Judi Forbis sent me the following mail.
I wanted to wait until now to post it here, because
on another Forum there was a little quiz about
who the new Ansata stallion would be. I did not
want to destroy it.

But here we go now with the first-hand information from Judi:

"We have a new stallion on lease that was not here at the seminar.
Recently we went to Albuquerque for the U.S. Nationals to receive the
Arabian Breeders Association Award for 2002 (presented in Center Ring
along with Bazy Tankersley , who received it for 2003). While there
we visited with Burt Melton and went to his farm, as we usually do when
we are in Albuquerque. We had admired his and Sherry's beautiful Ansata
Ibn Halima daughter, Halima El Hamra, for many years, and they had
retained her colt by Ruminaja Ali. Now a mature stallion, we were
extremely attracted to him. Appropriately named RA Ali Halim, one can
see some of the Ali in him, but he is much more remindful of Ibn
Halima in type, size and carriage - beautiful well-shaped head with big
dark and expressive eyes, expansive nostrils, excellent well-shaped
ears, well-shaped well-set neck, excellent topline, marvelous high tail
carriage (set right at the top of the croup), good legs, and a very
kind and sweet disposition. A dark dapple grey turning fleabitten, he
is now on lease to Ansata for some years and we look forward to showing
him to breeders and admirers in the future. He has no foals, so it will
be interesting to see how he will do as a sire. The Ali-Halima cross has
done exceptionally well in the past. He is unshown, but as a show
horse he should definitely succeed."

Photos will follow as soon as possible!
Anyone out there who had seen him?????

This is exciting. The cross of Alidaar and Ruminaja Ali over Ansata bred mares worked very well in the past for the breeders of the Middle East and Germany. I am curious how the results may be at the source, at Ansata.


©Erwin Escher
SHADWANAH by CLASSIC SHADWAN (by ALIDAAR)
out of DALIMA SHAH by ANSATA HALIM SHAH

Bred and owned by Rothenberg Stud - Germany

Liberty-Champion Reserve Kreuth 1998
Class winner Marbach 1998 & Baden-Baden 1999
Junior Champion Filly Egyptian Classic Show, Netherlands 1999
National Junior CHampion Filly Reserve, Germany 1999
Liberty-Champion Mare, Kaub 1999

European Junior Champion Filly, Egyptian Event Europe 1999

Halima El Hamra is the dam? Is she a bay one? Deep in my head a bell rings...

I can imgaine he is a beautiful individual. If Judith Forbis chose him, he has to be something!

RA Ali Halim, by Ruminaja Ali out of Halima El Hamra,
Halima El Hamra is by Ansata Ibn Halima out of Bint Bint Hoyeda,
Bint Bint Hoyeda is by Ibn Moniet El Nefous out of AK Bint Hoyeda,
AK Bint Hoyeda is by Ibn Hafiza out of Hoyeda,
Hoyeda is by Morafic out of Mouna.
So he is Saklawi Jedran Ibn Sudan by strain. There are no pics of him as of yet.

Probably a very beautiful individual but like all Ansata products = Morafic x Ans Ibn Halima blood. Does anyone know if Ansata has ever succesfully used a real outcross stallion?

Jens, you are too good to be true.
Yes, Halima El Hamra (Ansata Ibn Halima x Bint Bint Hoyeda)
is a bay mare; she was bred and is owned by Rinconada Arabians
of Dr. and Mrs. Melton, who used to stand the famous
stallion Nabiel for a while.

I saw Halima El Hamra there - but quite frankly -
it was so long ago I do not remember her in detail.
As mentioned above, she is by Ansata Ibn Halima
out of Bint Bint Hoyeda.

Here she is:

Okay, here we have her dam, the mare Bint Bint Hoyeda
(Ibn Moniet El Nefous x AK Bint Hoyeda). She also was
owned by Rinconada. In her youth she went Scottsdale Top Ten,
was Regional Reserve CHampion Mare and a Class A Halter Champion.

