Hansi,

I think you have brought up a very interesting subject, that being the performance capabilities of the respective family strains within the Straight Egyptian Arabian horse.

Knowledge of the root family strain of each ancestor is an important breeding tool for all breeders of the Egyptian Arabian horse.

“The Authentic Arabian Bloodstock” (blue book) by Judith Forbis offers an invaluable lesson on Arabian strains, their origins and the modern day descendants. “Egypt’s Arab Horses-History & Cultural Heritage” is another fabulous reference book the offers the serious breeder an in-depth study of the foundation Root Mares of the EAO.

Why don’t we start this topic over again with the sole purpose of learning about the inherent capabilities of each of the family strains?

Attached is a wonderful photo. borrowed for educational purposes, from the Authentic Arabian Bloodstock (blue book) by Judith Forbis, of three members of the Kuhaylan Rodan strain, Bint Rissala branch.

Pictured (left to right) are three top producing mares from this family.

Enayat (*Morafic x Ameena)
Kaydahom (Azmi x Om El Saad)
Bint Om El Saad (Nazeer x Om El Saad (Shahloul x Yashmak II)

Let’s start a discussion on the inherent capabilities of these fabulous mares and of the Kuhaylan Rodan strain first through the root mare Bint Rissala.

Judi

Dear Judi

thank you for this lovely photo of the three hihgly influencial mares, Enayat (Inshass) (1961) by Morafic x Ameena (Inshass)
Kaydahom (1957) by NIl (1951) x Om El saad
Bint Om El Saad (1958) by Nazeer x Om El Saad)

I like to ad
Mamlouka (1959) by Nazeer x Malaka

ENAYAT- produced 4 daughters and 2 sons.
'SAKR" (1968) US National champion- Park and Costume
and producer of champions
Daad (1970) producer of Nagma Fouad (1975) champion & US TopTenF.
Moataz (1973) Race winner


KAYDAHOM -Produced 1 daughter and 2 sons
Nagda- Dam of Legion of Meritt Champion "Nagid++"1972
Thabit Gelding-
Kayed produced 43 daughters and 29 sons
I dont have the records of his champion get

BINT OM EL SAAD-produced 2 daughters and 6 sons
Serenity Sonbolah (1967)- over 30 Grand Championships
US Top ten in 1970, US National Champion in 1971.

IKHNATOON (1974)
Badr+/-(1980) 1991 US National Champion-Engl.Pleasure
1991 US National champion-Costume


MAMLOUKA (1953) produced 5 daughters and no sons
Fawkia (1965) US Natl. Top Ten 1968
Producer of race champion Imperial Nalaseef (1964)

SF BINT MAMLOUKA (1959)producer of 12 daughters and 4 sons-recorded
Serenity Shahwa-(1971- Champion by Ibn Hafiza
Sf BtBtMamlouka (1972) Champion by Khofo++
Serenity Ferial (1974) champion by Sf Ibn Nazeer
Serenity Caramia (1976) champion by Sf Ibn Nazeer
Serenity IbnKhofo (1977) undefeated racer-Grand Prix Dressage horse
Serenity Mamlouk (1979) MIle race winner,halter US Top 20
Serenity Habib (1995) champion,dressage winner,Goldmedalist
Most all produced champions, some Goldmedalist in sportshorse in hand or endurance racing.

Most all of these Se Arabians were mated with Hadban Enzahis or Saqlawi Jidrans,and Abayyan Um Jurays (Ibn Hadfiza) and the results stand all on their own. While I dont have all records, espcially internationally, may be other posters can bring such forth.

It appears that the strains of Kuhaylan Rodan, Hadban Ezanhi,
Saqlawi Jidran and Abyyan Um Juray produced incredible athletes,who also were beautiful enough to win Halter championships galore.
Up todate, knowledgable horsemen/women seek out offspring
of these strains and appear to be successfull. In open competition
it is the athletic abilities which count so much.

Just my opinion and findings. I hope other posters come also forth with more results.

Have a nice day
Hansi
Serenity Arabians

Thank you for the stats Hansi.

I'm surprised that no-one else has responded with respect to the Bint Rissala family. Aside from the three mares that I mentioned there was also the mare Kateefa by Shahloul. Germany should remember this mare line as her daughter Bint Kateefa is the dam of Kaisoon by Nazeer and Farag by Morafic. Bint Kateefa, herself by Sid Abouhom is maternal half sister to that fabulous broodmare producer Alaa El Din by Nazeer.

