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Dieter
Who is the breeder of Exo?
HLM
QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Feb 22 2012, 04:04 AM) *
Ya, people who write from the heart always start out by covering their bottoms with disclaimers. Does anyone think that its a little fishy to start off a long dissertation like that with a disclaimer? Is it kind of strange for a person to claim, in no unscertain terms, that a named party said something very specific to them -- AFTER qualifying that claim under the umbrella of "opinion"?

If someone is telling the truth, why do they need a "disclaimer"? They don't. So let me do this...let me respond, again, to Kelly Gobla's claim. It was a flat out lie then, its a flat out lie now. I never had any conversation with her, at the Egyptian Event or anywhere else, in which I said anything like what she claimed I said. Now, that's not my opinion, that's a fact. -- and no disclaimer needed. As far as the rest of her saga goes, she does have a colorful imagination...or maybe its a matter of personal projection.

How I've lived is who I am, and that's pretty easy to track. I have written no books, sold no books. I have never claimed to be a researcher nor an authority of any kind. Any information that I have acquired I have gladly shared freely with anyone genuinely interested. I have had no interest in, nor have I ever made any effort to increase my involvment in the Pyrmaid Society or any other Arabian organization, I retired from the Board Of Directors of SOFI several years ago and I've also retired from breeding. These actions don't exactly support Kelly Gobla's accounts of my motivation in defending the authenticity and qualifications of Exochorda over the years. I'm glad to be judged based on who considers me a friend, and equally glad to be judged based on who considers me a foe... and that pretty much sums it up for me.



Had no idea disclaimer are considered in the manner you explain.

I guess I need to talk to our attorneys, county offices, Accountants and other authorities adivsing that by their
putying these "disclaimers" on they are covering up the truth.

How far can anybody's imagine stretch? Should such "objecters" actually teach publically in schools or the likes,
(we were advised of such fact in earlier post) and receiving money for it, possible tax payers money,
it truly scares me to death.

BTW, Kelly also told me at the EE the same as she told Liz Dieter .

We have a saying in Germany" Show me who your friends are and I shall tell you who you are".
that says it all, right.

Hansi
Caryn Rogosky
A lie is a lie is a lie, and no matter how many times it is repeated, it does not magically turn into the truth. Disclaimers are used as an attempt to protect against law suits for libel or slander. When someone is telling the truth they have not committed libel or slander...and don't need to be protected from lawsuits. Professionals such as accountants and attorneys use disclaimers because they are operating on information provided to them by their clients as opposed to.first hand information. Kelly Gobla is not an accountant nor an attorney -- nor was she stating second hand information. Her statement was first hand information, something she claimed to experience personally -- but it was a lie, not an opinion. As I've already said, I'm proud to be judged by who my friends are...and by who my enemies are.
HLM
QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Feb 22 2012, 03:18 PM) *
A lie is a lie is a lie, and no matter how many times it is repeated, it does not magically turn into the truth. Disclaimers are used as an attempt to protect against law suits for libel or slander. When someone is telling the truth they have not committed libel or slander...and don't need to be protected from lawsuits. Professionals such as accountants and attorneys use disclaimers because they are operating on information provided to them by their clients as opposed to.first hand information. Kelly Gobla is not an accountant nor an attorney -- nor was she stating second hand information. Her statement was first hand information, something she claimed to experience personally -- but it was a lie, not an opinion. As I've already said, I'm proud to be judged by who my friends are...and by who my enemies are.



I often feelt that some folks dont know the difference between lies and truth. How do you explain your statement
of recent regarding W R Brown, referring you to your 2008 post?

BTW I asked you if you looked into the EAO Herdbook, in particular 1966 breedings and forward.
You have not replied. did you notice anything in particular, should you have searched through them?. I thought this would have been of importance to you and your friend M Lang, concerning Adhem.

You also claim that you are not a researcher etc,etc, but critizied my work since 1995 and never answered my simple questions. Instead you went on with bedtime stories.

I wished you had footnoted the discrepancy in the SOFI rules, and allowed people to make their own choice.
Instead you tried to whitewash, created false hopes and lead into false believes.
Now why did you do this please? Do you realize that this has done so much harm to the horse, has confused many people as well? Did you not appoint yourself as the President of SOFI at one time, or is this information wrong?
As a president one should really have a spotless shirt on, dont you think?

I am a great fan of Simeon Shai, a super stallion with an incredible show record. I truly love this horses and have seen excellent offspring of his as well. I have seen many others carry the mare line which were outstanding and still are.
So what is the problem? Are you not satisfied with her being accepted as an "Asil" mare? to me "Asil" is the highest form of a definition. Did you know that in the desert countries they even grade their camels between "Asil"
"Milkers" and "woolers". If you do know, does this not make you wonder?

I know of many, many "Asil" horses of excellence, just thinking of the Davenports, Doyles etc. Am I wrong by feeling that "Asil" means less to you and the horses mentioned -Davenports,Doyles, are of lesser quality or repute, which means many Al Khamsa horses?
If you were to visit other desert countries and see their herds/horses, they go by what is "Asil" or not, I assure you.
If one has seen the megnificent herd of the Marbat Stud,Saudi Arabia one can only be proud to own an "Asil".
these horses carry NO OTHER LABEL, stand on their own meritts. That goes for other bedu tribes too, such as the TAis for example.

I recommend again that this suject is closed to prevent further harm and anger, and let each horse stand on its own meriitt.

Hansi




Caryn Rogosky
QUOTE (HLM @ Feb 22 2012, 03:46 PM) *
I often feelt that some folks dont know the difference between lies and truth. How do you explain your statement
of recent regarding W R Brown, referring you to your 2008 post?
Hansi


I agree, "some" folks don't know the difference between lies and truth. I'm glad to explain my statement regarding W.R. Brown made in one post in 2008, its simple. I made a mistake and I stood corrected. Very simple. When I wrote that post I was thinking that Brpwm had already retired from his position at the the Arabian Horse Registry when he commented on Exochorda -- and I was wrong. No lie, just a mistake.