Entering AK Bint Hoyeda (Ibn Hafiza x Hoyeda),
a bay mare, born in 1974 at Bentwood Farms
and owned by Windmere Farm in Virginia.

Photo by Johnny Johnston.

Photo by Johnny Johnston

And finally we have the chestnut mare Hoyeda
(Morafic x Mona), imported from Egypt by Bentwood Farms.
She was born in 1963 and was the dam of such a notable
stallion like Moniet El Nafis (by Ibn Moniet El Nefous).

Hoyeda's dam Mona (Mouna in Europe) was described
by Judith Forbis in her new book "Authentic Arabian Bloodstock II"
as the most beautiful daughter of Moniet El Nefous.
You can read the complete evaluation of Mona by CLICKING HERE!

So, now we have all the females in RA Ali Halim's
tail female line at one glance.
The sires are well-known. We all know RUMINAJA ALI,
Ansata Ibn Halima, Ibn Moniet El Nefous and Ibn Hafiza.
But don't forget - it's the mares that count at least 50%....

Delightful! Judi had mentioned earlier that she might be leasing a new stallion...I think I may have found a perfect outcross for my double-Nabiel granddaughter! I really like the Magidaa blood, and of course, the Ibn Halima blood, but to find a beautiful Ali son with a kind temperament - that is a bonus!

Does ANYONE have a photo of this stallion? Lucky for me, I don't live far from Ansata!

Nancy P.

Nancy, what does this mean "a beautiful Ali son with a kind temperament"

Guest,

It means that he's beautiful, he has a great pedigree, he's an Ali son, and he has a kind disposition - the total package. Ms. Forbis, in her letter, mentioned that the stallion has, "a very
kind and sweet disposition" -by the way, who ARE you? Are you signing in as a "Guest" for some particular reason?

Nancy

still wondering what you meant by "but to find a beautiful Ali son with a kind temperament - that is a bonus!" sounds like you believe that a kind temperament is rare in the Ali line

I had close contact with two Ali sons and one Morafic son, all three were very selfconfident indiviuals who knew what they want and how to get the message through. That doesn't mean they were not kind, the contrary is the truth. They are stallions that like to rule but at the same time will die for you if it would be necessary. The Morafic horses as a whole are more "horse" than the Ibn Halima group but that doesn't mean you can't them handle. But sometimes a newbie could be intimidated by them.

Guest - Hmmmmm....it seems to me that If you truly wanted to know what I meant, you would read and accept what I said in my previous post.

I'm still wondering who you are and now, why you seem so intent on making so much of my remark...Is there some reason I SHOULD think think that a kind temperament is rare in the Ali line?? That's what it sounds like YOU mean.

I don't know about you (literally, since you continue to cloak your identity ), but to me, a kind disposition in addition to beauty and an outstanding pedigree is always a bonus.

Guest, dear, if you have something you want to say, then by all means - say it, but if you're looking for an argument, you won't get it from me.

Myself, I intend to drive down the road to Ansata to see this very interesting stallion.

Guest_Guntram - that is almost exactly the way Janice Bush described Ruminaja Bajhat (my all time favorite stallion) to me - bold, and full of himself, but not a bit mean.

Regards,

Nancy P.

Reply to a previous post if Ansata was ever succesfull with using an outcross: What do you call Prince Fa Moniet and Jamil then? Are they not outcrosses and were they not succesfull?

Judi, is indeed up and top from this young stallion, I received a few days ago a similar message from her. We wish her all the best in using this young horse. Looking forward to see pictures to.

Bart.

Hey Nancy P. This Matt Bergren, I owned Ruminaja Ali. I am curious to know what you are trying to say? I hope it is not another cheap shot taken at my stallion? I would like you to explain yourself, because in my eyes it does not read well. Matt Bergren

I think at the time they used Jamil, you could still call this linebreeding to Nazeer since most of their horses had Nazeer only a few generations away and since most Ansata mares have a lot of Morafic blood (or his sister) Prince Fa Moniet can hardly be called an outcross stallion either.

