Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: The Pyramid Society- Arabian News
StraightEgyptians.com Forum > Overview - Übersicht > Discussion - Diskussion
Pages: 1, 2, 3
HLM
Dear Friends

These are the greatest news I have read for a long time. all our prayers must have been heard. Read about the promotion for the Tevis Cup 2008 or 2009..

Many of us have been battling their heart and brain out .feeling we talked to the wall. Well, I guess the walls answered.

It feels so wonderful to realize that many of our old bloodline horses/offspring now have a chance, will receive promotion, regardless of breeder and owners.
People selected to assist are well chosen and it is asked for volunteers, and I guess there will be many

I am so sad, that I can no longer ride, although we have the horses which could do it, but Bill and I can help in other ways. There will be some of our people who are not in a top financial position, and may be we could start a fund to at least help them getting there and back. Now these magnificent contenders ,regardles of breeder or owner will have a chance, and I salute you Pyramid Society to open the doors.

I just know that our oldtimers gone, will look down on us, Richard Pritzlaff, Doug and Margaret Marshall, Martin Loeber, Jarrel McCracken, Tom McNair, Barbara Johansen, Rick Heber, Jim Kline , with a great big smile and silently will be watching bill Trapp ,Pete Cameron, Barbara Lewis, and many others still with us.

This will create such an enthusiasm, such hope, such joy seeing the doors wide open, being given a chance, and for the magnificent Se horses, a field day,
something they have been waiting for a long time.

Forgive my typing, I have trouble seeing and typing, but please all of you pick this subject up and LET IT FLY. (YUP, THIS IS A "SHOUT". Issue you helping ideas,
take part, and for me I will send the PS a heartfilled thank you note with this post.

Thanks PS, now there is a light at the end of the tunnel.So happy I can see it before I go.

A very happy Hansi biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Serenity Arbian Farms

.
Nadj al Nur
What is the news you are talking about, Hansi. I don't have the magazine.......
Cathy
Sumerlan
Cathy:

Here is the pre-announcement ... located on The Pyramid Society's website.

STRAIGHT EGYPTIAN TO COMPETE IN THE 2008 TEVIS CUP
As many of you know, the Western States Endurance Ride, better known as the Tevis Cup, is the world's most grueling ride. It covers100 miles in one day and is challenging to both horse and rider, testing them to extremes. This ride, held the end of July each year, is the peak for endurance riders.

Since many Straight Egyptian Arabians participate and do very well in the Tevis, The Pyramid Society Board felt it would be advantageous if The Society were able to have some recognition in conjunction with the ride.

The Society is hopeful that one of our members with a Straight Egyptian horse already started in distance riding, would be willing to send that horse for training with Heidi Vanderbilt in Arizona. Heidi has completed the Tevis many times and her farm is designed for building bone and great condition by having the water at the top of the mountain and the feed at the bottom. Heidi trains the horses for the conditions they will face in the Tevis. The ride covers altitudes from 800 feet all the way to 8000 feet. These horses must be conditioned in that kind of mountainous terrain in order to move through the rugged trail to come.

In addition to being a very knowledgeable and compassionate horsewoman, Heidi is also a writer. She would regularly communicate the progress of the Straight Egyptian to its owner, and would then pass along the information to all members through the Chariot and e-mails. In essence, The Society would have a horse to root for.

Heidi has a back-up rider and horse that would train with the designated horse. These riders and horses will be promoting The Pyramid Society. And The Society would call on volunteers from the membership to crew for the ride alongside experienced Tevis ride crews. At the end, with completion, this horse would be in condition to excel in any endurance ride.

The Society would like to shoot for the '08 Tevis but if necessary will go for '09. For more information and to receive a packet with information and stories about the Tevis, contact Susan Watson, (281) 537 - 8606 or Mistil2@aol.com.

We look forward to hearing from you to see if we can make this a part of the performance and working horse side of The Pyramid Society.



Hope this helps ...

Sumerlan
Liz Salmon
That's great news—maybe it's the start to paying more attention to performance in the future.
HLM
Dear Cathy

It is a good magazne, it shows all the regional news etc Here is their Phone Number: 304-272-3433

Hansi biggrin.gif
HLM
HI Liz (Salmon)

May be a good start would be the 2008 endurance rides at the EE.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Desert Tag Arabians
This is great, and I commend the Arabian News (published and printed here in West Virginia smile.gif ) for sharing this.

Angela
Nadj al Nur
I have read this over several times and what I get is that the PS is asking someone, anyone, to give up a horse that they feel is Tevis Cup material, into the care and training of someone else. Might be OK for someone like me, who is not capable of making such a ride, but, somehow, I can't see someone like Ken Keele going along with this...........can you????
Cathy
2mntn
Cathy - not just "no", but hell no!

My SE candidates are not old enough yet and if they were, I sure ain't about to send them off into the hands of the unknown. Nothing against this person, might be the best there is, but!

Why don't they just offer a monster cash reward, sign up SE riders/horses for PS bragging rights, commericals, etc?

Ray
Nadj al Nur
Exactly my point Ray. The Tevis is a horse/human partnership and MOST people that enter have built up that partnership with their horse over a long period of time. Why give it to someone else, even tho that person may be very good.
I agree with you.
Cathy
2mntn
Dear Hansi,

I don't want to put a damper on your enthusiam for what appears to be a step in the right direction for the PS.

What do you think about this? Will someone have the kind of SE it takes for this job and will they be willing to part with it? I know you had great hopes, and so did I, for Serenity Mujib. He was perfect for this job - if you still had him would you send him to this person?