In the scope of things, how signifiant a mistake was that? How many bloodlines did I defame in making that mistake? How many breeders did I hurt in making that mistake? How much trouble did I cause within the SE Arabian community by making that mistake? How significant is that mistake when compared to the decades of terribly damaging misinformation which you have been propogating about Exohorda - nonstop? How does it compare to the decades of misinformation you have been propogating about Kars, inciting breeders against each other? Really, not all that significant I would guess -- but if its the best you've got, its the best you've got.
HLM
QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Feb 22 2012, 04:17 PM) *
I agree, "some" folks don't know the difference between lies and truth. I'm glad to explain my statement regarding W.R. Brown made in one post in 2008, its simple. I made a mistake and I stood corrected. Very simple. When I wrote that post I was thinking that Brpwm had already retired from his position at the the Arabian Horse Registry when he commented on Exochorda -- and I was wrong. No lie, just a mistake.

In the scope of things, how signifiant a mistake was that? How many bloodlines did I defame in making that mistake? How many breeders did I hurt in making that mistake? How much trouble did I cause within the SE Arabian community by making that mistake? How significant is that mistake when compared to the decades of terribly damaging misinformation which you have been propogating about Exohorda - nonstop? How does it compare to the decades of misinformation you have been propogating about Kars, inciting breeders against each other? Really, not all that significant I would guess -- but if its the best you've got, its the best you've got.



A Mistake? Stating you wrote about him 20 years ago in your articles, when you actually asked "who is he, possible a lesser person, in that essence iin 2008 and now again finding unacceptable excuses.? And what about Dr Menkerjous Rubber stamp and the forged pedigree of Adhem?
I guess to you this is truth, and I and others are dead wrong.

What you will have to learn that honest disclosure, telling the truth is helping, not hindering. Our people can deal with the truth, but it is hard to deal with lies, fabrications etc. One loses crediability, ever thought of it?
You make irresponsible statement again, and dont have the courage to stand up and be counted. How can anybody ever believen anything you say? I cant, simply dont trust you.

No matter what you state, dispite your dishonesty in disclosure, the line has progressed well and is respected where it counts. People are not stupid, they might not have your excellent english, but they do get the essence.

I always wondered why you would avoid answering questions I asked, like the herdbook of the eAO.
you told us all those stories about your visit of 2 weeks in Egypt, advised of all your discoveries you made during that time and gave us exactly what? You consistently discredit data I and others present and circumsize any reply to fit your purposes.

Well my, dear It does not work anymore, trust is lost, reputation blemished and in spite the line will carry on well, thanks to many astute breeders internationally.
I recommend to you to bcome a fiction writer, as I realize your immense talent for it. Honest research might just not be your cup of tea.

Hansi Melnyk
Caryn Rogosky
QUOTE (HLM @ Feb 22 2012, 04:25 PM) *
A Mistake? Stating you wrote about him 20 years ago in your articles, when you actually asked "who is he, possible a lesser person, in that essence iin 2008 and now again finding unacceptable excuses.? And what about Dr Menkerjous Rubber stamp and the forged pedigree of Adhem?


I think you need to go back and check your reading comprehension on past posts. You are misstating, interpreting and embellishing. I have no idea why you keep trying to bring up Adhem, but I sure as heck am not going to give you an opening to start bashing another qualified SE Arabian horse. Time to put the rubber stamp thing to bed...too silly to even explain, but your obsession with it is remarkable.
HLM
QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Feb 22 2012, 05:21 PM) *
I think you need to go back and check your reading comprehension on past posts. You are misstating, interpreting and embellishing. I have no idea why you keep trying to bring up Adhem, but I sure as heck am not going to give you an opening to start bashing another qualified SE Arabian horse. Time to put the rubber stamp thing to bed...too silly to even explain, but your obsession with it is remarkable.



I am sorry, but I cant put such under the rug.Yes, I have an obsession with TRUTH!. We always need to be reminded of lIARS/fabrikaters to be careful dealing with them. Bashing horses? Again you are untruthfull. Who is/has bashed horses? I THOUGHT WE ALL COMPLIMENTED THEM, rightfully so.

So it means you did not look at the EAO Herbood, otherwise you would have admitted it. Now you dont even know what I and others are talking about, eh. Have no fear Adhem is okay and was a great horse and producer/.
Now why would I think this should have been important to you to look into the Herdbooks? You forgot, that it was YOU who brought this horse up over the forum, TIME AGO, NOT I!. In your anger and hate you tried everything under the sun to discredit me and others. I guess Kelly was right, eh.

Hansi






2mntn
QUOTE (Lil Buddha @ Feb 19 2012, 09:11 AM) *
....

You have Phillipe Paraskevas book, right? Read the Kuhaylan Krush chapter, with regard to what you said about not every horse matching. On page 235, where the vertical pedigree begins with El Kahila, continuing though to page 236 and att the bottom of page 236, the author says the following El Shahbaa is the dam of El Mahrousa, the dam of Mahfouza, who is the dam of *Ibn Hafiza. It makes me sad, to realize that we had this blood and through misunderstanding and misuse, we don't have it anymore. No one went against the popular opinion and challenge the person who talked against the quality of the Inshass horses.


*Ibn Hafiza was an Abeyyan, not a Kuhaylan Krush. You may have confused the two Shahbaa's. (see the top of page 211). "WE", meaning the world, still has the blood of almost every export, including Krushan. According to Al Khamsa, almost 200 descendants of *Ibn Hafiza were born in the decade beginning in 2010. The Kuhaylan Krush strain has always been rare, but there are still a few asil individuals to be found. Throughout his book, Philippe laments the fact that certain bloodlines are gone from the EAO.

If you think you are sad about this, wait until you finish the book. Perhaps then you will also realize who those people were (and still are) who dictate popular opinion, and why the challenges to them have been few to non-existant. Someone did, and still does "go against popular opinion" (as established by the "dictators"), and look where it got her. Now THAT is sad.
Caryn Rogosky
QUOTE (HLM @ Feb 22 2012, 05:25 PM) *
A Mistake? Stating you wrote about him 20 years ago in your articles, when you actually asked "who is he, possible a lesser person, in that essence iin 2008 and now again finding unacceptable excuses.? And what about Dr Menkerjous Rubber stamp and the forged pedigree of Adhem?
I guess to you this is truth, and I and others are dead wrong.