I would find it interesting to know if they ever used a real outcross style Maksous or Tuhotmos and what the results were?

Hi Matt,
I was surprised to know that anyone had taken any cheap shots at Ali. I am very sad to hear of it. He was magnificent, you two had such a wonderful kinship. I only have the video go by but it seems it was enough to see the two of you together. Wish I had known the great Ali. We will always have the legacy he left behind to remind us of his incredible contribution!!!
Debbie

Hello Matt,

I honestly do NOT know where you are getting this?? I wasn't "trying to say" anything. I said what I said, and I HAVE explained myself - not once, but TWICE. I think you're being more than a little over sensitive. Maybe you are having a bad day or a bad week?? Otherwise, WHY would you seem so determined to read something more into what I said??? Is this a publicity stunt? Please go back and read my last 2 posts...or ALL of my posts. I have YET to say ONE bad word about ALI - even when repeatedly PROVOKED.

For the record, I have ALWAYS admired Ali AND his get. In looking for a stallion for my own SE mare, I have been searching for one with Ali blood that does not come through The Minstril, NOT because of any fault of that beautiful horse himself - who lives near me - but because it's fun to search for something that few people have or know about yet.

What are you talking about - "ANOTHER cheap shot..."? It looks to me like YOU are the one determined to take a cheap shot at me - WHY? Mr. Bergren, I don't appreciate your tone, and I don't deserve your ire. Perhaps you are angry with someone else, and a "nobody" like me is simply an easy target for your anger? I don't see you castigating Judi Forbis for her comment that her new Ali-bred stallion has "a very kind and sweet disposition"... as well you SHOULDN'T. I think it's pretty common knowledge that not every horse, much less stallion, of any breed has a disposition kind enough to make SPECIAL mention of it. When one DOES have that sweet character, I think it is a wonderful thing - especially for someone like me, who handles all her own horses.

It's almost like you are trying to MAKE me say something bad about Ali. What I wrote originally was a COMPLIMENT. For some reason, you are CHOOSING to misinterpret my remarks even AFTER I have clearly and simply explained them. If there ARE bad rumors about his disposition, why don't you take this opportunity to enlighten people about the reality as opposed to the rumors? I suspect this is an OLD issue, before my time, but since you owned him, you could educate immediately instead of wasting time seeking an argument where there isn't one. If you are looking for a fight, perhaps you should find someone who DOESN'T like Ali.

And to Spectator: I am seriously considering breeding my double-Nabiel granddaughter (triple *Sultann and heavily linebred Sameh) to either Judi's Ansata Qasim (Farres x MB Moneena - not much Ansata there) or now possibly RA Ali Halim because I think the combination of Ansata and Ali blood would be a good outcross for my mare. What do you think?


My mare as a yearling.

Nancy Pierce

Nancy, who is the sire and dam of your lovely mare? I was suprised to see she is bay, most of the Nabiel get I have seen have been gray. Very pretty!
Iris

Thank you, Iris! She is by RA Jahim (Nabiel x *Masarra by Tuhotmos) and out of KA Sultan Nabiyaa (Nabiel x Diyaa by *Sultann), and I love her - she is such a sweetheart! I know you didn't ask, but she'll foal to Makhnificent KA in February, so I'm already on the hunt for her next "husband".

Here's another photo of her.

Regards,

Nancy P.