Best, biggrin.gif
Ray
heidip
Ray if I had the right horse in the proper age for this I'd do it in a snap, I sure couldn't ride the trevis.
BaileyArabians
It'd be nice if they could just reward the horse and rider for their hard work. Even if it's something small like a plaque or something, without imposing rules that split up the team itself.

I think they are in the right frame of mind, I think perhaps they should have shopped the idea around and maybe would have seen this kind of response earlier and could have adjusted for it.

Overall it's a nice move.

Kathy
Echo1
Hansi, Mike,

I have some great SE Pritzlaff horses ....and have bred and raisied 100 miler SE endurance horses before...I'd donate the SE horses for this cause, but only to someone who I trust with them.
If TPS will consider another team for the Tevis cup, I'll donate two horses who are prime for this event, if Mike (Heirloom) will ride and train, and Hansi will supervise.

Kelly
Echo Hill Arabians
Cheryl L
This is the information about Heidi Vanderbilt on the Souther Arizona Arabian Horse Association:

LuckyPup Ranch

Heidi Vanderbilt
11650 S. Wrong Mountain Rd..
Benson, AZ 8560

LuckPupRanch@earthlink.net

LuckyPup Arabains breeds, raises, and conditions horses for endurance, competitive trail and pleasure riding. Our horses have 3 Tevis Cup completions. We bred the 2003 Scottsdale Junior Reining Champion. The ranch is designed to raise performance horses in a rugged, natural setting. We offer long-term boarding, and will raise, rest, or retire your horse in our hilly pastures or large corrals. References available, prices on request.


If I had a horse ready, I would send it in a heartbeat. This is a great opportunity for someone that is not ready to or unable to ride in endurance races. I wonder what the cost would be?
This is a very intriguing offer. The horse is sent to this person, the owner is constantly updated on progress and so will The Chariot.
I really think this is a great idea.
Cheryl
HLM
Okay folks, we gotte start somewhere. PS is holding out a healing hand.
so let me reply briefly.

Kelly and robert: You always offer a helping hand.Thanks for this.

Nancy, I had hoped, prayed that for instance some garden ornament stallions are being trainend to enter, dont have to win, just finish at least half way.Pleae cathy, lets not throw out the baby with the bathing water.

Ray: I have three horses here right now who could be competitive. Serenity Muhammid, stallion- Amir Mon Serr, a gelding, and Serenity Shatreem we just gelded and has to be broke yet. Each one coould do well and we do have 1,5 years, if we consider 2009. theresa Maloof in Boumanville, Colorado has a super young one who could be taugh.

I dont think we should right away discount Heidi, I have not seen her ride, but we all can check that out. She obviously has experience. I dont think they meant donating, I think they meant give it into training with her which will cost. Correct me please, if I misunderstood. If I am right then it would take about $ 10,000 training/upkeep costs plus whatever.

It is correct, one has to have a repoir with the horse, realy know it to get the best out of it.

The idea of getting a team together is fabulous.We need the horses and the riders.
It is the latter which might prove difficult.

As you know our Tevis cup winner has been invited to the 100miler in dubai for Feb.this year. He has a fantastic horse, but it is a mountain horse I think
and those 100 miles are deadly straight on sandy/cravel desert- and hot -Mountain horses usually are not flat racers, and this is what it would take, flat race 100 miles.

Suggestion: Why dont we all get together those interested and plan. Why dont we try to have all interested parties participate at the Ee endurance races, even if it is only in the ten miler.

I cant ride anymore, but I can train. Gladly, if someone wants to bring their tent and the horses, I teach and help you the best I can. Even Ken Keele got a few lessons here. We all here and there need a few lessons again, no matter how good we are.

Here is what we need to come up with:
Number of horses and riders
Money to get them there and back
Money donors, like our big farms.
Volunteers to assist.
Getting Ken Keele to give us all a simple lexture, explantions, etc.

THE ESSENSE OF ALL THIS IS : (I am not shouting, just emphazing)
get the SEs together, get the larger farms do help financially, get the expert help
of some oldtimers, like stane White, Sen.(to handle,ride and preserve the horses)
Get together with Martha Lucas former superb President of the PS, encurance expert,Col.Tommy Ticktin and his wife Maggi, expert in co-ordinating and having also super SEs which could do it all, as has Martha Lucas.And Yes, I am here to help with anything I can. Serenity gladly opens her gates for short or long time training- NO CHARGE FOR TRAINING.
We can also ask Mike of Heirloom Arabians ( how can we overlook putting 3000 taugh riding miles under his Mon Amir stallion's belly.

If we all work together, are optimistic- leave the pessimisting in 2007, I know WE CAN DO IT. So Please, lets try out at the EE in 2008, what better place to test, to determine, eh? PS now opens the doors, please my friends lets walk through it
and walking tall.Let's appreciate the effort, it took so many years to even get them this close.

Please read this post in fairness. I can hardly see anymore or type. Hopefully this will change with the eye operation Jan.16/08. than I will be just like new, Inshallah.