What you will have to learn that honest disclosure, telling the truth is helping, not hindering. Our people can deal with the truth, but it is hard to deal with lies, fabrications etc. One loses crediability, ever thought of it?
You make irresponsible statement again, and dont have the courage to stand up and be counted. How can anybody ever believen anything you say? I cant, simply dont trust you.

No matter what you state, dispite your dishonesty in disclosure, the line has progressed well and is respected where it counts. People are not stupid, they might not have your excellent english, but they do get the essence.

I always wondered why you would avoid answering questions I asked, like the herdbook of the eAO.
you told us all those stories about your visit of 2 weeks in Egypt, advised of all your discoveries you made during that time and gave us exactly what? You consistently discredit data I and others present and circumsize any reply to fit your purposes.

Well my, dear It does not work anymore, trust is lost, reputation blemished and in spite the line will carry on well, thanks to many astute breeders internationally.
I recommend to you to bcome a fiction writer, as I realize your immense talent for it. Honest research might just not be your cup of tea.

Hansi Melnyk


I want to be sure that I am clear on this. Am I correct in understanding that:

1) You claim that I have made irresponsible statements which I am unwilling to support and defend? If yes, please list these statements and I will address them promptly, along with all relative supporting evidence.

2) You claim that I am dishonest, have lied, fabricated information and otherwise committed fraudulent acts? If yes, please list these here, with no disclaimers and without couching your accusations as "opinions" in order to wiggle around taking legal responsibility for your claims. Exactly what are the lies I have told? What have I fabricated? What fraud have I committed? These are simple questions based on your statements, and they require direct, specific, black and white responses.

3) You claim that my credibility has been destroyed by my behavior and therefore I cannot be trusted...is that correct?

With all of your talk about your obsession with truth, you should have no problem answering these three simple questions clearly and directly. No disclaimers and no opinions -- just yes or no along with examples of your proof. The way you answer these questions will be very helpful to readers in judging your own credibility. Thank you.
MHuprich
Well, I think one's level of trust in a person would be significantly decreased if you knew they knowingly violated an agreement they signed with the government, and where people put their horses there in trust that proper quarantine procedures would be followed on their horses and any other horses at the quarantine facility.

The below quote is from post 7 in the following topic http://www.straightegyptians.com/forum2/in...p?showtopic=195
http://www.straightegyptians.com/forum2/in...ost&p=78739

QUOTE (HLM @ Apr 7 2005, 05:29 PM) *
...
For all the kindness the Marshalls gave to me, I offered a free stud service to any mare of his,while in my Quarantine. Doug decided on Magidaa. This was against the Quarantine rules, but
I took a chance, knowing the mare would go to Texas, far away from my Canadian Farm. So we bred Magidaa and she got in foal produding Bin Magidaa, who became one of the best producing SE mares. Had I not taken this chance, there would have never been A Ruminaja Ali, and his brothers/sisters.

...
Hansi biggrin.gif


Just sayin.....

Caryn, have YOU violated any agreements you've had with a government? Have you ever placed other people's horses (or a wider country-wide agriculture) at risk via a violated quarantine procedure or facility?
HLM
QUOTE (MHuprich @ Feb 23 2012, 01:34 AM) *
Well, I think one's level of trust in a person would be significantly decreased if you knew they knowingly violated an agreement they signed with the government, and where people put their horses there in trust that proper quarantine procedures would be followed on their horses and any other horses at the quarantine facility.

The below quote is from post 7 in the following topic http://www.straightegyptians.com/forum2/in...p?showtopic=195
http://www.straightegyptians.com/forum2/in...ost&p=78739



Just sayin.....

Caryn, have YOU violated any agreements you've had with a government? Have you ever placed other people's horses iat risk via a violated quarantine procedure or facility?



Miss Hurpich

Again your remarks are so very typical of you. I had an excellent repoir with my Government and they fully
understood and agreed. I had enough buildings to seperate as well, 3 indoor arenas plus. Where did I put other people's horses at risk" Do you understand what my special quarantine was like and meant? The breedingh was at once reported by me and condoned, imagine. Matter of fact I was thereafter permitted to continue breeding.
At least I saved Soheir II's life, and that with the help of my Government and their trust in me, imagine. the trust continued by being allowed to continue as a quarantine for further imports and even today we are a private quarantine for the AGri here, when needed.

Now, if any of you would just contribute a fraction of what many of us have done, it would be great. But of course, also with you, it is always talk. shame on you.

Hansi


.

Hansi
MHuprich
If it had been part of an agreed-upon procedure and sufficient quarantine protocols were in place, then you would not have violated the quarantine. However, you are the one that said you violated the quarantine.

Since you felt you could break the Canada quarantine procedures, do you feel you can also violate the USDA quarantine procedures when you feel like you have a good reason for this?
Caryn Rogosky
QUOTE (MHuprich @ Feb 23 2012, 01:34 AM) *
Well, I think one's level of trust in a person would be significantly decreased if you knew they knowingly violated an agreement they signed with the government, and where people put their horses there in trust that proper quarantine procedures would be followed on their horses and any other horses at the quarantine facility.

The below quote is from post 7 in the following topic http://www.straightegyptians.com/forum2/in...p?showtopic=195
http://www.straightegyptians.com/forum2/in...ost&p=78739



Just sayin.....

Caryn, have YOU violated any agreements you've had with a government? Have you ever placed other people's horses (or a wider country-wide agriculture) at risk via a violated quarantine procedure or facility?



No, I haven't -- on any of the three points.
HLM
QUOTE (MHuprich @ Feb 23 2012, 01:47 AM) *
If it had been part of an agreed-upon procedure and sufficient quarantine protocols were in place, then you would not have violated the quarantine. However, you are the one that said you violated the quarantine.

Since you felt you could break the Canada quarantine procedures, do you feel you can also violate the USDA quarantine procedures when you feel like you have a good reason for this?



