Hello!
Let's talk about Plum Grove Farm! I am a total newbie to these breeding-program-discussions and I would like to know more. As I understand Hansi, Plum Grove/Gleannloch/Serenity breed/have bredquite the same type of more athletic horses.
So, who were the owners of Plum Grove?
Leading sires?
Broodmares?
Again, pros & cons?
[Most interesting for me; my little gelding combines Gleannloch/Plum Grove/Ansata. And it's true: he has a wonderfull caracter, (which he passed on to his 8 foals he sired), you can ride him everywhere you want and as long as you like (I once went 6 hours up and down through the hills in the morning, then another 4 in the afternoon. No poblem for him! - yes, I am proud!!!) BUT I think he would'nt stand a chance in the showring; that's why he has been gelded by the former owners IMO: "Why keep a stallion that cannot be shown succesfully?" - But that's abother discussion....]
Full Version: Plumgrove Fram
Good morning Erna and all
Martin Loeber , Palletine, IL, USA imported Ramses Fayek (Fayek) in 1970, who also became as US National Top ten champion. Martin, then already in his 60ties, rode him every day. I had him in my quaratine for over two month and worked with him daily. He was a delight, very beautiful ,very athletic, tall and elegant and a sweetheart. His face was not "concave" but he had a beautiful large jibba and a musculan stallion face and a beautiful eye.
He produced many champions.
the Plumgove horses by enlarge very tall and had substance. the many I have seen were excellent movers.
Martin also had some polish lines and through Amurath Czortane produced a number of champions as well.
These horses usually got the prefix "Amurath".
In 1970 he also imported "Set El Dar (1962) by El Sareei x Afaf, carrying Skowronek blood. she was also in my quarantine and foaled there Ramses El Dar (1970).
Along also came with her her son "Saroukh"++ (1968) a LOM champion and super athlete by Ibn Maisa. He would stand for ten or more minutes on his hind legs looking over his stall to watch me training other horses. Set El dar was about 14,2 hands tall, dark bay and had a 24 inch overreach with her hind legs over front leg imprints.Absolutely amazing mare. She was a hadbah enzahiyah, very elegant high quality mare.
Martin was a top horseman, a top rider, and produced horses which could be ridden. Gene Reichert showed most all his show horses to success.
Have a nice day and Happy Easter
Hansi
Martin Loeber , Palletine, IL, USA imported Ramses Fayek (Fayek) in 1970, who also became as US National Top ten champion. Martin, then already in his 60ties, rode him every day. I had him in my quaratine for over two month and worked with him daily. He was a delight, very beautiful ,very athletic, tall and elegant and a sweetheart. His face was not "concave" but he had a beautiful large jibba and a musculan stallion face and a beautiful eye.
He produced many champions.
the Plumgove horses by enlarge very tall and had substance. the many I have seen were excellent movers.
Martin also had some polish lines and through Amurath Czortane produced a number of champions as well.
These horses usually got the prefix "Amurath".
In 1970 he also imported "Set El Dar (1962) by El Sareei x Afaf, carrying Skowronek blood. she was also in my quarantine and foaled there Ramses El Dar (1970).
Along also came with her her son "Saroukh"++ (1968) a LOM champion and super athlete by Ibn Maisa. He would stand for ten or more minutes on his hind legs looking over his stall to watch me training other horses. Set El dar was about 14,2 hands tall, dark bay and had a 24 inch overreach with her hind legs over front leg imprints.Absolutely amazing mare. She was a hadbah enzahiyah, very elegant high quality mare.
Martin was a top horseman, a top rider, and produced horses which could be ridden. Gene Reichert showed most all his show horses to success.
Have a nice day and Happy Easter
Hansi
I have a video of an Interview that Martin Loeber gave at an Al Khamsa meeting (or party) quite a few years ago. He seemed to have very strong opinions and was very open with them. It was SO interesting to hear what he had to say about the various horses of those days, the bloodlines, etc. Priceless. People who are this open today are threatened with lawsuits! He was a man who certainly bred what he wanted and what he liked... with little regard to titles/categories/designations and other such criteria.
CathyL
CathyL
HI Cathy
yes, that was "Martin". I admired and respected him for his openess and opinions. He was an excellent horseman, rider and most certainly breeder.