All of you my friends, come up with constructive ideas, think over what you can help with and please let us give it a run for the roses. We might never get that chance again.

all take care
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Heirloom Arabian Stud
Because my name was mentioned, i feel the need to respond,
what i am reading is,,,,,,,the PS is will to sponser one horse and rider,and possibly a backup as a team to promote THEM,! Not a team of SE,s and riders, but someone to promote the TPS under the guidlines mentioned,! As well it seems to mention that they want a rider and horse to go to heidi, that already has some experance, SO, i would guess, you cant send a wannabe to this lady, both horse and rider, will probably need to be an experanced team!
Another thing for everyone to consider,
The Tevis, is a hell of a race, and they WILL not let a novice horse and rider compete, I believe, you have to have several sauntioned races under your belt before they will let you ride,

AS far as putting a team togeather its wonderful idea, but regardless of who trains the horses, the riders need to be in condition as well, and i also think some sort of repor needs to be between horse and rider!
i also agree with finding riders will be the problem,

As far as myself, Ill be glad to help, I also train in the mountians and under harsh conditions, but we will need riders as i can only ride one horse,,lol, I can train and condition several, but could only ride one,

Looks like a seperate team of Se,s and riders needs to be put togeather, if i,m understanding the PS right,,

I also think the EE race would be a good place to start,

Not trying to put a damper on what the PS is doing, but i,m understanding this to be a way for them to promote themselves, NOT a big team of SE orses,
Someone correct me if i,m wrong?

Mike
Heirloom Arabian Stud
Heirloom Arabian Stud
I read the posts again, and indeed it looks like TPS is sponsering one horse and rider, and a back up rider, As far as another team Kelly,, i dont know!

Once again, i advise anyone talkng about donateing a horse, please go look at the RULES for the TEVIS and the pictures, and as well speak to a few competors, MAKE sure you are willing to put your horse thru this kind of ride, I very much recomend that any horse considering the Tevis have done several 50,s or even a 100 miler before,
It really looks like to me that a seperate team is in order, and I mean a TEAM, I doubt the PS will do this, and that means horses, funding, training, riders, crew, transportation, lots and lots more to think about!

And as someone already mentioned, you cant properly train a horse for the TEVIS on flat ground, needs to be trained in the mountians, the climbs and the lack of air at high elevations, will send most horses home, And I cant say this enough,,,, the rider has GOT to be in condition as well, and in tune with the horse,

This all boils down to what people really want and who is willing to step up to the plate and promote the SE,

Im, willing. anybogy else,

Mike
Echo1
QUOTE (Heirloom Arabian Stud @ Dec 28 2007, 12:37 AM)
I read the posts again, and indeed it looks like TPS is sponsering one horse and rider, and a back up rider,  As far as another team Kelly,, i dont know!

Once again, i advise anyone talkng about donateing a horse, please go look at the RULES for the TEVIS and the pictures, and as well speak to a few competors, MAKE sure you are willing to put your horse thru this kind of ride, I very much recomend that any horse considering the Tevis have done several 50,s or even a 100 miler before,
It really looks like to me that a seperate team is in order, and I mean a TEAM, I doubt the PS will do this, and that means horses, funding, training, riders, crew, transportation, lots and lots more to think about!

And as someone already mentioned, you cant properly train a horse for the TEVIS on flat ground, needs to be trained in the mountians, the climbs and the lack of air at high elevations, will send most horses home, And I cant say this enough,,,, the rider has GOT to be in condition as well, and in tune with the horse,

This all boils down to what people really want and who is willing to step up to the plate and promote the SE,

Im, willing. anybogy else,

Mike
*


Mike,

I'm sure Heidi and TPS will find a great horse, and be very competitive.
And, although TPS is looking to sponsor just one horse and rider, I'm sure they wouldn't discourage other SE horses from competing

I'm in !!!
I'm a daisy if I don't. biggrin.gif

Kelly
2mntn
Hi Kelly - you're a Daisy in any case. laugh.gif wink.gif (just kidding!!)

One thing really puzzles me with this. Why in the sam-patch doesn't Crockett Dumas get any recognition from TPS? Or maybe he does? Dude has been riding endurance since JC was a kid and using SE's EB's SO's, AK's. So what's the deal?

If anyone is interested in reading about the REAL DEAL in endurance, check out Crockett's website The Outlaw Trail

The Tevis is a tough ride, in this day and age, but not all that tough with the right horse, equipment and knowledge. It isn't free and it isn't easy, but some of you folks could probably do better than you think. biggrin.gif

Ray
Echo1
QUOTE (2mntn @ Dec 28 2007, 01:57 AM)
Hi Kelly - you're a Daisy in any case.  laugh.gif    wink.gif  (just kidding!!)

One thing really puzzles me with this.  Why in the sam-patch doesn't Crockett Dumas get any recognition from TPS?  Or maybe he does?  Dude has been riding endurance since JC was a kid and using SE's EB's SO's, AK's.  So what's the deal?

If anyone is interested in reading about the REAL DEAL in endurance, check out Crockett's website The Outlaw Trail 

The Tevis is a tough ride, in this day and age, but not all that tough with the right horse, equipment and knowledge.  It isn't free and it isn't easy, but some of you folks could probably do better than you think.  biggrin.gif 

Ray
*


Great question, one I'd love to hear the answer to as well....this was The FIRST Nazeer son imported to the USA. The "owner" also imported The FIRST Nazeer daughter to the USA in 1958.
Nancy Bourque/Ibriz Arabians
That sounds like a wonderful opportunity for someone who is willing to let a horse go to someone else, which is not much different after all than sending your horse out to a trainer to be trained and shown. But, I wonder if it wouldn't be a nicer thing to sponsor some very willing and able SE horse/rider combination who would love to compete but just can't make it there on their own? Wouldn't that be great encouragement for some dedicated rider with a great horse?
Nadj al Nur
That sounds like a great idea Nancy. What do the rest of you think about that???
Cathy
Desert Tag Arabians
I agree that it is a great idea smile.gif. There have been some wonderful ideas and information posted here, and it always gets me excited to see things like these in forums...excitement, ideas, and support for the breed, in the way it should be.