Hi Debbie,
Nice to hear from you.
This is what is on my mind.
Nancy P posted " But, to find a Ali son with a kind tempermant, that is a bonus". In my opinion that is an attempt to malign Ali. A guest then asked Nancy P what she meant by this post. Nancy P. is trying , in my opinion, to put her attempt to malign Ali on the guest. I have had many Ali sons with great temperments! So I would like Nancy P. to explain her comments to everyone, before this gets out of hand! No one knew Ali or the knows the Ali line better than my Uncle & I. If someone would ask a straight forward question seeking knowledge of the line? We would be happy to give anyone a straight forward answer. Once again this happens on a forum when someone post a comment that has not been fully thought through a we get side tracked off the most important topic here, that is, an Ali son standing at Ansata! That is exciting news! Ansata & The Bergren Family exchanged shipped semen of Prince Fa Moniet & Ansata Hejazi for Ruminaja Ali 's, during Ali's last breeding season, but unfortunately no foals were produced. Ali then past on & we just ran out of time. So, I am sure Judy is very excited about the upcoming breeding season. The Bergren's wish Ansata nothing but the best! Matt & Jim Bergren

Why always assume something that was not said? Nancy said no bad thing about Ali. She even defended him and his entire line. Read what she wrote about his full brother Ruminaha Bahjat. "Guest" seems to love to tease us here andyou, Matt, are the one who was caught by him. Again, Nancy didn't say A NEGATIVE WORD ABOUT ALI. Excuse me, but this is getting ridiculous.
And that Morafic stallions have fiery expression and are no puppies is something taht make them even more impressive! They have not a mean bone in them but know like to make a show. I think that is what Nancy and other said. They are lions, not puppies - but lions with a heart of gold.
Can we speak serious again without assumptions? Would be great.

Regarding the outcross stallions at Ansata. Of course Judith Forbis tried outcross stallions; she had Maard (pure Babson breeding), she used Dorian Shah El Shams (with little success), she used Ibn El Mareekh (a nice stallion was born; I saw him as a youngster but don't know what became of him) and she used Tuhotmos - Ansata El Wazir was born, very athletic stallion but not the Ansata type of horse. She used Thee Desperado (well, no outcross but rather "outside" stallion) but the mares didn't settle and finally Imperial Madheen with outcross blood via Messaoud and Madinah bringing in the lines of Mohga and Mouna in the tail female line, which she had not in her original herd - Ansata Sokar was born, used as a sire on a limited scale today.

Prince Fa Moniet indeed provided some new liones for her, bringing in Babson blood again which she had only in her Nile family and again the Mouna/Mona blood. And a new input came with the double Morafic blood which she only had with Ansata Shah Zaman so far.

Hello Diana,
Yes, we would LOVE to speak serious without assumptions, as long as what is spoken is clearly stated.
If Nancy P. would have posted her last post to all of us, first - We would have had no doubt of what she was trying to say. But, as I read Nancy P first post, It seemed to me to imply a tempermant problem in the Ali line, and that I will take issue with. Her accusations as to " publicity stunts & frame of mind or bad day" We choose to ignore! (LOL)

Matt & Jim Bergren

I would love to hear about any Ansata horses from the Ibn El Mareekh cross! Ibn El Markeek was the horse that first sparked my interest in Egyptians. I believe there was an Ansata colt at the Event a year or so ago sired by MFA Mareekh Amir, but I may very well be mistaken--I don't have my program right in front of me.

Lysette,

Judi has a 2 year old colt right now that is by Farres, who of course is out of a MFA Mareekh Amir daughter. A tall, typey colt, his name is Ansata Qasim, and he did very well at this year's event.

Nancy P.

Hello Everyone,

After spending the afternoon in the barn, I came back to the forum with a clearer mind. After re reading the posts, I realized now, that perhaps I reacted to swiftly to what I initially perceived as an insult towards a stallion that meant the world to me (And continues to) I accept that Nancy P. meant nothing derogatory with her comments. I hope the readers here can understand how someone can feel so deeply for a horse that they can be somewhat thin skinned were they are concerned.

I am a man who will admit when he is wrong & appologize for his mistakes. I would like to make that apology now to Nancy & anyone else I may have offended. I hope you can all look past the previous posts and see the man behind them.... A man who loves his horses. ( Not being on a high one )

Sincerely
Matt Bergren

P.S. I couldn't be more happier to see a Ali son stand at Ansata! I am sure we will see great things come from this.