Mis Huprich

I had no idea how small your horizon is. I did not violate anything, it was NOT in the rules, that breeding was disalowed especially since no other horses came in or go out. I felt that I might have overstepped the line, but lateron found out that I actually did not, when I reported the case the next morning. The Govn.vets were at my place EVERY DAY, and I received high compliments as to how well I ran the quarantine, just as I do here. May be I should have stated more in my earlier post. But then I thought I dealt with intelligence, not with nitpickers who dont know what they are talking about, as usual. Disclosure is important, something I always do my dear. Do your buddies do that?
Not according to what I know. therefore, take a deep breath and re-think your statements and insinutions.

Trust has to be earned, I guess I did just that. Have you or your buddies? Not in my opinion.

Hansi



Caryn Rogosky
Quote Hansi:
"For all the kindness the Marshalls gave to me, I offered a free stud service to any mare of his,while in my Quarantine. Doug decided on Magidaa. This was against the Quarantine rules"

Is there any Equine Quarantine Station anywhere that does NOT prohibit contact between any of the horses in Quarantine?
Caryn Rogosky
Speaking of trust, waiting for Hansi to answers to my three questions.
Haris
And i am waiting to see these Exo horses that you own or that you breed .

Regards

Haris
MHuprich
Was *Khofo under quarantine at the same time?
HLM
QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Feb 23 2012, 03:15 AM) *
Quote Hansi:
"For all the kindness the Marshalls gave to me, I offered a free stud service to any mare of his,while in my Quarantine. Doug decided on Magidaa. This was against the Quarantine rules"

Is there any Equine Quarantine Station anywhere that does NOT prohibit contact between any of the horses in Quarantine?



Not to my knowledge, they often are also in one paddock, far removed from those not being quaranteed. Actually the rule is "6o" feet here in florida to be away from non-quaranteed horses.. My entire herd was quaranteed at that time too, It was also winter, no insects which can transmit anything, that was another rule we followed. Magidaa arrived in Oct./1968 and was bred by me
in March,1969 to produce Bint Magidaa in 1970. Any ,more questions? there were others we bred after last day of quaranteene. Tests showed clear, so no danger of any kind. I thought I overstepped a rule, but actually did not.
No wonder there was no objection by the Vets.. We even had some quaranteed mare foal during quaranteene time.
I guess I accused myself of something, which did not happen, eh.
Quaranteen was for "60 days". Due to the hard winter, lots of snow, most were picked up early spring 1969
as I remember.. I have every Govn, release on every horse with all data. I guess I have to go through them again, eh.

We turned horses out, and/or trained the quaranteened horses in our 3 indoor arenas. they were always in contact with each other, tested daily by the Gov. Vets..

However, I am glad Khofo++ bred Magidaa, otherwise there would not have been a ruminaja ali, etc.
It was his first wife too. And I am glad I saved Soheir II's life, otherwise there would have not been her lovely offspring. She stayed over two years in my quaranteene. Doug then offered her to me as a gift, which I did not accept, telling him that I can not accept such an expensive gift. BTW she came in in 1970 with the 32 head load and was released March 16/1973. Magidaa came in with the first- some 23 head..


Hansi







Dieter
QUOTE (MHuprich @ Feb 22 2012, 06:34 PM) *
Well, I think one's level of trust in a person would be significantly decreased if you knew they knowingly violated an agreement they signed with the government, and where people put their horses there in trust that proper quarantine procedures would be followed on their horses and any other horses at the quarantine facility.

The below quote is from post 7 in the following topic http://www.straightegyptians.com/forum2/in...p?showtopic=195
http://www.straightegyptians.com/forum2/in...ost&p=78739

Just sayin.....

Caryn, have YOU violated any agreements you've had with a government? Have you ever placed other people's horses (or a wider country-wide agriculture) at risk via a violated quarantine procedure or facility?
Not sure on that Melissa. If most folks had a mare in Hansi's quarantine and she GAVE them a breeding to *Khofo, they'd probably trust her more than ever wink.gif Sounds like a generous and very kind thing to do. As long as the entire facility was quarantined (and I imagine the Marshall's would be aware that it was) and this interlude was the only, who would really have a problem with it? :

That said, who doesn't cheat on their taxes, drive over the speed limit . . . that's an agreement we have with our government, can none of us can be trusted?

M.D.
QUOTE (MHuprich @ Feb 23 2012, 02:45 AM) *
Was *Khofo under quarantine at the same time?


-----------------
Caryn Rogosky
QUOTE (Caryn Rogosky @ Feb 22 2012, 11:07 PM) *
I want to be sure that I am clear on this. Am I correct in understanding that:

1) You claim that I have made irresponsible statements which I am unwilling to support and defend? If yes, please list these statements and I will address them promptly, along with all relative supporting evidence.

2) You claim that I am dishonest, have lied, fabricated information and otherwise committed fraudulent acts? If yes, please list these here, with no disclaimers and without couching your accusations as "opinions" in order to wiggle around taking legal responsibility for your claims. Exactly what are the lies I have told? What have I fabricated? What fraud have I committed? These are simple questions based on your statements, and they require direct, specific, black and white responses.

3) You claim that my credibility has been destroyed by my behavior and therefore I cannot be trusted...is that correct?

With all of your talk about your obsession with truth, you should have no problem answering these three simple questions clearly and directly. No disclaimers and no opinions -- just yes or no along with examples of your proof. The way you answer these questions will be very helpful to readers in judging your own credibility. Thank you.



I am still awaiting the answers to these three direct questions --
HLM
QUOTE (MHuprich @ Feb 23 2012, 03:45 AM) *
Was *Khofo under quarantine at the same time?



I believe I stated "my entrie herd". Meaning "the entire farm" Any other digs?

