No neck and long body makes me think of a dachsund dog and I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. But of course, none of us would *ever* exaggerate... now would we?

Yeah ' sigh' you're right. Show me one picture of him from the side that the photo isn't stretched.

I don't know about exaggeration, but I want to know why they claim this horse is the "leading Egyptian Sire in the World on their website'.

We are Jamal Egyptian Arabians and are the owners of the stallion *Shahir IASB. We did not initiate this thread nor do we know who the person is that has done so. We are not promoting our stallion here only addressing the statements made that are wrong.

First of all, I want to say that anyone posting on any website as a guest or unregistered person shows little courage in making his comments as an “un-named” source. I for one do not take any comment made on any post in this manner as honest or with any credence. How can it be with no name attached?

In any event I feel compelled to respond to the many half-truths and outright lies that have been stated so far. I guess if you are in this business long enough, and we have been for over 16 years, you will have mud slung at you from time to time, rightfully so or not.

We have at the highest precepts of our business those of honesty and integrity. We hold these above all other things. We will gladly allow anyone to contact our clients and ask them about us, our stallion, our breeding services, and our client support. We feel there is not another farm in America that does a better job. Now to *Shahir.

We first saw him at the Egyptian Event in 1996 the year he arrived here from Israel. The poster that said 60 breedings were sold without even seeing a picture of *Shahir is flat wrong. The breedings were by and large sold after he arrived here in the U.S. To say otherwise is untrue.

We bred our best mare to him the following year and he gave us a very nice filly. This filly was shown at a local Class A show and was Reserve Jr Champion her first show and at the Egyptian Event that same year and was a Futurity Top Ten. She was sold later for the highest price we have ever sold a filly for. We are a small farm, and do not play the politics at any show.

As for his conformation faults that our unnamed guest presented. Last year at the Event, the Shahir foals had some of the highest scores for legs there.

Shahir legs are quite good, and his length of neck is also. To infer that we alter a photo or “stretch” it is absurd! If our guest would like to come visit Shahir here on our farm we would gladly pay half the airfare. and let them look at the photographer's prrofs. None have been altered!

As for Shahir’s show record, we were not involved with him when he showed at the Event and do not know the circumstances of his prior conditioning or training. We did feel he was competitive enough to send him to Scottsdale in December of 2003 to be shown there at their show the following February. During a round pen training exercise in early January, *Shahir came down wrong on his left front and pulled up limping. *Shahir had two bone chips and a torn tendon. He underwent two surgeries, an Anthroscopy on 1/8/04 and a Pastern Arthrodesis on 1/14/04. If our guest doubts this, I would happily send him the x-rays along with the substantial vet bill as proof, since he would obviously feel we concocted this also. Had he shown, our guest would not be in a position to make that claim. As for none of *Shahir’s get wining at the Regional level or above, we have been trying to address this since our ownership of *Shahir with the most generous awards program for those showing Shahir get. That’s all we can do. It is not a matter of being shown and not winning, simply they have not gotten the chance to be shown.

As for the claim that his breedings are down year to year and we are only breeding to newcomers is also not correct. His foal registrations are fluctuating up and down, but we do limit his book to 20 mares a year, and we breed 20 mares a year. For the past few years we have experienced a high incident of getting mares in foal only to have them slip between 45-60 days. It is an occurrence that other breeders are experiencing also. The fact of the matter is we do breed 20 a year, our self imposed limit, and also we are closing his book earlier each year. As for the newcomer claim, in the past three years I am not aware of any “newcomer” that has purchase a breeding to *Shahir.

Our unnamed Guest also posed the question, why is "leading Egyptian Sire in the World on their website'. Well guest our website does NOT say that. It says he is "a" leading, not “the” and therein lies the difference. It is based on the numbers of foals registered before the stallion turns eight years old. We have not made that up it is simply fact. Once again you have mislead our readers her on this website.


We took Shahir to the Egyptian Event in 2003. Some posters stated he had a short neck and is long in the barrel. Anyone interested can go to Shahirs website www.shahiriasb.com and see many photos, and none guest, have been retouched or stretched as you claim. NONE. You may ask Judith, Javan, Darryl for the originals to see for yourself. They are as they were taken by the photographer.

As for the several comments as to how Shahir looked at the Event, we don’t know in which year they saw Shahir. In 2003 at the Event, we were approached by an older gentleman in the ring who observed Shahir. He is known internationally for his breeding program. If I mentioned his name most of you would know of him. He is a man of few words, but after a minute or so he commented to me” That is a very nice stallion”. From this gentleman it was the highest compliment. But the fact of the matter is, he did not have to say anything.

