If a buyer does not pay for in cash or foals back the horse they bought from you
in full. Should you tranfer ownership or not????

Should you negotiate or not??

Should you accept less??

Should you just take the horse back???

I think you should take your personal business off SE.com

Huh?????

Whats personal??

Aren't you the person that cared for Shah El Sun?????(He was beautiful)
Now that's personal!!!!

The horse should not leave your property till it's payed for. Then there's no problem.
Cathy

Thanks he was beautiful and yes I cared for him as I owned him

Contracts are what is needed. Good ones with everything spelled out.

If you want the horse back get it back if you don't then settle.

A good rule of thumb in "situations" being the outsider is, there are always 2 sides to a story and sometimes a middleman with 3rd side and then there's the truth.

In Court the Judge hears all sides and makes a decision. He never likes to hear one side and make a decision.

I posted this as I would like to here from experienced breeders,
or those that breed many horses. I do appreciate all answers ; however when selling more than 5 horses per year. Those are probably the answers that would be more in the lines for these questions.

Cathy,

I for over 20 years have sold horses on terms, and will continue to do so
even when I run accross a few bad weeds! Sometimes I think maybe not
being so flexible would be far easier; however, I have met some fantastic horse lovers that I never would have met being that cut and dry! Yes there are risks,
yet I think asking these questions may bring to surface different elements
that may help in doing terms. Or even help buyers and sellers to see both sides!

Here is a story from a friend of mine.
A lady bought a stallion, never made a payment and took the stallion home.
The lady cried how poor she was everytime the guy asked for his stallion back or payment. The gentleman got tired of the battle and gave her the papers even though
she did not pay for the stallion

Feel free to PM your opinions!!!

KR
Candi!

There are no new ideas on this subject. If there was a contract, then the terms of the contract will either be met or they will not. What follows if the terms are not met have been spelled out in the terms - no surprise to anyone. If the terms of the contract are to be changed through negotiations, be it for less, extended time period or whatever - these are probably things that were not spelled out in the original contract, which means you will need to write a new contract with the changes spelled out. If you had no contract, then either party is free to do whatever they want to do within their own moral quidlines.

If you are asking these questions because of the current condition of the economy and the fact that there are tens of thousands of unwanted horses - then there are many reasons to do any of the things you suggested.

And so, in the end, it will come down to a situation as Lisa first suggested - this is a personal issue and would be handled differently by different persons. Do whatever you think is best and spare us the details.

Ray

Ray,

These are all general questions ,and if you want to be spared spare yourself and don't suffer anymore on this thread. You do not have to open this thread!

Looks like the Goons are waking up...........

There are others on this forum that will read and comment wether you like it or not!

You can post anything you like and anywhere you would like,that is your business. You can follow me around and look like a stalker( says alot about you)!
And to your dismay, I will start threads,enjoy myself, and give 0 hoots about some grouchy negative person such as Ray!

Hey, thanks for the advice........

KR
Candi

Here's a few stories from a friend of mine

There is a person who sells breedings to his stallion, shipped semen, only his stallion doesnt have a permit. The mare owners get screwed for not asking.


A breeder buys all his horses on terms, pays them all off, never a problem, buys one through a 3rd party and all hell breaks loose. Buyer and Seller cut out 3rd party and all is resolved.


Someone buys a stallion, some jealous psycho emails everyone they can slandering the horse and owner, because they think they are "someone".... without asking, everyone believes the psycho.


Lots of things happen, thats life, you live, you learn who the backstabbers are you carry on

Contracts contracts contracts

I wanted to add one more thing.

If you hear a story from someone, don't check any of the facts out, just believe the person. how do you know it is true?

Do you just listen to anything you hear from someone you think you know?

I have gotten some pretty disturbing emails about people. If I just take their word because I trust them I would be pretty judgemental with nothing to back it up.

There are quite a few people on here who act all sweet and innocent who are really trecherous people in private.

If you are not personally involved, seller and buyer, stallion owner and mare owner, or unless you have seen court documents or other legal documents you cannot make a judgement.

Here is a sad story with an happy end:
A person from my town wanted to buy some good quality stallion and he could not choose butter, he bought a son of Imperial Imdal himself, a promising beautiful young SE clot.
Part of the payment for the colt was in cash and the other was in personal checks.
After some time when he had him, he discovered that his colt may have some problems with his breeding organs, so he went back to the original owner for his money or for some other healthy colt or filly.
The original owner did not agree to change the deal or to cancel it and there was a conflict born between these tow people, the buyer canceled the personal checks he gave and the original owner did not take any actions to get papers for the colt.
So here the colt ended up perfectly healthy, his breeding organs where just fine, but with no papers and with an owner that didn't want him. He was not toke care of very well until he was sold to a friend of mine who had him for few years and was very proud of him.
Sadly my friend went to other country to study and had to sell the horse, after that all went bad for the poor thing, he was not fed well, abused by his owners, one after one,
he even was SHOT in his back leg and hit by a car. His legs where permanently deformed
Finlay this son of IMDAL was bought by some one who could see what a great horse he is, paid a great deal of money to the original owner and got him papers and for the last few years he stands proudly and happily as A Sire At Stud with few mares around him.
He was never shown because of his deformation but he is still beautiful and respectful .

