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santiago
Anita, Christine,

Here are some pictures of JJ Americana´s daughter with Focus Highlander (Padrons Psyche out a Ruminaja Ali dtr.)
She will be 3 in Nov, so as you might see she is quite big... (though Focus had a lot to do with that) and trots really well.

Its winter here in Argentina and our horses are not stabled so I apologize for her grooming!!!


regards


Santi
Tous crins
QUOTE (Kimberli Nelson @ Jul 11 2008, 07:31 AM)
The people who have Sirecho blood in their herds treasure it for its beauty and athletic ability. To constantly question its purity or its right exist get very tiresome.  Maybe you need to study the lines today that have Sirecho blood? I think you will find that many many champions carry the line.
*



That is what I have observed too. tremendous rear-end and wonderful movement. I am a fan!

Christine

edited to add, Sirecho to me has the same effect as Rabanna in the Pritzlaff. Love them both
Tous crins
QUOTE (santiago @ Jul 11 2008, 07:34 AM)
Anita, Christine,

Here are some pictures of JJ Americana´s daughter with Focus Highlander (Padrons Psyche out a Ruminaja Ali dtr.)
She will be 3 in Nov, so as you might see she is quite big... (though Focus had a lot to do with that) and trots really well.

Its winter here in Argentina and our horses are not stabled so I apologize for her grooming!!!
regards
Santi
*



Hi Santi,

Is she the mare with Raisuli El Pharo in her pedigree?

Christine
Ralph
QUOTE (Etaya @ Jul 11 2008, 12:18 AM)
Ralph,

For you, Abitibi Fleur (Serr Maariner x Abitibi Maamouna) with 2008 colt by Imperial Mistaar (*Imperial Baarez x Imperial Mistilll)  photographs July 8, 2008, Leslie Town.

Best regards,

Jennifer
*


Jennifer: Thank you so much for posting these pictures of Fleur. Between the pictures of Fleur and PM, I have a lump in my throat, the size of Texas. The time that I spent at Princeton Arabians/Los Alamos Dressage Center were some of the happiest times of my life. smile.gif I don't think I fully realized at the time, how special this time was.

Ralph
Etaya
Ralph,

This is not a story I would normally tell in public but ...... Years ago on one of my many trips to Abitibi Farms, Albert showed me some video footage, actually 8mm footage of Serr Maariner. At the time I did not know Albert that well, 1 minute into the footage and I will weeping like a baby, trying to hide the effect Serr Maariner was having on me. The entire film played out before us without me making a comment, I was doing my level best to not look or sound like a complete idiot in front of Albert. The truth was I was so moved that I could not speak. Even now when I think of that time, well.....

We are very fortunate when we have the rare opportunity to feel a horse with our eyes & soul. For me Serr Maariner was one of those horses.

Take care,

Jennifer

P.s. When are you coming up to see Fleur????? She is getting more beautiful but not any younger.
2mntn
QUOTE (Kimberli Nelson @ Jul 11 2008, 03:31 PM)
The people who have Sirecho blood in their herds treasure it for its beauty and athletic ability. To constantly question its purity or its right exist get very tiresome.  Maybe you need to study the lines today that have Sirecho blood? I think you will find that many many champions carry the line.
*



Hello Kimberli,

Thanks for the info...and your advice. dry.gif But that ain't the point. I can study these lines until the cows come home, but I still won't find a 100% Babson at the end of the day. Right??

Christine - I like what my Spanish stallion has done as a sire - on Spanish and Egyptian mares. But I'll never find an Al Khamsa qualified horse (Asil) amoung his foals, no matter how many of them I look at....

Ray
HLM
Dear Ray

you mixed something up. Nasr (Manial) (1918) (died in 1947) has no line to the Bahrainis.He is all A. Pasha Blood. (incl. Ahemed Kamal,Hilmi II,Sharif.)

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
2mntn
Hello Hansi,

Now how could I possibly have anything mixed up?? laugh.gif laugh.gif

As I understand it, the mare Jellabiet Feysul had been a gift from Bahrain. Is this incorrect?

Ray
HLM
Hi all

Kimberly, I dont think anybody is questioning Sirechos purity, its the label which is questionable.