Hansi
Lil Buddha
PLEASE, it doesn't matter about *Khofo and Hansi did nothing wrong. *Khofo was a very good horse and at the very least, if there is one thing to be grateful to Hansi is the fact that *Khofo was bred to Magidaa and one of our greatest SE mares Bint Magidaa was born. Bioth Hansi and *Khofo need to be celebrated. This was a good thing. Bint Magidaa founded an excellent family of sons who are significant horses, very relevant to our breeding population. All of us need to be more responsible and not let the tragedy of the words that have been written in this discussion spill over into other areas to make them equally tragic. I speak for myself when I express that i am so disillusioned by the ungrateful spirit shown here and how the Otts and their efforts, despite people like Fairfax reminding us of the cost that the Otts invested in their life's work and how their life's work spilled over into the community and an organzation like Al Khamsa became possible. So please, for the sake of the horses like *Khofo, please be fair and if you can stop, that would be the best thing you can do.
MHuprich
Ralph,
I can't speak for others but can speak for my own opinon: The *Khofo x *Magidaa cross was great and very influential world-wide. I'm glad Hansi was able to take such good care of these horses especially the ones that needed special care. She had so many of the truly great ones through her quarantine. I don't think anything I have said has been critical of these great things.
Melissa

HLM
QUOTE (Lil Buddha @ Feb 23 2012, 05:33 PM) *
PLEASE, it doesn't matter about *Khofo and Hansi did nothing wrong. *Khofo was a very good horse and at the very least, if there is one thing to be grateful to Hansi is the fact that *Khofo was bred to Magidaa and one of our greatest SE mares Bint Magidaa was born. Bioth Hansi and *Khofo need to be celebrated. This was a good thing. Bint Magidaa founded an excellent family of sons who are significant horses, very relevant to our breeding population. All of us need to be more responsible and not let the tragedy of the words that have been written in this discussion spill over into other areas to make them equally tragic. I speak for myself when I express that i am so disillusioned by the ungrateful spirit shown here and how the Otts and their efforts, despite people like Fairfax reminding us of the cost that the Otts invested in their life's work and how their life's work spilled over into the community and an organzation like Al Khamsa became possible. So please, for the sake of the horses like *Khofo, please be fair and if you can stop, that would be the best thing you can do.



Thanks Ralph.
Yes many of us sacrificed a great deal for the sake of the horses, and none of the earlier importers I know, did it for monetary reason. combined we spent millions of dollars, were able to afford it and had hoped to give the County
something the younger ones can appreciate and continue.

It is easy today to import/export, but not at my time. I can honestly say, if I had to do it all over again I do it in a heartbeat. What I learned from these imports into my quarantine- about c.55- is immense.

Many of the imports did so well, and factually put the SEs on the map. If this were continued today, performance etc,
many a thing would look different. For a fact, all my imports shown became multiple champions, so did Gleannlochs, and others.

Let there be peace, please.

Hansi

Haris
Something is seriously wrong with you people , i would never ever come to the forum , but this nonsense , cretenizm and idiotizm thah you are displaying here is just disgusting.

Mrs Hansi basicaly changed SE breeding with that decision to bred Khofo to Magidaa , she gave the world a precious gift in Bint Magidaa , who in turn produced most dominant stallions , that in their own way changed the Arabian scene for the better and prettier not just SE scene but through Ali Jamaal and Anaza El Farid that sireline spread in such places where SE horses were considered "special paraolympics" and now they are recognized and cherished all over the world literaly .

She should be aplauded and revered for that decision , in my opinion she deserves monument for that action .The value of her choice is soo big it just cant be measured because horses that steems form that line are winning and winning all the time , be it WC or whatever Nationals ..

I for one salute mrs Hansi and will love her forever for doing that mating

Regards

Haris
HLM
QUOTE (Haris @ Feb 23 2012, 07:08 PM) *
Something is seriously wrong with you people , i would never ever come to the forum , but this nonsense , cretenizm and idiotizm thah you are displaying here is just disgusting.

Mrs Hansi basicaly changed SE breeding with that decision to bred Khofo to Magidaa , she gave the world a precious gift in Bint Magidaa , who in turn produced most dominant stallions , that in their own way changed the Arabian scene for the better and prettier not just SE scene but through Ali Jamaal and Anaza El Farid that sireline spread in such places where SE horses were considered "special paraolympics" and now they are recognized and cherished all over the world literaly .

She should be aplauded and revered for that decision , in my opinion she deserves monument for that action .The value of her choice is soo big it just cant be measured because horses that steems form that line are winning and winning all the time , be it WC or whatever Nationals ..

I for one salute mrs Hansi and will love her forever for doing that mating

Regards


Thanks Harris, hut I must also salute my collegues, the Marshalls, Kline,Ansata, Martin Loeber,J Enz, Huebner etc who entrusted me with their precious imports.

The reason my quarantine- after a long try with my Government- was okayed because vwrious imports died on arrival in NY at that time, the facilities being so poor at that time. this was the first in the history of Canada that a horse from the Middle East/Egypt set hoof on her soil. Both inportations where truly oustanding and I deeply honored that I could take care of them.

Sakr was also in my quarantine which I worked daily. He was then already white as a 2year old and a darling.
He then produced the great Nabiel (1971) out of Magidaa, although he was imported and belonged to Mr H Huebner in Texas.
Mr Huebner disposed of his imports, which included Bint Hanaa (Inshass) (1959) (a flying machine) barely 14,1 hands tall, and her daughter Gamilaa (1964) (about 15,1 H) absolutely oustanding Morafic daughter, and Deena (1967). His daughters had other plans ans Doug Marshall immediately bought the horses, all producing so well.

Yes Harris, I do it all over again, even sitting in the middle of my indoor arena with a heating blanket to watch the imports, some of which wanted to go home, and it was 15 below Zero, water in buckets froze in hours to big ice cubes, generators blowing up, etc.etc. But we all made it, eh..

I can never, ever forget any one of these magnificient horses and the sacrifices many did. And of course the incredible sucess in the show rings and breeding sheds.

So many books are written, but nothing is better than learning from the horses, and I learned a lot, still do.

Take care
Hansi.

karin
Please keep this topic polite, thank you.
Dieter
QUOTE (Lil Buddha @ Feb 27 2012, 04:31 PM) *
Speaking of contradictions Dieter, you remember saying this?????