Thank you, Matt. Apology accepted. I truly do love the Ali line of horses, and I agree - RA Ali Halim is an exciting addition to Ansata's stallion roster!

Best regards,
Nancy P.

Oh Whoopeee! Just what I wanted to hear from both of you, Nancy and Matt. Speaks volumes for the character and integrity of BOTH of you.

To Outcross: Ansata also used Arabest Kalid for the 1994 season (Ansata Ibn Sudan x Ruminaja Alia). Kalid was very lightly shown and was not well known, but his get have been impressive. The resulting foals have turned out to be phenomenal, but all (or most) were sold overseas. Kalid himself is now in South Africa, and I think Judi wishes she had used him more extensively .

To Nancy P.: Some of the Trapp's finest horses resulted from a cross between Nabiel blood and that of El Halimaar...an option you might want to consider !

With this recent announcement and in the continuation of the great Gleannloch/Ansata history ahd tradition, I wish all for the best for RA Ali Halim and the Ansata mares. We also hope to continue this tradition with our up and coming bay Ruminaja Ali son, Aspecial Ali, bred by Matt Bergren.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

wow! how exciting! I always like the Ali/Ansata crosses, and this just tickled me pink to read that announcement.

Thanks, bettyk. I will definitely do some investigating along those lines. I liked El Halimaar himself (LOVE his pedigree!!), but I haven't always liked his get. However, I must confess I haven't really studied them closely. Don't know if I've ever seen an El Halimaar/Nabiel cross - hmmmmmmmm...thanks for the advice!

Spiker - VERY pretty! Of course, I'm more than a little partial to the Ali-bred BAYS (Anaza El Farid, Ali Jamaal, to name a couple). Good luck with him!

Nancy P.

FOOTNOTE: YES, I have seen that cross - Abraxas Halimaar and several others that were very nice horses - some of the Trapp horses I remember liking from YEARS ago; I just didn't realize they were sired by El Halimaar.

Thank you! He is a sweet boy and enjoys having people scratch his neck and back. We are excited about him and plan to show and showcase him. We'll keep you abreast of his progress.

Here is one of the most beautiful examples of the
Ruminaja Ali/Ansata/Hanan cross that worked so well
in Qatar:


RN AJEEBA (photo by Carola Toischel)

She is bred and owned by All Rayyan Stud and was Reserve
National Champion Mare in 2002. One of Bart's favourite mares.
She is by Ruminaja Ali out of the Ansata Halim Shah daughter Bint Amal.

Another beautiful horse of that cross is Dana Al Rayyan:


photo by Carola Toischel

She is by Ali's full brother Alidaar out of Ansata Samaria by Jamil,
another combination of these three bloodlines.

Sorry Oliver, little mistake the above picture is Al Aangha Al Rayyan by Alidaar x Ansata Majesta (Ansata Halim Shah x Ansata Malika by Jamil) So basically the same yes. Two different horses tough.

Alidaar as a full brother to Ruminaja Ali has worked marvelously here at Al Rayyan on Halim Shah daughters and even Salaa El Dine daughter. I actually think that Judy (who tried before Ruminaja Ali blood and on her saying not so succesfull) got the taste back after seing that it works so well here! She adores Al Aangha. But let me ad a little to her comment please do not forget she choose this colt only for the Ali blood, she choose him just as much or maybe even more so because hes out of an Ibn Halima daughter going back to Moniet El Nefous - one of her all time favourites.

Bart - Al Rayyan Farm.

This is RN Ajeeba by Ruminaja Ali x Bint Amal (Ansata Halim Shah x Ken Amal by Mohafez and Hanan)

Senior champion mare Qatar Int. 2003.

This is Mansoura Al Rayyan - full sister in blood to RN Ajeeba but with Alidaar x Bint Amal, instead of Ruminaja Ali.