Many, many times have I stated that a horse well trained under saddle will always look georgeous, and I never seen an ugly athlete so to speak.

What made Serr Maariner so outstanding was his excellent performance under saddle and in ground work. Many a garden ornament could shine equally good if just given half a chance I feel. Experienced riders know that the expression on the face of a horse changes quite abit, by having to us its mind, and you can see it every time. I goes that goes for people too, eh?

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Kimberli Nelson
"Hello Kimberli,

Thanks for the info...and your advice. But that ain't the point. I can study these lines until the cows come home, but I still won't find a 100% Babson at the end of the day. Right??"

No, Ray, they would not be 100% Babson blood using non-Babson horses unless the Babson Fram added bloodlines outside of the imports, like Ansata Abbas Pasha.
Kimberli Nelson
As much as some would like it if it was correct that the mare Jellabiet Feysul is the tailfemale of *Fadl, *Maaroufa, *Zarif and *Roda ect, that is not the case. It was an error and has been researched, documented and proven with mtDNA that the mare Jellabiet Feysul is not the source mare of this line. smile.gif
HLM
Hi Ray

yes and no. Jellabiet Feysul (Wazira,Waziria) (c.1842)
was bred by the Ajman Tribe, Syria. then went to Ibn Khalifa,Bahrain and thence to Abbas Pasha, Egypt in c.1846, according to my records.. Basically she is a "syrian" mare. No records I have state that she was covered in Bahrain.
I stand correct, if there is more info on this subject.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
HLM
well Kimberly, who is?

Hansi biggrin.gif
2mntn
QUOTE (Kimberli Nelson @ Jul 11 2008, 05:18 PM)
As much as some would like it if it was correct that the mare Jellabiet Feysul is the tailfemale of *Fadl, *Maaroufa, *Zarif and *Roda ect, that is not the case. It was an error and has been researched, documented and proven with mtDNA that the mare Jellabiet Feysul is not the source mare of this line. smile.gif
*



WHAT???!! Now I am confuzed. blink.gif I had it in my head that the mtDNA showed this line as likely to be Hadban, not Kuhaylan. Which did not change their names. huh.gif

Ray
Kimberli Nelson
Ghazieh

Foaled Circa 1850

Gray Mare

Saklawiya Jidraniya

From the Stock of the Ruala Bedouin

Owned by Abbas Pasha, Egypt circa 1853

Bint Yemama was believed for many years to be Koheilah Jellabieh in strain. However when additional writings of Lady Anne Blunt were published in the late 1980’s it became apparent the accepted parentage of this mare was incorrect and that she was indeed a half sister to Messaoud. Colin Pearson’s book, “The Arabian Horse Families of Egypt” listed Bint Yemema as a Saqlawiyah, and Volume 2, by Kees Mol, explained the rationale behind this change. The controversy was finally put to rest with the assistance of modern science when Michael Bowling used mitochondrial DNA to demonstrate the descendants of Bint Yemama matched that of the mares descended from the Saqlawiyah Jidraniyah mare Ghazieh, and did not match the descendants of the known Keheilah Jellabiyah strain from Egypt. This is an excellent example of why families merit more consideration than strain alone, for regardless of whether this family was Koheilah or Saqlawiyah, the descendants of Bint Yemama included many lovely horses.
2mntn
Kimberli,

Help me out here. Who did the reseach, where is the documentation and what group is responsible for the accuracy?

Thanks,
Ray biggrin.gif
Kimberli Nelson
QUOTE (2mntn @ Jul 11 2008, 05:29 PM)
WHAT???!!  Now I am confuzed.  blink.gif  I had it in my head that the mtDNA showed this line as likely to be Hadban, not Kuhaylan.  Which did not change their names.  huh.gif

Ray
*



When the Bedu changed the strain names those horses became the new strain. But when a mistake is made in parentage and that mistake is known, then I would think it would be to our benefit to ensure that the correct information was passed on. In the care of the Rodan horses, this change took place long before the horses were exported from desert hands, in the case of these modern horses is was a mistake in parentage and not an intentional Bedu strain name change.

