Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Bint Serra Tail Female Line
StraightEgyptians.com Forum > Overview - ‹bersicht > Discussion - Diskussion
Ralph
I understand that in Straight Babson Egyptian (SBE) form, this line, as a tail female line is extant. I would like to know how big (or how small) this tail female line is within the SE gene pool? Any Sheykh Obeyd (SO)? Any Heirloom? I think we spoke of this on a small scale within the ADDICTED TO HORSES discussion but am having difficulty trying to locate the information.

Thank you so much,

Ralph
Connyi
I would say as a tail female line it's a very small line in SE and in general.
Etaya Egyptian Stud has some mares from that line.
Qadar Arabians has SES Nadira, her dam SES Bint Fabo lives at Saba Arabians in Australia.
At Equinox Arabians there's Thee Debutante.
Bint Serra is also the tail female line of Ra'adin Royal Star, sire of Simeon Shai.
Ralph
Hi Everyone: Found the posts in the ADDICTED thread, about Bint Serra tail females alive and well as SE horses. Would like to find out how well-represented this tail female line is in today's SE population, beyond the individuals, for whose information has already been posted. If one were to incorporate this bloodline, where do you go:

QUOTE (Seglavi @ Jan 8 2009, 11:19 AM)
Demelza, that is quite a mare, by Fabo and out of an own daughter of *Ansata Ibn Halima!† Indeed she is tail female *Bint Serra I within the SE group, just not SOFI. Our mare is SE but not SOFI.† There are no more *Bint Serra I tail females left in straight Egyptian Babson. Most unfortunate, Walter Schimanski tried valiantly, and after him, Jay Gormley, to continue the line but they both failed. There are some *Bint Serra I female lines left in SOFI SE's, just not straigiht Babsons. At least there is some diversity left. The Dahmahs have emerged as the largest % within SOFI horses I think.† The lines to Farida and *Bint Bint Sabbah are overpowering the others. Jill could probably weigh in on this with more insight. Today it appears that the "blends" will be the only survivors.† The straight Babson Egyptians are doing well, being replaced regularly and in fairly large number as percentages go. The Pritzlaff group of SE's is in the most trouble with only 1 or 2 foals a year for the past 5 years, far below what it will take to sustain that group.
And that fairy snow plaw cat was a spew moment!
Ralph, I loved the thought for the day, so true isn't it?
Pam
*
QUOTE (Seglavi @ Jan 7 2009, 10:57 PM)
Ralph, Ravenwood Dena (Sonimoniet RSI X Masada Fa Khedena) the mother of that colt,† is indeed a rare *Bint Serra I tail female in SE and SOFI.† We have a daughter by Ravenwood Saiga at our farm, quite an impressive mare, tall, elegant and so full of herself, she rarely walks anywhere, always running.
Pam
*
QUOTE (tmaiyer @ Jan 8 2009, 01:44 PM)
I don't have the photo with me that Pam is referring to with me and† Mistu Royal Sirecho, out of Ravenwood Dena and by Ibn Serr Echo but I know I have posted it in the past. "Roy" is now 3 and is absoluetly HUGE. Ibn Serr Echo and Ravenwood Dena are still both with us and are producing yearly.
Ravenwood Dena is by far my favorite mare that we have. She is just an outstanding horse that has always outproduced herself. She is a pretty big mare herself but all of her foals have been bigger.
As Pam said, they have the first foal that we produced out of Dena by Ravenwood Saiga (deceased). That foal gave Jess a run for her money. Mistu Rave on Rouge is her name and she also is a big girl with alot of personality.
"Roy" was the next one that was produced out of Dena and by "Ibby". Again a big by with tons or personality.
We also have a 2008 filly out of Dena by a Masada bred stallion that have. Same thing here with this filly.....very big and great temperment. If anyone is interested in her she is for sale but we will not part with Dena.
*
DemelzaH
Just a quick correction: Bint Fabo is now owned by Allyndah Arabians. smile.gif

At Saba she produced 2 fillies by Thaqib Al Nasser (the 2005 model is the black/grey in the 3 happy snaps below. The bay foal is El Seid Al Saba and the white horse is Daddy smile.gif ).
jillerisman
Hi Ralph,

This list is limited to Al Khamsa-eligible SE horses, but
as near as I can tell from the free Al Khamsa online roster,
the connection to *Bint Serra I within the SE population
could only come through one daughter that bred on:
Fa Deene (*Fadl x *Bint Serra I).

