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An American Breeder
In light of Governor Otter unveiling his "animal locator program": On radio news a Colorado girl and her prize Brahma bull were disqualified from 4-H placement because she did not "chip" her animal with an RFID tag and register her parents' "premises" with the state department of agriculture.

Throughout the National Animal ID System Users Guide, land is referred to as "premises." On June 8,2007, Secretary of Agriculture, Bruce Knight, at the World Pork Expo in Des Moines, is quoted as saying, "we have to live by the same international rules we are expecting other people to do."

These international rules include the International Criminal Court Act, 2002, which states that a "premise," defined by Webster as a "lease" or "conveyance," has no protection under the Constitution. If you register your home as a "premise," it will no longer be your property under the 4th Amendment. NAIS has NOTHING to do with food safety and EVERYTHING to do with tracking and controlling small local producers. That an organization for kids would be encouraging a child to register her parents' property is appalling.

According to Otter, the Idaho Cattle Assn, Dairymen Assn, Horse Council, Sheep Commission and Pork Producers are on board with this. Write these associations, withdraw from membership, do whatever you must do to insist they take a different position.

If your children are in 4-H, tell them they have NO right to register your property with the state under any condition. If private property rights are extinguished, we lose.
Anne Chamberlain, 208-448-2506*smile.gif
Dave
F**k internatiional law! We live under the US Constitution.

Dave

QUOTE (An American Breeder @ Jan 28 2008, 08:33 PM)
In light of Governor Otter unveiling his "animal locator program":  On radio news a Colorado girl and her prize Brahma bull were disqualified from 4-H placement because she did not "chip" her animal with an RFID tag and register her parents' "premises" with the state department of agriculture.

  Throughout the National Animal ID System Users Guide, land is referred to as "premises."  On June 8,2007, Secretary of Agriculture, Bruce Knight, at the World Pork Expo in Des Moines, is quoted as saying, "we have to live by the same international rules we are expecting other people to do."

  These international rules include the International Criminal Court Act, 2002, which states that a "premise," defined by Webster as a "lease" or "conveyance,"  has no protection under the Constitution. If you register your home as a "premise," it will no longer be your property under the 4th Amendment.  NAIS has NOTHING to do with food safety and EVERYTHING to do with tracking and controlling small local producers. That an organization for kids would be encouraging a child to register her parents' property is appalling. 

According to Otter, the Idaho Cattle Assn, Dairymen Assn, Horse Council, Sheep Commission and Pork Producers are on board with this.  Write these associations, withdraw from membership, do whatever you must do to insist they take a different position.

    If your children are in 4-H, tell them they have NO right to register your property with the state under any condition. If private property rights are extinguished, we lose.
Anne Chamberlain, 208-448-2506*smile.gif
*
An American Breeder
There is a rumor that PAT/the US Registry with AHA is quietly involuntarily signing up everyone who has ever registered a purebred/partbred into NAIS and that to register a foal after March of this year you will be required to "register your premise" or be denied the registration.

And NO when you register your premise "voluntarily or involuntarily" you give UP ALL your US Constitution Rights.

Go Read that BAST**D document!!!! Get into pages 25 to about 35!!!!
fhl_stables
I stand with you...... It's terrony (sp) at it's best. It shows the US is no longer a free country.

NAIS will be the end of America as we've known it. Someone said it good... US is becoming more controlled than the communist countries.
An American Breeder
In my opinion, the beaurocrats and our government views the citizens of the USA as the enemy. We as citizens can move against terrorists but how do we move against these beaurocrats and our own government destroying the US Constitution?

Better go read what is in that he**-Hole document!!!!!!!!
Chiron
Well, I don't generally see a conspiracy at every turn. but......The return of stallion reports, no big deal, I personally thought they never should have done away with them in the first place.....PAT/AHA getting over themselves & making nice with WAHO, hey this is a good thing right??? RIGHT??? unsure.gif
So now "they" know every mare bred, there is only one registry & they are more than likely in bed with NAIS . ph34r.gif
In, at least, the first draft of the NAIS these are not just microchips they are transponder chips: provided by a foriegn company under contract to NAIS a department of Homeland Security (that name alone gives me the willies). Transponder chips allow tracking of the animal anywhere in the world. Are we next??? Already there has been talk of implants for Alzhieimers patients....oh, yes & of course, children to prevent abduction. What price are we willing to pay for "Security"??? mad.gif
Dave
I went to AHA's website and looked under registration and didn't see anything about NAIS. I'll read it later the doc later. AHA better not require compliance with this BS. I suspect that if they don't go along with it, their tax exempt status could be in trouble or they may have WAHO problems again. If this comes up, I'm certain that the membership will be overwhelmingly against it.