I know that I'd jump at a chance like this, if only my boy was ready...I hope an opportunity like this, and like the suggestions made, will be available in the future. I hope that this can become something great, something viable, and something that perhaps someday I can be a part of smile.gif.
KHA`LILAH
Returning the Arabian to the desert is an art, focus on fine.
The important part of a leader's job is preparing others for what lies ahead, whether in the concrete terms of an actual scenario or the more conceptual terms of a vision.
In 2007 I was reminded of the power of one voice, an Arab racing society accepted dislodgement, when its finances changed. Determination won. Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
The SE has hundreds of members “free” to support the Tevis Cup.
Why is a question, Not a state of being!
Why Not…….
HLM
Good morning everybody

Thanks for these great ideas and thoughts.

Mike, you are right, it takes ahorse which has other wins/miles under the belly.
I dont know if the PS just wants to promote itself here, you al have to ask them.

I am aware of the details of the tevis Cup for many years and indeed a horse trained in the mountains would be a better choice. The same goes for flat racers,they might not be able to do as good. Altitute also must be taken into account. I guess the Tevis can be compared with the "Olympics" for a horse.
It is the ultimate and does take the right horse and rider.

However, I was thinking that the PS at least gets the thought into their head that the SEs can do much more than just standing at halter and help promoting it..

The endurance races I watched at the EE- truly are an excellent start. Those 10,25,50 milers are not heartbreakers,befitting any horse able and ready for either.
If these races were to be promoted by the PS a bit better, like TV,media,overall public with a special booth it would draw a lot of attention by the locals. After all, Kentucky is known for having a number of stress performance events.
Also felt it a bit shamefull that 90 percent of the entries are other than SEs

The essence of all is to get those SEs to perform, and we all know that many can do it all. We have to find a way to have halter classes as a necessary evil event, rolleyes.gif because in many cases the best horse does not win.

There are many oldtimers Endurance master riders, like Hal Hall, and others,
and even Ken Keele can help. What I like to know is who suggested this Heidi,what the realtionship is. Knowing this we all can jump to conclusions. I have a list of all the Tevis cup events/riders and which riders truly shined.You all can pull such list off your computer too. dont have off hand the link. this Heidi could be really somebody, but I still get concerned when it is a PS selection, knowing that politics still prevail. Until the PS gives a voting right to all members, little can be done about it in my opinion.

Many years ago and many times I suggested to the PS to create a "fund"
to help those of our people who have the horses, know how to ride but dont have the finances. What could already help in this regard is, if seminars or special events hosted by some large farms and which charge for attenting such, would donate the entire intake to such fund. And/or donating a portion of the stud auction fees to it. They are promoting with such events themselves and their horses by and large I think. I also feel it is "payback time".I think the PS took in over $ 200,000 this year on donated stud fees, fifty percent of this going into such fund would be a great help. Ad the Imperial seminar, and we would have enough to
finance a team

Forever I see the Qhorse organization promoting the young ones.You can watch this over the TV RFd station. Now why cant we do this? the AHA does not do this, they are obviously interested in only making themselves sustain-like the ridiculous request for stallion reports now. they almost say with this "we dont trust the dNA"
Instead of helping all of us, they give us more work to do.We should really think of boy cotting this unreasonable new rule. It also cost them for checking and filing such reports. Talk about waste of money, eh?

IN any case, what matters overall is to get these SEs under saddle to be tested in stress performance, and since "racing" is in the blood of our SEs, and the ultimate test, it should be strongly persued.

Just my humble opinion. All have a grand day.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Heirloom Arabian Stud
Another thought,
Most experenced riders, like myself, Ken, Tommy,etc, train and condition our own horses, for several reasons, {1} it gets us in shape,,{2} you develop a repor or friendship with your horse and you learn to read your horses body laungage, thus avoid injury or pushing your horse beyond its abilitys, When you condition for endurence, CTR, or even LD rideing, you put many hours in the saddle and during that time, you and the horse become quite a team,!
Frankly,
i couldnt see, sending one of my horses to someone else to train, and then I just show up at the race to ride it! Again, not trying to be negitive here, but just doesnt seem logical, and how is the rider supposed to condition? on another horse?

Just a suggestion,
IF the PS, is truly interested in promoting the SE as a performance horse and itself, then they should sponser the Ride, or even a few rides, and maybe pffer some awards or incentives for the small breeder or even large to compete, verses sponsering one horse and rider that may or maynot win, do well, or even finish the race, I know that sauntioned races by the AERC, doesnt not except or allow CASH prizes, But there could be other incentives and support, that would not only promote the SE, but promote the PS for being involved!
And there are several races that are alittle less dangerous such as,,,, The Santa FE race, Leather Wood, Edgemont, Old Dominion ,, and of couse the EE, but several of these races on the east coast are quite challenging!
This idea of the PS may be a good idea, but i doubt if any experenced rider will send a horse off to train, when in essence, if the horse and rider are experanced, its already trained,

But, i admit, it is a start, and a step in the right direction!

Mike
Heirloom Arabian Stud
Nadj al Nur
That was exactly my point too Mike. In my opinion, the only way their plan would have value would be for someone like myself who MAY have a very good horse but is NOT able to do such a ride. I think that whoever rides such a horse MUST train with the horse.
Even tho there are no cash prizes allowed, something like a new trailer for a winning SE would surely be a great incentive. If small groups can give away saddles and more for such things as poker rides, as we do in this area, surely something like that could be arranged by the PS. My opinion.
Cathy
arabrider57
Greetings all:

It looks like the WHY NOT state of mind is slowly coming into being.