Fa Deene in turn had one SE daughter that bred on,
and she left 3 SE daughters with offspring:

1948 cm Khedena (Khebir x Fa Deene)
1952 gm Fay Khedena [ 4] (Fay-El-Dine x Khedena)
1953 cm Khamsa [ 1] (Fay-El-Dine x Khedena)
1962 km Fa Dena [ 4] (Fa-Serr x Khedena)

Of these three daughters within SE lines,
Fay Khedena survives though her daughter Misimma's only SE daughter:

1978 gm Sara Bint Misimma (AK Waseem Montaal x Misimma)
1984 km Misimma Bint Sara [ 3] (Fabo x Sara Bint Misimma)
1990 gm Sara Johara [ 2] (Serr Al Sahih x Sara Bint Misimma)
1991 gm Ravenwood Misimma [ 1] (Masada El Fahim x Sara Bint Misimma)
1993 km Ravenwood Hildea [ 7] (RG Al Mone x Sara Bint Misimma)
1995 gm RavenwoodBintSara [ 1] (RG Al Mone x Sara Bint Misimma)

The second daughter of Khedena with surviving SE tail-female mares is
Khamsa by Fay-El-Dine, and again, only through a single daughter
Raadin Hilal. Her SE female progeny are:

1970 gm Raadin Hilal (Sireff x Allah Ateyyah)
1974 cm Om Khamsa [ 6] (*Tuhotmos x Raadin Hilal)
1976 bm Raadin Kamar [ 2] (*Ansata El Wazir x Raadin Hilal)
1977 gm Raadin Khebira [ 9] (Ansata Ibn Sudan x Raadin Hilal)

It is through Om Khamsa only that this female line survives today within SOF
horses that also qualify as SE. Off the top of my head I would say there are no
Heirloom SE tail-female *Bint Serra I mares left, but I would love to be
corrected if I'm wrong. Within the SOF population, Om Khamsa's tail-female
descendants number less than ten living in my estimation.

The last daughter of Khedena with surviving SE mares
is Fa Dena by Fa-Serr. Her SE female progeny are:

1966 km Bint Fa Dena (*Ansata Ibn Halima x Fa Dena)
1970 cm Bint Daaldan (Daaldan x Bint Fa Dena)
1975 gm Abitibi Zamana [ 6] (Ansata Shah Zaman x Bint Daaldan)
1974 gm SAR Morafa (*Morafic x Bint Fa Dena)
1978 gm BB Serrasab [ 5] (Serr Halim x SAR Morafa)
1980 gm SAR Serrazahd [ 6] (SAR Fadl Halim x SAR Morafa)
1986 gm SAR Dona Jain [ 3] (Shaikh Al Badi x SAR Morafa)
1976 gm Monadena (*Ibn Moniet El Nefous x Bint Fa Dena)
1982 gm Halimas Legacy [ 3] (*Ansata Ibn Halima x Monadena)
1986 cm Eskada Alicia [ 6] (Ruminaja Ali x Monadena)
1968 bm Il Bint Khedena (*Ansata Ibn Halima x Fa Dena)
1977 gm AK Dantilla (*Ibn Moniet El Nefous x Il Bint Khedena)
1984 gm Fa Sharaf [ 3] (Moniet El Sharaf x AK Dantilla)
1985 bm Serra Sharaf (Moniet El Sharaf x AK Dantilla)
1987 gm DE Desert Shah (Shaikh Al Badi x AK Dantilla)
1984 bm Monshaara (Moniet El Sharaf x Il Bint Khedena)
1993 cm MB Shaarin [ 1] (*Ibn Safinaz x Monshaara)
1981 bm AK Bint Serra (Waseem Ibn Bahrou x Fa Dena)

Well, that is all the free time I have tonight...hope this assists.
More can be extracted by cross-referencing this starter list
with Datasource to see what the current SE numbers are....