Dave
Donna
This Country has been living in fear since Terrorist became the Biggest word used today and this is what we get for it..I agree with loseing our freedom because of the fear that has been brainwashed into the people here..Is crazyness at its best...I think I will just back off of breeding for this year as I am not willing to put my home up as a premisses under Goverment control..Of course all of the big cattle ranchers, Dairy farms, etc, are exempt from the chipping...It is , as someone mentioned, tyranny at its worst and isn't that what we are supose to be fighting??
larapintavian
QUOTE (Donna @ Jan 28 2008, 10:58 PM)
.........Of course all of the big cattle ranchers, Dairy farms, etc, are exempt from the chipping...


They're not totally exempt, but they ARE able to have a "GROUP ID". Now, who's going to keep tabs on each 'group' of similar animals. beloning to these large producers, to be certain that none of them are changed out????? How do you assure that a large flock of, say, white turkeys are ALL the very same birds that were issued the GROUP ID number?? Or, for that matter, that all the Black Angus cattle in a 'group' remain the exact same animals. or a flock of sheep?
Dave
I googled NAIS. This thing is voluntary according to the website both for premisis registration and animal tracking. Supposedly NAIS is for disease control. However, I think I'll decline. I have enough comlexity and paperwork. I don't need anymore.

Dave
larapintavian
Yes, currently it is voluntary at the FEDERAL level. BUT .... the USDA is coming in 'through the back door', through the states. Several states have already made it mandatory.

Additional info from another site:

The USDA published its Business Plan in December of last year. You can download the Plan at http://farmandranchfreedom.org/content/Government-documents. The Plan sets aggressive targets for implementation of NAIS. One of the strategies for achieving those goals is "harmonization" among various systems that already use individual identification. Harmonization involves changing the existing programs so they use the NAIS-compliant Animal Identification Numbers (AIN's). (Plan, pp.28-29).

As part of its harmonization strategy, USDA lists having breed registries begin using NAIS AIN's in March 2008, less than two months from now. (Plan, p.52). The AIN is a 15-digit internationally unique identification number. It starts with "840" which identifies the animal as coming from the US. (Plan, p.30). In order to get an AIN under NAIS, you have to register your property ("premises registration" under the NAIS plan). The legal effect of this registration is unknown, because there has been nothing like it before - permanent federal registration of citizens' property, linked to an issue (animal ownership) that carries potential liabilities.

INOW, the USDA is targeting breed registries to obtain info.
Chiron
So, this year no one breeds their mares, or doesn't register the foals born this year.......but, what happens the following years when the feed stores & hay dealers can't sell unless you have a Premises number??? This already happened in one of the Southern drought states (I'm sorry don't remember which one) To purchase the hay trucked in from out of state you had to have a Premises number. mad.gif
The PETA people are well on the way to thier goal of NO ANIMAL OWNERSHIP ph34r.gif
Kimberli Nelson
I wrote to the AHA asking them several questions. Here is the email and the response.

-----Original Message-----
From: hadbans@zeeranch.com [mailto:hadbans@zeeranch.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 7:40 AM
To: info
Subject: Other

Name: Kimberli Nelson
Email: hadbans@zeeranch.com
Phone:
Member ID: 2761393 & 3615887
Message: Dear Sirs,
I read your web site and found what appears to be a
pro-NAIS stand from the AHA. Please answer the following questions.

1. Do you plan to require members to use the USDA's 15-digit Animal
Identification Number (AIN) to enter or maintain animals in your registry?

2. Do you plan to require members to use the State's or USDA's premises
registration system in order to obtain a breed registration number?

3. Can you please confirm the registry's intentions in writing?

If you plan to go along with NAIS, I will not register any more horses. I
will not stop breeding, they will simply be un-registered.

The State of Arizona has passed a law stopping mandatory NAIS registration,
thank God. I will not be forced to participate in NAIS by AHA.

I look forward to your response.

Regards, Kimberli Nelson




Hello Kimberli,

Your email regarding your concerns/questions regarding NAIS has been
forwarded to me. I am a member of the Equine Species Working Group (ESWG).
A website has been established by the ESWG to provide accurate information
regarding NAIS and the group's recommendations. We have received several
inquiries regarding the topics you raise. AHA does not plan to require
animal or premise identification in order to register, transfer the ownership
or conduct any registration related business. Several breed registries are
represented within ESWG and I am not aware of any registry that will be
requiring this information.

Please call me at 303-475-9992, if you have additional questions or would
like to discuss this further.

Kind regards,

Debbie Fuentes
Registrar and Senior Director of Customer Service
Arabian Horse Association
Debbie.Fuentes@ArabianHorses.org
Chiron
smile.gif One can olny hope smile.gif
On another board several people who have called/written the AHA are saying that they have been put off, told that the "offical" position will "soon" be posted on the AHA website.
Didn't sound real good to me unsure.gif
ShaeMcC
Regardless of what the AHA may state now, there are two goals for NAIS on a federal level that concern me greatly. The first is pressuring the breed registries to force NAIS on any person or persons seeking to register, or possibly even keep the registration of horses registered in the past. In other words, if you have an Arabian horse you wish to keep registered as such, AHA may very well make this a requirement along with other breed registries. Its a maneuver to get NAIS in the door. Refusal would mean that small breeders and even single-horse owners could face consequences such as not being allowed to participate in breed shows and activities, as well as no longer be able to register foals.