We all agree that there is no perfect stallion just like there is not any perfect mare. We know Shahir is not perfect and are careful in the mares we select to breed to him. We don’t have to breed any mare that comes along as some farms choose to do or are in it just for the money.

Shahir has just been nominated as an AHA Breeders Sweepstakes nominated sire and for our guest’s information again, we are breeding several very nice non-egyptian mares who are interested in what Shahir can bring to the equation. They are from established breeders and some of the mares he is breeding are Scottsdale, Regional, National, and International winners, Including one STRAIGHT EGPYTIAN who was top ten fifth over all at Scottsdale 2005 and also a Bey Shah Grand daughter who was also top ten (WHO WAS ALSO A U.S. TOP TEN FUTURITY FILLY IN 2000). What has been done with Shahir at other farms in the past is simply not our fault. The past is in the past now it’s time for the future!!!



Bob & Linda Stephenson
Jamal Egyptian Arabians

This is really my first time into this forum......and what a sad, sad note to see someone printing such awful garbage. For those of you who are interested in the truth.....I was with Shahir when he came to Cadron Creek. He is an incredibly beautiful stallion......throws incredibly beautiful babies....and is still doing the same thing today. Every baby may not be stallion quality or show ring quality, BUT you show me a stallion that has produced such. It does not exist in any world!!!!! You should be ashamed of yourself for printing this garbage.....There are many, many stallions out there.....you have to look for what pleases you. But don't degrade something just because it does not please you.....Shahir has made his name and he is a great stallion. Don't be so petty, be realistic and reasonable.....and don't make assumptions......Go on fact.....There is no such thing as a PERFECT STALLION.

I, too will add a comment...or two!

I was with Altd. when they were loaned *Shahir IASB for a year or two from Ariely Arabians in Israel..I saw him when he got off the truck, and I saw him from that point on until he was about two..I saw him mature and blossom into the stallion he is today..I have seen him being ridden bareback, and I have seen him in his stall. He is every bit as nice, perhaps better, than a lot of the breeding stallions out there in the SE community today.

I was very disappointed when he was unable to be shown because of the leg injury, but these things happen..and to my very own stallion just last year, while in training. It is heartbreaking...not just for the owner, but to the horse also, as it curtails activities, and the time frame for advancement..either in the show ring, or the breeding shed.

I am delighted to be able to say to you all that I admire this stallion, his owners and what they are trying to accomplish with him. I fully intend to breed one of my mares to him this year, and am looking forward to showing the foal at the Event in 2007.

I totally agree with Linda and Bob's assessment of anyone registering as "guest"..and when one does so, one really should know what one is talking about before one does the talking!

Thank you Jamal Egyptian Arabians, I have many friends who are life time breeders to Shahir, Gatsby by far is one of my favorites, but his get under saddle and at halter are doing great. Guests should have the courage to give their names when making such comments about a stallion.

please englighten us on gatsbys wonderful performance offspring heidip (as well as where they've won).

She said they are "doing great" under saddle - that don't necessarily mean they are shown!

Jamal,

You're website does state

"2. Shahir was The "Leading Striaght EgyptianJuvenile Sire" among all bloodlines, as ranked by Arabian Horse Times research, from 1999-2001, while he was considered a JR Sire!"

However here is the truth.

You stated he is THE not 'a' leading Straight Egyptian Juvenile Sire


Shahir was born in 1993.
Shahir has 124 registered progeny to date.
Shahir had a total of 35 foals from 1999-2001
Shahir had a total of 88 foals by the end of 2001

Thee Infidel was born in 1995
Thee Infidel has 178 registered progeny to date
Thee Infidel had a total of 109 foals from 1999-2001
Thee Infidel had a total of 113 foals by the end of 2001

Also, are you telling us that your flash presentation of photos on your website is not 'stretched' ?

We shouldn't mislead people.

First of all, Oliver and Jaja. I am dissapointed that you would stoop to the level of "guest" and open fire on American Arabians in retaliation for his rude comments concerning the Arabian scene in Europe. Even after all of the attacks on our "American" Arabians that I have read on this forum, I would never consider it appropriate for me to blast the horses in Europe. Oliver, for you to say that of all of the Arabians that show up at Scottsdale, there will be only ONE of quality is irresponsible. Just as irresponsible as "guest's" comments. As to Shahir. I started a thread here a couple of years ago, after I had seen him at the Egyptian Event, in which I lauded the qualities is this fine stallion. I had heard so many negative things about him, yet having seen him in person I realized what a wonderful horse he was. I have my own opinions as to his weaknesses and strength's, but after having seen him in person I realized that his detractors were either unqualified to judge him or are simply jealous liars.