He bred beautiful and functional Arabian horses.
I felt very bad, when he sold his horses, I should say his son Paul did, after Martin passed away. they also had a beautiful farm here in Florida. I think some of his last good and aged mares are with Gene Reichard in Michigan/Ohio? where he a runs a training program for the handicapped children/adults. I believe one of his students posted here on the forum a while ago.
dont ever worry about lawsuits. This is a free country and anybody can express their opinions. And those who threaten, usually are anyway often insecure and think they can scare others off in my opinion.
Have a nice day
Hansi
yes, that was "Martin". I admired and respected him for his openess and opinions. He was an excellent horseman, rider and most certainly breeder.
He bred beautiful and functional Arabian horses.
I felt very bad, when he sold his horses, I should say his son Paul did, after Martin passed away. they also had a beautiful farm here in Florida. I think some of his last good and aged mares are with Gene Reichard in Michigan/Ohio? where he a runs a training program for the handicapped children/adults. I believe one of his students posted here on the forum a while ago.
dont ever worry about lawsuits. This is a free country and anybody can express their opinions. And those who threaten, usually are anyway often insecure and think they can scare others off in my opinion.
Have a nice day
Hansi
Howdy,
Hansi has talked about Martin Loeber and the impact of *Ramses Fayek and the straight Egyptian horses of the Ramses herd. I think however mention needs to be made of *Sanacht (Hadban Enzahi x Hathor by Halef) one of the ten most prolific mares of the 20th century. Not to steal *Ramses Fayek's 'thunder' but *Sanacht was the first horse that came to mind when the topic of Plum Grove Arabians graced the forum and is the mare line behind every *Ramses Fayek offspring that won at the national halter level.
Imported by Paul and the late Sandi Loeber in 1963, *Sanacht was the 'second choice' when her full sister fell ill and was unable to be shipped. They saw her for the first time here in the US as a 2 year old and the legend of *Sanacht began. Sired by the straight Egyptian Marbach sire, Hadban Enzahi (Nazeer x Kamla by Sheikh El Arab) and out of the Polish/Egyptian cross Hathor (Halef x Jatta by Jasir), *Sanacht produced a lifetime total of 15 foals of which 12 are champions. 14 of the 15 foals also bred on with three of *Sanacht's daughters gracing the same illustrious Aristocrat Mares list, a record I believe. Following are her offspring and their high lights:
Amurath Kalahari, 1964 grey mare by Fadi (Fadjur x Saki by Ferseyn). A halter champion and regional top five mare, she produced five champions from a total of 14 foals. Her two nationals winners included Amurath Isis, US and Canadian Top Ten Mare and her full brother Amurath Freedom, a US Top Ten Futurity stallion. Both sired by *Ramses Fayek. Amurath Kalahari is also an Aristocrat Mare.
Amurath Kasari, 1965 grey mare by Fadi. A futurity champion and dam of 15 foals. Three of these were champions. She was sold from Plum Grove as a filly.
Amurath Kashmira, 1966 grey mare by Fadi and the leading producing *Sanacht daughter. She produced a lifetime total of 15 foals with 9 of them being champions, including 4 nationals winners. She produced 3 nationals winners by *Ramses Fayek; Amurath Bandelero, US National Champion and Canadian Reserve National Champion Stallion, Amurath Borodino, US and Canadian Top Ten Stallion and Amurath Bali, US National Champion Futurity mare. Her son by *Czortan, Amurath Veronezh, was a US Top Ten Futurity Stallion and her daughter by *Bask, Amurath Basksheba, produced the US National Champion Futurity Mare, Amurath Beguile by *Ramses Fayek. Amurath Basksheba, an Aristocrat Mare, also produced the Aristocrat Mare and dam of nine champions, Amurath Czorteba, by *Czortan who is owned by the Eider-Orley's of Scottsdale.
Amurath Czarina, 1967 grey mare by *Czortan (Czort x *Mortissa by Trypolis). A regional top five halter mare and champion, she is listed as an Aristocrat Mare also and is the dam of 4 champions and her daughter Amurath Finlandia (by *Fol Yasmeen) produced the US National Champion Futurity Mare and US and Canadian Top Ten Mare, PR Morisa.