Exochorda is a qualified SE horse, as defined by the Pyramid Society. Just to point that out to you but I think you know that already, since you are so impressed with the detailed record keeping of the Pyramid Society.

Ralph
Suarez, yes I do. I posted huge lists on how well the Egyptian Arabian does in performance and mentioned your reference. I continue to be impressed with the performance record keeping of TPS and agree Exo is SE, AK, SO, BS too as defined by those entities (though that means absolutely nothing to me and doesn't matter one bit when it comes to breeding a good horse). wink.gif
Lil Buddha
QUOTE (Dieter @ Feb 27 2012, 11:02 PM) *
Suarez, yes I do. I posted huge lists on how well the Egyptian Arabian does in performance and mentioned your reference. I continue to be impressed with the performance record keeping of TPS and agree Exo is SE, AK, SO, BS too as defined by those entities. wink.gif


No Dieter, that's not quite right. So, let's clarify because you can't have it both ways. You can't flip-flop on this one. What you said is:

QUOTE (Dieter @ May 29 2005, 02:57 AM) *
It is impressive how accurate and detailed the records are for the Pyarmid Society horses, Al Khamsa horses, and Sheyk Obeyd horses. This meticulous record keeping and sharing is what sets the propogation and promotion of the Egyptian horse apart from other bloodlines.


There is no mention of performance in these sentences. So, based on what you said above, then there should be no further questions about Exochorda, i.e. who her breeder was, what her correct birth year is, etc... You should not be hounding Caryn Rogosky on a forum for answers to questions that even the Pyramid Society is not asking, as their detailed, meticulous and accurate records include Exochorda.

Dieter
Suarez, Here's the entire post so readers can draw their own conclusions. Maybe you can turn that into something it's not too.

QUOTE (Dieter @ May 28 2005, 09:57 PM) *
Hi Pete,

I couldn't agree with you more that jealousy drives a lot of negativity in the direction of the Egyptian horse who do not deserve the thrashing. It is up to each owner to stop it whenever possible dispelling myths and lies with facts and truths.

It is impressive how accurate and detailed the records are for the Pyarmid Society horses, Al Khamsa horses, and Sheyk Obeyd horses. This meticulous record keeping and sharing is what sets the propogation and promotion of the Egyptian horse apart from other bloodlines. The Egyptian Event is the Pyramid Society's crown jewel too. It is unfortunate that AHA does not sanction the Egyptian Event (due to the European judging system?) resulting in a dismissal of all the accomplishments of every champion crowned there. It is my wish the Pyramid Society and AHA will come to an agreement to include Egyptian Event accomplishments in a horse's AHA sanctioned records. But as that may be unrealistic or off in the distant future, perhaps a method to identify the SE, AK and SO horse championship records sanctioned by AHA in the present time will be forthcoming? Until that day comes, here is the beginning of a layman's list of SE Champions:

Abraxas Halimaar (El Halimaar x SF Moon Maiden by Nabiel)
1999 Region XII Champion Dressage
Numerous Class A Championships in Dressage
1998 Region VII Halter Champion
1995 US National Champion Halter Stallion AAOTH
1995 Canadian National Champion Halter Stallion AAOTH
1994 Region VII Halter Champion

AF Cassidy (Thee Desperado x Alisaa by Ruminaja Ali)
1999 Egyptian Event Top Five World Class Stallions of 1995

AK Nagadi (Shaikh Al Badi x Khaldieh by The Egyptian Prince)
2000 Class A Native Costume Champion
1999 Class A Hunter Pleasure Champion
Multiple Class A Halter Championships, 1993, 1997, 1998

AK Najib Pasha (AK Shah Moniet x Bah Rouse by Ansata Abbas Pasha)
1990 Region XVIII Champion Halter Stallion
1990 Region XIV Reserve Champion Halter Stallion
1990 Region XVI Top Five Champion Halter Stallion
Multiple Class A Halter Championships 1987, 1989
1989 Class A Pleasure Driving

Ali Nefous (Ruminaja Ali x Ebony Ellena by Eskada Shamir)
1999 Multiple Class A Halter Championships
Egyptian Event Champion

Ali Zaar (Ruminaja Ali x Glorieta Zaafira by Ansata Abu Nazeer)
Multiple Class A Halter Championships 1992 through 1997

Ali Reshan (Ruminaja Ali x Dahmah Reshan by The Egyptian Prince)
1994 US Nation Top Ten Futurity Stallion
1994 Region XVII Champion Stallion
Multiple Class A Halter Stallion Championships 1993, 1994

Ali Rahaim (Thee Desperado x Muraja Alichia by Ruminaja Ali)
Multiple Class A Halter Championships, 1996, 1997
1995 Egyptian Event World Class Champion Colts

Alis Shaikhin (Prince Ibn Shaikh x Talsada by Talmaal)
1999 Region III Top Five Halter Stallion AAOTH
Multiple Class A Championships 1996, 1997, 1998

Ama Fa-Serr (PVA Kariim x Glorieta Saafrana by Ansata Abu Nazeer)
Multiple Class A Halter Championships 1998, 1999
1997 Egyptian Event Reserve Champion Futurity Colt


Ansata Chiron (Ansata Iemhotep x Hasbah by Messaoud)
Class A Reserve Champion Halter Stallion 1999, 2000

Ansata Hejazi (Ansata Halim Shah x Ansata Sudarra by Ansata Abue Sudan)
1996 Class A Reserve Supreme Champion Stallion
1995 Class A Reserve Supreme Champion Stallion

Ansata Iemhotep (Prince Fa Moniet x Ansata Nefara by Ansata Halim Shah)
1996 US National Top Ten Futurity Stallion
2000 Class A Champion Native Costume

Ansata Shah Zahir (Ansata Shah Zaman x Ansata Jamila by *Ansata Ibn Halima)
Egyptian Event Top Ten

Asasi Pandemonium (Mosry x Asasi Bint Arefah by Ansata El Sherif)
1998 Egyptian Event Show Hack Champion
1998 Egyptian Event First Place Winner of First Level Dressage, Test 3 and 4
1997 Region XII First Place Winner of Training Level Test 3