The second goal of NAIS within a close timeline is to have all "premises" registered by January 2009. They are going to be turning up the heat on this thing to achieve such a lofty goal in such a short time. Of course, they'll never have "all" premises registered - but they will get to us through various means. Agricultural purchases, feed/hay, tax-exempt status, any public equestrian activity, public lands usage, hauling rigs (in order to keep your trailer legal), and any required testing that falls under the State Veterinarian, such as obtaining a negative Coggins. Vets could have their licenses threatened as well.

It may sound like an exaggeration, and it won't happen overnight. Give them a few years to make it too difficult to be without a NAIS number on your land and your horses/livestock. They just turn on the pressure until we give in. A proven technique time and again. Plus, many horse-owners are completely unaware of NAIS, even though we've been fighting it since 2002.

There would be good reason to be alarmed at this point. wacko.gif

*Really* hoping I'm just being paranoid here,
Shannon
An American Breeder
One poster on another forum said she has been to the ACLU and they are willing to come in and fight. I am trying to contact her to see if this can be a nationwide class action lawsuit.

Sadly, no I do not think you are paranoid.
larapintavian
QUOTE (An American Breeder @ Jan 28 2008, 08:33 PM)
..........On radio news a Colorado girl and her prize Brahma bull were disqualified from 4-H placement because she did not "chip" her animal with an RFID tag and register her parents' "premises" with the state department of agriculture.........

........If your children are in 4-H, tell them they have NO right to register your property with the state under any condition........



I heard that radio news broadcast too.

Perhaps the most disgusting way NAIS is "sneaking in the back door" is through the youth organizations, specifically 4H and FFA. These kids are being literally brainwashed PLUS many have already UNKNOWINGLY registered their parents' premisis when filling out forms for these two organizations. PLUS, in many areas other than Colorado, these kids will also be prohibited (or already are) from exhibiting their project animals if they do not comply with the premisis registration.

Veterinarians in most states have already been told that they must 'eventually' provide premisis info on every animal they treat. The situation with being able to buy trucked in hay (in certain drought areas) ONLY with premisis registration on file is also true.

IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING FOLKS! WAKE UP!!!!!

Many people on other forums have also expressed concern about the agricultural census they are receiving (some don't even reside on agricultural property ... they board their horse). It seems that the info requested (I haven't gotten one yet) gets VERY deep and personal. People who have filled these out in the past say that the info asked for THIS YEAR is much more indepth and invasive than in the past.

Recipients of the agricultural census are also instructed that they are required 'by law' to fill out the census, that non compliance carries a substantial fine, and that falsifying information carries a very stiff penalty indeed. Most people are simply ignoring it and throwing it away as the 'ag. census' was NOT sent by registered mail .... no way to prove that they ever received it.

One person responded that they had filled out and returned the the ag. census .... their answer to the questions was "none of your business". In their mind, that consitutes responding to the questions while definitely not providing any 'false' information. They are currently waiting to see what the reply will be.....and they have hired a lawyer.
HLM
Dear All
We never heard of it either, nor have we been approached. We did get a notice to fill out certain agri details, but I dont think that is related to NAIS.

All this sounds worse than under Stalin and Hitler, as I remember. I thought this was a free democratic country. We then had to walk around with our passport in our purse.

If all this is true and comes to pass, have they ever thought of how this will hurt agriculture? If people stop breeding animals for consumption, etc for fear of losing their land/home, what are we going to eat? Become vegetarians? did it ever ocur to them that without agriculture we all starve to death? We can live without gasoline, but not without food, nor can the animals. Mind you if one has a mental retard as a leader, in what ever position, what can we expect eh?

what you all are saying sounds very serious to me and frightening. What can we all to do counter act? I am reading AHA's statement and hope they stand firm.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Cheryl L
I think it is ironic that the Agriculture Census, is being sent to minors that do not own agricultural property or any property for that manner. The one thing they have in common, is they have a horse registered in their name. I live in the city and received this "census" and called the phone number. They asked me several questions, to which I answered NO and I was done.
This is happening with multiple breed owners, they are being sent multiple census'.
So, who are they getting their lists from? The breed registeries or USEF. Are our names being sold to the government or just flat out given to them.
Cheryl
2mntn
Hello AAB (Liz)

You posted: "According to Otter, the Idaho Cattle Assn, Dairymen Assn, Horse Council, Sheep Commission and Pork Producers are on board with this."

Butch Otter and all the groups you mentioned are right-leaning Republican conservatives. The NAIS thing, as is being described here, is NOT something that I can see as being supported by Otter, nor these groups. UNLESS there is something to this that is not coming out. Is this plan, unveiled by Otter, available on the web? I can't seem to find anything on Otter's statement in the public domain.

Thanks!
Ray
Dave
Hansi,

I think you're exaggerating about Stalin and Hitler. However, I agree with the consensus on this thread. NAIS must be stopped.