Amurath Kashmir, 1968 grey stallion by *Czortan who was sold as a yearling and sired a small number of foals.
Amurath Chamonix, 1969 grey mare by *Czortan. Chamonix was sold as a relatively young mare and was a reserve junior champion as a youngster. Her best known foal is the champion producer, Amurath Afrika, by *Ramses Fayek.
Amurath Bandeira, 1971 grey mare by *Bask. Bandeira was by far *Sanachts most successful offspring shown and was US National Champion Futurity Mare, US Reserve National Champion Mare and several times US and Canadian Top Ten Mare in addition. She was a stunning beauty and the pride of Plum Grove Farm, along with her dam. She is an Aristocrat Mare with five champions out of 12 foals, including the US Top Ten Futurity Stallion, Amurath Fire Hawk (by *Ramses Fayek) and the US and Canadian Top Ten Stallion, Amurath Silverwing, by Rohara Samurai (*GG Samir).
Amurath Chandar, 1973 grey stallion by *Ramses Fayek. A park horse champion, Chandar sired only 9 foals before an untimely death.
Amurath Selari, 1974 grey mare by *Ramses Fayek. A halter champion, Selari produced the US and Canadian Top Ten Stallion, Minotaur, by *Menes. Selari's daughter, Amurath Saratoga (by Amurath Baikal, thus double *Sanacht), is the mare line behind the popular *Lumiar Amadeus (by RSD Dark Victory), a US and Canadian Top Ten Stallion.
Amurath Bakonur, 1975 grey stallion by *Bask. A formal driving champion, Bakonur is also the sire of several champion and two national top tens in halter.
Amurath Baikal, 1977 grey stallion by *Bask. *Sanacht's most successful son, Baikal was a herd sire at Plum Grove for many years as well as being US Reserve National Champion Futurity Stallion and a multiple regional halter winner. He sired a number of champions, including the great English Pleasure gelding, JK Jedi. Amurath Baikal is alive and well and standing in Canada today.
Amurath Spellbound, 1979 grey stallion by Ramses Ibn Fayek. Sold as a youngster, Spellbound only has six registered foals and has been used very sparingly as a breeding horse.
Amurath Sandpiper, 1980 grey mare by *Ramses Fayek. Was a halter champion as a young mare and has only produced two foals, a daughter by *Menes and a son by Amurath Icefire.
Amurath Santiago, 1982 grey mare by *Ramses Fayek. I believe this mare was a halter champion as a young mare also, she has also produced only two foals, one being a filly by *Czortan, Amurath Crystal.
Amurath Sandsprite, 1983 grey mare by *Ramses Fayek. *Sanacht's last daughter died as a five year old and left no registered offspring.
I hope somehow this was able to tell a little about the breadth and magnitude of *Sanacht's accomplishments in the US and how they are being bred on today. I believe there are still a half a dozen pensioner mares at the old Plum Grove facility in Illinois and the last I had heard, a couple of years ago, even Amurath Isis was still alive.
Jim Robbins
R-Farm
Hansi has talked about Martin Loeber and the impact of *Ramses Fayek and the straight Egyptian horses of the Ramses herd. I think however mention needs to be made of *Sanacht (Hadban Enzahi x Hathor by Halef) one of the ten most prolific mares of the 20th century. Not to steal *Ramses Fayek's 'thunder' but *Sanacht was the first horse that came to mind when the topic of Plum Grove Arabians graced the forum and is the mare line behind every *Ramses Fayek offspring that won at the national halter level.
Imported by Paul and the late Sandi Loeber in 1963, *Sanacht was the 'second choice' when her full sister fell ill and was unable to be shipped. They saw her for the first time here in the US as a 2 year old and the legend of *Sanacht began. Sired by the straight Egyptian Marbach sire, Hadban Enzahi (Nazeer x Kamla by Sheikh El Arab) and out of the Polish/Egyptian cross Hathor (Halef x Jatta by Jasir), *Sanacht produced a lifetime total of 15 foals of which 12 are champions. 14 of the 15 foals also bred on with three of *Sanacht's daughters gracing the same illustrious Aristocrat Mares list, a record I believe. Following are her offspring and their high lights:
Amurath Kalahari, 1964 grey mare by Fadi (Fadjur x Saki by Ferseyn). A halter champion and regional top five mare, she produced five champions from a total of 14 foals. Her two nationals winners included Amurath Isis, US and Canadian Top Ten Mare and her full brother Amurath Freedom, a US Top Ten Futurity stallion. Both sired by *Ramses Fayek. Amurath Kalahari is also an Aristocrat Mare.