Barefoots Ladid (Nabiel x AH Ladada by AK Elzahra Moniet)
1998 Pro-Am Junior and Open Champion Country English Pleasure
1994 Region VIII Top Five Country English Pleasure
Multiple Champion in Performance - Class A
Twice Egyptian Event Unaminous Champion Country English Pleasure

BB Thee Renegade (Thee Desperado x PH Safina by *Lancers Sahm)
1997 US National Top Ten Futurity Colt
1995 Region XV Top Five Champion Colt

BG Maasai (Thee Desperado x DM Mimosa by AK EL Maalouf)
1998 Halter Champion 4 year old Extended Futurity and Top Five Liberty

BKA Raayah (Ruminaja Ali x AK Radia by *Ibn Moniet El Nefous)
Multiple Class A Halter Championships 1993, 1994

DR Jahalla (DR Jahim x DR Enshalla by Serr-Rom)
Multiple Working Performance Stallion for Breeding, Trail
(Competitive and Endurance), Reining and Pleasure

El Halimaar (*Ansata Ibn Halima x RDM Maar Hala by El Hilal)
1983 US National Top Ten Futurity Stallion

*El Mareekh (Aseel x Rawayeh by Alaa El Din)
1981 US National Top Ten Halter Stallion
Multiple Class A Championships in Halter, Pleasure Driving

ET Crown Prince (The Egyptian Prince x RDM Maar Hala by El Hilal)
Multiple Championships in Halter, Most Classic, Driving, Liberty
Grandsire of World Champion, *Simeon Shai


Farid Nile Moon (Anaza El Farid x GA Moon Tajhalima)
1999 Egyptian Event Reserve Champion Stallion
Region XIV Reserve and Top Five Halter Championships

Farres (Anaza El Farid x Shameerah by MFA Mareekh Amir)
1999 Egyptian Event Champion Stallions of 1995

Hadaya El Tareef (Imperial Imdal x Hadaya Nile Merytaten by Ansata Halim Bey)
1992 US and Canadian National Top Ten Stallion
1993 US and Canadian National Top Ten Stallion
Regions XII, XV, XVI and East Coast Champion Stallion 1993, 1992
1990 Class A English Pleasure Maiden Horse

Ibn El Mareekh (*El Mareekh x Bint Deenaa by *Ansata Ibn Halima)
1988 Multiple Class A Halter Championships

*Ibn Safinaz (Seef x Safinaz by Alaa El Din)
1987 US National Top Ten Halter Stallion
1991 Region XV Reserve Champion Pleasure Driving
1991 Region XV Champion English Pleasure
Numerous Class A Championships in English Pleasure, Driving and Halter

Immell (Imtaarif x Aniya by *Ibn Moniet El Nefous)
1998 Region IX and Region XI Top Five Sweepstakes Colt
1999 Multiple Class A halter Championships
Egyptian Event Top Five

Imperial Al Kamar (El Hilal x Imperial Sonbesjul by Hossny)
1988 Region XVIII Champion Halter Colt
Multiple Class A Halter Reserve Championships 1988, 1989, 1990

Imperial Imdal (Ansata Imperial x Dalia by *Morafic) Legion of Honor
1988 US National Reserve Champion Stallion
1990, 1987 US National Top Ten Champion Stallion
1987 Region XV Champion Stallion
1986 Region XVI Champion Stallion
World Champion Stallion Salon Du Cheval, Paris
Egyptian Event Supreme Champion Stallion Twice
Multiple Class A Championships in Halter 1986, 1987, 1990, 1991

Imperial Kamilll (Imperial Al Kamar x Imperial Mistilll by *Jamilll)
2000, 1999 Region XV Reserve Halter Champion
Multiple Class A Halter Championships 1997

Imperial Baarez (PVA Kariim x BB Ora Kalilah by *Orashan)
1999 US National Top Ten Futurity Colt
1999 Egptian Event Supreme Champion Stallion
Multiple Class A Halter Championships 1997, 1999

Marquis I (Makhsous x Antigua Dance by Ruminaja Bahjat)
1998 Region V Top Five Champion Halter Stallion
Multiple Class A Championships in Halter 1995, 1998
Multiple Egyptian Event Reserve World Champion Stallion

Macknificent KA (Makhsous x Star Bint Hafiza by Ibn Dahmahn)
US National Top Ten Futurity Champion 1998
US National Top Ten Colt 1996
Region IX Champion Halter Futurity Colt, 1996
Region IX Reserve Champion Halter Stallion, 1998

Noribba (*Norus x *Ghariba by Farag III)
1999 Region XVIII Reserve Champion Basic II Dressage
1999 Region XVIII Top Five Open Show Hack
1998 Eastern Canadian Breeders Show Hack Champion
Multiple Championships in Hunter Pleasure and Show Hack

*Orashan (Messaoud x Ora by Ibn Shaker I)
1990 Canadian National TT Country Pleasure
1991 US National TT Stallion Halter
1991 Region 15 Champion Country Pleasure Driving
1990 Scottsdale Reserve Champiion Country Pleasure Driving
1989 Egyptian Event Supreme Champion Stallion
Multiple Class A Championships, Country Pleasure Driving, Country English Pleasure

Imtaarif (Imperial Imdal x Taarifa by *Moatasim)
1993, 1994 Egyptian Event World Class Champion Stallion
1996 Reserve Senior Worl dClass Champion Stallion
Multiple Class A Halter and Performance Championships and Reserves 1991 - 1998

Richter MH (El Halimaar x Fasarra by *Farazdac)
1997 US and Canadian National Top Ten Futurity Colt

Rio Desert Son (NQ Desert Run x AK Galila by Shaikh Al Badi)
Multiple Class A Halter Championships 1997, 1998, 1999

Ru Faserr Sharouf (AK Sharouf x RU Daybrina x Ru Egyptian Day)
1992 Class A Halter Champion

Schzarad Thundor (Thee Minstril x S Nambe Nabiel)
2005, 2003, 2001, 2000, 1999 Champion Jumper at Scottsdale
2004 Sporthorse National Jumper Champ
2001 US National Champion Jumper
1999 US Reserve National Champion Jumper
Region 7 and 8 Champion Jumper
Numerous Class A and Open Jumper Champion

