Went to see him & his family today, if you doubt there are Egyptians that can really move exceptionally, you should see him (and a few others like Rabdan)

One more

Other try

Who is the breeder of SENNEFER??????
And are the owner the van Nees family????
JONAS

Hi Jonas,

Yes the family Van Nes now owns Sennefer. Go to their homepage for more info on Flaxman Arabians.

Best regards,
Stephanie

See also the report about the additional stallion licensing (Premier beats them all by Large) on this forum for additional pictures + input from Helen van Nes

Mehlhorn family. They had a little herd - almost all are tracing to Shams Al sasama (Sarwat x Sameera) or her daughter Suhair by Mehanna and Omera (Shawki x Om el Arab), based on the horses I have seen, not many outside stallions besides Machmut and Madkour I were used.

There were apparently 2 full brothers: Sennefer and Sefir. They have also bred with Shamarksi, a son of Ibn Bint Inas out of Salome XI (a full sister of Sennefer) and Osiris II, a son of Madkour I x Omera.

Flaxman has bought most remaining horses out of a divorce case, according to Helen in horrible condition, ready to go to the butcher. Besides Sennefer they are keeping some exquisite mares (like for instance Senet-Nofret)

The 3 horses really closely related to Sennefer are for sale (might have been more but then they're gone already). 2 full sisters of Sennefer are remaining: Salome XI (already bred to Ibn Barrada) and Schardana (which Helen plans breeding to Fa Wanis), the 3rd one (Sefir x Salome XI) will be on my own website soon Reason why I really want to find out more about Sefir, Sennefer's full brother. Anybody? Any information on other products of Salome XI are welcome as well.

Sennefer himself is very, very impressive. According to Helen, an exceptional riding horse as well. And since the majority of the SE breeders in Europe seem to have Ansata and Katharinenhof bloodlines which seem to have crossed exceptionally with Madkour I, they have acquired with Sennefer probably one of the best outcrosses that is available for these lines.

Hi,

there are three full brothers. The third one, Serabit El Chadim, is presently for sale.


http://www.pferdezeitung.com/18772?sid=aba...2166b1079267676

Hello everyone,
Dear Patrick thank you very much for your wonderfull pictures of Sennefer which you took last saturday of him in our outdoor Paddock. He looks great and yes he is an egyptian that can really move. We have 3 beautifull daughters of Sennefer at out stud as well named Omera, Orenike and Senet-Nai. Have a look at Flaxman Arabians.nl.
Everyone very welcome to see him alive at his stable in Brecht.
Helen

Sennefer's full sibbling Salome XI at Flaxman Arabians.

Still looking to track down their full brother Sefir.

He seems to have dissapeared and has not been registered after his sale, according to the latest info of Helen, he has been sold to an endurance rider in Germany. Does the German endurance club have a website or otherwise contact information?

Below his daughter Schabaka (out of Salome XI), unfortunately not a very good picture

Sennefer und seine Herde. Den gings nicht gut. Es fand nur Vermehrung statt. Ohne artgerechte Haltung. Alle Pferde und Sennefer wurden sozusagen für einen Appel und ein Ei verkauft. Teilweise sind sie bei Pferdehändlern gelandet. Sennefer mag zwar ein Out-cross für manche Reinstägypterzüchter sein, aber er dient nicht dem Zuchtfortschritt. Aber wen interessiert das schon.

Warum soll er nicht dem Zuchtfortschritt dienen? Hallo???

Ein gast aus des Pfalz. : please bear in mind that this horse was 4th on the stallion licensing, and the best straight egyptian entered.

He impressed in type, movements AND in legs.

Till to date, there is no reason whatever to state that he won't serve the breed. Before making this statements, you might consider to give us some arguments ?

The search for his full brother Sefir goes on, latest information is that he was sold to an endurance rider who has gelded him. Not registered again in VZAP. Any endurance people in Germany who can find out more???

Judging purely from the photographs, I see a very decent typey horse with a lot to offer as an outcross, given that todays SE gene pool seems to be shrinking rapidly as more breeders concentrate on the same bloodlines. I am however a little confused as to the sire of the mare Schabaka, was it Sennefer or Sefir?

ein gast aus der Pfalz: your comments aren't worth wasting my time or anyone else's on.....

Mike

Mike,

Patrick bought Schabaka, a daughter of Sefir, full brother to Sennefer. She is out of Salome XI, also a full sister to Sennefer (hence a brother x sister cross).

Much linebreeding, as also the damline (Sameera) is heavily linebred : a Nazeer x Sid Abouhom cross on a Sid Abouhom x Nazeer.

Sigrid,

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Mike

Kenne die Pferde nicht nur von Bildern. Zu steile Hinterhand, Schulter nicht schräg genug, Unterhals, insgesamt zu kleine Linien, Schwächen im Fundament.
In der Tat auf den Fotos sieht er besser aus, als in seinem Züchterstall. Wie hat er auf der Körung in Holland vor 14 Tagen abgeschnitten?