SO next time when you want to buy a horse please take a vet with you, check the horse, PAY for the horse and plz don"t leave unclosed issues with the seller, because any conflict between you people will only harm the Horse.

Marcogold,

A story with a wise warning... You are correct... THE HORSE ALWAYS PAYS THE ULTIMATE PRICE for deals gone bad... Tracy

Marcogold,

Very sad, yet Happy ending...!
Great story.
That is the hardest part of breeding , to worry
about horses that you have sold or placed.
To hope that they all get good lives and do not suffer, by abusive hands.

KR
Candi

There is no need to worry, or hope that your horses do not suffer IF you do your homework FIRST! If you must sell horses without being able to screen buyers more thoroughly, then you just have to take whatever lumps you happen to get in that process. Like Tracy said - the horses get the short end of the stick in almost every case. So - it's your horse in the first place and you do what you think is best. Later on, you'll have no one to blame but yourself if things go wrong!

Ray

I have a simple solution, one that my husband insists on. If someone can not pay for the horse up front, they don't get the horse, or if they want to pay in increments, the horse stays until payed for. JK

Jan, I absolutely agree. This makes things so much simpler for all concerned.

It seems to me that anyone who has been selling horses for a lot of years should have that all figured out anyway.

Anyone who sells a horse without a contract is just asking for trouble, but if you have a contract and you are not prepared to take legal steps to enforce it, it's not worth much anyway. And, a contract needs to be a "legal" document with no holes in it, not just something you wrote up on the kitchen table.

If you decide to let your horse go without being paid for then first you had better decide if you can live with not getting paid at all. If not, then keep your horse at home until you have the money in your hand. Life is too short to deal with all the frustration and upset that is caused by a bad sale.

Carol,


Great answers!
Also great PMs everbody!!!!!

Kr
Candi

In the state of Tennessee, as in many other states....A contract carries much more weight if it is accompanied by a seperate Security Agreement for purchases that are made on terms. All sells that are made over time by our farm have one. Ours is seperate and accompany the purchase contract and spell out the terms and conditions and the laws for our state. Although not required, it seems to be working for us.

And, we do not transfer ownership until the horse is paid for.

But, I do know some wonderful people that have become great horse owners because someone worked with them on the terms of a purchase.

Contracts are useless, no matter how airtight, when deceptive buyers choose to ignore the terms!

Simply ,

I have to agree with you!
I have found that contracts are great for honest people.
Other than that worthless.

Kr
Candi

So, another reason to keep the horse on your farm till it's payed for.......on terms or not !
Cathy

After being burned, the first response is to say never again;however,
I just can't find it in me to judge many by few!

I am willing to take the bad with the great!!!
I started this thread as sometimes a new idea, or some information can surface that is really helpful.
From others experiences I think we can learn.
Just to say no , I think is not very giving nor trusting.
I prefer to continue trusting.... and learning...
And am open eared to any suggestions other than quitting
or not giving.


Kr
Candi

It's nice to be trusting if you have deep pockets
If you don't have deep pockets you won't be around long anyway, if you have to go to court everytime a sale falls through.
And you had better be someone who enjoys a good fight as well.
My dad used to say" If you're fooled once, shame on the person who fooled you. If you're fooled twice, shame on you".

Ray

I can't agree that if one chooses the right home the horse will be fine. Things do go wrong and so many horses are later sold on and the breeder has no control over that. What was a super home can turn out not so good due to job loss/divorce etc and the horse then has to be sold or moved to less than ideal circumstances.

I have been trusted and paid in instalments for horses I could not have bought outright and it has been great for me. I had the horses but not the transfer of ownership until the money was paid (as we agreed) and have become friends with the sellers who still get updates and photos of their horses and I have done the same and only once been cheated.

Barbara

There is an advantage to having a good reputation in the horse business., We could always pay in payments if we wanted to but my husband did not like payments. To bad we don't have a Better Business Bureau like the Quarter Horse Registry. They give you a report on how many complaints people have filed against certain breeders, no details, but number of complaints. You can always discount a certain percentage accounting for some people who can never be placated but it's a good indication. JK

I had thought someone was working on something of this nature, but nothing ever came of it to my knowledge.

Kathy

Ah, that would have been me, I think. I did get some of the articles together, but found myself with no time for sleep. I put it on the back-burner for 2012, the year I RETIRE from my 12 hour a day job!! If we get an early retirement, I'll be soliciting for help sooner. Of course, if someone else has the time to do it now, I'll be happy to collaborate with them with what I have thus far

Liz