Most excellent post Sheila!
Liz, you hit the nail right on the head. Thank you.
Read it for what it's worth, it's just my opinion.
Here's my opinion on this saga.
I feel if these women were truly interested in researching Exochorda and wanted to put it in a book they would. However, it's not too ironic that they come here where Hansi is everyday, and start each and every thread discrediting Hansi and making over the top insults towards her and anyone who attempts to defend Hansi for sharing a similar opinion with Hansi.
This is what this is ALL about, and really has nothing to do with a mare at all.
They use this mare as an avenue to attack Hansi, because Caryn has a bee under her bonnet for Hansi.
Caryn told me straight out several years ago, when we were on speaking terms, that she will destroy Hansi and discredit her if she gets in her way. We were at the Egyptian Event. I think Caryn probably wanted to be the next Judi Forbis, or Lady Anne Blunt, and have her own organization like TPS. The quest for power and money does strange things to some people.
And this, is what this is all about in my opinion. It's not about a horse, which IS on the roster for Straight Egyptian, or a mare which IS listed in Al Khamsa and has been for many years. It's about one individual who has an ax to grind with Hansi because Hansi spoke the truth as she knew it.
If she really WAS working to prove horses, why didn't she pick KARS? Who IS a SOFI horse, but not a SE horse? Work on something which could have possiby been more fruitful.
Think about it.
The mare E. is qualified by TPS as SE, the mare is listed in Al Khamsa, they have an organization where Caryn was the self appointed president, and her BOD was hand selected by her. WHY , why on earth does Caryn need to make such a HUGE issue over this mare for the last 20 years? The horse is ALREADY in. What's the beef?
The beef is between Caryn and Hansi.
The agenda is to discredit Hansi at any cost.
The motive is Money.
The rest of us are just roadkill who got in the way of Caryn's agenda.
It is a long and well known belief by many who were there during the beginning, to this story that years ago, these horses were being purchased rather inexpensively in comparison to the horses who did have Inshass blood, (Morafic, Shaikh Al Badi, Ruminaja Ali, Imperial horses, Ansata Horses, Rosetta,etc) These horses (ones in parenthesis) were VERY expensive at the time, and these folks wanted to be able to SELL horses for big bucks like Ansata was for example, but didn't have the money to BUY horses for big bucks that Ansata and others had. Marketing agenda 101.
So they got these horses instead, which were totally picked over by everyone else in SE already, and filled their barns, and pointed out what shred or sliver of blood it was that they had in common. I saw many many of these horses back in the day, and I could easily put a value on them in terms of price, and let's just say, they were nowhere NEAR the price category of horses that were well known at the time.
Do I begrudge that? Certainly not, I love ALL these horses and see many great things in ALL of them, but it was looking fairly evident, that these horses didn't have a leg to stand on in terms of price comparison to the noteable SE's at the time.
It wasn't the they were Egypt/ Blunt, it was they DIDN"T HAVE INSHASS BLOOD, because EVERYONE in SE ALREADY HAD Egypt/Blunt blood in their horses.
They wanted something exclusive to SE, and they needed to find a way to make them exclusive in an attempt to 'one up' TPS.
The 'only leg' they had to stand on, is that they DID NOT have Inshass blood, which was their clever way of saying this sets them apart from the rest.
Then the El Deree wars began. They went around, saying El Deree wasn't a legitimate horse, and that Morafic and all that followed were highly questionable.
I was even told that the SE's weren't 'real arabians' because of this. Being a new breeder and only 18-19 and early 20's, I was very impressionable.
This was told to me by someone from their organization, which was riding off the coattails of TPS, and propogating that nonsense at the Egyptian Event. They used TPS and the Event, to further their agenda.
Initially, I thought they had a point. I admit my mistake. I apologized for not being able to understand this clearly in the beginning. WHen I was in my 20's and early 30's I did the best I could based on what I knew at the time, and now that I'm older, and know better, I try to do better.
But as time when on, I could NEVER get over the fact that the RAS did IN FACT use this blood of Inshass, which was part of the qualifications of a horse being SOFI. I couldn't make logical sense out of how to disclude Inshass blood.
I also did not feel that Exochorda blood was to the level of Ansata Ibn Halima, or Moniet El Nefous. AND, the RAS DID NOT use the blood of E. . Which would technically disqualify Exochorda from SOFI. I tried breeding these lines every which way I could. They didnt' improve to the level of quality that I felt was necessary.
I questioned SOFI on this.
I got brow beat.
*Notice the change in the definition with SOFI, where it was added (under the auspices of Dr. Branch)
So, I was blacklisted from the preservation community by Joe, Marilyn, and Caryn, because I WOULD NOT go along with thier agenda to support this nonsense.They whispered behind my back, said some very negative things about me, told everyone not to talk with me, not to buy horses from me, yada yada ya. I was called names on a public forum such as 'whore' , 'bitch', 'cancer', 'disease'.
They even went as far to make ill comments about my small children.
1. I did not see the difference in the Inshass horses. I felt these horses desperately needed to go to current SE stock which included Inshass.