Just to give you an idea of the Rissala line production I've posted a couple of photos, the first being the leading performance winner within Straight Egyptian lines, *Sakr (Sultan x Enayat).

Here is a photo of Bint Kateefa by Sid Abouhom (photo from Irwin Piduch's wonderful book). Maternal half sister to Alaa El Din and Dam of Kaisoon and Farag.

Here is the lovely Serenity Sonbolah by Sameh representing the Bint Rissala line through Bint Om El Saad

If Bint Om El Saad did nothing other than produce Serenity Sonbolah she would be considered a great broodmare, however, she could and did produce quality in both daughters and sons. Bint Om El Saad is also the dam of *Serag by Anter, Kais I by Mohawed and last but certainly not least her son that was retained by the EAO, Ikhnatoon by Farazdac.

Pictured here is Ikhnatoon (G. Boiselle photo)

HI Judi

thank you these photos. BIn Kateefa was photographed I guess at the time when most all EAO horses were quite thin, they did not have enough feed, dont I remember, and the photo of Serenity Sonbolah is showing her in high age. I have others.

Yes, I always wondered too, why the Risala , herself a champion, line is hardly ever mentioned, yet such great horses came through that line and some experts are often looking for those Arabian, containing that bloodline. I guess, that's why they often have been quite exspensive too.

Surely some people must remember the goldmedalist "Rasim" in their pedigree, Ras El Hadd, a multiple race winner,Rijma, rythma, Rafina, Rissla and Bint Risala, also a champion, and all daughters of the great Risala. Rasim, of course, was quickly bought by Poland and produced such greats as Raseem, champion, Razina, Goldmedalist,Sainfoin,Stakes race winner, Awalani, goldmedalist,
etc.etc. I think these lines carried forward in many a champion
of todate. England can be rather proud.

Have a nice day
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms


PS
any more photos??

this is a very professional discussion,the best way to speak about horses is to see pictures and talk about achievements,that is good,while talking without them is a total waste of time,BRAVOOOOOO.I have a mare out of ADL DAUGHTER while she has no championship but she so naturally atheletic and super mover,when you ride her she is so alive and vibrant that you would think she has been trained by experts in dressage.she also made a nice colt which moves like mama the day he was born.if you study the pedigree there are DAHMAN,KUH.RODAN,KUH.JELABI,OBAYYAN,AND SEQLAWI PREDOMINANTLY.where did all that fire come from??????????she is called DESERT SINANA EZZAIN(ANSATA SINAN X ADALAIA BY ADL AND SETTOHOM WHO IS BY ALANEED AND SHALABIA)can any tell me how were these horses??????????

In regards to Kateefa, I wonder if these horses mature slower than other strains. The reason I ask is becaise one of my mares has Kateefa blood, in fact, her name includes "Kateefa"! As a youngster, her head appeared long for her body. Now as a 6 year old mare, her head appears proportional to the rest of her body. Her head is starting to dry out.

Hi Hansi,

Yes, I'm sure these are old photos. I was unhappy when I was searching through my photo box as I couldn't find a better photo of Sonbolah. I know you have wonderful photos and we need to get together some time so that we can get them put on a cd. Time consuming but well worth it

I will continue to search and will post some more later. You mentioned Mamlouka. The Riyala branch of the Kuhaylan family is next!

Attached is a photo of *Serag, the maternal half-brother to Serenity Sonbolah by another super broodmare sire, Anter. This photo was taken by Johnny Johnson at Bentwood Farms just prior to *Serag being exported to the farm of Nagib Audi in Brasil. We re-imported *Serag back to the United States when he was 19 years old to incorporate this fabulous blood into our breeding programme. *Serag gave us 22 Straight Egyptian offspring prior to his death in 1995 at the age of 23. For Nagib Audi, *Serag was bred to many fabulous mares at his farm some were former Scottsdale champions.

Hi Uzamah
Now that is a real nice pedigree of Desert Siana Ezzain (1999).
She is a Saqlawi Jidraniyah and also carries double "Basilisk"
also the Saqlawi Jidraniyah Strain.

you mightr know that "Anter" (1946) a race champion, produced multple champions, very athletic line,
She carries Amrulla, race winner, (2/12(7-1-4)1m,Sid Abouhom,race champion (7/28(13-9-6) (he did a mile in 1.46)
Nawaf (1966), race winner, (1/6(2-1-3), Nazeera (1954) producer of US National champion and Top Ten,and of course the Great El Deree,winner of 14 or more races. I can go on and on, but I guess you already know all those goodies, right?