Matt,

Thank you for not being one of those people who can't admit they are wrong.

Hello Guest,

I am wrong on allot of things! (LOL)

Matt Bergren

Hi Matt,

It just gets very tirsome to see breeders and other horse lovers fighting sometimes. When we should all be concentrating on one thing, the horses! lol

It takes a bigger person to admit they are wrong, even if they don't believe it. I agree that she may not have worded that right but it happens.

I once had a half sister to Ali and to this day, she is favorite mare. She was soooo typy and just gorgeous. I compare all new mares to her. He was lovely and I'm sure you miss him.

Right On Silver!!!
See Ya
Matt

Matt Said:

Hey Matt!

Well..you are wrong in being wrong! If there is one thing I have learned, from visiting this site, is that you are never wrong on Ali...YOU REALLLY LOVED THAT HORSE and it is noticeable. It is amazing for me to witness, that no matter how much time passes...all roads lead to Ali.

Ralph

Yes Ralph - and it seems that with every passing year more and
more breeders worldwide come to this conlusion ... all roads lead to Ali!

As the owner of a stallion who is by Thee Desperado and out of an Ali mare, I feel I am very qualified to make a comment on Ali bred horses and their dispositions. Especially since our stallion is a throw back to Ali if there ever was one. When I first saw the video of Ali from Bergrens, I was amazed at the resemblence between our stallion and Ali. Ali passed on his charecteristics so strongly that it is *spooky*. I have thought that Matt, should he ever see him, would agree.
I see over and over how Ali has PROVED himself to be one of the great legends of the Arabian breed, kind of right in there with Nazeer. So if anyone should want to make these digs about dispositon, go right ahead (not you Nancy). But I would also say that they have no concept about the Arabian horse either.
Since I personally never *knew* Ali, I can tell you about my stallion and let you decide for yourself how to catagorize. He appraises every situation and every person he comes in contact with boldly. He fears nothing. He approaches every new challenge with zest and vigor. He definitely lets you know how he feels about what he is doing. He IS spirit and charisma all wrapped up in alabaster. Yet he lets the barn kittens sleep in his hay and will not step on them in his stall. When his first filly was born, she insisted on visiting him before going out to her paddock so he could nuzzle her nose. My daughter feeds him and wraps her arms around his neck for a hug. He is an entity unto himself, like no other horse I have ever owned. Self confident is a phrase already used and very applicable.
And he has passed this on to his filly and hopefully the next one. If this is what Ali does for his offspring, I for one welcome it, make no explanations for it. Owning an Ali bred horse is like owning the wind. I just catch my breath every time I go to the barn and thank my lucky stars.
Now, with that off my chest, I can't wait to see a picture of Ansata's new stallion.

Larry, your stallion sounds like the kind of horse we all dream of owning. Even reminds me of the Black Stallion books and the very special relationship between Alec and "The Black". It also sounds like a wonderful example of what sets Arabians apart from other breeds - the "almost human" element.

In trying to explain to non-Arab owners why I love this breed so much, I've often found myself telling listeners about how intelligent, how sensitive, and of course, how beautiful Arabians are. Invariably, I end up telling them my horses seem almost human - they aren't animals I OWN; rather, they are friends whom I've gotten to know.

Maybe I'm being pompass when I say this, but I truly think it takes a special kind of person to own an Arabian - any Arabian - because these horses are so intelligent and so sensitive. And I can say, almost without exception, that all the people I've ever known who thought Arabs are crazy or wild were individuals who either never encountered an Arab or were the kind of people who were, shall we say, less than sensitive as human beings.

What is your stallion's name, and where is he located?

Regards,
Nancy P.

I will be happy to e-mail you that information! Agree totally with what you said about the type of person that it takes to *own* an Arabian. While I am all for promoting the Arabian, I do not think they are the horse for everyone. The person has to be more sensitive and in tune to the horse. You can ask an Arabian to do anything and they will do it for you, but you can't force them to do anything.