As someone just getting started in all this here is my humble opinion.

I must say I am excited for the prospect of more SE's in endurance. I am by no means the experienced rider/trainer like Mike or Ken but I agree with the need for committment. We have been working with our boy now for 2 years and just now got him through his first 25 miler in October.

What we have found this past year is that many AERC rides welcome newcomers but are VERY WARY of stallions. I cannot blame them and I understand the Biltmore ride has banned stallions from competetion in 08 (so that is one we cannot go to. ) AHA like the PS also seems to be piggy backing on AERC rides for their competitive program, so the next few years should be interesting. It takes a lot of effort to get any horse ready and if you work for a living you have to make the time - but it is not easy. We are looking to enter 5 or six AERC events in 08 and would like to go to the EE if finances allow. It would take a lot more to get any horse ready for the Tevis - that just boggles my mind. the selection process for a horse and how it has been conditioned prior to the ride, incresing stress load on tendons, P and R recovery rates etc all are parts of success. Friends I have in AERC that are successful all work off a five year plan for stress training and endurance. This is no horse show.

We have a riding plan for 08 that we can live with and endurance is a big part of it we just make sure our horse is ready for each step of the process. This is one aspect that some do not consider, it can be frustrating at times but the horses mind is as important as his/her ability. Sending my horse to someone else to work would not be high on my list, been there done that and got a nut back. Took 2 years to get his head screwed back on straight.

I just hope the new competitors this will bring in to compete at this level will be as thoughtful of the rest of the AERC riders as we thave tried to be. One nut case stallion (se or not) can create havoc on what should be a wonderful ride for everyone. Nukes first 25 miles made him a different horse and he loves his job now, Marie rode him for about 10-15 miles on christmas eve and I have been riding him as well on the many local trails. It takes a lot of teamwork to get any horse ready for endurance and you do have to form the bond of trust with your horse and rider

It does take a team, we have a rider we selected for endurance (when she is able to work us in) a trainer for ground and dressage ring work and then the basic trail work we do with him. My goal for 08 is to be as thin as Ken Keele and ride like Mike and his boy here on the east coast. biggrin.gif sounds like a resolution ,huh.

I would like to see more cooperation among the farms and SE ownership on this (sponsorships or support) and feel any exposure of our horses actually Doing something challanging will help everyone.

I applaud the PS for stepping up and wish thier horse and rider the best of luck. It takes a lot of dedication to make any plan work and for what it is worth I also agree that this PS concept it is a good staring point but is a positive "work in progress"

have a great new year all.

Mark
Windward Farm
Echo1
QUOTE (KHA`LILAH @ Dec 28 2007, 11:25 AM)
Returning the Arabian to the desert is an art, focus on fine. 
The important part of a leader's job is preparing others for what lies ahead, whether in the concrete terms of an actual scenario or the more conceptual terms of a vision.
In 2007 I was reminded of the power of one voice, an Arab racing society accepted dislodgement, when its finances changed. Determination won. Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
The SE has hundreds of members “free” to support the Tevis Cup.
Why is a question, Not a state of being!
Why Not…….
*


Beautifully stated Kha'lilah. To me the Arabian horse is a 'grace'. And I agree.

Why not??
1rider
wow this kind of got me hot under the collar. I would Have appreciated it 10+ years ago if the se breeders in this country would have brought there best forward for me to chose from. travelling this wonderful country and the world looking for that horses has been a major under taking in my life. Then picking a dozen +_ mares to produce this se horse. What i am saying is that its great to promote the se and thanks to the TPS for trying to help but its not done this way. The TPS needs to read this post step back get the right help and go from there. To start to day and have a horse ready for tevis 08 will be tough, a few could do it most not. 09 OK. then what placing would you want this horse to finish that might be another year. All this without any accidents, sports injuries, trailer injuries etc... Back to the horses, where was he raised makes a big difference. So many things to look at and yes thousands of dollars. shipping alone right now could wreck a budget. Are there any sponsors out there? Ken Ps thanks Cathy for you comment and Mike for your good ideas.
1rider
After more reading it might be better for the TPS to pick Se teams from the EE endurance rider or from a point system on how well your Se is doing and sponsor those teams from there. that would help be a little fairer. If Hiedi wants a SE to do this then why doesnt she call ranches, go look at horses and purchase one from a breeder who has worked hard to breed a good horse or is TPS picking her and wants us (breeders) to field the horses for the greater good. Ken
1rider
Oh and Crocketts done great on his horses they should start with him. Hope his horses having Rabanna in them (not all) didnt interfer with TPS going to him. Ken
1rider
Hansi, the 07 tevis winner has done well in a lot of different terrain, and the Reynolds train for the speed of the FEI rides. Where yes some up here train mostly for these mountain rides. Ken
1rider
Hello again, can someone tell me after i track a topic how do i find the topics that im tracking? looked in my controls and found nothing to retrieve this. Ken
Nadj al Nur
Hi Ken. All the tracker does is to send you an email letting you know that someone has replied to the topic that you are interested in if you don't happen to be on the forum at the time and want to know what's happening.Ya still gotta go lookin' fer it, LOL
Cathy
Mike
It seems to me that starting at the top from scratch with only months to prepare isn't exactly the best or most sensible way to proceed smile.gif Its rather like saying the olympics are coming up this year does anyone have an unbroken SE that they think might be able to showjump and thus take part smile.gif As has been pointed out, wishful thinking isn't easily translated into successful participation smile.gif

Mike
An American Breeder
I agree and thought many of these thoughts myself reading the annoucement but did keep quiet.