NO wonder your baby can fly. She was bred by Christine Chazal, France, a lady and judge who knows a good horse, when she sees one.

Now I hope you let his wonderful pedigreed mare step in the footsteps of her brilliant ancestors and have her trained
to compete UNDER SADDLE, that is.

Have a great day and good luck
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms

Hi Judi

I first saw "Serag" at Nagib Audi, Brazil, when he was about
12 years old. I was very impressed with him. He was very correct and indeed had a georgeous trott, movement. then Nagib brought out some of his children, there were then at side of their dams, and they were outstanding, extremely uniform and all had excellent movement. But then I also saw him here at your place in Florida,when he was already quite old, still had that fire in his eyes, still in good form, just a real good stallion.

Of course, being a Son of "antar" (1946) showed off well in him.
I always loved the Antar blood, in combination with Nazeer, Mashhour, MOrafic, etc. such superb daughters were produced who kept on producing, producing, producing these "super athletes" and multiple champions. Out of 85 children he produced, 19 were Dahmans, the rest Kuhaylan Rodanias and Saqlawiyas, Hadban Enzahis and a few Abayyan Um Jurays. I guess the eAO knew what they were doing too.

Lets continue, as we go along, this is getting so interesting.

Hansi

I guess, breeding does not lie, one just has to thoroughly check out
what is what.

Hi Spiker

Yes some mature late. Most all are anywayb rectangular horses, not to be confused with a long back. And there is, of course, were the long distance ability mostly comes from.

Children of some lines look if their head is too large for their body. ALL, AND I MEAN ALL, I have seen grew into it.

Kateefa has such a georgeous pedigree, and being a daughter of the great "shahloul"a race champion- (Judi Forbis always bragged over Shahloul too), she carries such excellent athletic blood.
Moftakhar (1947) is one of her sons, Shadi (1942, another race winner, and of course "alaa El din"-all Kuhaylan Rodans naturally, she being one.

I am so happy for you that you help perpetuating this excellent blood.

Hansi

Hello Usamah,

What a beautiful young mare and a beautiful photo. Do you have an action photo? I would love to see her movement as these lines produce such superb movements. Adl is a beautiful stallion and a top producer for the EAO. We owned his full sister *Nageia (now in Europe). *Nageia has outstanding movement. Judy Forbis also appreciated this mare as she has a *Nageia daughter in her programme, Ansata Najiba by Ansata Hejazi. I've always liked Al Aneed as well, one of the very last Alaa El Din sons left at the EAO..... I hope he is still alive! I have a photo of Shalabia that I took at the EAO in 1990, a smooth bodied, liver chestnut mare with a flaxen mane and tail. This is not a professional, "pretty", photo but it does show her conformation and type. Let me know if you would like me to e-mail a copy of this photo to you.

Judi

Hi everybody
here are some interesting statics-

Dwarka (1892) a Kuaylah- Desert Bred by the Anazeeh
Race winner on the flat, including the Hurrican Stake
Rawal Pindi Spring meeting in 1989.
Dam of Aldebar (1919)

Oct.25-29/1920
Shazada (1913)- a Kuhaylah Nauwaq (Motrub x Ruth Kesia
300 MIle Endurance champion at age 7
Robin (1908) a Saqlawi Jidraniyah-(Rohan x Merjana)
same ride- came in second- age 12

Belka (1912) a Saqlawi Jidraniyah-(rijm x Beryda)
same ride- came in third - age 8

Mustapha Kamel (1906- a Saqlawi Jidraniyah (Feysul x Mabsuta)
same ride- came in third- age 14

Sept.26-30/1921
Belka (1912) -a Saqlawi Jidraniyah -Rijm x Beryda)
300 mile ride- champion- age 9

Shazada (1913) a Kuhaylah Nauwaq (Motrub x Ruth Kesia-
same ride- came in sedond- age 8

Sept.25-29/1922
Shahzada (1913) a Kuhaylah ((Motrub x Ruth Kesia)
300 mile ride- champion- age 9

Shwaiman (1913) stallion- A Shuweyman- desert bred-
same ride- came in second at age 9

NOTE; IN 1923 "Belka,Shahzada and Robin" became flat racers
------------------------------------------------------------

Ramla (1901) (Astraled x Ridaa) SE mare-a Kuhaylah Rodan
champion of the "Cup of America" 1919
310 miles- carried 203 lbs. at aqge "18"

Atraled (1900) (Measoud x Queen of Sheba) an Abayyan Sharrak
marched from Oregon/USA to New Hampshire/USA
in "21 days" at "age 22". (see his daughter above)

Maidan (1869) DB x a Munifqi Hadrujiyah
Won three Steeple chase races in England against
English Thoroughbred at age "20" and a three mile
steeplechase race at age "25".