Some of you may remember the last census. There was a long form and a short form. I got the long form and I answered only the question about how many people lived in my condo. That met the constitutional requriement of enumeration. I got a call from a census worker and I refused to provide any additional info. Nothing ever happened to me.

At my old job, we got surveys from the commerce dept all the time. I always filed them late or not at all. There was all sorts of crap about a repsonse being required by law. When they called me, I told them I had to take care of the IRS first. Nothing ever happened to me or my company for late or non-filings.

NAIS is getting very much out of control if it impacts 4-H kids. If it keeps going, it will impact shows, endurance rides, etc. We may be able to stop it if we collectively tell the government to F**KOFF or we may have to get congress to put the heat on the USDA.

Dave
jsimicek
http://www.texasanimalhealthcommissionwatc...m/article11.htm

A good source of information on NAIS with links to the USDA plan so you can read it for yourselves. Also points out the Constitutional violations in it. The USDA is blackmailing the states into making this mandatory by threatening their farm subsidies and federal funding.

And Hansi the point you brought out about the people producing the food is the whole point- the large corporate farms want to drive the small farmer/ rancher out of business so that the only ones we can buy our food from are themselves. The corporate farms and the government will gain billions from this and the small producer will be unable to comply and be forced out of business. They have also figured out how much money the horse industry provides the economy and they want their piece of that pie as well. I find it very distressing from the constitutional & property rights perspective and that they feel they need to monitor horses and the horseowners through them more closly than terrorists or criminals. When they are tracking your horse with its GPS tracking chip they are also tracking you since your horse isn't leaving the property without you in most cases. Plus radio frequency chips have been proven to be unreliable and cancer causing in long lived species. We need a class action lawsuit to stop this. The fact that they would use the children in this way to force compliance is disgusting.

I have written all my representatives, senators, governor and only one person bothered to write back and say that he was against this and that was RON PAUL and he is acitvely trying to fight this. All the others just sent me some form letter telling me why we needed this to fight mad cow disease. We have to band together and fight this or they are going to ram it down our throats.

Sandy
Chiron
Dave, no disrespect, but Hansi was THERE!!
Yesterday at work I asked several of the under 35 yr set what they knew or had been taught about conditions in pre WW II Germany & Russia. Not ONE of them had a clue. Two of the gals are just out of High School & don't remember being told a thing about pre WW II Europe. I find this as scary as the NAIS.
I'm not a big fan of the ACLU but a friend is a card carring member & that well may be the way to go. I know our voice as horse owners is being ignored. mad.gif
larapintavian
QUOTE (jsimicek @ Jan 29 2008, 07:15 PM)
......... I have written all my representatives, senators, governor and only one person bothered to write back and say that he was against this and that was RON PAUL and he is acitvely trying to fight this.† All the others just sent me some form letter telling me why we needed this to fight mad cow disease.†  We have to band together and fight this or they are going to ram it down our throats.

Sandy


Thanks for the link, Sandy.

In all the threads about NAIS that I have followed on various forums, one fact seems to stand out .... Ron Paul seems to be about the only legislator willing to actively fight this.

Dave ... the AGRICULTURAL census is very different from our usual population census taken every 10 yrs. It's the AGRICULTURAL census I was referring to in a former post.
An American Breeder
Ray, how do you tell when a politician is lying? When his lips move. Or in this case his press release.

Another poster stated that when Otter sent his person to the Idaho Horse Council he was met with a huge amount of hostility. Even they know this is all about power.
Dave
I know the censuses are different and I know Hansi was there. However, the US is not a police state as under Stalin or Hitler and if we make enough noise, NAIS will go away. If we are confronted with noncompliance with NAIS, we should make it clear that it is voluntary.

I found a website, www.NoNAIS.org.

This thing does appear to be a back door power grab. I would like to see the actual text of the law, regulation or whatever especially the part that makes reference to international law.

Dave
An American Breeder
Dave, right now I am a tad bit busy with an emergency project. And, USDA has now tried to hide the documents that they started with and for the most part, what is available is only portions, not the complete document.

You think this is not Hitler/Nazi? Think again. Even worse.
HLM
NO Dave, I am not exagorating at all. Lived under it till 1950 and had to- even as a child- carry my passport, everybody had to. and there is much, much more to it.
If you have lived under communisz, then you know that nothing gets unnoticed,everything has to be reported, and if you dont, your neighbors will.You are not free, you are a "number" and have a "Number" without which you are nothing. and under Hitler you also were crutinized in everything. Both type of governments owned you.