Roger,
please read carefully what was said by me - and don't twist my words.

I never said there is just ONE "quality" individual at Scottsdale. Read it again:

"A show with hundreds of entries (like Scottsdale) could bring forward to me ONE typey horse."

This is completely different. Don't try to see everything in black and white.
There are many shades of grey...

I remember the times when a U.S. National Champion Stallion could hardly
be recognized as an Arabian horse. But like I said in my post you are referring to
(which by the way was made in 2003), the tights are turning!

Meaning one stands out to you above the rest Nothing wrong with that.. I often pick one or two out of the whole show that just make me tingle Am I correct in thinking this is what you mean?




Again, I agree, I think the tides are turning as well and it's exciting to watch..... "tights" turning though make me think if ballet dancers

I have to put my 2c worth in here about Shahir as well, having dealt with Linda Stephenson of Jamal Arabians on an issue totally unrelated to the showring. Even though that situation was less than ideal and one that I wouldn't wish on anyone... she has presented herself consistently as a lady of integrity and ethics and is someone I would not hesitate to do business with. I have admired Shahir for sometime now and hope to be able to travel to see him in person some day soon and meet this royal gentleman.

Shame on guest for posting such nasty comments filled with conjecture and outright ignorance.. you are truly showing your intelligence level... and truthfully, I think something that small and immature is best kept under wraps and not let out where the public can see it.... to put it bluntly, you made an ass of yourself.

For what it's worth from this Arabian horse lover

Have you ever visited some of the big barns and wondered why they bought a particular stallion? You might be thinking, oh my gosh what an ugly horse! But some horses are brought in because they have a something that the breeder wants to throw into the mix. Further, some lines just nick better with certain lines. However, it takes experimentation to figure that out.

I think this is what Arabians LTD wanted to try with Shahir. And of course their clients that depend on them, probably saw what they were doing, and wanted in on the band wagon. You can not keep breeding the same lines to the same lines, forever. Who knows the reprocussions of this, and also it was better for them to go overseas, strategically speaking to find an outcross.

I have seen some ugly mares produce the most spectacular foals, when bred to an individual. Yet put them with someone else and you miss the equation! It is much harder to take a horse with faults, and find the right nick, then to take 2 supperb individuals and breed them together.

When they tested him on Miss Maggie May they took one of their best producing mares. She always produces nice. Yet how much you wanna bet that they also took one of their worst. Experimentation. None of us can do any better. I dont think they meant to 'exploit a stallion' or bilk people out of money. I think they were doing what they are - a breeder. CC

Our "Un-Named Guest" has stated mistruths again in his most recnt posting by saying that our website is wrong, *Shahir was not the leading Juvenile Sire, Thee Infidel was. What is stated in our website about Shahir was the "Leading straight Egyptian Sire among all bloodlines as ranked by the Arabian Horse Times from 1999-2001, while he was considered a JR Sire".

That Guest is factual.

What one has to be aware of is that the Arabian Horse Times makes this ranking and not us. They determine the timing involved and report the results each year in their August issue. The operative word here is "as reported by the Arabian Horse Times".

I have included the actual copy of that page as printed in the August 2001 issue.

You can clearly see that*Shahir is ranked 4th of all bloodline and the first listed straight Egyptian stallion. Doesn't this make him the #1 ranked straight Egyptian as we claim he was?

Thee infidel was on the list as 10th overall.

While I certainly won't wait for any appologies from you, you are wrong.

As for Oliver, I like Roger am extremely dissapointed. I wondered why any moderator would even allow such a thread to be put up. Now we all understand. This forum provides a valuable service, but to allow any thread to be posted based on untrue allegations is flat wrong and irresponsible. We could only hope that a lesson is learned from this and we will not see a reoccurance of this type in the future.

As for the flash photos, they have not been stretched, as stated prior many photos are on *Shahir's website and ALL are unretouched. All photos seen on the web are seen somewhat differently on various computers based on what browser one uses, how it is set, and how the resolution of the computer itself is set. Once again you are wrong.