Flat RACERS;
----------
August 6/1923 One Mile-Arabians 15 hands and under
1st Belka - see details above -at age 11
2nd Shazahda " at age 10
3rd Kimaree (Mootrub x Maisuna)at awge 12- a Saqlawi Jidraniyah
4th Robin (Rohan Merjana by Mesaoud) at age 15

Sept.15/1928- One MIle and one quarter Stake race- Stallions-
At Portsmouth Races, on the Wymering Park Race Course,England
------------------------------------------------------------
1st Fedaan (1913) (Rashad I x Nejmeh) at age "15"- Saqlawi Jidran
2nd Sainfoin (1923) (Rasim x Safarjal) at age "5" Hamdani Semrie
3rd Ibn Kuhailan (1919 a desertbred Dahman Umm Amir- at age"9"

August 21/1929- One Mile and one quarter-Stake race
at Northolt Park, England
----------------------------------------------------

1st Fedaan (rashad I x Nejmeh) at age "16" saqlawi jidran
2nd Sainfoin (Rasim x Sarfarjal) at age "6" Hamdani Semrie
3rd Outlaw (1915) (Sheihan x Jellabieh III) at age "14" a Kuhaylan


September 25/1929- Stake Race- One and one Half mile
-----------------------------------------------------
1st Sainfoin (1923) see above -at age "6" Hamdani Simrie
2nd Fedaan (see above- D at age "16" Saqlawi Jidran
3rd Maid of the Moot (1921) (Shahzada x Queen Shakra) at age "8"
a Kuhaylah

I thought I wet all your appetit a bit. Just look what these Arabians have done, going 300 milers, than flat racing and look at their ages. And look at their production. I dont even call this "incredible" anymore, this is WHAT ARABIANS ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

Now--- which breeding farm will continue the trend, test their
Arabians, so that none of us have to hold their heads in shame.
I know that Shaqab Farm, Qatar (Bart) is right in there with both feet, let us hear of all the others who are too.

Have a wonderful evening and please all do SOME REAL TALL THINKING.

Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms

P.S. please forgive my typing, but it is not easy for me anymore.




q

Very interesting topic.

I am learning SO much in this forum

I did a little investigation and found out that Azizaa MA (whom I have asked about before) has Bint Risala in her Pedigree, through her mother AK Su Sharafa, by Moniet El Sharaf (Ibn Moniet El Nefous x Bint Bint Moniet- by Rashad Ibn Nazeer)
Rashad Ibn Nazeer is out of Yashmak who is out of BINT RISALA

Stine

Dear Judi of alabassiyah,
thank you for your remarks about sinana and yes i will love to have this picture emailed to me and thank you in advance,my email is uzalkazemi@hotmail.com sorry i dont have a pic. of her moving but of her son by almurtajiz

and a full body shot 2 or 3 years ago,definitely she is much better now

Very interesting discusion.
I found a few pictures to share about this family to, the first one's might be not so impressive. Horses were not in excellent condition - trained so consider that.

Anyhowmy question is, maybe you have an answer: were Bint Rissala was maybe not the most beautifull, her family later on is. Wich influence was brought in to make this change you think? Mares like Bint Om El Saad - Enayat, even Ameena and Kateefa look a lot nicer. Nice has nothing to do with performance I know but still!? Any ideas?

Om El Saad

Bint Om El Saad

Bint Om El Saad

Goo morning Bart

thank you for these photos. Here is a typical example as to how a horse can look from one photo to another.
I have the photos too.

What we can also see is the Influence of "Yashmak"(1941) as far as the croup is concerned.