Kind Regards,

Jill
peter
Hello Jill,

You are overlooking the beautiful Masada Fay Khedena (fabo x om khamsa) and her entire family (several daughters and sons !) and to my knowlegde Om Khamsa also had a bay daughter by Masada Fahim who at least produced one colt by Ali Atik.

I hope this completes the list a bit.

Cheers

Peter
Ralph
Hi Peter...I like this mare Om Khamsa very much smile.gif I had saved a picture which was originally posted by Jill Erisman. I upload it here for you now smile.gif
Ralph
Conny: Thanks for reminding me of the mare Abitibi Fleur (Serr Maariner x Abitibi Maamouna) and also Abitibi Madelina (*Imperial Madheen x Abitibi Maamouna) and Abitibi Harmonie (Faris el Sham x Abitibi Madelina), as well as the daughters that these mares have produced for Etaya. Also, the mares SES Nadira (Ansata Nle Pasha x SES Bint Fabo) and the Thee Desperado daughter (out of SES Khebria who goes back to Om Khamsa), Thee Debutante. smile.gif smile.gif Jeff and Judy Barth of Qadar have assembled some really nice horses. It was great to vist their site. Also, I was impressed with the horses owned by John and Susan Fox, of Equinox. I really like the cross of Thee Desperado, which resulted in this mare, Thee Debutante. She is big and substantial. Is her mother, the Orashan daughter alive? If it wasn't for you, I would not have learned of these 2 places. smile.gif
Ralph
Jill: Thank you so much for the list that you posted. I really am grateful! smile.gif
mistuarabians
Ralph-
The mare Masada Fa Khedena is a smaller version of our Ravenwood Dena (Fa Khedena's daughter)- I would say smaller because our Dena looks to have longer legs....


here is a picture of her at the Event in 05--- and a pic of her SOF daughter Mistu Rasheeda (Medinna Roman Emperor) at 2 weeks.....

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Jessica
jillerisman
QUOTE (peter @ Jan 21 2009, 12:44 PM)
Hello Jill,

You are overlooking the beautiful Masada Fay Khedena (fabo x om khamsa) and her entire family (several daughters and sons !) and to my knowlegde Om Khamsa also had a bay daughter by Masada Fahim who at least produced one colt by Ali Atik.

I hope this completes the list a bit.

Cheers

Peter
*


Hi Peter,

Walter Schimanski actually bred Masada Fay Khedena
to my stallion, so I promise I did not overlook this family branch
as I consider it Walter's highest compliment to my horse! smile.gif

Masada Fay Khedena and her dam Om Khamsa comes from the
*Bint Serra I family branch of Khamsa, through the Jean Jennings bred mare
Raadin Hilal. The numbers in my original post above on this
thread that follow each mare are the progeny of each mare...
further research would flesh out the list.
I stand by my estimate that within the SE/SOF population,
there are less than 10 tail-female *Bint Serra I mares living.

I hope this helps and thank you for highlighting Om Khamsa's
family in this thread...it is a magnificent branch of a tremendous
mare line.

Kind Regards,

Jill
kay cochran
My stallions Anazeh El Zahra and Anasazi BK have line(s) to Bint Serra through his dams line. It is not tail female but is still important as part of his heritage. JK
peter
Hi Jill,

I know....Walter had sent me photos of the resulting foal- a colt and 4 grandparents to the Saklawi-line of Bint Serra and Radia !! The colt looked very Saklawi to me. He was chestnut at birth, the same particular colour as his dam, but he turned out to be a grey one after all. A lovely match !

Ps.. does your stallion have a full sister, JA Zaafarana (or something like that ?)

Hi Ralph/Jill,

That picture is unmistakebly Om Khamsa. What a shame she returned blind at one eye after being bred at Gleannloch. One of the best mares ever bred !

Cheers,

Peter
Tous crins
QUOTE (mistuarabians @ Jan 21 2009, 04:45 AM)
Ralph-
The mare Masada Fa Khedena is a smaller version of our Ravenwood Dena (Fa Khedena's daughter)- I would say smaller because our Dena looks to have longer legs....
here is a picture of her at the Event in 05--- and a pic of her SOF daughter Mistu Rasheeda (Medinna Roman Emperor) at 2 weeks.....