*Shahir's website and ALL are unretouched. *Shahir is how he is, and we know many won't like him and that is their personal opinion, everyone has one.

Thank you Cher, Roger & Suellen for your post.

If the photo of the article did not post for those who wish to see the truch, iI took the time to upoad it to out website at:

http://www.jamalarabians.com/arabiantimes2001.htm

WOW... great magazine article..especially the little box underneath..and it is TRUE!

According to the Arabian Horse Times..he IS the leading juvenile SE sire in August of 2001..based on number of foals...at that time.

WooHoo..I didn't know that! CONGRATULATIONS on a very worthy accomplishment!

I decided it was best to check with AHA and Arabian Horse Times. I spoke with both parties by phone and found out there needs to be some corrections made.

What I would recommend is Jamal Egyptians understand that this article was published in August, where 'maybe' at that time Shahir had a good number of foals but later as the year came to a close things changed dramatically.


Currenly as it stands with AHA Thee Infidel is higher ranked than Shahir for 2001.

This is why I cannot stress enough why WE ALL read the fine print. Anything we put in print to promote our horses and accept fees for, we need to act responsibly and check, double check, and write for the sake of clarity. I don't really care for statements made that hinge upon words like 'a' and 'the' or 'as by'.

The stallion ower who likes to use 'fine print' should have read the fine print too!!!!
You would have recognized this was published in August of 2001.
And all interested Shahir parties should read the fine print like 'a' and 'the'.

This is an interesting lesson to be learned, as the Stallion owner feels he/she is deserving of an apology, but I'm thinking guest deserves a few apologies as well.

Sirs: The article is indeed written for the August 2001 Arabian Horse Times. They did the research, not us. They use mid year as a cut off of foals reported registered for the sake of a deadline for publishing their magazine. NOT US. We are going by what is said and reported by the AHT in their article. It is not any different in any other year. The dealine is the same for the reporting of those statistics for that research for that particular article mid year every single year. It does not change. The number of foals by the end of the reported year might change but the fact remians when they print the aricle it is what it is at that exact given time.



Bob Stephenson

NOT when it would appear that the statements were made with vindictiveness...as soooo many comments are, sorry to say...can't understand why we all can't get along..are we a community or not!

STILL, a VERY worthy accomplishment, and deserving of POSITIVE reenforcement!

Echo1 stated she contacted the Arabian Horse Times and she did. Her synopsis of what she found out was not reported correctly. I called the Times and spoke with Kandi Menne the Advertising director of the Times . She says that the cutoff for the ranking has been in place for a number of years and the ranking is what it is and the 2001 Juvenile Sires ranking reflection *Shahir as the 4th ranked overall and the highest ranked straight Egyptian stallion will remain forever as factual. Here is an email from her.

Hi Linda,
>
> Arabian Horse Times Magazine does an annual feature called Juvenile sires.
> It is a feature that has the following criteria.
>
> * stallion must be 8 years or younger
> * We have a cut off date and the contact AHA for the registered foal
> count foals are counted only if they are registered by our cut off date.
> The date was June 18 in 2001 ( I found my copy of the fax from AHA), was
> June 20 in 2002 and July 1 in 2003 & 2004.
> * It is highly probable that each of the stallions making our list had
> more foals born either before or after our cur off date but - we could not
> have included them in our tabulations if they were not registered.
>
> I hope this information will clear up any discrepancies that you may be
> experiencing
>
> Kandi Menne
> Advertising
> Arabian Horse Times


Echo1 said:
What I would recommend is Jamal Egyptians understand that this article was published in August, where 'maybe' at that time Shahir had a good number of foals but later as the year came to a close things changed dramatically.


Echo and others, that does not matter. As stated above in the email from Ms Menne, the ranking was done at a point in time and no one can change this. It’s like if there were only 10 more minutes in a soccer match the other team would have won. But the fact of the matter is the soccer match is a time limited event, and so is the ranking for the Juvenile sires. One I might add that we did not establish. There is no fine print to be read.

Apparently The Infidel registered more babies that Shahir did through the end of 2001, or perhaps some were even registered later in 2002 and beyond who knows. But in any event, they were NOT registered by the cutoff established by the Arabian Horse Times for the article in question. What we state is factual. !999, 2000, 2001 Leading Straight Egyptian Juvenile Sire. (All results and proof are in the August Times for each of those respective years.)

This has been a wonderful eye opening, learning experience although it smacks loudly of a personal witch hunt.

Bob Stephenson