While "Sameh" did not have a dished head, and usually put his head on even generations removed. it was still what we call a "Breedy" head, or Desert Bred Head. there were some exceptions, such as "Fawkia" (2965) out of "Mamlouka" who had a very beautiful head.
Yet Mamlouka herself did not always put a very dished head on, rather straight with a big jibba. But all were very athletic with a very good conformation.
In Judi Forbise's last book, many a horse is shown in their shape at that time. It is not quite easy to analyze the conformation.
I have some photos, where you would never think it is the horse, comparing it to others taken lateron when in good flesh. Itg helps, when seeing the horse in the flesh.

One has to aquire a bit of knowledge to analyze photos, which is always a difficult task.

Thanks again and have a nice day

Hansi

Dear Usamah,

What a lovely colt I think you should package him up and Federal Express him directly to me What is the breeding on his sire Al Murtajiz?

Judi I'll keep watching for a large Federal Express package

Hello Bart,

Unfortunately all these early photos look the same, even the ones of Sabah, Halima and Bukra. Not one shows a raving beauty.

You asked the question about which influence was brought in to make these mares look nicer. In my humble opinion I think it was the introduction of the blood of Mansour through his sons Nazeer and Sheikh El Arab. Of course not all improvements were made by just these two stallions but certainly within that time frame the use of Nazeer onto these mares gave us the strong foundation from which we work today. Nazeer was quite an influence and he was a sire that brought out the best of the mares that he was bred to giving them that overall Nazeer look while retaining the essential qualities of each mare.

Attached is a photo of Mansour and the dam of Nazeer (photos from Piduch)

Judi

Bart, Sorry, I lost Mansour! The above is Bint Samiha

I'll put Mansour here

Thanks Judi for these photos.

this is what breeders should see and examine. Look over how much daylight both are standing.
Well developed whithrs, girth and rearend, not to forget the good legs.
I walways felt that a "head" is easy to put on, an improvement on conformation is not. Now, if you have a georgeous mar, with bad underpinning,mutton whithrs, overbuild or table top croup, going to wide behind, etc.etc. one should really not breed her to another "Beautifully headed stallion" who has the same faults, and that enherited or inbred.

Pleae folks, dont misunderstand me, we also want a beautiful Arbian, looking like one, but most certainly want the qualities
the Arabian horse brings along. And it is the latter, which is lost in so many horses of today.

Of course, if I am wrong, then let us test these horses in stress performanes and see who survives, then earning the right to breed on. I said "right to breed on" and yes, that HASS TO BE EARNED
through performance. So it was done in the past.

Many a book has been written by expert Horsemen/woman, and indeed are an excellent guideline. I pay great attention to it. But I dont pay attention to books written by anybody, never been in the saddle
testing breeding stock, or at least some horses. Usually such books render on romance and fantasy or whatever motive.

We must direct our poeple to education material, which will further them, not hinder them. So many have quoted Lady ann Blunt, well, that was good, but she was an ardent rider/horsewoman and breeder.
Her experiences are of great value. So are those of Carl Raswan,
also he somtimes went of in a tangm.

I dont care what horse you own, ride or breed from, as long as you take into account FUNTIONABILITY, USEFULLNESS, and that the horse RESEMBLES ITS BREED.

We all love our horses, that has never been in dispute, but we can love them even more when they perform for us well.

Have a great day
Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms

Please show us more photos. thanks so much

Dear Bart

Please take into account that that many years ago, horss resembled more those desertbreds from Syria,Saudi,Iran and Iraq. Well they are the ancestors in our pedigrees.They were ridden daily long distances,etc. Many looked like a scelleton, yet were healthy and happy. Dates and Camel's milk often was their only feed.
120degree during the day when they sweated of calories/fat (fat,ha!)
and during the night often down to 40 degrees, shivering to keep warm and again losing calories. They did not have the grooming equipment either nor show shean, make up, etc.etc.
May be they did not even own a body brush.

Now viziulize the present day halter horses in such above condition,through what I stated above. You might get a shock.

So let us look what these horses did and produced. Let us never forget that the Arabian horse was the bedus survival and only the fittest bred on.

I feel, we need to examine the subjects fairly and with an open mind.

Have a great day AND GOOD RIDING.

Hansi
Serenity Arabian Farms

HI Uzamah
that is a beautiful foal and mare. Congrats.
Do you ride?

Have a great day
Hansi

Hi Hansi,

Looking into the pedigree and seeing either the actual horse or photos is invaluable to breeding a good horse. Knowing what each strain brings to the table, so to speak, is also invaluable.