Like in I have a 6 year old mare, err 7 as of yesterday morning, that could probably do it but as stated above would take 2 years to get her ready!
larapintavian
QUOTE (1rider @ Jan 2 2008, 05:12 AM)
After more reading it might be better for the TPS to pick Se teams from the  EE endurance rider or from a point system on how well your Se is doing and sponsor those teams from there.   Ken
*


Much better idea than what's being offered. It's been years since I rode endurance or even CTR (had my share of successes in each), but what TPS is offering sounds almost like a joke, or at the least not very knowledgeable about the nature of the sport OR the specific competition, and certainly NOT the best way to proceed with any credibility.

They might do much better to look into the selection trial process for selecting members (horse/rider pairs) in the various USET disciplines. My daughter's Eventing instructor was a USET rider .... vetran of Pan Am Games (team Capt. and double Gold Medals), WEG, and Olympics, and later an Eventing SELECTOR for the Olympics. We learned a great deal about the selection processes from him. USET NEVER goes with selecting a single horse, much less an untried one to be started for a specific competition.... they don't select a single rider, no matter how accomplished he/she might be, on an unknown horse either. They always select from those horses already started in training (those who already have some competition record) .... horse/rider COMBINATIONS. Simply selecting and designating a rider, and THEN additing a horse that is untried and designating it as "the ONE" is a recipe for disaster .... one couldn't even insure that the 'selected' rider and the horse would be a 'match' for each other. Bad way to start out.

TPS should be commended for wanting to get involved, but as with SO many ideas coming from people who are NOT experienced in the sporthorse world, their ignorance is blatantly showing. They need to actually listen to those with experience in order to provide the very BEST chance(s) for a credible performance..... and, as the old saying goes, you don't put all your eggs in one basket.
julieM
Hi,

I agree Ken, Mike Cathy and larapintavian.
The Tevis is probably the toughest endurance ride in the world, even if to finish is to win, you still need a dammed good horse, rider/trainer and a hell of a lot of luck.

By the way Courtney Hart is back in the US and I think that his opinion/evaluation of a horse for endurance is usually a good one.

Juliem
larapintavian
Just a couple more observations and I'll be quiet.

Selected USET riders also usually have more than one horse prepared at competition level. Often a rider's horse selected for a specific competition is not chosen until just before the deadline for entry (chosen from that particular riderr's 'string', of course). Too many things can happen in training, even in dressage, to suddenly take an individual horse out of competition.

One more example .... though on a much more humble level. My sister has done Endurance and CTR for the last 40 years, and 4 of her children grew up doing distance. Their competitions have been somewhat limited each year because of finances and the necessity of holding full time jobs, plus numbers of riders involved and wanting to compete at the same time. Over the years they've built up considerable experience with competing numerous horses, each going out several times each season and being successful into their upper teens and twenties. They've always had to develop their own too.

Anyway, my neice (who as a young adult has competed LD, 50s and 100s)obtained a nice SE gelding as a yearling. He has shown, in every way possible, an aptitude for Endurance. He has excellent conformation, wonderful free long gaits, the body structure and muscling of a distance horse, a wonderful bold, confident attitude while being very willing to take 'instruction' and work in concert with his rider. He's also a big boy, sticking at an even 16.0.

This gelding has been started slowly and properly. His LD rides showed great promise for a wonderful career. However, a few weeks ago, my sister told me they might end up sending this athletic SE to us to see if he could go the Eventing route. The reason? During his two 50 milers this season, he showed a tendancy to be unable to cool sufficiently quickly to make him higly competitive .... not enough to endager him, but still a very real concern as to his future as an Endurance mount. This next year they'll continue to take it 'easy' with him and try to acertain the best method(s) of getting his body temp down more quickly. He's too superb and athlete to just give up on, but this emerging metabolic issue, if not solved, may keep him out of the very sport he showed such an apptitude for, and it could also keep him from Eventing at the upper levels too. Only time, and close human observation and attention during his actual competitions will give them the answers on how, or even whether to proceed as his 'problem' does not show up during conditioning rides.

That's just one example of what can happen with even the most promising of individuals .... there are just too many variables that enter the 'equation" to simply select one rider/horse pair .... even when that pair IS proven. Happens all the time in the USET, even at the highest levels ... that's why they have 'backups'. These are horses and humans, not machines (and even machines have spare parts along with them, lol).
HLM
Dear Sharon and all

I so much agree with you.It takes years to train for any top level stresss sport.
I dont know either how the PS came up with the sugestion to send a horse out for training etc to compete in 08 or 09, unless it is already an accomplished horse.
Martha Lucas and col.Tommy Ticktin competed for some years at the EE endurance races, the 25 and 50 milers, successfully could advise more.I wonder if the PS consulted with either one.

I understand that the entries also have to win a few other rides before that.
Ken Keele would know more and better.

the 100miler at Dubai under seven hours, is also not for the faint hearted rider or horse.The Arabs have an advantage, they train there all year round. But also we have desert lands, like the Mohawi, etc.Experience of the riders is most certainly
the answer and knowing the horse one rides. and having one in reserve.

When the decision was made by the PS I wonder who was present to advice.
As said before, it is a good start of the PS to think of it, and possibly they accept some help and advice from more experts in this regards.

A good start would also be if the PS induces the halter stallions off age
to compete in these PS endurance races.Surely M Byat would have some, or?
May be even Laheeb could start in the easy 25 miler. that for sure would be a lovely sight. If this would have been at my time, I guarantee you everyone of our breeding studs would be in these races, and I would have riders trained so that more than one could enter.I feel certain all larger farms could do this too.Although only one can win, all other finishing and coming home sound are also winners.
At least we get a rating on them, speed, heartbeats, recovering.