To continue to say that these horses came from Jellabiet Feysul is incorrect.
Tous crins
QUOTE (2mntn @ Jul 11 2008, 08:46 AM)
Christine - I like what my Spanish stallion has done as a sire - on Spanish and Egyptian mares.  But I'll never find an Al Khamsa qualified horse (Asil) amoung his foals, no matter how many of them I look at....

Ray
*



UUUHH????

are you saying sirecho and rabanna are not AK?
Kimberli Nelson
QUOTE (2mntn @ Jul 11 2008, 05:41 PM)
Kimberli,

Help me out here.  Who did the reseach, where is the documentation and what group is responsible for the accuracy?

Thanks,
Ray  biggrin.gif
*



Ray, here is an article by Michael Bowling that will help understand the confusion.

http://cmkarabians.com/articles/MBWhatsInAName.html

Others that are responsible for the research are Colin Pearson, Kees Mol, and Rosemary Archer.
2mntn
Dear Christine,

Please pay more attention to detail!! NO, that is NOT what I said and not what I intended. YOUR comment was that you liked what you thought this horse brought to the table - tremendous rear-ends, etc. Well, I like what my horse brings to the table. Sirecho is not Babson and Mandato is not Asil. THAT is the analogy.

I am disappointed that you would allude to my respect for Hansi as something derogatory.

Ray
2mntn
Thanks for that link, Kimberli. More dam flies in the ointment!! sad.gif sad.gif ph34r.gif

When will the stud books be changed? Never?

Ray
Kimberli Nelson
QUOTE (2mntn @ Jul 11 2008, 07:28 PM)
Thanks for that link, Kimberli.  More dam flies in the ointment!!  sad.gif  sad.gif  ph34r.gif 

When will the stud books be changed?  Never? 

Ray
*



I had a good laugh about stud books changing... Thank you.

You know it is sad but the arrogance of the AHA is totally unbeleivable, they will never change...It is up to use to get the correct information out there whenever possible. Hansi has always done a good job of that, we need to help when we can.
2mntn
I guess. A "fact book" which contains margins full of notations, sticky notes, flags, see this, go there, asterisks, parentheticals, addendums, maybe and according to Uncle Joe's first cousin's wife's nephew's girlfriends stepdad and so forth? Well, it just does not inspire much confidence. In any of it. ph34r.gif

I know that things change. Here at home we threw out the Encylopedia Britannica from the 1960's because new facts were found and old facts were found to be in error. Kids and grandkids couldn't use them for research anymore - stuff was wrong! So where do I get the "annotated freakin version"??

Ray
santiago
Christine,

She is a daughter of JJ Americana by Padrons Image, out of Jeddah El Pharo by Raisuli el Pharo, so yes... she has some Raisuli el Pharo.... and Im guessing thats were her Bay came from...
Americana is grey, by a Chesnut (Padrons Image) and a Grey (Jeddah el Pharo)
Focus Highlander is also Chesnut x grey.



regards


Santi
Kimberli Nelson
QUOTE (2mntn @ Jul 11 2008, 07:52 PM)
I guess.  A "fact book" which contains margins full of notations, sticky notes, flags, see this, go there, asterisks, parentheticals, addendums, maybe and according to Uncle Joe's first cousin's wife's nephew's girlfriends stepdad and so forth?  Well, it just does not inspire much confidence.  In any of it.  ph34r.gif

I know that things change.  Here at home we threw out the Encylopedia Britannica from the 1960's because new facts were found and old facts were found to be in error.  Kids and grandkids couldn't use them for research anymore - stuff was wrong!  So where do I get the "annotated freakin version"??

Ray
*



You think it is bad now???? Try learning all this 30 years ago....
Clothilde
Ralph,
I am happy you enjoyed the pic and hope to have one day one of his baby at home with my treasured girls!

A few more pics only for you!

As a two years old

Click to view attachment

Now...

Click to view attachment
Seglavi
Last weekend it was my very great pleasure to see a DVD of Serr Maariner in the hands of Major Carmona strutting his stuff! It is footage that was sent to me by Majid and I must have watched in half a dozen times. Amazing horse, incredible trainer, majestic performance.
Pam
anitae
Ray,
check the thread on this forum about mtDNA changing "strains" that Liz Dieter started.
The short answer is that Ann and Michale Bowling at UC Davis did the mtDNA research.
Ann, who passed away tragically about 5 years ago, was probably the number 1 equine genetics researcher in the US - and one of the top in the world. A terrible loss, especially as she had had Arabians for a long time and was a great lover of the breed.