Take care
hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Chiron
Hansi, please explain to Dave that the German people did not just wake up one morning to a "Police State" it was a gradual erosion of rights starting with small ethnic groups (think animal owners) where the majority of the populous had no vested interest (non-livestock owners). It then spread to all Germans/ the passports & increased control of every aspect of life. Of course, for the good & safety of the Fatherland.

edit to ad: those who do not learn from history are doomed to repete it.
Chiron
Here are a couple of links to sites with additional info on NAIS
www.ruralheritage.com/index.htm click on NAIS Lots of additional links there.
www.wiwffarm.com/doomsday.html

I also have printed out somewhere in this mess the original 60 some page NAIS program detailing what must be done EVERYTIME any animal ,including the horse,
is moved. & what steps are to be taken if an animal is sick or injured.---You DO NOT have the right to euthanize a fatally injured horse or even transport without permission. THEY have the right at any time (that would be day or night) to enter "your" unsure.gif property for any or NO reason. Very, very unsettling & scary stuff coming from the Government that supposedly must follow the Constitution & Bill of Rights. ph34r.gif
HLM
Dear chiron

Nothing stargts and concludes overnight. It was 1930, a year before I was born, the world depression, the hunger and dispair, almost chaos. When Hitler came to power he promised that there will be no more hunger, no homeless or people out of work and started the autobahn project and then the Volkswagon project.He indeed cleaned "house". People were very well off. the Hitler Youth was created and all had to join at a very young age, like 6year olds and up. First it was almost like what we know here as the youth clubs. But we were indoctrinated.We were taught to report anything which was not in the rule book so to speak, even against our own parents. I never adheared to the latter. All those age 16 had to go into the
Arbeitsdienst for two years, being send to farmers, factories, etc.etc. and underwent high dizipline. there were no murders and criminals were sent to the concentration camps, which most all Germand understood to be "Work/boot camps" Arbeitslager". the truth about them came out when the war ended AND THAT IS A FACT! Except for those who were involved. We were not hungry, not until the War ended.Although being on rations, these were plenty.
Women were not allowed to wear make-up either.

When the war ended the Russians came in, conviscated everything they could,
and strict communistic rules were established and inforced. We had to learn Russian in school- I forgeto all of it- there were no stores, no hospitals, small rations and when you get through the line up, often all was gone. Great Hunger prevaled. there was no elecetricity either and eventually one hour every 24 hours.. We lived in the country, so had our own well and could exchange valuables against a loaf of bread of potatoes.We were always hungry. We had to carry our passports, all children 5 years old an up, were told what to do or not and inspected at the discretion of the Russians. A colchose was established, meaning that only one set of farm machinery was available and shared among the farmers of the villages.

Hens had to lay enough eggs to give the Government 60 pieces per year, the rest was kept, often hardly any.If you wanted to eat your chicken, you had to get permission and your ration was cut down on meat.Everything was recorded. If you owned more than your salary would afford, they wanted to know where you got the money from. Of course, there were no credit cards and nobody held a bank account, but kept what they had under the mattress..Every animals, rabbits, goat, swine were recorded and you had to advise what you did with them.
If you slaughtered any, you had to give to the government a certain portion.

Schools demanded high grades. those who failed were put back a year or more and those who did not make good grades in the Universities were at once
dismissed and hat to learn a trade. English and Russian was mandatory, French and other languages at our discretion. Mathematics,History,Geography, chemistry,Biography were of prime importance. If you had low grade in them you were dismissed. Public School entailed 8 years, no language was taught.
High shool entailed 4 years.School started at age 5. So you finished at about age 17 and went to the University, those who were accepted by the grades they had earned. Those in medical school who did not make the grades, could continue to become a pharmasist. Many a University graduate was a bit over age 20., depending on the subject one took.Most took 5-8 semesters.Then became interns, medicine, law, etc.before thy could hang up thjeir own shingles.

Parents completely corolated with the teachers, they had to. When we got a spanking at school, we got a letter to be signed by the parents, and then got another one from them. But such was also recorded, and the government knew all about you. School started at 8am and finished at 4pm. Saturdays 8-1pm.
Holidays- 6 weeks in the summer with enough homework to leave little time to enjoy. If you came back unprepared you went through a test, and if you failed, out you went (highschool and Uni) and at public school, were put a year back.

For everything you did you needed a licence, regardless if a baker or shoemaker.
three years apprenticeship and thereafter five more years for your master papers, if you made it.the government controlled the test.

As you can see "big brother" was everywhere, controlled your life and let you live like almost a prisoner. And all this started little by little at Hitlers time and continued under the russians.Tthe germans became perfectionist, overlooked nothing, lived under fear and pressure and brought up their children the same way.
Until all stopped. Teachers never beame glorified baby sitters with all liabilities and no authorities so to speak. We were taught to respect our elders,take care of them,and accomplishments. Liars and cheaters were severly punished and shamed. they became outcasts in that society.If you declared banruptcy, you were an outcast in society.So many committred suicide to avoid the shame.

I dont think we want all this in the USA or Canada. A bit of dictatorship is okay- when giving an order one is dictating- but one should be made aware of new rules/laws to either obey them or object. therefore, be guided and fight for what is right and against what is wrong.