2. I would not support the idea of destroying Hansi Heck
3. I did not feel that the goal to topple TPS was a good idea by any stretch of the imagination.
I felt the SOFI horses where on a downward spiral genetically. A very slipperly slope. I felt there was a visable lack in stallion quality within this group. I was unable to find stallions who had enough genetic material and phenotype to put these horses up to the level of quality of the mainstream horses, OR, at least get them to the level of the original horses which came to this country such as Ansata Ibn Halima. The need for an outcross to the Inshass blood was apparent, and I thought, this is most likely why it was done by the RAS in the first place. I felt that Inshass was vitally important to maintain the quality of stallions.
However, there were some very good mares still present in this group.
They would have been best served being bred to Egypt/Blunt/Inshass stallions in my opinion.
The blood from these mares would have been a good infusion into SE.
But they wouldn't have it, nor consider what I was suggesting.
I began to breed my mares this way, and I was called a 'traitor' by their little henchman for doing so.
What strikes me as being 'phoney' is that these so called 'preservationists' didn't even know the horses they were representing. There was no lists of mares, no numbers of mares from each family, no further information which is normally present in a preservation organization such as statistics, etc.
Today, I am here, because I feel, and in my own opinion, this is NOT about E. at all. Rather this is about one persons quest for fame and fortune, who didn't get her way, and who hasn't done hardly a thing to help this organization she supports, rather she has severly compromised what 'could have been' a welcomed support to the breed. She left her members standing out in the cold with their horses, waiting for something they were promised which never came.
Yet all we see is a grandiose thread with the innuendo that they have this new, top secret evidence which solves this entire mystery that has allluded some of the most highest ranking SE breeders and well respected SE historians and researchers that we know in SE of all time.
In the past 15+ years, I have seen horses go to waste. I'm sickened when I hear of some who had insurance money collected on horses who died in tragic accidents, because the owners were NOT horsepeople, but were investors trying to make a quick buck on these horses. And breeders pleading, to please buy my horses I cannot afford to care for them.
It appears to me, and in my opinion, that SOFI made a big mistake in their research originally , thought they could cover it up, and then set out on a 20 year mission to prove the mare Exochoda. Added the 'auspices" in an attempt to include Exochorda and dismiss El Deree. HOWEVER, after 20 years, they stiill don't know how to INCLUDE this mare as coming from the 7 breeders. And, afterall that IS the premise of your organization? Why can't they ammend this defintion?
Simply because the ammendment would cause El Deree to be included, and this will no longer set them apart from SE and TPS.
Read what SOFI wrote:"Sheykh Obeyd Arabians are those horses bred by, acquired by, or introduced into the genetic stream by seven Foundation Breeders in Egypt that were drawn together by a mutual passion."
SOFI WEBSITE, referencing the definition of a SOFI horse.
"Miraculously, it has been maintained through like-minded breeders of succeeding generations, who have seen the vision of those 7 original breeders.
ABBAS PASHA - ALI PASHA SHERIF
WILFRED AND LADY ANNE BLUNT - AHMED BEY SENNARI
PRINCE AHMED PASHA KEMEL - KHEDIVE ABBAS II
ROYAL AGRICULTURAL SOCIETY
(under the auspices of Dr. Branch)"
Where's Henry Hebermann on this list?
Read the definition of SE. Compare them.
I mean this in the nicest possible way. The continuation of you presenting horses to raise questions on them, in an effort to take the focus of the discussion is showing how very very little one's understanding is to qualify a horse for SE and Al Khamsa. A true preservationists knows just how much info is needed to clarify a horse beyond a reasonable doubt. They met protocol, they have been decided upon, and based on this many have chosen to accept and breed these lines which fall under SE. This out the back door excuse to question other SE horses is divisive and not supportive of reasonable logic.
This had gone on waaaayyyy too long. These conversations end in hurt feelings. The hurt feelings cause people to say things they will regret. What friendships could have been formed are instead ending in feuds. This in NOT the way ANY responsible organization should behave.
It is very divisive to continue on these issues.
IF THERE WAS more information, it should have been presented by now.
My suggestion is to put this nightmare to bed already.
E. is Straight Egyptian
E. is Al Khamsa
Kimberli has pointed out numerous times, that E. is SOFI based on ONLY ONE reason which is because Caryn says it's so, and this organization is Caryn's baby. Apparently E. gets a free pass, and rules are being bent to include her in SOFI.
SO BE IT!
If someone wants to breed this line based on E,. or if someone bred this line because they want *Nasr blood, and it's the only way they can get it, well, then so be it. TO each their own. I think *Nasr blood is quite exceptional really.
And I'd like to quote someone who I find as being highly remarkable. He gave me the best advice I've gotten so far.
"Invest in your real estate and property, and then breed whatever the heck you like on your property." Steve Diamond.
Advice we could ALL benefit from.
Though the ups and downs over the years, I have never ever known you to not be willing to help someone with their horses. Sometimes we are ALL a little rough around the edges, but you have my respect and I admire you for the many years you have devoted to these horses and helping people all over the world.
If not for people like you, many of us would not have the courage to do what we must do for the sake of our horses.
And a word to the wise, next time you want to defame someone for being sick and tired of watching you beat Hansi and anyone else who disagrees with you to a bloody pulp on the forum, don't expect everyone to sit by and watch and put up with it or allow others to see only YOUR side of the story.
For the sake of everyone, PLEASE put this issue to bed and move on. Too many good people have been hurt by this.