Hallo Patrick,

Ihre Stute Schabaka stammt aus einer Vollgeschwisteranpaarung und Sie haben tatsächlich den Vollbruder des Vaters nochmal auf die Stute gelassen?

Haben Sie ein Foto von dem Nachkommen. Wird mich echt interessieren. Und auch warum Sie es getan haben.

Laut Sigrid war Sennefer Dritter.

1. Premier (von Monogramm) 86,20 Punkte
2. Orahn (von Khidar) 80,40 Punkte
3. Sennefer (von Madkour I) 76,80 Punkte

ein Gast aus der Pfalz :

Schabana is a product of a full brother & full sister, bred by Mehlhorn, Germany. She has been bought by Patrick last weekend.
As far as I know, she is going to be covered, NOT BY SENNEFER, but by Flaxman's Rabdan, a complete outcross.

Schabana DID bring a foal out of Sennefer (thus even more linebreeding), also bred by Mehlhorn, Germany, that was already sold by Flaxmans Arabians before Sennefer came into the news.

I never heared about Mehlhorn before. Seems he had a quit intresting breeding stock, but that he just continued crossing them on & on, not investing in outside horses. Luckily enough, the lines he had were from excellent quality, thus enabling to give very good results.. and an ideal outcross for all these modern lines.

No stallion is without faults.. Sennefer certainly isn't, but what about this : he was the BEST straight egyptian at this stallion licensing (which was in Belgium btw, not in Holland).

Another import from Germany, with already much offspring to the ground, of old & famous bloodlines, who was never put into discussion before, ended well.. hmmm.. quit on the bottom of the line.

Pictures of her, Sennefer and offspring of Sennefer are in this month's Araber Journal. Three more pictures of Sennefer are to be seen in the report on this forum about the Belgian stallion licensing.

An der Gast aus der Pfalz :

I'm sorry to say you are completely mistaken about Sennefer's conformation. Helen told me they bought the horses in horrible condition, ready to go to the butcher. I can however imagine your impression of the horses in their bad condition when you have seen them under such circumstances was different and explains your comments. This reminds me of Raswan in his book "Trinker der Lüfte" were he describes his first long journey in the desert searching for the oriental horse he had memories of from old paintings or drawings in Europe. He told one of the sheyks how dissapointed he was in the bedu horses (skin over bones & not well fed) which couldn't match the ideal he had in mind. When he arrived later in Damascus, he was brought to stables were the concerning sheykh had put some horses on rich food so that they could be sold. He then discovered that the stallion he had been riding all this time was in fact his dream horse when he was no longer skin over bones.

As for Schabaka, like Sigrid stated, she was bred to Sennefer by her previous owner in Germany who clearly no longer really cared about these horses. I have seen a large part of the Mehlhorn herd at Flaxman and I have found them all very consistant. There was another inbred foal by Sennefer out his full sister Schardana and this foal was a carbon copy of Schardana (extreme good conformation, pretty not really exceptional head just like Schardana) and ... chestnut ... courtesy of Mehanna. The colt foal of Sennefer x Schabaka was also chestnut.

This brings us to the part why these horses are so interesting (for me at least) compared to most other Madkour I products : the combination of Madkour I x Mehanna x Sarwat on one of the strongest damline's you can imagine. These bloodlines not only produced pretty horses, that the Madkour I's have done well on stallion performance tests has been stated before under "Opinion on Madkour I", Mehanna is a stallion who has won the stallion performance test with brio - also known for the excellent performance of his 2nd generation offspring in long distance for Schiefferregg and other studs and Sarwat is a stallion who, if I'm not mistaken has still participated at a race when he was well in his 20-ties (during Asil Cup or Baden Baden I believe). Therefore, strong inbreeding (once) on these lines doesn't seem to be that stupid compared what a few other - more renowned - German breeders are doing, even more intens (considering the inbreeding is less direct but goes on for multiple generations) with Egyptian horses that have almost no performance ability/references in their pedigree. Of course putting again a full brother on a brother x sister mare is stupid. This was not done by Mehlhorn (the original breeder of the herd) but by the Schroders, the family that has taken over the Mehlhorn horses and it was out of his divorce case that Flaxman and others have bought horses.

I have selected Flaxman's Rabdan for Schabaka, not because of his black colour but because he's one hell of a horse. When you see this horse you want to throw a saddle on and ride away. He has the best back I have seen on an Arabian stallion, very powerfull backhand, good hip & legs, he can outtrot the best Russian stallions any time, pretty although not exceptional head, big (1m58). He's a complete outcross for Schabaka with sire line to Tuhotmos and his dam is a mixture of old Ansata, Gleanloch and Babson blood. Unfortunately he's a bit heavy in the neck but Schabaka is quite refined there and hopefully because of her inbreeding she will dominate here. Anyway, because it's a total outcross, it is impossible to predict what the result will be. I consider this in the first place the ultimate test to find out how dominant Schabaka's influence will be in her foals.