Amurath Kasari, 1965 grey mare by Fadi. A futurity champion and dam of 15 foals. Three of these were champions. She was sold from Plum Grove as a filly.
Amurath Kashmira, 1966 grey mare by Fadi and the leading producing *Sanacht daughter. She produced a lifetime total of 15 foals with 9 of them being champions, including 4 nationals winners. She produced 3 nationals winners by *Ramses Fayek; Amurath Bandelero, US National Champion and Canadian Reserve National Champion Stallion, Amurath Borodino, US and Canadian Top Ten Stallion and Amurath Bali, US National Champion Futurity mare. Her son by *Czortan, Amurath Veronezh, was a US Top Ten Futurity Stallion and her daughter by *Bask, Amurath Basksheba, produced the US National Champion Futurity Mare, Amurath Beguile by *Ramses Fayek. Amurath Basksheba, an Aristocrat Mare, also produced the Aristocrat Mare and dam of nine champions, Amurath Czorteba, by *Czortan who is owned by the Eider-Orley's of Scottsdale.
Amurath Czarina, 1967 grey mare by *Czortan (Czort x *Mortissa by Trypolis). A regional top five halter mare and champion, she is listed as an Aristocrat Mare also and is the dam of 4 champions and her daughter Amurath Finlandia (by *Fol Yasmeen) produced the US National Champion Futurity Mare and US and Canadian Top Ten Mare, PR Morisa.
Amurath Kashmir, 1968 grey stallion by *Czortan who was sold as a yearling and sired a small number of foals.
Amurath Chamonix, 1969 grey mare by *Czortan. Chamonix was sold as a relatively young mare and was a reserve junior champion as a youngster. Her best known foal is the champion producer, Amurath Afrika, by *Ramses Fayek.
Amurath Bandeira, 1971 grey mare by *Bask. Bandeira was by far *Sanachts most successful offspring shown and was US National Champion Futurity Mare, US Reserve National Champion Mare and several times US and Canadian Top Ten Mare in addition. She was a stunning beauty and the pride of Plum Grove Farm, along with her dam. She is an Aristocrat Mare with five champions out of 12 foals, including the US Top Ten Futurity Stallion, Amurath Fire Hawk (by *Ramses Fayek) and the US and Canadian Top Ten Stallion, Amurath Silverwing, by Rohara Samurai (*GG Samir).
Amurath Chandar, 1973 grey stallion by *Ramses Fayek. A park horse champion, Chandar sired only 9 foals before an untimely death.
Amurath Selari, 1974 grey mare by *Ramses Fayek. A halter champion, Selari produced the US and Canadian Top Ten Stallion, Minotaur, by *Menes. Selari's daughter, Amurath Saratoga (by Amurath Baikal, thus double *Sanacht), is the mare line behind the popular *Lumiar Amadeus (by RSD Dark Victory), a US and Canadian Top Ten Stallion.
Amurath Bakonur, 1975 grey stallion by *Bask. A formal driving champion, Bakonur is also the sire of several champion and two national top tens in halter.
Amurath Baikal, 1977 grey stallion by *Bask. *Sanacht's most successful son, Baikal was a herd sire at Plum Grove for many years as well as being US Reserve National Champion Futurity Stallion and a multiple regional halter winner. He sired a number of champions, including the great English Pleasure gelding, JK Jedi. Amurath Baikal is alive and well and standing in Canada today.
Amurath Spellbound, 1979 grey stallion by Ramses Ibn Fayek. Sold as a youngster, Spellbound only has six registered foals and has been used very sparingly as a breeding horse.
Amurath Sandpiper, 1980 grey mare by *Ramses Fayek. Was a halter champion as a young mare and has only produced two foals, a daughter by *Menes and a son by Amurath Icefire.
Amurath Santiago, 1982 grey mare by *Ramses Fayek. I believe this mare was a halter champion as a young mare also, she has also produced only two foals, one being a filly by *Czortan, Amurath Crystal.