Anita

QUOTE (2mntn @ Jul 11 2008, 05:41 PM)
Kimberli,

Help me out here.  Who did the reseach, where is the documentation and what group is responsible for the accuracy?

Thanks,
Ray  biggrin.gif
*
2mntn
Anita - thanks. Yes, I have been following that thread. What amazes me is that this information has been known for a DECADE!!! And the "official" record is still incorrect. I also read what Eduard had to say about it on his blog. There are NO Jellabiah's outside of Bahrain today. sad.gif

Ray
Marilyn Lang
Could someone please send me a link to Eduard's blog?

Thanks.
Marilyn
2mntn
Marilyn - see your messages.

Ray biggrin.gif
Ralph
Clo:

Thank you so much for posting the additional pictures of PM. You have no idea what an incredible lift it gives my day, to be able to see this beautiful horse again. If all my wishes were horses, there is not a property big enough, that could hold them all!!! smile.gif

Ralph
Caryn Rogosky
Quote Hansi:
"Kimberly, I dont think anybody is questioning Sirechos purity, its the label which is questionable."

I think it is necessary here to point out that any questionability regarding Sirecho's "label" as a SE originated with only one person...Hansi. In fact, no real or physical research was conducted by Hansi to secure the truth about this mare in Egypt, who is most definitely appropriately qualified as a SE Arabian. I will provide specific details and present documents to support this in the near future.
Caryn Rogosky
BasiliskBelka
QUOTE (Clothilde @ Jul 11 2008, 01:35 PM)
Keren,
We are in the process to do something to perpetue the legacy of Princeton Mariner in SBE and Sue is helping best as she can!
so now we are looking for the future!
I found that with the Vlacq mares, Princeton Mariner has produced outstanding gets!

Hope Sue wont' mind if I post anice shot of Princeton mariner in memory of his famous dad!
*

Clothilde

That is great news!

Now all *I* need is a mare to breed to him laugh.gif

Keren
idan atiq
Shalom and greetings from Israel!
On the frontpiece of the first Israel Arab Horse Society studbook is an old photo of The Shah from England , as he was the sire of several get imported into Israel - some of the earliest purebreds in our modern studbook.
The photo is not great, but should be of interest. By the way, some of his offspring here, who had between 25%-50% Babson blood, looked like they walked right off the Babson farm. I remember them well and wish I had photos to scan.
All the best,
Tzviah
idan atiq
Shalom and greetings from Israel!
On the frontpiece of the first Israel Arab Horse Society studbook is an old photo of The Shah from England , as he was the sire of several get imported into Israel - some of the earliest purebreds in our modern studbook.
The photo is not great, but should be of interest. By the way, some of his offspring here, who had between 25%-50% Babson blood, looked like they walked right off the Babson farm. I remember them well and wish I had photos to scan.
All the best,
Tzviah
idan atiq
Shalom everyone.

I am very familiar with Babson bloodlines and quite a fan for years, having grown up in Michigan, USA, where many utilized these lines to great advantage.
When I moved to Israel in 1984, I was accompanied by the straight Babson stallion Ser El Roc (Serr Rou x Serr Beth), gifted to me by Paul Hassel after I put together the sale of Al Nahr Montego to Israel in 1982. Montego, out of the straight Babson mare Bint Fada, was one of the first American-bred horses to find their way back to the Middle East, and a very influential early sire in Israel, but used mostly on non-straight Egyptian mares.

Also, although I have no idea how this idea took hold at Babolna, but in the year 2000, we were able to buy the excellent Ansata Nile Pasha daughter, 216 Haszuna B, out of 227 Ibn Galal I, one of Babolna's most successful Ibn Galal I daughters, who was on the sales list at that time because the current management did not wish to keep horses with Babson bloodlines - although he couldn't tell us why!!! Babolna's loss and our gain, for this mare and her daughters and granddaughters have proven themselves time and time again to be fantastic broodmares, wonderful riding horses and companions, and the easiest breeders on the farm.