Mind you the severe upbringing taught us oldies to survive under just about any heartship and condition.But also to appreciate the freedom we have here and the oportunities to do so much. So each one of us can do what we feel is right. But this does not mean sitting back doing nothing.

there is much, much more, and I am not the only one having gone through it, there are millions of others who have and under worse condition. Just ask them.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Cheryl L
Hansi,
Thank you so much for telling us a part of your past.
I am not really happy with the whole "agricultural census", nor the NAIS.
IF the purpose was really for the tracking of diseases and such, then why do we have to register Premises...........why is it not called property?
A while ago, there was a part of NAIS, that would have you document and report, EVERY time you moved your horse/goat/chicken/cattle/ swine off of your property, EVEN for trailriding.

Here in Michigan, there was a law passed a while ago, that every horse MUST be tested for Equine Infectious Anemia. Then it was stated that you MUST have a copy of your negative Coggins, WITH YOU each time you moved your horse off of your property. Whether it be down the road, trail riding and such.
We kept copies in every vehicle used for hauling. Then came the complaints. Some people on their way to a horseshow, was stopped in EVERY county, they went through. One pair of officers wanted the horses unloaded, to check the markings. The owners refused and the officers threatened to write them a ticket for non-compliance. The horse owners told them that these were valuable horses and they will NOT be unloaded until they arrived at their destination. They received a ticket, which they fought and won.
They arrived to the show late and a bunch of people scrambled to help them get ready for their first class. They made their class, by the way.
This law is no longer in effect.
Cheryl
flying hooves
First, dont get mad at me, I am not making a mockery of this situation.

Do you really think there are enough people to monitor the amount of animals in this country on a minute by minute basis??

Do you use a cell phone? And you worry about tracking? How about OnStar? Satellite radio?

Microchiping people? National IDs? I want to be safe and my children to be safe.

There are not enough people to monitor all this "spying" theory.

A safe Country with a safe food supply, that would be nice.

As for hiding documents pertaining to new law, its public record.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/

If something is made law or madatory it MUST be available for public view. NAIS is not a law nor is it madatory.
Cheryl L
Flying Hooves,
We know you are not mocking anything. Different points of view is what makes for great discussions.

I think that this is where I was going, when I posted about our mandatory Coggins and the need to have it on you. At first it WAS a big problem, then, they just did not have enough time to manage it, so now it is pretty much no longer there.
Cheryl
Georgia
I don't even like the sound of it.... NAIS!!

Where was everyone when we lost our free airways Dave? (I agree Hansi and others).
Any property owner were supposed to pick up the signals that dropped to your land. Now we pay to watch commercials. When everyone rattled some cages, the Government
allowed the Satellite networks the right to Steal NBC< ABC>CBS and sell their programming, Theses companies fought diligently and lost. And the homeowners lost the right to pick up the signals.

I can't tell you how many people don't know what happened and what we lost.
I don't mind if they wanted to start Satellite companies and sell signals of non commercialed TV like HBO, pay per views etc. But, when they started scrambling regular programing with commercials... so the foot in the door is dangerous.

Now not everyone can watch the Mohammad Ali's of boxing unless you pay the huge fees to the satellite companies for the priviledge to watch. This leaves alot of our children out, (especially rural) as many will never be able to watch the Nolan Ryan's of the world and have many great memories that a lot of us older ones have of such things.

Pretty Scary stuff. Thanks for bringing it to light.

Georgia
HLM
Dear Cheryl.

I can t believe what I am reading. this is against the law. Coggins are only requitred for shows, or when you board your horse or go to another state. Interstate certifcates are only required going from state to state.Furthermore the whole issue with the coggins test is crazy too. A horse can pick it up the next day after taking tests.

We are fortunate here. We have an excellent repoir with the USDA and the county.
Of course I will not take any nonsense or going over what they are authorized to do. I would instantly asked them to contact the USDA in their area or even threten to go through to the head office. I would take the name and number from such
party stopping you, advising them that you will take this to the wall.

do not be intimidated, ask them for the legal paragraph permitting them to stop you etc. and report such case to the highest authorities. Dumbbell,s eh.

Take care
hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Cheryl L
It was a pain, Hansi. This was some years ago and has now gone to the wayside. There was way to much opposition. There are a lot of people with horses in the state and at any given time, you will see someone hauling a horse.
Now take this incidence in our state and multiply it with all of the other states......maybe Flying Hooves has a point.
Cheryl
HLM
Dear Georgia

Bill and I can not vote, being canadians (legal residents here, ha)

But if I were I would bombard our governor and any and all politians to get off their butt etc.etc. But I do educate people,make them aware and starting fighting.
People votes in the wrong people. 40 million are illiterate, 100 million dont know how much is 10percent of a hundred, 50 million dont care and the rest takes you guys to the cleaners.

When I watch this voting business going on, I get sick to my stomach. In canada we do not do this. They are allowed three months to state their case and then all canada votes and the highest numbers go to that winner. Its not from Province to Province and Terretory to terretory, unless that changeD Cathy you can tell us or others. this waste of money, this three ring circus, these lies and pretences,these three dollar bill people I hear/see oVr TV is crazy.