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Jessica
*



Nice mare Jessica, very stretchy
jillerisman
Hi Peter,

Well I'm delighted to meet you in the virtual sense:
Walter was always so good to me. I love it that
you know these old horses...it was a privilege to
see them and it is wonderful to know you saw
them too!

Yes, my stallion is a full brother to JA Bint Zaafarana.
She was a chestnut, the darker/liver/Babson variety
while my stallion is gray. I saw her once as a mature
mare out at Jay Gormley's when he lived in San Luis
Obispo...talk about love at first sight. smile.gif
Sadly, she died without having any foals. With
love comes the occasional heartbreak I suppose....

Ralph,

Thanks so much for posting the picture of
Om Khamsa. Walter sent it years ago when
I was doing an article on *Simeon Shai for
Arabian Visions but it didn't get used for that piece.
I stumbled across it last Summer and re-shot it
digitally to preserve it and post on the forum.
I have no idea who took it, but it is her. Peter,
do you know who might have taken that photo?
I'd love to know as it's a great shot of a totally class mare.
She was even better in person!

Cheers indeed!

Jill
Ralph
Really quick, as I am pressed for time. Just wanted to let you know that it has been a long time, since I felt this feeling of camaraderie and it is so wonderful to experience it once again...so, thank you to all of you: Peter, Jill, Conny, Jessica, Kay, Christine...to meet people who share common interests and feelings for these particular horses. It just makes you feel good and reminds me that we are not alone and not as unique as we believed ourselves to be. I have a common bond with you all. Thank you so much and "virtual hugs" to all. smile.gif

Ralph
tmaiyer
Ralph

Come on over to the addicted thread for some more true friendship amongst die hards who love the breed, not the $.
You have ALOT of catching up to do and if you miss ONE day you will find yourself 4 pages behind.
BUT, I can promise you that will meet more people that share the passion and are the friendliest group.
Tom
Rising Phoenix
Hello Everyone,
My Mother's SE Stallion POV SI Alitaz, tails 8th gen, to Bint Serra, we also have his Dam ( EAI Alicia Elinor) on the farm as well.

We also have two Safeen daughters, Safeen tails to Bint Serra on his Dam line. I'm thinking about breeding my Safeen daughter with POV SI Alitaz this spring, thus I shall Dbl. up on Bint Serra.
Seglavi
Wow, that would be a very exciting cross indeed! We often mourn the diminishing number of tail male stallions within the Asil and SE groups but the continuing loss of a diversity of female lines is just as worrisome. I know, I know many will say that the root mares are few as well but when a few sisters have only a few daughters and then those daughters have few or no replacements, it simply points out that every horse needs a replacement or two within their own breeding group. Even then the vagaries of real life often doom the best efforts of dedicated breeders. So consider carefully your breeding plans this year. Each pedigree is the future of our horses, I urge each of us to make those decisions with great reflection and consideration of our modern SE and Asil horses. And I simply love this thread! I was fortunate to visit with Om Khamsa later in her life. She was a stellar mare, even blind, her little foal had a tiny bell that allowed her to follow it's movements and not to worry too much. When we arrived in Arkansas with Razal Ibn Azalia to breed to Masada Fa Khedena, it was truly a moment in my life I won't forget. May there be many, many more!
Pam Studebaker
DJS
My stallion has three crosses to Bint Serra on his dam's side, but alas, not in the tail female position.
Rising Phoenix
Hi DJ,
Need to study your boy's pedigree more, didn't know he had all those crosses to Bint Serra.

Hey everyone, my mom might be leasing some of here SE mares, the mare I mentioned in a former post might be one. If interested just say so. She is a beauty, Bay an honest 16 hands tall, great moves beautiful head & a neck that you just don't see that often in SE's. Plus she tails to Bint Serra 7th gen. For more info. just PM me. Cash lease, with insurance.
Rising Phoenix
Brand new SE filly born on June 9th 2009 who is a paternal grandaughter to EAI Alicia Elinor the mare who tails 7th gen. To Bint Serra I..

She will be listed in the classified section.
anitae
Susan Mayo has a group of these through the Om Khamsa daughter Masada Fay Khedena that you can see at www.susarinc.com/khedena.html
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.