I'm sure Flaxman will be showing a part of the family this season and future will tell what their contribution to the breed will be.

Have a nice day

A better picture of her dam Salome (sis' of Sennefer)

And of Flaxman's Rabdan, the stallion I have used to breed Schabaka with

Schabaka just after arrival yesterday.

Getting introduced

This horses bear a strong resemblence to Sarwat. They look like they could stand some miles under saddle and I like that. Most of the Madkour I horses suffered from loss of pigmentation and this ones clearly to see have full pigmentation which is an achievement in itself given the fact that they are very typey examples of the Madkour I line. The combination of Madkour I and Mehanna is somewhat unique and the extreme dryness of Mehanna and his performance capacity is a wonderful match to the extreme Dahman type of Madkour I. I hope they bred on properly.

Interesting comment Monika, I was the combination of Madkour I x Mehanna + Sarwat that interested me as they were known for their exceptional ability under saddle. Something I noticed yesterday with Schabaka is that she takes an enormous long strides in step, while she was walking I had to do speedwalking almost running to keep up - never encountered that before. The previous owners in Germany did a lot of inbreeding with them and Mehanna's chestnut colour re-appeared several times although the parents are all greys. None of the other horses in the group seem to have pigmentation losses either.

Do you have any pictures of Sarwat? I have only found one in Araber Journal at very old age and ridden in native costume so not revealing much besides his head.

Below a body shot of Salome, in the group she perhaps resembles Sarwat the most whilst her full sister clearly ressembles more Madkour I. Her daughter Schabaka is bigger and a bit longer (with a very long neck, wondering if that doesn't come from Sarwat as well)

Bodyshot of Rabdan, a stallion very much ressembling some of his Babson ancestors. I'm very curious about the possible nick with Schabaka. Salome has been bred to Ibn Barrada.

What is the full name of this stallion "Rabdan" , and what is his pedigree for at least a few generations, please. I would be particularly interested to learn what Babson ancestry he possesses. Thank you.

Flaxman's Rabdan is by Niyashin (Khaled el Nile x Asra Nahema out of Waseem Serasaaba (Waseem Montaal x Bint Serasaab)

Hallihallo.
Ich habe gerade den Thread hier gefundenn.
Mehr durch zufall.
Ich suche (wenn vorhanden) Nachkömmlinge de
Hengstes Serabit el chadim.
Habe den kleinen vor 3 Jahren gekauft und suche nun
nach "seiner" Familie.

Bin für jeden Tip dankbar.
Gerne auch Bilder an meine Mail.

Liebe grüße vom Niederrhein.
Tim

I would like to know what became of Sennefer int he meantime? Is he still in the Netherlands?

I would also love to hear some more about his daughter Omera out of Bint Bint Omera!

wie's aussieht ist er immer noch bei Flaxman Arabians:
flaxman /sennefer
sennefer

Hallo Tami!

Danke für den Link. Allerdings steht er dort auch unter "Sales", deshalb war ich mir nicht sicher, ob er nicht inzwischen doch schon verkauft wurde.

I would really love to hear more about Sennefer and his get.
I must confess that I never heard of him before so it would be quiet intersting to further information.

Although for me he's one of the best SE stallion standing in Belgium, I don't think he is breeding a lot. This is full-sister SALOME XI and her daughter SCHABAKA (sired by Sennefers full-brother)

Wow. They can move, I would say!
Thank you!

Hello Imke,

Did send you a PM.

Greetings,Dick.

Zahir, a yearling out of Sennefer's full sister Salome XI

Kadir, full brother of the above

Hello trescastillos,

I would like to see some more pictures. What a good looking boy! Who's his sire?
These lines are really interesting and I can't wait to see Sennefer in flesh!

Best wishes,

Imke

They are sired by the Kaisoon grandson Vashara Chamal (exported to Germany earlier this year) x out of Sennefer's full-sister Salome XI
Click to view attachment X Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
Zahir, yearling born July 2007, very much in the type of his sire, very powerful but lean and big colt, will grow-up be around 160 cm like his sire

Click to view attachment
Kadir, born July 2008, more in the type of his dam, very powerful more heavier in chest and bone, probably less big than his sire

By the way: Has anyone got a picture of Suhair, Sennefer's dam?

I would also be very interested to see pictures of Suhair, Shams el Sasama and Sameera

No pics available???

Does anyone know where Sennefer is located right now?

Sennefer is with Amana Arabians Germany

see him at http://www.amarna-arabians.de/index.php/he...e/sennefer.html