I give you another case. My Vet friend bought two dozen of min. donkeys and the County did not want the land they be on declareDas Agri. I asked them if we should keep the donkeys in the house or front lawn. Then I put my foot down and believe it or not my friend got the land they eat off, as Agri declared.
Once a while you gotte get tough! Hate doing it, but wont allow to be stupified.
Just ask pertienent questions and make them back up what they demand. Write it down infront of them, make them feel uncomfortable, may be they back off, eh

Right now this spying business is far more dangerous than you all think. At my time there were no satelites, etc.etc.so it was mouth to mouth, door to door.
I was shocked to see over the computer our land and buildings located on the screen as clear as day light. Every post, poll,building,road,even horses were shown. this is frightening. Is this the beautiful America know since 1952 and love??? No way, Josee. Now I know how they can check the hill billy countries (actually love them).

But never forget, you catch a fish with a worm, not with an ice cream cone.
Remember YOU are the BOSS of the government employees, you pay the taxes and you have a VOICE. sO USE IT, START SCREAMING.

all take care
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Nadj al Nur
Yes, Hansi, campaigning (at least, the public kind) is still limited to three months here, and all is supposed to stop 24 hours ahead of an election. The same rules apply to provincial elections, I believe. Of course, everyone knows that the covert campaigning goes on constantly.
You are correct about putting your foot down though. When I was wanting to build my barn, some years ago, they tried to make it tough for me, because there was someone in the neighborhood who didn't think horses should be here. This person happened to be a minor official. First they said I couldn't have the permits to build. Then, when that didn't work, because everything was up to snuff, they dug out a ninety year old bylaw that said nobody could build within 400 feet of the river, which was pattently rediculous, since they had just issued a permit to build a house on the second propery over. Then they said, OK, but you have to build the barn four feet off the ground. I then asked which one of the fine gentlemen would come and teach all my horses to climb stairs. I told them that in compromise, I would put all of the electrical at least four feet off the floor, and they finally threw up their hands and signed the permits.
You need to know what is allowed. They count on people NOT knowing.
Cathy
Dave
I'm not ignorant about history. My wife is German and my mother in law has told me many war stories. She and her brother got out of Koenigsberg on the last train. I wasn't taught PC history. All I'm saying is that we don't live in a police state and that's why we're having this discussion.

Once they put chips in horses are we next. What if you have breeding horses as most of us do, are you going to let the government force you to imbed chips under their skin without know the effects on future foals. Do I have to inform the government everytime I go for a trail ride.

What I wan to know is the best way to fight back and why can't I find the original documents online?

Dave
Mr Prospector
Don't take it lying down, whatever you do.

When the Equine Influenza hit in Australia, everyone whose horses were vaccinated had to have a microchip implanted at the same time if the horse had not been implanted with one before. We were not allowed any alternative (i.e. you couldn't say " I don't want my horse microchipped". And as my mare is a TB and registered with the Jockey club, I couldn't put up a fuss as I would like to breed her or a daughter to a TB stallion down the track.

When I asked my vet, who is always honest with me, he said he had been told by DPI to do it so that tracking the animals would be easier, but he didn't specify what sort of tracking.

While I have no ethical problem with microchipping, I do have problems with it being done without having a personal choice in it being done.

My mare was not impressed and spent alot of time rubbing at the site of the microchip. If it wasn't for the fear of infection, I would have let her keep doing it.
Poor thing. (But it was the vet's "space suit" that really stressed her!)

cheers
Karen
HLM
Dear Marilyn

If it does not make common sense, fight. animals are not computers!

Dave.
the last train from Koenigsberg had to be early/middle of 1944. I still remember the
hundreds of horse drawn waggons (they used mostly Trakehners) loaded with huge weights coming from the east. Some of these mares had foals at side, trecking along. It was horrible. Some were high in foal and some foaled on the way and made it.And it was a horrible hard winter.

What these people went through is unimagenable. So the tough ones survived and from that good old stock, people and animals, the future was build up again.
Treasure it!

I concluded the harder it was, the more we went through, the better we survived and could teach the younger ones. We have to try to make them listen!

Now compare this with todays way of living here. It is terrible. so much waste, time,money,food etc. I throw half in the garbage, because it s packaging.
Food even gets moldy in the fridge after a few days. Politicians are having a field day and many dont have a clue of what life is all about. But the public is gullable,some dont want to THINK, because it hurts. When God gave out voices/speaches, these politicians had to stand in line three times to get three, because all they can do is talk.

this is why I feel we all should hold accountable, ask questions, demand reliable factual answers, and if we dont get them, go a step further.Politicians are put in by the peole, and people can remove them. REMEMBER THAT!

We have a situation here now which will take an Einstein some years to set straight. When people put a leader into place who a few years ago over the tv explained that "Bejing" (Peking) is in Argentina, all reasoning stops. The lack of international education by most of these birdbrains is phenominal. Wonder if any can count off all 51 states, eh? Or the highest mountain and largest river here, eh?
I dont think they know a dozen countries by name.