Here goes wishing and dreaming, he.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
HLM
Dear Ken

Just mentione here what you are looking for and someone will help you.

Hansi biggrin.gif
larapintavian
QUOTE (1rider @ Jan 2 2008, 05:01 AM)
.........So many things to look at and yes  thousands of dollars.  shipping alone right now could wreck a budget.  Are there any sponsors out there? .....
*



QUOTE (HLM @ Jan 2 2008, 03:44 PM)
Dear Ken

Just mentione here what you are looking for and someone will help you.

Hansi biggrin.gif
*


Sponsorships are a MAJOR problem in most upper level horse sports. Wish it was as simple as just asking. In the last few years, we've found ourselves having to SELL our most advanced, promising, horses in order to get them into the hands of those who had the financial means to take them further (one has now done FEI Eventing competitions, the other, also an upper level Eventer, went to an Arab show home, and in only 2 show seasons has the +/ , 4 Nat. TTs, 8 Reg. Ch., etc). We're certainly not alone.

There is a very informative thread over on the COTH (Chronicle of the Horse) sporting forums addressing the problems in attaining sponsorships. It starts out with the question of attaing the appropriate quality horses, but soon shifts to the MUCH MORE PREVENT problem of finanacially supporting competing that horse. Finding appropriate, talented horses seems to be much less of a problem than finding the $$ to compete them. Often a breeder can supply an outstanding horse, but they, too, may not be financially able to support that horse's development and career. So, even if you have BOTH outstanding horse and rider, it's still a long hard road to actually get them to the top and keep them there.

While this thread is in the Eventing Forum (rather than the Endurance Forum), it does contain a lot of eye-opening information both on people who HAVE the ability AND the horses yet are not supported (including the accounts of riders who have had to let the horses go .... after they've done ALL the training, conditioning, etc., ..... to 'name' established riders so that the horse could have the financial backing to continue it's career.

There is also some VERY valuable info on what it 'takes' to market a horse/rider combination to potential sponsors .... what do the sponsors expect, etc., and even how to do a strong presentation without appearing 'pushy' and demanding.

Tilte is: The sponsorship dilemma for aspiring riders
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=127565

The thread is now 5 pages and 99 posts long, but well worth the reading in it's entirety. (The last page includes an account from the rider who brought the now famous eventing pony, 'Teddy', to the top levels, only to have to give him up to a better established Olympian to be able to further his international career.) Unfortunately, it also brings to light the fact that one really needs marketing experience specifically in obtaining sponsorships or help from someone who does. It's also very difficult for a rider to be able to do all the sponsorship search and attending sponsors events etc., plus putting in the training time ..... especially if that rider must also hold an outside job to make a living. Just one reason why it's not always the best riders who make it to the top.
Bay Area Arabians
The PS, IMO, cannot even promote properly the few horses (we could count them on one hand) that went to Nationals and competed.

They could not even market properly those horses...
nor could they sponsor them...
these horses the owners spent a lot of TIME and MONEY in their training, etc.

The people "Manning" the booth at Nationals DID NOT even know how the SE's had placed... and there were only 3 of us there... They are so far removed from what is happening it is like they are locked in an Ivory tower... (Throw stones at me...now!)... but SOMEONE has to speak the truth... I don't have the funds to Show Sigar this year... and he is PROVEN. Do you think people are jumping at the chance to sponsor him or to even lease him? No. Talk is so cheap people.... and this notion that they have to sponsor an unproven horse... let alone only one when olympians - like Hansi said- take 2-3 horses... they have a string... of course the PS would not take the time to really look into this- like they would not take the time to even come and LOOK at my horse while at Nationals.... IT IS A JOKE.

We need a new marketing director at the PS. They should have had a nicer booth... they should have maps to all the 3 SE horses at Nationals or at a show so people can go by and look at them to promote the breed.... maybe even have a demonstration at the show of the SE's "doing their thing"... The bottom line is that the Pyramid Society is not our saviour and until the boat chages captians and gets some new blood in there to "spice things up" we will not see prosperity for our strain and the credit given to it that it deserves...

So I think it is Bull that they would randomly chose to sponsor a horse... that they don't even know if it can win or has the talent... when there are horses out there right NOW that are doing it...

Here's my idea that will promote the SE to the Arab community:

1. Sponsor every SE. The Pyramid society HAS money and...Let's face it... we don't get out there and promote our own strain... they stay in our backyards... then we complain that the market for SE's is not that good... well, people... there are only a handful of us that are actively promoting the breed under saddle... this will get more people riding or BRING new blood into our market and increase our target demographics...

2. For every Class A show that a SE competes in the payout would be the following:
Champion (over 3 horses in the class): $25
Reserve Champion (Over 4 horses in the class): $15
1st place (3-5 horses in the class): $15
1st place (6-15 horses in the class): $20
1st place (16+ horses in the class): $25
2nd Place (3-5 horses in the class): $10
2nd place (6-15): $15
2nd place (16+): $20
3rd place (5+): $10
4th Place (6+): $10
5th Place (7+) $10

3. I think that this would be MORE advantageous for the promotion of the SE. They could show that they pay out for the Class A and National shows... heck- I might even become a member if they actually start promoting the breed on a larger level than just one show...

4. The $5000 award that they have going is fine and dandy, but why make people pay for something that the Society could easily afford to do themselves...