Here is the Kuhaylah mare Nazeera (Nazeer x Malaka) of the Riyala family line as well as Mamlouka (Nazeer x Malaka). You can see the similarities from their sire Nazeer. Now look at Fawkia (Sameh x Mamlouka) and Romanaa II (Sameh x Nazeera) and you can see exactly what Sameh has contributed (smooth, strong bodies).

1st photo Nazeera (Nazeer x Malaka)

Hi Stine
But she also carries Al Nahr MOntego (1958) out of the Kuhayla Jellabiyah mare "Bint Fada (1961) .the stallion was National champion of Israel.

I knew him well, he lived one mile away from me. Mr Hassel used to tie him up behind his tractor and ran him for miles around his farm.
He was gorgeous and had a ahuge "bloody shoulder", very athletic, about 15,2-15,3 hands tall, excellent legs and overal conformation and lots of substance. He was also a US Natl. top ten Stallion. Your mare has a very nice pedigree with lots of athletes in it.

Hansi

Now the Kuhaylah mare Mamlouka (Nazeer x Malaka). Also the dam of Serenity Bint Mamlouka by Mashhour
(photo from Judy's fabulous book.. Authentic Arabian Bloodstock)

Now lets add Sameh

First Fawkia (Sameh x Mamlouka) photo J. Johnson

Sameh again in Romanaa II (Sameh x Nazeera) J. Johnson photo

Add back some more Nazeer through his son *Morafic

Bint Romanaa (*Morafic x Romanaa II)

Line breed to more Morafic and Sameh

Rummani (Gamal Al Arab x Bint Romanaa)

Add some Ansata blood and a bit more Morafic and you have Imperial Imdal


Imperial Imdal (Ansata Imperial x Dalia (*Morafic x *RomanaaII) Scott Trees photo

Thanks for the compliment, but she isn't mine (yet; )

You wrote:
"Hi Stine
But she also carries Al Nahr MOntego (1958) out of the Kuhayla Jellabiyah mare "Bint Fada (1961) .the stallion was National champion of Israel."

What do you mean by this I know this horse is in her pedigree. Does it make her "better" or "worse" or is that not what you were refering too?

Stine

Dear Stine
I am only pointing out some other good horses in her pedigree. Remember now,. also Ibn MOniet el Nefous, Bint Bint Moniet,were US Top Tens, and Moniet El Sharaf had championships.

The onyly way we can see how some of these lines come through is, if you were to post a photo here.
Hansi

OK Hansi - Thank you

Here are some pictures Of azizaa ma (Sheri, hope it's ok I've put them in here)

At 2 weeks:






At 7 months:




and a video
Mose Arabians

and also a video of the sire of Azizaa MA - Hehtif (Hatef x Schahara)

Mose Arabians

WOW - I love this horse

Stine

And video of the dam of Azizaa MA - AK SU Sharafa ((Moniet El Sharaf x PH Monsabba Su [x Al Nahr Montego])

Mose Arabians

And blood Percentages:

Su Sharafa's PedigreeBack to Mose Arabians Our Mares

Back to Mose Arabians Mares For Sale
Percentages for AK SU SHARAFA:
31.665% Crabbet/Blunt
28.7354% GSB (incl. Crabbet)
100% Egyptian
31.665% CMK
39.3986% Abbas Pasha Source
64.801% Abbas Pasha/Ali Pasha Sherif Source
100% BAHC Source (Blue List or BLUE STAR)
93.8232% BLUE STAR Source
31.25% Babson Egyptian
31.25% Early American Foundation (vol V)
31.25% American (thru vol VIII)
62.5% American Foundation (thru vol X)
62.5% American (thru vol XV)
4.79736% Mesaoud
3.36914% Ghazala
25% Nazeer
30.4688% Moniet El Nefous
7.14721% Blunt AK Ancestral Element
90.1184% Egypt I AK Ancestral Element
2.73438% Inshass AK Ancestral Element
100% Total AK Ancestral Elements *

Saklawi I sire line
El Dahma (Ali Pasha Sherif) dam line thru
*Bint Bint Sabbah ~
A Dahmah Najibah (Shahwaniyah)
Straight Egyptian
Al Khamsa and Asil
Blue List eligible
Heirloom/El Deree (Heirloom except El Deree)

Stine

I borrowed from the subject that Hansi started called "Which strains have been most successful", a quote from Bart and from Patrick as it pertains to the same subject that we are trying to discuss here.