Well folks, you gotte ask questions, questions what is important in life to know and if that sucker cant answer it, dont vote for it. Just ask them what a "terrorist" is. Well right now we are being terrorized with these new demands in law.

Sorry, but I sometimes get so angry over somuch stupitity and corruption and feel so much for the common people, of which I am one.

Take care
hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Dieter
deleted.
HLM
Dear Liz (Dieter)

I watch "Link TV" and it says that what they state,show explain is the truth.
It is not controlled by anobody but by supporters. What do you all think about this station?

There is nothing worth then being intimidated. Fear is a killer. I fear only God!
We say in German " Bange machen gilt nicht" (to put you in fear does not count)

What we should fear are some politicians who themselves are so afraid to lose their job. Well lets keep hem in fear.


Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity arabian Farms
jsimicek
Dave,

You can't find the original document because the USDA pulled it off their site when people started opposing it. And just put up excerpts and a FAQ on it. The original document was SCARY- and worded so that it could be twisted to even more extreme measures, it made no guarantees or allowances for any of our rights. They assured those of us that asked pointed questions that it would not be enforced the way it read but why would they write it in a way they didn't intend to enforce? Unfortunately I didn't save the original thinking that it would have to be available for viewing.

They ( USDA rep) also told us the equine working group would be able to make the rules for horses, but that didn't happen - they had our state try to impose the same rules for the other livestock on horses- with no regard to the recommendations from the equine working group. We are fighting it here in Texas and temporarily have it stalled but every few months they try to sneak it back on the agenda and move the meetings at the last minute to try and stop the protesters from showing up. Texas was already supposed to have all premises Id'd by now and animals microchipped and tracking started by next year. Thanks to the large demonstrations and protests we keep getting the mandatory implementation date delayed. But our state has already approved 5 microchip companies for tagging, and awarded them contracts. The state has even planned how it was going to use the millions of dollars it planned to make off this program. All decided on without representation, our representatives never voted on this -they did approve for the USDA to come up with a way to track disease and bioterrorism but the actual NAIS plan was made by the USDA and the Corporate AG group it put together to design this program and required no approval by Congress. Its beauracratic law and taxation without representation.


I believe the attorney that wrote the article on the link I provided earlier does have a copy- you could probably get her to send you one via email.
.


Sandy
An American Breeder
The fine is to be $1,000 per day per violation. If you have 5 chickens that get out and go across the road; you go chase them back and don't do the huge amount of paperwork, err through the internet, your neighbor rats on you, the FINE will be $5,000 per day until what the FED NAIS demands is done.

If you go for a trail ride; NOPE, can't be done without a full health inspection by a vet, EVERY TIME, even just around your property fence. Ranchers cannot go from one side of their ranch to the other side without having authorization thru the FEDERAL NAIS office.

You cannot move your horses from one pen/pasture to another without permission from the Federal NAIS office. That is also a $1,000 per day violation.

What it is about, is what Billary was bragging about at some world wide women's forum in China a year ago when she bragged, WE control the food, we CONTROL the people.
Dave
Sandy,

Texas is a very conservative state compared to California where I live. If CA decides to impliment this, it could be worse than what's going on in Texas. I haven't seen anything about NAIS in CA but I wouldn't be surprized if it's in the works eventhough the state is broke and going deeper in the hole.

I will contact my congressman.

Dave
2mntn
I suppose it would be expecting too much to imagine that organizational entities, such as horse registries - especially those with tens of thousands of members - could be a focal point for information gathering from members. NAIS will definitely have an impact on the economics of Registries - a negative impact. If AHA thinks money is tight now - just wait for NAIS impact!

Couldn't Myron Krause represent the AHA membership in this? Poll the members, get a consensus and then take that information to the House or Senate - testify on hearings - whatever!! What about the membership of the USEF? There are hundreds of thousands of horse owners out there who need representation.

I suppose we can do a "wait and see" and then join a class-action suit, later on. dry.gif

Ray
HLM
Dear Pat

Is this true what your are stating? Cant even move about on your own Land?
Well folks, something has to be done.

We here in Florida have not been approached by anybody, and the first time I hear about NAIS is here on this forum. MIke Burton, have you heard or received anything? Or others here in Florida? What about other states?

AHRA has over 40,000 members, Qhorse has even more I think, so does the Jockey Club. We are talking here of millions of horse owners,etc in the USA.
what about the media, TV stations, etc.etc.?

Possibly the members of the other registries are taking action?
Ours should and I like to hear from AHRa president about this.

Furthermore, if they want tags, chips etc, then they should pay for it.

Most of all on this issue we all must stick together. I dont know how to set up a petition over the internet, if someone can and will, lets do it.

THIS ONE FOLKS WE GOTTE FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Nadj al Nur
Hansi, from what I understand, petitions are no good unless they are hand signed.
Cathy
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