Anyway, I am getting off my soapbox... the PS could look into their own talented pool of horses already in training and equally share the $$$... and not put all of their eggs into one basket... bad idea IMO.
Bay Area Arabians
QUOTE (Heirloom Arabian Stud @ Dec 28 2007, 05:35 PM)
Just a suggestion,
IF the PS, is truly interested in promoting the SE as a performance horse and itself, then they should sponser the Ride, or even a few rides, and maybe pffer some awards or incentives for the small breeder or even large to compete, verses  sponsering one horse and rider that may or maynot win, do well, or even finish the race, I know that sauntioned races by the AERC, doesnt not except or allow CASH prizes, But there could be other incentives and support, that would not only promote the SE, but promote the PS for being involved!
And there are several races that are alittle less dangerous such as,,,, The Santa FE race, Leather Wood, Edgemont, Old Dominion ,, and of couse the EE, but several of these races on the east coast are quite challenging!
This idea of the PS may be a good idea, but i doubt if any experenced rider will send a horse off to train, when in essence, if the horse and rider are experanced, its already trained,

But, i admit, it is a start, and a step in the right direction!

Mike
Heirloom Arabian Stud
*


I agree, Mike. Let them sponsor a ride... or pay for the entries of all SE's entering in the ride... heck, pay for all of their shipping as well...
but to pay for training, etc. on one horse is to put all of their eggs in one basket and the horse might not even pass the first vet.... is insane and a very BAD investment...

Just another example of the PS not really thinking rationally... they need to actually confer with riders and trainers, b/c if they had done this they would have seen some of the flaws in this...
Bay Area Arabians
QUOTE (2mntn @ Dec 27 2007, 07:44 PM)
Cathy - not just "no", but hell no! 

My SE candidates are not old enough yet and if they were, I sure ain't about to send them off into the hands of the unknown.  Nothing against this person, might be the best there is, but!

Why don't they just offer a monster cash reward, sign up SE riders/horses for PS bragging rights, commericals, etc?

Ray
*


Ray,

Again, words of wisdom come forth from your mouth.
YES. Cash rewards sound great! Just offer $10K to the winner....
then they might get 25 SE's competing and doing well...
not just one that is with a trainer? who, in their right mind, would send a horse away that they already have in training.... to someone that they do not know?
Make it a free for all and put out an award. great idea.

put on out there for all of the big shows...
Scottsdale, Nationals (US and Canada), Region Shows, etc...
lynnbrook
You would think that the PS would have a booth at the Region 14 show since it is at the KY Horse Park. This year there were at least 3 SE's competing at the show. And those three all won awards. Res Champ in JTH mares, Top 5 Open mares and Top Five two old colts. I think there was at least one or two other SE's there showing as well.
Heirloom Arabian Stud
I honestly think, the PS hasnt done there homework on this, or maybe alittle POLITICS involved, If it costs, 10,000 to 15.000 to get a horse and rider ready to ride the tevis, plus shipping, a crew,, food, vets, etc,,etc, thats quite a risk, As someone said, horse might not make it through the first P&R, and what an embaressment that would be, Just think, of the incentives that kind of money would offer as help to Se owners who just need alittle push to get out there and ride, I think the PS needs to help the SE and not just promote itself, after all, i thought thats what it was founded for?

As already mentioned, funding to compete is always hard, Like myself, have several horses , but cant afford to really get out there and compete and race, and many people face this problem, And sponserships,, forget it,, I tried for over a year to put a team togeather of SE,s for the Santa Fe race, The entry fee and transport alone scared everyone away! when i first asked, lots and lots of people wanted to join, but as soon as they found out I wasnt paying all the expences, well, that stopped that,, Like someone said "talk is cheap"

If, we truly want to promote the SE as a performance horse, and disprove the myth, The larger farms, with the money are gonna have to step up to the plate and help, the small breeders that probably have good horses, cant do it, and wont do it!!! SO, far, we are just sitting on our hands, and complaining, and passing the blame off!
I will add, that endurance and CTR is on the upswing in the US and gaining ground every year! This is not only a financial investment, but really an investment to the future reputation and survival of the SE horse,

This really is a sad shame, many of us know the Se can excell and prove themselves, yet, the major population doesnt agree,
I doubt, that the PS can take one horse and sponser it, and EVEN if it wins, one horse wont prove a thing to the public, This is something that must be done on a large scale, and many Se,s involved, A perfect example is one of my first posts. I have a SE that has been raced and rode for thousands of miles,,, Has it made a differance>? Does anyone care? NOPE, !! If we are ever gonna get the SE back to where its admired and sought after, its gonna take alot of work and alot of patience and staying power, cant grow a garden and expect a crop, without lots of work in between planting and harvest!

Mike
julieM
Hello Hansi,

I hear what you are saying and agree, but I have to say that over the last ten years far too many horses have been shipped to the Arabe States with the majority never managing to even finish a ride before they disapear into oblivion. In general these horses have won I -2 rides before being sold (rides which in many cases they have been prepared for). Its a good thing for the arabian horse that this market has now sunk, few horses are being sold and normal prices are being paid.( When I say normal prices that is normal prices for sport horses).
Sorry If I seem to be changing the subject it is not intentional, but too many horses are disappearing and too many things that are happening with this sport are just to good to be true.
Because some people want this sport to become a " formule one" style Olympic sport, others dont.

Whoever the trainer or rider, horse owners should take care and realy check out the person involved. Can you realy be sure that say after the first 3 months of training the people who are being paid will tell you if they dont think that your horse is a hundred miler? I would like to think that they would, but can you realy be sure.

Just in any equine sport it is horses for courses or distances. 100 milers need to be chosen carefully,
Simply because of the enthusiasm and generous nature of the arabian horse.

Juliem
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.