Both Bart and PatRe: Which "strains" Have Been Most Succesful...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE (bartvb @ Feb 14 2004, 07:24 AM)
I think you are seriously wrong as history proved different but for those who are to ignorant to study the past and look at the breeders from about 100 - 200 years ago - not even that far and their culture it would show them different.

You are so correct Bart.

I'm not a strain expert but in the almost 20 years that I've been breeding Arabians (mainly Russian x Crabbet x Egyptian blood), besides looks, strains have been the only thing that I have looked up in a stallion for my (Koheilan Rodanieh) mares. I started in a time that Russian & Polish blood was all that matters and turned to an old Crabbet stallion that nobody remember. I bred him because I liked him when I had seen him but I went to see him only because he was bred pure in the strain Koheilan Rodanieh, otherwise I would never have bothered.

No matter what you are breeding Crabbet, Russian, ... they all trace to certain families and despite different appearances, the success of certain crosses are probably best explainable because of the similar strain. When you breed Saqlawi's over and over on a Koheilan strain, you will obviously get a saqlawi looking horse at the end but breed two such horses back and 9/10 you will get an 100% koheilan looking offspring again.

But then again, I'm not a strain expert but I have already seen enough to know that it influences breeding a lot.

Good morning Stine

I dont want to dampen your spirit, but I never looked or judged a horse by what ever percentage they have of anything.
I look at the horse, and whilst I remember many of their ancestors,
conclude what bred on. But the real test always came, when in the saddle. It also depends much how one mates the various strains, its like a gulash, the Hungarian, the German, the french and mine, all have the same spices in it, yet all tast different to each other.
Reason: when were they added and in what quantity.

thanks again and have a wondrful day
Hansi

Good morning

I am confused- ###### did you not write the last post? It shows abbasiyah! You repeated it on the other subject under your name.

Please advise
Hansi

Hansi,

I took the post written by ###### from the other topic and pasted it into this one as it pertains to what we are currently discussing. Hope that helps ease the confusion

Judi

Here is another famous Kuhaylah mare of the Riyala family, *Lancers Asmara, a grandaughter of Nazeera. This mare also has some offspring in Germany that have done quite well . I posted this mare as well as her daughter to show you the strength of the Sameh blood even into the 2nd and third generation.

It would be great to hear from others as to what they think of the Kuhaylan Rodan strain and the benefit of this blood within Straight Egyptian breeding.


The first photo is *Lancer's Asmara (Seef (Mashhour x Elwya) x Hebah (Ibn Hafiza x Nazeera).

This is the daughter of Lancer's Asmara, Raja Asmara by Ansata Raja Halim the full brother to Ansata Halim Shah.

Thaank you Judi for those lovely photos.

I knew "Lancers Amra" well. she was georgeous and an excellent mover. Of course, she is a daughter of the great "SEEF" (1959)
producer of US National winners.

I never forgot when I first saw "Seef" at the EAO in 1973.
My hair stood on end for amazement. I got goose bumps, and must have talked a mile a minute. He was something to see, every step was like a "Passage" an absolute uperb mover. He was georgeous. He did not have a dished head, but a beautiful huge jibba, clean throatlash,super legs and powerful rearend. He stood about 15,1 hands tall, with an immense girth and whithers. Any horseman/woman /equestrian would have wanted him.

Dr Marsafi asked me then" Hansi which mares do you think we should breed him to? I replied "all of them, then select what you want to have carry on of the foals". I wanted to buy him, - name your price affair- but he was not for sale.

This stallion had such regality, such incredible presence,and attitude, it was unreal. He had come in from the depot in the desert
in 1972, where he bred for some years domestic stock. After he was so successfull there, the EAO brought him in to breed from him over the SE mares. He left 30 daughters and 24 sons.

He was a Dahman Shahwan- going into the Bint El Bahrein (1898) line
and his sire was a Hadban Enzahi, namely "Mashhour" (1941, a race champion. He raced until age 17 years, then purchased by Dr V.Noli in south Africa, where she used him as a jumper,endurance horse until his death in 1962.the photo of him in the EAO book does not do him justice. I have one from Dr Noli, which shows a brillant bay,still very beautiful.

I must state, that Lancers Arabians were going basically for excellent conformation horses, and Stan White sr, who rode Assad to his US National Champion victory in English pleasure, cant stand a horse which cant do anything. But those SE's were also very beautiful, and some became also Halter champions and top Tens.

Have a nice day
Hansi

Hansi:

I have written you a private message - did you recieve it?

Stine