Amurath Sandsprite, 1983 grey mare by *Ramses Fayek. *Sanacht's last daughter died as a five year old and left no registered offspring.
I hope somehow this was able to tell a little about the breadth and magnitude of *Sanacht's accomplishments in the US and how they are being bred on today. I believe there are still a half a dozen pensioner mares at the old Plum Grove facility in Illinois and the last I had heard, a couple of years ago, even Amurath Isis was still alive.
Jim Robbins
R-Farm
Yes Jim, you are so correct. Martin had a keen eye and was a perfectionist. Sanacht indeed has to be considered as one of the greatest old Matriaches of our breed. I always liked what she produced.
Have a nice day
hansi
Have a nice day
hansi
Jim mentioned Amurath Beguile. I noticed that she is the dam of 2003 Australian Champion Mare, Mulawa Behold.
BUMP...Ramses Fayek
self edit
Baikal has been dead for at least a year but his son Earl Grey is an heir to the Baikal dynasty at Rideaufield Arabians in Canada.
We had A. Selari ans A. Isis at Aries when I worked there. They were two beautiful mares!!!
A. Isis produced Mallorca ( by *Menes) who went on to produce excellant horses, also, including Miss Psyche. Mallorca was one of the BEST moving *menes daughters, and has a tremendously beautiful face! She was exported to Germany.
A. Isis produced Mallorca ( by *Menes) who went on to produce excellant horses, also, including Miss Psyche. Mallorca was one of the BEST moving *menes daughters, and has a tremendously beautiful face! She was exported to Germany.
We had A. Selari and A. Isis at Aries when I worked there. They were two beautiful mares!!!
A. Isis produced Mallorca ( by *Menes) who went on to produce excellant horses, also, including Miss Psyche. Mallorca was one of the BEST moving *menes daughters, and has a tremendously beautiful face! She was exported to Germany.
A. Isis produced Mallorca ( by *Menes) who went on to produce excellant horses, also, including Miss Psyche. Mallorca was one of the BEST moving *menes daughters, and has a tremendously beautiful face! She was exported to Germany.
Plumgrove owned the mare Lainy Shahzana (Ansata Shah Zam X Elainyah by *Aramus). She was a US Nat'l TT Futurity filly. This mare was a fabulous producer. Her daughter Valmeira by Moudreiy was exported to France. This same daughter was bred to GH Venture by Bey Shah and produced the winning mare C Vals Venture.
Lainy Shahzana, for her last few foals was bred to the Plumgrove stallion Amurath Baikal (*Bask X *Sanacht).
This cross resulted in a gelding, whom is a multiple discipline Regional winner and showing to this day.... and two mares.
The first daughter produced is SS Heiress. Aptly named as to be the replacement for her illustrious dam. Heiress is the light in my life. She is the foundation mare for my herd. A daughter to two US Nat'l winning parents. A granddaughter to the most influential horses in the breed.
Heiress carries on the breedability of her granddam *Sanacht very evidently in her daughters by *Ecaho. Fillies carring the blood of two of the most incredible mares in modern day Arabians.....granddaughters to the great *Etruria and great granddaughters to the great *Sanacht.
May *Sanact live on through the generations....so far in three generations her influence is strong!
http://www.honeysucklerosenorth.com/mares04.html
Lainy Shahzana, for her last few foals was bred to the Plumgrove stallion Amurath Baikal (*Bask X *Sanacht).
This cross resulted in a gelding, whom is a multiple discipline Regional winner and showing to this day.... and two mares.
The first daughter produced is SS Heiress. Aptly named as to be the replacement for her illustrious dam. Heiress is the light in my life. She is the foundation mare for my herd. A daughter to two US Nat'l winning parents. A granddaughter to the most influential horses in the breed.
Heiress carries on the breedability of her granddam *Sanacht very evidently in her daughters by *Ecaho. Fillies carring the blood of two of the most incredible mares in modern day Arabians.....granddaughters to the great *Etruria and great granddaughters to the great *Sanacht.
May *Sanact live on through the generations....so far in three generations her influence is strong!
http://www.honeysucklerosenorth.com/mares04.html
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.