I will attach photos of Haszuna B (Ansata Nile Pasha x 227 Ibn Galal I), her daughter Hora B ex Halim Shah I, and Hora's daughters Hayat AA (Laheeb x Hora cool.gif and Atiq Hanah MD Elsperado x Hora cool.gif for your enjoyment and assessment. All are farm photos and completely natural and unretouchd.

Have a beautiful day, all.

Tzviah Idan
Idan Atiq Arabian Stud
flying hooves
This is a Babson thread but ok laugh.gif


Ray

Unless you can prove WITHOUT a DOUBT that every mare tested for mtDNA IS who she is proposed to be there is no certainty in mtDNA science.

Remember we didn't always have DNA or blood typing for our horses.

Just one lil switch along that line could cause a BIG mistake if stud books were to change. To change all female ancestors of a mare because some decendant didn't match........

And again, we are back to horses who had MANY NAMES blink.gif
Tous crins
QUOTE (idan atiq @ Aug 10 2008, 05:36 AM)
Shalom everyone.

I am very familiar with Babson bloodlines and quite a fan for years, having grown up in Michigan, USA, where many utilized these lines to great advantage.
When I moved to Israel in 1984, I was accompanied by the straight Babson stallion Ser El Roc (Serr Rou x Serr Beth), gifted to me by Paul Hassel after I put together the sale of Al Nahr Montego to Israel in 1982.  Montego, out of the straight Babson mare Bint Fada, was one of the first American-bred horses to find their way back to the Middle East, and a very influential early sire in Israel, but used mostly on non-straight Egyptian mares.

Also, although I have no idea how this idea took hold at Babolna, but in the year 2000, we were able to buy the excellent Ansata Nile Pasha daughter, 216 Haszuna B, out of 227 Ibn Galal I, one of Babolna's most successful Ibn Galal I daughters, who was on the sales list at that time because the current management did not wish to keep horses with Babson bloodlines - although he couldn't tell us why!!! Babolna's loss and our gain, for this mare and her daughters and granddaughters have proven themselves time and time again to be fantastic broodmares, wonderful riding horses and companions, and the easiest breeders on the farm.

I will attach photos of Haszuna B (Ansata Nile Pasha x 227 Ibn Galal I), her daughter Hora B ex Halim Shah I, and Hora's daughters Hayat AA (Laheeb x Hora cool.gif and Atiq Hanah MD Elsperado x Hora cool.gif for your enjoyment and assessment.  All are farm photos and completely natural and unretouchd.

Have a beautiful day, all.

Tzviah Idan
Idan Atiq Arabian Stud
*



Wow Tviah,

I LOVE your horses!

Christine
Tous crins
QUOTE (Clothilde @ Jul 11 2008, 01:33 PM)
Ralph,
I am happy you enjoyed the pic and hope to have one day one of his baby at home with my treasured girls!

A few more pics only for you!

As a two years old

Click to view attachment

Now...

Click to view attachment
*



Wow,

I love him!

Christine
flying hooves
Gorgeous horses Tzviah!!

Keep posting pics smile.gif

Lisa
calicoarab
Yep, Tzviah, your dark chesnut mare, the one with the baby at side, she could come live with me any time!

Sandy
idan atiq
Thanks, guys, for your nice comments about the horses. So far Hora chooses to stay with us, thanks very much. We are happy to annouce that we are bringing home home dam, 216 Haszuna B by A Nile Pasha....we sold her last year, but the new owner opted to trade her for one of our younger mares. Now we're trying to decide to whom she should be bred....
Best,
Tzviah
HLM
Dear Tzviah

also I have been a Babson fan from day one, and my preference is the "Maaroufa" Line, so very similar to Gleannlochs and our imorts. . Our AK shah Munifeh is truly an outstanding horse and a super sire with many champions get to his credit. maintaining himself and that of his offspring the type of horse we like, typey and with powerful, long striding action and excellent conformation. It has also been the choice of numerous other nations importing it from us.

Indeed there are different types of the babson, in type and conformation.
But I have not seen a bad one yet.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms

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