Shaikh El Sherif (Shaikh Al Badi x AK Sherifa by Ansata El Sherif)
1997 Class A Mulitple Championships in Country English Pleasure
1994, 1990 Class A Championships in Halter
1993 Class A Multiple Championships in Pleasure Driving

*Simeon Shai (Ra'Adin Royal Star x Simeon Safanad by Sankt Georg)
1991 US and Canadian National Champion Stallion
1991 Scottsdale Grand Champion Stallion
1991 World Champion Stallion - Salon Du Cheval, Paris, France

Tammen Shah (Tammen x Shahdah by Amir Ibn Shamah)
2000 Class A Champion in Native Costume
1998 Country English Pleasure Stakes Reserve Champion
Multiple Class A Championships in Halter 1993, 1996, 1997, 1999

The Minstril (Ruminaja Ali x *Bahila by Ibn Galal I)
1993 US and Canadian National Top Ten Stallion
Multiple Class A Halter Championships 1986 through 1989, 1991 through 1993

Thee Desperado (The Minstril x AK Amiri Asmarr by The Egyptian Prince)
1994 US Reserve National Champion Stallion
1993 US and Canadian National Top Ten Stallion
1994 Scottsdale Unanimous Grand Champion Stallion
Region 9 Grand Champion Stallion

Thee Infidel (Thee Desperado x Bint Magidaa by *Khofo)
1999 US National Futurity Top Ten
1998 Class A Country English Pleasure Junior Horse
Multiple Championships in Class A Halter 1996, 1997, 1998

Thee Gambler (Thee Desperado x Aliadaarra by Alidaar)
1996 Scottsdale Top Five Champion
1997 US National Top Ten Stallion
1997 Canadian Reserve National Champion Stallion
1998 Egyptian Event World Class Champion and Reserve Senior Champion Stallion

Thee Rasmoniet (Thee Desperado x Rasmonieta by Rasmoniet RSI)
1999 Class A Multiple Championships in Halter

Voo Doo (Prince Charming x Phoenix Gazelle by AK ElZahra Moniet)
1998 Region XVIII Reserve Champion Dressage
1998 First Place Training Level Dressage - Egyptian Event
Multiple Championship Halter Stallion

Ziba Jalisa (Mahksous x Kahleelah)
1999, 2000 US National Champion Working Cow Horse
2004, 2001 US National Reserve Champion Working Cow Horse
1999 Region 9 Reserve Champion Working Cow Horse
Multiple Class A Working Cow

Lil Buddha
Well Dieter, I am glad that you posted the whole thing, because I really like how you opened up your message. i must have missed it, stupid me! smile.gif

QUOTE
QUOTE (Dieter @ May 28 2005, 09:57 PM)
I couldn't agree with you more that jealousy drives a lot of negativity in the direction of the Egyptian horse who do not deserve the thrashing. It is up to each owner to stop it whenever possible dispelling myths and lies with facts and truths.


And I guess that is what I am trying to do, to stop the myths, the lies, the bullshit. It's tiring to read the same thing, over and over. It's time for new beginnings.
Dieter
QUOTE (Lil Buddha @ Feb 27 2012, 09:15 PM) *
Well Dieter, I am glad that you posted the whole thing, because I really like how you opened up your message

And I guess that is what I am trying to do, to stop the bullshit. It's time.
Okay Suarez and the best of luck to you in that endeavor.
HLM
QUOTE (Dieter @ Feb 28 2012, 03:15 AM) *
Suarez, Here's the entire post so readers can draw their own conclusions. Maybe you can turn that into something it's not too.



thanks Liz for postng the accomplishments of various Se, we all were so proud over.
But that was in most cases almost TWO DECADES AGO and is exactly what I often refer too, that little is done thereafter.

I know that vaious Pritzlaff horses, Ravenwoods, Babsons and also the Serenty Horses, etc continue successfully here and internationally in stress performances etc. Actually many are very formidable competitors.

Take care
Hansi

.
Dieter
QUOTE (HLM @ Feb 28 2012, 07:48 AM) *
thanks Liz for postng the accomplishments of various Se, we all were so proud over.
But that was in most cases almost TWO DECADES AGO and is exactly what I often refer too, that little is done thereafter.

I know that vaious Pritzlaff horses, Ravenwoods, Babsons and also the Serenty Horses, etc continue successfully here and internationally in stress performances etc. Actually many are very formidable competitors.

Take care
Hansi

You are welcomed Hansi and you are right. That list was posted a long time ago, so really needs to be updated. The amazing Shy Gayfeen++++// and Amiin+// are not on that list. There have been many accomplishments by SEs, many owned by small breeders or pleasure owners that really deserve to be noted. It will be something that I may be able to focus on this coming year.

Have a great day Hansi.
Liz
HLM
QUOTE (Dieter @ Feb 28 2012, 02:35 PM) *

You are welcomed Hansi and you are right. That list was posted a long time ago, so really needs to be updated. The amazing Shy Gayfeen++++// and Amiin+// are not on that list. There have been many accomplishments by SEs, many owned by small breeders or pleasure owners that really deserve to be noted. It will be something that I may be able to focus on this coming year.

Have a great day Hansi.
Liz



Thanks Liz, and yes we both are on the same wave length. We both always and ever draw attention TO ALL SES/Asils, regardles of breeder or owner and try to help our dedicated smalller breeders.
Many have such good horses and many are doing so well. When it comes to marketing, often they are are overlooked, which is a mistake I feel.

take care
Hansi

Dieter
QUOTE (HLM @ Feb 28 2012, 09:17 AM) *
Thanks Liz, and yes we both are on the same wave length. We both always and ever draw attention TO ALL SES/Asils, regardles of breeder or owner and try to help our dedicated smalller breeders.
Many have such good horses and many are doing so well. When it comes to marketing, often they are are overlooked, which is a mistake I feel.

take care
Hansi
Dear Hansi,

I couldn't agree with you more. A good horse is a good horse and at the end of the day, that's what really matters the most. smile.gif
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